AGS Awards Nominations - Disappointment

Started by alkis21, Sun 13/03/2005 23:05:08

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DragonRose

Hmmm... that's a very good point, Snarky. I was thinking more along the lines of the "makes games but puts in no effort and has probably forgotten they made a game" crowd rather than the "Makes games but isn't active on the boards" crowd.
Sssshhhh!!! No sex please, we're British!!- Pumaman

Vince Twelve

You're right.  That shouldn't be desirable.

Perhaps offering year-round submissions would allow us to avoid this.  If a thread was open year round, only to be used only for submitting a game for AGS awards, the developer could submit his/her game at the same time of release (or maybe after a few weeks to see community reaction and allow some bug-fixing time).  Perhaps the panel could start early at dividing these games into 'no' and 'maybe' piles for later consideration...

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Mon 14/03/2005 02:05:13
    -Some developers may miss the note about needing to submit their games and some worthy games may be missed. [/b]
        Possible solution:
            -Allow year-round submissions

MrColossal

well year round submissions is a good idea, but as far as yahtzee not posting here, that doesn' t mean he can't either submit it or at least start posting here to announce his games.
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

SSH

Why do we need a thread for the submissions? We have the games database! It has a demo category already. Maybe it needs an hour game category too, but its perfectly capable of doing the job. If someone doesn't submit their game to the database then that's their own lookout. If we make it clear NOW that that is required for entry to AGS Awards then no-one can complain about last minute problems, becuas ethe games database is open all year.

And if someone ELSE wants to add Yahtzee's games to the database, let 'em
12

Kinoko

I think having to submit your game to the DB before it can be up for nomination is a good idea. It's nice and neat, not difficult at all and most people do it anyway so it wouldn't be out of the norm.

Radiant

Well, you could make a rule that people have to play a game before nominating it, but you can't really double-check or enforce that. Maybe a better rule would be that you can only nominate a game in three categories max - that'd force people to think of other games to nominate in other categories. And I believe nominations should be discounted if they don't make sense (i.e. 'best graphics' award for a game like Stick Man, or 'best documentation' for a game that in fact has none).

Vince Twelve

I think one of the reasons for having a thread for submissions is, as DragonRose said, that each game is submitted only for the categories in which it excels.  This can help the panel when making their decisions and can also help some of those usually shoved aside games get the recognition they deserve in the areas that they do excel.  Take for example a hypothetical game that has crap graphics, no story, and some average gameplay, but has the coolest and most informative manual ever.  Normally, this game would be completely ignored, but if there were a list of specific games submitted for each category, this game would be considered entirely based upon the merits of it's manual, and not the rest of the game.  Which, I believe is how it should be.

Of course then we're encroaching upon the "bogged down by rules" area that DG was warning about.

SSH

Maybe a commitee could split all games between them and each committee members is trusted to put any game with merit in a category into a Long List for each category. Then the nom process gets joe public to shorten the long list to a short list and then final vote? I believe the booker prize works somewhat like this
12

Potch

Another problem may be that there  could be people that don't understand all of the categories.  Maybe somone should add an explanation on each question, so people understand exactly what they are voting for.  There are people out there that play the games and vote, but they don't create games.  They may not understand what scripting or documentation or even graphics mean.  They may not understand the difference between graphics and animation.  That could be why some games get nominated in categories that don't make any sense.  I for one have never created a game.  I wrote the dialogue for a chapter once, but that's about it.  I know there were one or two things that I wasn't sure about when I voted. 

Another thing that might be good is to do the awards more than once a year.  I don't know about you guys, but when I have to vote in March for a game that I played in January the year before... it's hard to remember much.  I play so many of the games, that a lot of times, they tend to blend together.  I don't know, just a thought.
The hardest thing in this world... is to live in it. (Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy Summers in "The Gift")

Vel

Well alkis, after a quick check, of 96 posts on this forum, more than 90 are related to "Other worlds". I think it's pretty much the same on other adventure forums. You see, people like Mills for example do pimp their game often, but this is not the ONLY thing they do, and this is why I am getting more or less annoyed. And hats off to SSH, who didn't complain there was a best demo category(not irony), although "Awakening of the sphinx" more than deserved the award in my humble opinion. And the fact that JA+ said good stuff about it means nothing than one person(concidence, or not, of your country) liked your game.
To tell you the truth, I haven't even played your game, for no other reason than the excessive, in my opinion, promoting.
A good way to promote your game is to put a small banner with a link in your signature, like many people do. But that'd mean posting for something else than your game, which seems pretty uncommon for you.

Give it a thought.

Potch

Since some people are disappointed about the Demo category... and Pesty, I get your point about how a lot of Demos never get finished.... how about maybe doing a category like... "What was the best demo of a game that is now complete?"  or something.  That way everybody is happy.  Just a thought. 
The hardest thing in this world... is to live in it. (Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy Summers in "The Gift")

Vel

The number of games which demos are released in the same year as the full game is dangerously low.

Helm

I remember liking Alki's game when I played a portion of it a long time ago. I can't comment on the quality of the full game, however. I do not think he has 'pimped' his game too much, (I looked through his posts) and I do not think that because he is not interested in partaking fully in all aspects of this forum, and only posts about his game (in relevant threads) anyone should preemptively not play his game.
WINTERKILL

Potch

I agree.  So what if he pimps his game.  It was a fantastic game.  I don't blame him for pimping it.  You're missing out by not playing it.
The hardest thing in this world... is to live in it. (Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy Summers in "The Gift")

Problem

I have to agree with Vel. I found his "advertising" very annoying, this thread is the best example. Or some post about the score dropping to 90% etc., who wants to know about that?
Don't get me wrong, I liked the game very much. But I think it doesn't deserve that many awards. The only one I can think of is "best story", and I expected it to be nominated for this award.
But think of the other awards. Best graphics? Animation? Music? Best Gameplay, with some annoying pixelhunting? - there were better games.
"Best Game", maybe. But there is a very strong competition. I don't think there are many categories where this game stands out. It has a good story and lots of immersion, but I think it is highly overrated in some of the reviews. That doesn't mean the game isn't good.  It is very good. But it's not the new Monkey Island.
Sometimes I really got the impression that he made the game only because of the reviews and awards. That's a strange attitude.

MrColossal

Again, what constant "advertising" are you people talking about?

I talked with vel in #ags and the majority of Alkis' posts were in the hints and tips forum not just random posts in random threads saying "Play my game!"

And then he mentions *in his own thread* that the score is dropping, and you have a problem with that?

Problem, have you made a game yet? Do you know what it's like to spend a long long time on a game and then finally get it done? Maybe he's very proud of his game and is 1: Shocked that people didn't vote for it more because he loves it and 2: Very proud that his game has gotten the good press that it has. Being proud that people are giving you good reviews doesn't mean that he only made it for the reviews and awards. I think your outlook is pretty awkward and rude.

Please, if I'm missing something, tell me where all this constant advertising has ruined your view of Alkis, where he's inundated the boards with requests for people to play his game. I just don't see it when I do a search on these forums, he sticks to his own threads and is proud of his game, how dare he!
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

Andail

It's pretty brave to start a thread like this, since it's bound to stir up at least some annoyment. I think it's pretty cool to vent some frustration...

On the other hand, there's nothing really to complain about...if people like the game, they'll vote for it, if they like another game better, they'll vote for that one instead. Nobody has been treated unfairly, nobody did anything wrong.

Then again, I'm all for the idea of having a comittée to select the nominations, a group of dedicated people who can review the games, give them a fair judgement and place them in a suitable category.
As I mentioned in the sticky thread, people have never been very good at voting here, sadly.

Dave Gilbert

#57
What is wrong with "pimping" your games?  It's called marketing, people.  Don't underestimate its power.  From now on, I'm going to talk about my games non stop.  In addition, I plan to completely sell out and offer a large line of "Two of a Kind" merchandise.  Why? Because I KNOW the world desperately needs a Tiffany Walters coffee mug or a Doctor Love pillowcase.  You know you want one.

Seriously though.  Alkis, I've always admired your success. .  Your game has achieved more mainstream recognition than most AGS games currently available.  I would hardly call that a disappointment.  Be proud.  Don't let this one event rain on your parade.   

Pelican

Quote from: DragonRose on Tue 15/03/2005 05:55:11
I don't think anyone has time to play 50% of the games that come out in a year. There are just too many.

Errr... I did. But then I am a dossy student.Ã,  ;D

Kinoko

Well, I for one didn't notice the advertising of Other Worlds because I never even really noticed the game existed before this thread started up. I don't know why, it just happened that way.

I haven't finished the game, but it's pretty cool so far. As a result of this thread, I had a look at your 'completed game' thread to see what people were talking about.

First of all - 3.5 years? Holy hell, if I could stay on a project for that long the universe itself would end. My definite er... "props" to you for that one, I'm impressed. Having worked on such a long game for such a long time, you're fully entitled to 'pimp' your work, I did it plenty with my tiny-in-comparison Cirque. I was REALLY happy it was out and I was even happier to be getting good feedback.

I must say though, and I'm sure you're over it now because it's been a few months, one big mistake you can make that will be the end of you is putting too much emphasis on scores, and percentages, and reveiwer comments. That little percentage thing in the game's profile - just forget about it, don't look! You sort of have to take these things in your stride, or with a grain of salt... I don't know which phrase I mean. Either way, don't take them too seriously because you'll start spending all day looking at them and then you'll get suicidal when a score drops or isn't as high as you expected.

I think you have to look at the AGS Awards that way too. Admittedly, my game got nominated for more things that I would expect. Am I gonna complain about it? Nosiree! ^_^ It's great. At the same time, I wouldn't mind if it didn't get nominated for anything. I'd be a bit disappointed, sure, but ... 1. It's just not that big of a deal. 2. There were a LOT of excellent, quality games that came out in 2004. Noone can deny that. Even if you think yours is better, and you're entitled to, you have to understand that your opinion is biased. I personally liked the Apprentice 2 and 7 Days more than anything else this year (though having recently playing JP and Cosmo... wow!) and I know a lot of people wouldn't agree with me. That's just the way I see it. People look for different things in what makes a game worthy of an award. Even if they personally enjoyed a particular game more than the one they nominated, they may be nominating what game they think is more public-ly appreciated, or the one with the LOOK of a good game, regardless of lacking in story.

I'm personally guilty of this, I just adore a professional looking game, which is partly why Apprentice and 7 Days bowled me over. When I forget I'm playing a game made by an amateur, I -really- get a respect for it and that's part of what goes into my decision making for best games.

I've sort of forgotten what my point was here, but er... well, take it like a man, I guess :P (in a nice way). You just have to suck these things up, because nothing good will come of voicing complaint. I know it sounds harsh, but the fact just remains that people tend not to like sore losers (again, NOT calling you a loser here, it's an expression).  Even though I think your game (so far) is great and impressive, I actually did roll my eyes when I first saw this thread, to the tune of "Oh well, looks like SOMEONE'S sour about the nominations". Nothing specific to you, but I bet I'm not the only one, is my point. I just think in times of disappointment like this, it's best to stay quiet and preserve some dignity - or rather, "coolness".

I think this post sounded pretty harsh, I'm sorry for that.

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