Hauntings Of Mystery Manor

Started by Ghostlady, Sun 19/06/2005 00:28:09

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Kweepa

Quote from: Candle on Sat 09/07/2005 04:18:55
If you look at any walmart when a game comes out you will see it on the shelf for so many days
After that time they start to move in new games and they will start moving the older games down on the shelfs .
Most game companys know if they don't make their money in the first x amout of days they will call it a loss .

That's Walmart. If you have your own online store you can obviously afford to keep the product on sale for as long as you want.
(Anyway, games generally have a longer shelf-life than "X" days. Typically it'll be months, or years for top titles. And then it goes budget. But that's not relevant here.)
If you're determined to be negative, go ahead. I'm not quite sure why.
Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

Candle

No I'm not trying to be negative . just having a discussion here .
I hope she does well .

Mr Jake

I'd like my name in the hat please.
I am at a financial ends right now :(

I didn't relise music was so expensive, I suppose it was worth it if it ads so much to the game.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

#43
I do apologize, if you created it yourself. But:

1 - I had commented on it earlier. Look at the first page of posts. I got no response, so I was left to assume what I would.

2 - http://radio-canada.ca/branche/v2/classi/images/phant-ecran-grand.jpg <-- That is from Phantasmagoria. Compare it to the first screenie on the left and second from the top on the FFC review and tell me how I, or anyone, could possibly not have related it. If you'd answered to my first post this wouldn't have been happening now, now would it?

3 - Then don't take me seriously. But for your information, that "fucking" is not a gratuitous word - that's a quote from a film, and I chose to add it to my sig because it's used in a time and place and context that I not only approve of, I cheer at. So don't take things at face value. And btw, that's waaay to selective judging. What about my avatar or the rest of my sig? Wait, I know - what about my actual POST? How about taking that seriously? There's no swearing in that.

4 - I still don't get why that logic is wrong, which was the point of my post, not the "fucking" or the screenie - the *logic*.

EDIT - Indeed, now that I compare those two side-by-side, it does not look painted over at all. However, it still looks like exactly the same room, redrawn. I say again, anyone who has played Phantasmagoria makes the connection... and instead of ignoring my first post, you should have told me, there and then, that it's just a coincidence.

There, I'm done.
Reach for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

Kneel. Now.

Never throw chicken at a Leprechaun.

ildu

Here they are both of em':

http://fourfatchicks.com/Reviews/Mystery_Manor/0010.JPG
http://radio-canada.ca/branche/v2/classi/images/phant-ecran-grand.jpg

And I must say the resemblence is uncanny. The perspective in the mystery manor screenie is totally screwed, though.

Kweepa

Hey, it IS a paint over! >:(
Sorry I doubted you Rui.
Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

Esseb

#46
Quote from: Candle on Sat 09/07/2005 05:05:31
Quote from: Esseb on Sat 09/07/2005 05:00:29
Yes, I can easily imagine most people who'd consider paying $15 for an indie game would know where to illegally aquire games. Especially the esoteric sort which is only sold online to a limited audience. My bookmarks are brimming with those.
Bright .. geeee why didn't I think of it ..

What? My point was that it is extremely hard to find illegally available downloads for indie games even for someone who knows where to look, let alone for what I believe is the target audience for this game: People who are not constantly upgrading their computer so they can play the latest FPS game.

Are you're trying to inform me that you had already thought of this before making your post, or are you saying you hadn't thought of it?

Ashen

#47
Esseb:
If you read your post without sarcasm (as I did), and Candle's reply with it, it makes more sense - you seem to be saying the same as he'd said in an earlier post.

That's my reading anyway, and if so I agree with Candle - if a game is made available for download (even at a price), there's nothing (besides natural honesty) to stop the downloader turning around and making it available, for free, on bittorrent/eMule/fileshare software of choice. Granted, the "target audience" in this case may be less likely to do so, and so yes indie games would be harder to find, but there's still nothing stopping them should they choose to.
EDIT1: I don't know how Hauntings Of Mystery Manor is set up, I just meant that downloads are specificly packaged for easy transfer, while a cd is slightly more awkward. (Although that probably doesn't apply to AGS games as much.)

For the record (and to get vaguely on topic), if the download-able version was handled slightly differently (I don't like PayPal), I would be willing to pay for this game.
EDIT2: Not that I can think of an alternative to PayPal, it's just that I've never been able to get the thing to work, and I'm always paranoid that I'll be charged twice for a transaction I didn't end up making. I'm also a little wary of the "e-mail me, and I'll get in touch with details" part, but again can't think of a practical alternative. And - as I said - I would really like a copy of this game. Don't take the download option away just yet, please - I might overcome my PayPal-phobia, but I'm not likely to pay for shipping. (Unless you put my name in the hat, of course ;))
I know what you're thinking ... Don't think that.

Ghostlady

This was my first game and I am trying to take things objectively.Ã,  I'm sure I made mistakes and would do things differently the next time around. I admit I was upset when Rui said the image was painted over.Ã,  It was not.Ã,  It was designed to look like the room because I really liked the look of the room but it was not painted over.Ã,  There are a lot of rooms at the Manor and it seemed this one was being picked on.Ã,  Sorry Rui, but your post implied that people would be paying $15.00 for a game that had used screens from other games where there is just this one that was designed after one.Ã,  That is the way I took it.Ã, 

I offered the download mostly for International buyers, so they wouldn't have to pay the shipping.Ã,  It seems they want the CD mostly so I may be taking the download option off.Ã,  As far as stealing files, what is the difference if you have the files on a CD or you downloaded them?Ã,  Same files.Ã,  I don't think there is much you can do to stop that.

I used the PayPal credit processor, and you don't have to be a PalPal customer, because it was so easy to set up and tends to be the one that is most popular because so many people have PayPal accounts.Ã,  If anyone can offer suggestions of a better way to go, I'd be happy to listen.
My Games:

Hauntings Of Mystery Manor
Intrigue At Oakhaven Plantation
Haunting at Cliffhouse

Esseb

Not to discredit Ghostlady, I was merely making the observation that her game is no Quake IV. I would be quite surprised if she loses even one sale due to piracy.

That said, I'm done hijacking this thread and whatever argument I may have gotten myself into isn't worth continuing. Good luck with your game, Ghostlady. I hope you end up with a nice profit at the end of it all.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

I'd just like to point out that the only thing I implied with my post was that I would not pay $15 dollars for the game, for the three reasons I stated.
Reach for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

Kneel. Now.

Never throw chicken at a Leprechaun.

Vince Twelve

Ghostlady, the game looks great.  I'm hoping that you don't, as you implied, take down the download option.  As soon as I'm done pouring all my freetime into the One Room One Week competition, I'm planning on paying for the download.

I think we should all be supportive of efforts like this.  Especially within our community.  Because one successful commercial AGS could lead to more... possibly one that you are attached to.  I wish you all the best.  I'd like to try to release a commercial game at some point in the future be it AGS or some other engine and any success you can achieve gives me hope.

lakerz

I've heard only positive things so far about this game.  So kudos to you Ghostlady!  I'd be interested in trying out a copy of the game, so please add my name to the list as well.  8)

Kinoko

I just want to add that I'm with Rui on this. Good luck to you and your game, I'm sure it's great but I wouldn't pay for it and I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. It's economics. I don't have a problem with you charging for it either. If you can charge for it and make money, then obviously it worked for you! At the same time, and I know I've said this many times before and no disrespect to you Vince because you know I love you ^_-, but I don't agree with the argument that people should 'support' an industry. It's like sympathy money (to the people getting it, it makes little difference). I think if you see a game and you say to yourself honestly, "Heck, I want to buy that there game" then that's great. If you go, "Hmm, well I'm on the fence about buying it but hey, I want the industry to grow", even though you're perfectly entitled to do so, I think it's a terrible reason. The game should be good enough for you to want to pay money for it based on it's own merits. If not, then you shouldn't buy it. I mean, if we all went around buying games based on that reasoning, it's going to lessen the motivation to push ourselves in creating games of true quality.

I'm only willing to pay for a game that, aside for all the usual reasons of having a great story and arousing my interests, is comprable to a commercial game. I don't mean modern commercial games necessarilly, but something I could imagine at some stage could have been on shelves. Something I don't look at and say, "This is an independant adventure game". If I play the game and don't even THINK about whether it's independant or not, that's a game I'd (possibly) be willing to pay for... and I have. I forked over a whopping $6 to Yahtzee and I've never regretted it because when I played 5 Days when it first came out, I was utterly impressed with it's over-all professionalism (on top of the fact that I just loved it for story and everything else).

To get back to the game in question, like Rui, I wouldn't buy it even if it were perfect in every other way based on the fact that it didn't have a custom GUI because I wouldn't be able to get past seeing an amateur game. The game wouldn't seem complete, and I'd feel ripped off that I was missing out on that little bit of extra effort.

This is me. Other people don't think that way and it's fine but my point is that I just don't agree with the fact that people should feel obligated to buy a game in order to "support the industry" (and I'm not speaking to on that one Vince, I know you didn't mean that but lots of people do).

I also have to say, regardless of whether it's a paint over or not, those two screens are INCREDIBLY similar. Coincidences do happen though, and we can all be influenced by past games we've played unconciously.

Vince Twelve

Excellent points, Kinoko.  I wasn't saying that we should support the independent games "industry" (if you can call it that).  I was more in support of a valiant and concerted effort, which is what I see here.  If you slapped a price tag on a P3N15 award winner, I certainly wouldn't be lining up to buy.

Also, by "support" I don't mean "buy" necessarily.  Just support.  "Nice job.  Good luck."  Remember, we aren't (or shouldn't be) the target market here.  We have plenty of free games that come out to satisfy us.  There are those out there who will easily pay $15 bucks for a product like this.  From us, yes, she will get some "sympathy money" (every little bit helps) but it's from those that read the positive reviews, or hear from word of mouth, and don't know or don't care about the underground free adventure games that flow here like water, that will help her recoup her losses.

So, "Nice job. Good luck."  Don't be angry because the game isn't targetted at you. (And I'm not specifically speaking at anyone here, so don't get up in arms).

The question of quality IS an important one, however.  Being a commercial game definitely  requires a bit more attention to quality, and I would agree that the look of the GUI is a major mark against it.  But what I'm looking for is gameplay and story.  And from the reviews, they seem to be all in line.

If the two strikes against this game are length and the GUI (and on painted-over fireplace... THREE!  THREE STRIKES! ...oh bugger, I'll come in again), then it has a lot more going for it than some of the $20 budget priced games out there (not that two wrongs make a right, or anything).

Personally (and this is part of what makes me, and some of the rest of us, more in line with the target market), I pay 16 bucks for a movie ticket (stupid expensive Japan) and more for refreshments for 2 hours of entertainment and thirty minutes of ads.  I'll gladly pay $15 for five hours of fun.  I'd call it a fair trade.  If you wouldn't, "Nice job.  Good luck."

Ghostlady

#55
Game Drawing:

Barbarian
Hotspot
Ashen
Rui
Lakerz
Potch
Marlamoe
Alk3Catch22
dg

If I missed anyone, please let me know.Ã,  I'll add to this post if anyone else is interested and I'll give it about a week.Ã,  Rui, I put you on the list since we started off on the wrong foot and I apologize if I got a little testy.

Note:Ã,  I am not removing the download option for awhile.Ã,  It has actually picked up in the last couple days.
My Games:

Hauntings Of Mystery Manor
Intrigue At Oakhaven Plantation
Haunting at Cliffhouse

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

Aww, so sweet. :) No sarcasm, either. That's an attitude that caught me by surprise. And I have to apologize by the rough wording in my posts - I can't not apologize to anyone who'd do a thing like that.

Like I said, for those reasons I would not by the game. What I HAVEN'T said is that I quite admire AGS games that go commercial, and I wish everyone the best of luck in said endeavor. Obviously, someone who went through all the work you did, paid for the music and whatnot like you did, and invested so much, deserves all the praise she can get (as well as some unavoidable less savory comments from people like yours truly here - pity that one can't please everyone...). Good to know that you've already gotten half your money back - I do hope you make it all and then earn some. Honest.
Reach for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

Kneel. Now.

Never throw chicken at a Leprechaun.

Snarky

Quote from: Candle on Sat 09/07/2005 04:18:55
If you look at any walmart when a game comes out you will see it on the shelf for so many days
After that time they start to move in new games and they will start moving the older games down on the shelfs .
Most game companys know if they don't make their money in the first x amout of days they will call it a loss .

The reason WalMart moves it off the shelves isn't that the game won't sell any more copies. It's that other games will sell MORE copies, and therefore they'll get a better return on the shelf space (in the retailing world, profit is measured in $ per day per square foot). This is one of the main reasons why publishers tend to write off games after X number of days: they simply won't be available in many stores any more.

HOWEVER, adventure games have much longer shelf lives than most computer and video games. For instance, The Longest Journey (1999) is still available in most stores with a decent computer game section. Maybe not WalMart (I wouldn't know, I avoid the place like the plague), but in places like CompUSA, Best Buy and EB. This is probably because the adventure-buying crowd doesn't care very much about cutting-edge features and pushing their system to the limit. Anyway, it does mean that an adventure game can turn a profit after a much longer time than you would expect.

Of course, for a game that is only sold over the net, shelf space doesn't matter, and you may see a much greater longevity.Ã,  The important thing would probably be to keep up its profile: submit it to various web sites for review (or just bug them about it) at different times. Offer a "deluxe edition" after six months. Arrange a raffle on the AGS Forums where you give away a copy.Ã,  ;)

QuoteI don't see this game making the $3000 sorry .Ã,  Just my option ..
Once the game is downloaded or sold to someone it is only matter of time when it will be able to download for everyone . if they know where to look .

I rather hope that the audience for an indie game like this would not want to screw somebody who's put up the money themselves to make a small game. If you want to play indie adventure games for free, there are plenty that are available free of charge on this website.

Quote from: Kinoko on Sun 10/07/2005 07:14:51
I just want to add that I'm with Rui on this. Good luck to you and your game, I'm sure it's great but I wouldn't pay for it and I don't think anyone should have a problem with that. It's economics. I don't have a problem with you charging for it either. If you can charge for it and make money, then obviously it worked for you!

Since I spoke out upthread against someone "refusing" to pay for an indie game, maybe I should clarify that of course I don't think anyone's obliged to buy it just because it's an indie game. If you look at it and don't think it would be worth the money for you, don't buy it. But if you look at it, think it looks pretty good, and you'd probably get as much enjoyment out of it as of anything else you might spend $15 on, and you can afford it, I absolutely think you should go ahead and buy it, regardless of the fact that there are other, comparable games available for free.

QuoteAt the same time, and I know I've said this many times before and no disrespect to you Vince because you know I love you ^_-, but I don't agree with the argument that people should 'support' an industry. It's like sympathy money (to the people getting it, it makes little difference). I think if you see a game and you say to yourself honestly, "Heck, I want to buy that there game" then that's great. If you go, "Hmm, well I'm on the fence about buying it but hey, I want the industry to grow", even though you're perfectly entitled to do so, I think it's a terrible reason. The game should be good enough for you to want to pay money for it based on it's own merits. If not, then you shouldn't buy it. I mean, if we all went around buying games based on that reasoning, it's going to lessen the motivation to push ourselves in creating games of true quality.

Personally, I'm more inclined to pay money for an indie adventure than I would be for something of comparable entertainment value, because I see it as partly a donation, as well. I wouldn't call it "pity money," though. I would compare it to giving money to a political party or organization for a special cause (like an environmental group). You give it because you want to help them achieve their goal, since you share it.

Nor does this mean I'll pay money for any old crap just to "support the cause." There are a couple of for-money indie adventures that I decided not to buy because they didn't look like they'd appeal to me.

The question of whether this kind of subsidy is good for the "industry" is somewhat tricky. On the one hand I agree that it can lead to complacence, but probably only if it reaches major proportions. Given how even an apparently quite decent game like this (I've bought it but not yet got around to playing it) is seeing very small-scale sales, I don't think it's a real risk. Also, remember that both The Longest Journey and Dreamfall were/are being developed with subsidies from the Norwegian government. I can't help but feel that that's money quite well spent.

Potch

I would like my name in the hat as well.   That's very nice of you to offer that. :-)
The hardest thing in this world... is to live in it. (Sarah Michelle Gellar as Buffy Summers in "The Gift")

marlamoe

I would love a piece of that action ;D

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