Planning for awards season

Started by SSH, Fri 09/12/2005 09:51:46

Previous topic - Next topic

SSH

Well last year it took an age to get the awards done. Just to try and be a bit more organised this year can I ask the question:

Who is running the AGS Awards this year?

and... AGA... can you confirm that you are indeed going to run the FOREGOs and that it wasnt a moment of inebriated rashness on #ags when you said you would.
12

Radiant

On a related issue, last year there was some discussion about how nominations should work. In particular, some people tend to nominate what they like for each and every category even if that's not appropriate. There have been some suggestions on doing things differently that may be worth looking into.


Quoting Pumanan... (from this thread)

Quote
Regardless of this particular case, there is a debate to be had about the nominations process in future AGS Awards. The problem we seem to get, and it happens every year, is that a group of 5 games tend to be the same nominees for all the main awards.

It probably happens because people think to themselves "oooh, I liked game X" and then proceed to nominate it in every category.

The idea has been floated that the nominees could be selected by a committee rather than by the public, and then the public would just vote on the winner. Obviously that's a decision that will need to be made for next year.

SSH

#2
While we're at it, has anyone got the old FOREGO and ERGO results? Darth's site for the former is no more, although last yearsresults are in a thread here, the year I did it is lost and I dont have them on my comp any more...

I just thought it would be good to have the old results in the Wiki...


Funnily enough, the usual fanboy problem may not occur this year anyway as AGDI, Yahtzee and the Schlapfers haven't released anything new (give or take upgrades or space trading sims)
12

Radiant

Quote from: SSH on Fri 09/12/2005 10:39:13
Funnily enough, the usual fanboy problem may not occur this year anyway as AGDI, Yahtzee and the Schlapfers haven't released anything new (give or take upgrades or space trading sims)

True, but that means that this is an excellent opportunity to fix it for next year.

GarageGothic

So who would the nomination committees consist of? People who had won that category previous years? Or anyone who had bothered actually playing everything that came out during the year?

ManicMatt

"..some people tend to nominate what they like for each and every category even if that's not appropriate."

What about giving a multiple choice to select from?

Vince Twelve

Matt, you don't seem to understand the problem.  They're discussing the nomination process, not the voting process.  Nomination takes the list of every game that has been released during the year, and whittles it down to the "multiple choice" for the voting.  The problem is how to choose which five games most deserve to be nominated for each particular award.

And it's probably a discussion that needs to be had, but first, as SSH suggested, it needs to be decided who will run the awards.

Gregjazz

Quote from: SSH on Fri 09/12/2005 10:39:13
Funnily enough, the usual fanboy problem may not occur this year anyway as AGDI, Yahtzee and the Schlapfers haven't released anything new (give or take upgrades or space trading sims)

Hmmm hmm hmm... ;D

Nikolas

What? What? What? Is there something we should know? At least give it to us before ?Christmas! ::)


Kinoko

Can I add the suggestion that the people to choose should be people who really do play everything, or at least most things that come out. People who have been around awhile, too. I'd be useless because I play almost nothing that comes out these days. It really needs to be people who see it all, and people who specialise in different areas, too.

Pretty useless advice as I can't offer any suggestions as to who but that's my 2 cents ^_^

Ishmael

The few last awards have apparently been game voting (and nominating) rather than actual category voting, as some games have swept all the awards. I think something should be done about that.

AGA

Simple answer: we make CJ choose all the nominees.

Uh, joking aside, yes, I will take care of any and all awards no-one else is interested in organising, SSH.

Radiant

It would probably be best to get some knowledgeable people in each area to make the selection. For instance, "best art" should be judged by some of the most active people in the C&C forum because they should know what they're talking about.

In the spirit of fairness they could hold the discussion open on the forums, so that other people know why their fave game was not nominated for each and every category.

Andail

I think the idea of having an "expert" panel deciding the nominees, and a then a popular vote to decide the winner in each category is fair and good.
I'd volonteer for the best background art panel, if one will appear :)

Nikolas

I could volunteer for the music awards. Of course this means that I would have to play all games? Or probably most of them, right? Well, nothing bad in playing some games...

Pumaman

The other question is, should game authors have to enter their games to the awards, or should all games be automatically entered as has happened in the past?

Looking at the list of games that have been released this year, there's about 150 of them and expecting the nomination judges to have played all 150 is unrealistic. So should each game author have to nominate their own game, or should we have a thread dedicated to where people can suggest good games for each category, that the panel would then look at and decide the nominees from?

Nikolas

That's a question.

You're right. Maybe it's not a bad idea to have the creators of the games nominate their games for nominatios. But of course if you have a team, you would have to let the guy who actually did the graphics to nominate the game for the graphics.

A thread would be a little bit wrong imho cause this way you get people voting from the very begining. There is no need for nominations this way. Just open a thread, with the best games of 2005 and there you go! You have the awards.

I hope that the game creators will have the common sense to know what's going on with the rest of the games and not propose a game that has absolutley no chance. And since it is up to the authors then this does make sense. BTW, is there some kind of rules, where music (especially music) and characters/BGs and generally art, cannot be ripped?

Andail

Nikolas, obviously you have to take into considerations such things as art or music being ripped or borrowed or whatever, when you cast your votes. There are no officials rules regarding the nomination procedure, mostly because there haven't really been a proper one; simply a two step popular vote.

So, to clarify.
Previous system:
1. Nomination (members vote on games/persons for nominations in certain categories)
2. Final election (from the the top five entries in each category, each member will vote for one favourite)

Suggested system this year:
1. Registration (someone (either the author of the game, or simply anybody) registers a game/person and make it receptible for nomination.
2. Nomination (a special board of trusted people will choose five games/persons for each category. These people will be required to give every game an equal share of attention, and make their non-biased decisions based on their respective expertise in each area)
3. Final election (a popular vote will decide the winning entry for each category.

Nikolas

I think the system this years sounds better. But on the 1st point (the registration), I woud think that only the author or people that actually worked on the game, would be able to register the game, not just anybody. Anbody couldcreate chaos...

Pumaman

I disagree -- it might be that the game author isn't around for some reason, or that they don't think that their game is award-worthy -- but that shouldn't stop someone else who really liked it from registering it for nominations.

Evil

Maybe a there should be a voting system for who is nominated. People nominate, lets say, 10 games that they think are worthy of winning an award. Then the top whatever are jugded by the pannel and then everyone votes again.

Radiant

I think that what Andail just wrote sounds great. I don't think that abject chaos is going to be much of a problem; if someone involved in the community nominates a game he didn't create, that'd be fine; and if a starstruck newbie with half a dozen posts nominates an inappropriate game, I'm sure the jury could pick that out.

I think Evil's suggestion is too complex. Voting twice isn't going to help, and the whole point of having a jury is to cut away nominations that would be popular but inappropriate.

Pesty

I think whatever suggestion involves me not having to do all the work myself is an excellent suggestion and should be implemented immediately.

I like Andail's idea the most. Simply the suggestion of a registration process makes me happy. Also, I've always been behind the idea of some sort of committee to organize it all. It is too much for just one person!
ACHTUNG FRANZ: Enjoy it with copper wine!

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

Vince Twelve

I'll just link to this suggestion that I wrote in March, though it mostly echoes (or is echoed by) Andail's solution.

milkanannan

Not to sund like a broken record, but I also agree with andail

SSH

Or, since there are no big guns lets stick with what we had previous years! Whatever, the ball better start rolling tomorrow!
12

Snarky

I feel a perverse urge to object.  ;)

Nah. Andail's proposal sounds great. I'm all for it.

Now we just need to decide on the categories...

mwahahaha

When does our game need to be finished to be eligable?

Also, is there just the one award or is there a variety of smaller awards like best sound, graphics, story, puzzles, ect.?

Pesty

Quote from: SSH on Sat 31/12/2005 17:22:30
Or, since there are no big guns lets stick with what we had previous years! Whatever, the ball better start rolling tomorrow!

Saying something like that is the equivalent of volunteering to do it yourself. You'd better start preparing for tomorrow, because I sure as hell am not doing it!
ACHTUNG FRANZ: Enjoy it with copper wine!

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

Peter Bear

Oh yes I Agreeeee

I just wanted to tell that I agree with andail for this year contest.

For the first point, anyone could ask to rate a 2005's game ( as the creator may not be there to ask for it ).

This will reduce the games to rate for the conquest : OK.

A point

but
Maybe anyone should ask to rate any game, and IF there are too much to rate at the end, you should only pick the X first games ( 30, 20 , 10 ? ) in "anybody" will list. That reduces again the number of games to be rated but can sound unfair to the unknown games that will be proposed only by their creator.

JURY SELECTING

AND : how do you plan to select the jury ? I mean, from my own experience, I am a adventure game hardcore gamer, I've bought the first Lucasarts games when they went in shops like 15 years ago, I'm still addicted to this kind of games, I've made some myself during the last 10 years, but released almost "NONE" on the internet.
I studyied art, am found of drawing and pencil skills, like music too, can appreciate skills in story writing, composing etc ... and leaded some MMORPG and adventure game project with my team, but I am not really active on this board, so I certainly won't be in such a jury, as I am unknown ...

So what are your criteras ( requirments ? )  ?

Categories

Maybe more catégories could be proposed, for the Oscars Ceremony, there are much. : Best performance, male, female, sound track :p

Well for a game you can keep your existing categories but maybe split some, like :

Graphics could become : background, and characters, and animation, movies or cutscenes ( if applicable )

Sound could become : soundtrack, sound effects ( ambiance )

And story could be : interested of story, imagination, and fun. ( a sad story can be interested to play, a game can be really funny, with jokes etc, but the story can make nonsense ... )

And the special Palm of the jury for : encouraging beginning, or "unratable" , I dont know.


Conclusion

I sure will keep an eye on this thread ;)

Not much time for gaming neither creating, but keeping an eye on everything :)

mwahahaha

On the topic of catagories, if you're going to introduce awards for story and the like, it would make sense to have a "most original game" catagory as well as, say, funniest/most stupidly ridiculous game as well, for those games that are,  as leshaussebons said, complete tripe in terms of story, but intentionally.

Vince Twelve

Before anyone else suggests something redundant:

There are already categories for best background art, best character art, best music, best sound effects, and best story as well as numerous others.  I personally don't see a reason to have more story-related categories beyond Best Story, Best Character, and Best Supporting Character.  Everyone, to my knowledge, is quite happy with the category selection and only a few category have changed through the years.  So, the categories aren't a big issue.

The issue is with how to do the nominations.  That issue can just be solved by whoever (whomever?) is chosen to run the awards this year.  So, the only real decision that has to be made is who will run the thing... That person can decide to go the comittee route or not and can finalize the categories. 

I say we decide on a person to run the awards the old fashioned way:

* Vince Twelve is not it

or SSH can just do it.

SSH

Well, if no-one else volunteers.... I'l be away until 11th Jan, so if someone wants to do something more elaborate by then, fine. Otherwise, I'll do it.
12

mwahahaha

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Mon 02/01/2006 10:20:03
Before anyone else suggests something redundant:

There are already categories for best background art, best character art, best music, best sound effects, and best story as well as numerous others.Ã,  I personally don't see a reason to have more story-related categories beyond Best Story, Best Character, and Best Supporting Character.Ã,  Everyone, to my knowledge, is quite happy with the category selection and only a few category have changed through the years.Ã,  So, the categories aren't a big issue.

But seriously, there are games with no real story, but still have there own story-esque charm, but really has no place for recognition under the "Best story" award. So maybe we need some alternate, like "Most ridiculous story, if it can so be called."

SSH

By the way, if I am going to run it, I'll start the nominations process as soon as I am back from my holidays, so consider this time an opportunity to make any detailed suggestions about categories, and also to get any games registered in the games database on the main AGS site. One rule I'll have for sure is that if it is not registewred there, its not eligible for an award. Don't like it? Well, just register the game, f00! Quick, while you have the chance.
12

jetxl

#35
I though about this before, and I wanted to discuss this at mittens but we never came to any conclusions.
This is what I had in mind. 12 categories and 2 bonus awards.


Art- edited
Background AND character art. Usually, games with nice backgrounds have nice character art as well, so to stop omni-voting, why not merge them into one. Everbody is saying that graphics isn't important in an adventure game, so why do we need two sepperate art catagories anyway?
The game with mind blowing backgrounds.


Animation- edited
Animations AND character art. Usually, games with nice character art have nice animations as well, so to stop omni-voting, why not merge them into one. Everbody is saying that graphics isn't important in an adventure game, so why do we need two sepperate sprite catagories anyway?

Music & sound- edited
No sound. The game with mind blowing sound and/or music. Music and sound has to be original (not ripped) and made for the game.

Puzzles-
The game with the best designed puzzles.

Programming- added
The game with wicked programming tricks. (could be non-adventure)

Character-
Merged with supporting character. One game can have several awesome characters, so you nominate the character, not the game title.

Demo-
Non-interactive and interactive, but in AGS (no video clips). There aren't many demos in the database, so make sure to add it. (SSH, isn't it too late to add games, since you can't fill in the date?)

Non-adventure-
Non-adventure or joke game.

Resources-
Sprite sheet, module, plug-in, open source, ect.

Horror/thriller-
Best serious game. (could be non-adventure)

Comedy-
Funniest game. (could be non-adventure)

P3n1s award-
Worst AGS game that should have never been released. A dark stain on the shiny AGS coffee mug.

AGS game of 2005-
The game with the most award becomes the Best AGS Game of 2005. If there are two games with both the most awards, then this catagory is skipped.

Lifetime achievement award- added
The person who changed AGS into something even better.
[/list]

Pet Terry

I quite like that idea, Jet, but I would keep the best sound -category as it was before. Sounds effects are a great way to create atmosphere and I think the game with best sound effects should be judged by the way the sound effects are used and how well they work to create atmosphere.
<SSH> heavy pettering
Screen 7

simulacra

Well jet, I think your genre definitions are a bit narrow and normative. It isn't exactly so that the two possible genres of point and click games are either comedy or horror/thriller. Can't we come up with something a bit less Hollywoodistic?

I also agree with Petteri that sound is a different cup of tea than music. And how about voice acting? And what about video sequences?

Mordalles

will commercial games come into the awards. especially since i dont think the same amount of people would have played commercial games like they play freeware. and that would mean less votes for commercial games.

haha, simulcra, isnt ure game the only game with video sequences? haha. that means my vote goes for u in that regard.  ;)

"It's a fairy! She's naked! Curse these low-res graphics!" - Duty and Beyond

jetxl

#39
Quote from: Petteri on Tue 03/01/2006 13:09:55
I quite like that idea, Jet, but I would keep the best sound -category as it was before. Sounds effects are a great way to create atmosphere and I think the game with best sound effects should be judged by the way the sound effects are used and how well they work to create atmosphere.

Sound is indeed important to a game, but I don't think it is strong enough to have its own category. Nobody ever says something like "Boy, MI4 was crap, but the sound effects made it worth playing."
Almost all the sound effects used in ags games are ripped from other games or found somewere else. And why not, it is easier, the quality is better and there is a lot of choice (my personal sound collection for opening a door has the normal door, wooden door, squeeking door, iron door and church door).
I don't think you should get an AGS award for just finding the right sound effect, unless you made them yourself by creating the sound of footsteps by recording your fists punching the litter box, gunshots by hitting your ruler on the desk and the sound of an alien eating human flesh by ripping a lettuce apart. Untill most ags games use home made sound effects, it can go into the Best Music category.

I want the AGS awards to be seen as a real achievement. A way to define a quality ags game.
No more wonky categories like Most Pimped Game.

-edit- Simulacra, speech and video sequences are just not used in enough games to have their own categories.
Less is more.

Vel

I personally consider last year's categories to be just fine. And will there be no lifetime achievement award this year? I think there should be one.

And while we're at it, I entirely support SSH for running the awards - he has shown immense reliability, and it would be nice to have the awards earlier than April this year.

mwahahaha

Yeh, nice list jet, but what about story and script?  They're important aspects of any adventure game, and not really confined to just comedy and horror.

Charaters are fine, but not really a summary for the whole story.

Otherwise, nice list!

Redwall

Yeah, the "Dialogue" category was always a neat one IMO. A "Plot" category wouldn't be too bad either. I understand the intentions behind the serious/comedy distinction but I'm not sure it really works as stated.
aka Nur-ab-sal

"Fixed is not unbroken."

edmundito

A new category for short game should be added... not because I made a short game myself, but a lot of other people did, too. I don't think it's fair that a short game competes with a med/full-length game.
The Tween Module now supports AGS 3.6.0!

simulacra

jet: I know that these things aren't very common, but perhaps they would become more common if these things were endorsed?

mordalles: Perhaps video should be bundled into the animation category? Not so that I'd win the category (I sincerely believe that the video isn't good enough for that), but not to exclude it since I'd like to see more video in games.

Vince Twelve

#45
I hope the P3n1s award isn't making crappy games more common...

I'd hope that people would include videos and voices in their games because they would improve the game experience, not because they want to win an award.  That being said, I'm not against it, in fact I think an award for voice acting might be good.  I just think that's not necessarily a good reason for an award. 

Again, I think the categories that have been used for the last few years are adequate.  Here are last years categories with my few suggestions bolded.

Overall award: Best game

Graphics awards: Best character art, Best background art, Best Animation

Sound awards: Best music, Best sound effects, (Perhaps Best Voice Acting should be considered)

Story awards: Best story, Best dialogs (writing), Best player character, Best supporting character

Game design awards: Best gameplay, Best puzzles (though I think this MIGHT be combined with gameplay), Best scripting (programming)

Other: Best documentation, Best Utility/Application, Best Hour game (though I suggest Best Hour Game get scrapped in favor of Best Demo or Best Short Game, or both!), Best Non-Adventure Game, P3N1S Award, Lifetime achievement

Edit:  I'm aware that some people don't think innovation is so important to the amature adventure scene, but I am not one of those people.  I would like to see a "Most Innovative" award added to the list.

Nikolas

I do feel rather thick sometimes, but in the end, how is this thing going to work? I mean Andails proposal had to do with different people deciding on which games to nominate for each category and then voting... Is this still the case?

Vince Twelve

The idea, I believe, is that a small committee of knowledgeable people choose the most appropriate five(ish) "nominees" from the list of games released that year.  This prevents the problem we've had in the past of popular games getting nominated for every category regardless of whether they actually deserve a nomination above other less popular games.

The list of nominees is voted on by the entire community just as it has been every year previously and the winner is chosen by popular vote.

jetxl

I'm happy that we have a discussion about the awards.
Last year was chaos. Way too many categories. Poor Pesty.

I'm afraid that if Best Game, Best Story, Best Plot and Best Dialog have their own category, some people will just copy-paste 'Stargate' in every one of them. We want to give the good games their awards but stop omni-voting as well. Less categories with a lot of difference between them will force people to thing longer about their votes, and let one award mean something more.

-Edmundo- Did you add your game in the database? You could have added it under 'Joke game'...

This was my idea for the nomination.
Jury members are selected.

SSH, because he is a scottish super hero, nuf said.
AGA, because he has computer hacking skills.
Rui Pires, because he collects all the games.
Joyce,
jane,
Rosie,
Ida,
sunshinegold, these people pritty much run the hintip forum. They played and finished at least half of all the ags games out there.
[other rightfull members who know, played and finished a lot of ags games]

The jury members nominate games for every category by selecting the games they think deserves an award.
They can add as much games as they see fit.
The lists are merged into one big list, where the common folk can vote on the games by selecting one game in each category.
The game with the most awards wins the Best Game award.
The moderators can argue about who wins the lifetime achiefment award.

pros:
    Simple, not chaotic.
    Jury doesn't have to argue with eachother.
    Members only have to vote once.
    Experts chose the games, but the members still deside the final vote.
    The nominated games are very good games.
    Omni-voting is for a part stopped.

If a certan game isn't nominated, it's because it didn't made an impression on any of the jury members. The same thing would have happened in the old system, but on a larger scale.

scourge

character art and background art can't be grouped together. Its not the same at all.

jetxl

Quote from: buloght on Wed 04/01/2006 11:44:11
character art and background art can't be grouped together. Its not the same at all.

You are correct.
Maybe merge character art with animation?

Vince Twelve

#51
Jet, having fewer but more generalized awards and having a jury decide on the nominations are two solutions to the same problem.  I see no reason to implement both of them.  I feel that your suggestions change the AGS awards far more than they need to be changed and I see that as a potentially bad thing.

I believe that the chaotic part about last year, and Pesty can correct me if I'm wrong, was the nominations process.  Having everyone write in their nominations and then having to tally all of them was an insanely difficult undertaking for her.  Of course reducing the number of categories would have helped, but I believe the heart of the problem lies in the nominations process.

I feel that your generalized categories are over-generalized.  Story and plot ARE the same thing, or at least close enough, which is why there are not two separate awards.  Story and dialog, however, are completely different things.  For example, while I enjoyed the story of Cirque de Zale, I wouldn't have put it in my top five games in terms of plot.  I WOULD, however, hand it the award for best dialogs without a second thought.  The quality of the script was head and shoulders above any other that year, in my opinion, while the story was... just good.

I also disagree with the idea that the game with the most other awards be awarded the "Game of the Year" award.  This is assuming that a game is the sum of its parts, specifically: a game is the sum of the parts as defined by our award categories.  One game may do everything superbly (graphics, music, gameplay, story, etc.), making an amazing game experience, but then another game with slightly better graphics and music but crappy gameplay and plot could steal the GotY award.  For example Yahtzee's games are always fantastic, but while his graphics are good, they're not going to win awards, and his music is all ripped.  Sometimes the best game of the year is going to be a game of great consistency that does everything well, but nothing best.  If you are going to assume that a game is worth the number of awards it wins, you'd better make sure you have enough categories that are specific and comprehensive, not generalized and abbreviated.

Those are my (really long) two cents.  I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

Having a jury of a few people select the nominees clears up "omni-nominations" and lowers the burden placed upon the awards runner and I agree that it's a good idea.  How to select this jury (or juries if you want to have different people with different specialties choose the different categories' nominees) I guess should be up to the awards runner.  The final vote is, as it should be, left up to the fickle public.

EDIT:
* Vince Twelve waits for someone to make us all feel stupid by saying "Geez guys, the awards are just a little bit of fun... stop taking it so serious."

More awards = more fun, right?

Snarky

#52
I think I prefer Andail's process to what Jet is suggesting...

There are a few things we need to consider:


  • Should we have one committee to nominate all the categories, or separate committees for each category? If the latter, can the same person serve on different committees? If so, on how many? (It seems like you'd need different people to judge things like best music and things like best scripting.)
  • How do we deal with commercial games? That fewer people have played them isn't necessarily a problem, but do we require everyone on the committee to buy them?
  • What about non-English games? I'm thinking especially of the numerous Maniac Mansion Mania games, most of which are only available in German.
  • I would suggest a category for Most Original/Creative Game. (On closer examination, I guess Vince already suggested that.)
I would also like to suggest Jozef Purdes for the/a committee, if he's up for it. That column he used to run for DIY Games was my de-facto shortlist for the nominations last year.

Finally, I think the categories from last year were mostly good, though it might be good to reduce the number of them somewhat. Personally, I'd suggest getting rid of "Best Animation" (highly correlated with best character art), and maybe change "Best Sound Effects" into a "Best Multimedia" including sound effects, voice acting and video. Possibly merge "Best Gameplay" and "Best Puzzles".

jetxl

I think that we have to keep it serious to get the best solution, Vince. :-)

More awards = more fun. Having 100 categories from best speech font to best sequal is fun? I disagree.
I don't know 5 games with voice action. I haven't played a single non-english game. The people deside which games are best, and if people can't play games because they are commercial then bad luck to the creators. At least they got money to wipe their tears. (Mystery Manor is a piece of shit anyway)
Less categories, however, is more fun, exciting and suprising.

There isn't much difference between wat Andail said and my idea. Apart for skipping the registration, and a different jury for every category, it's the same.

I couldn't find the results of last year, but didn't ToaK won Best Game, Best Dialog and Best Story? Didn't they won most awards as well?


[Teh BIG List of 2005: 168 games]
Principles of Evil: Volume I Divot Design Medium length games 02 Jan 2005
Star Wars Shadows of the Empire: Grap... Death Star Games Demos 05 Jan 2005
Barn Runner 3: Don't Jerk The Trigger... Ponch Non-adventure games 07 Jan 2005
DG: the search of the batteries Robin Gravel Short games 09 Jan 2005
Barn Runner 1: The Armageddon Eclair Ponch Medium length games 14 Jan 2005
Satch's Quest Diego Barutta Joke games 26 Jan 2005
Zooreal Neil Dnuma MAGS games 27 Jan 2005
Mikes Room Candle Short games 28 Jan 2005
Earl Bobby is looking for his shoes Le Woltaire Short games 29 Jan 2005
A Tale In The Zoo Rani Hasan a.k.a.... Short games 31 Jan 2005
Legend of Rovendale part1 Endrews Medium length games 02 Feb 2005
Floyd SB the Company Man Stephen R. Owens Medium length games 02 Feb 2005
Jack Trasheater Chapter I - pain house Massimo Nardelli Short games 03 Feb 2005
Battle Warriors DEMO 3.0 Endrews Non-adventure games 05 Feb 2005
The Princess and all the Kingdom Matthew G. & Tadd H. Short games 07 Feb 2005
Beyond the door Bulrog Medium length games 09 Feb 2005
The Lone Loser PS-Soft Demos 09 Feb 2005
Troopers Tech Beta mamarulez Demos 13 Feb 2005
Catacombic jetxl Medium length games 16 Feb 2005
Supergirl in We Don't Need Another Hero Ronn A. Mann Medium length games 23 Feb 2005
Pixel Hunt SuperScottishHero MAGS games 25 Feb 2005
Hotel Hijinks Pelican MAGS games 25 Feb 2005
Missing since Midnight Maxileen MAGS games 26 Feb 2005
Hit the Freak Hector Montaner Short games 27 Feb 2005
Pester Quest Scummbuddy Joke games 28 Feb 2005
The Majestic Conspiracy demo Tim Hengeveld a.k... Demos 03 Mar 2005
Escape the ship AnInhumer Short games 03 Mar 2005
Ben Jordan: Paranormal Investigator C... Francisco Gonzalez Medium length games 05 Mar 2005
Norbi's quest 2 Pilcz Studios Medium length games 07 Mar 2005
Battle Warriors : Rovendale Tactics (... Endrews Medium length games 07 Mar 2005
IG: Space Adventurer MillsJROSS Short games 08 Mar 2005
Wolf Country (DEMO) aussie Demos 09 Mar 2005
Norbi Winter Special Pilcz Studios Short games 09 Mar 2005
Recess 2 Velislav Ivanov Short games 13 Mar 2005
COP the Game Tuntis Short games 18 Mar 2005
The Draft Drifter Who Dashed Doctor D... Stefan Lohner Medium length games 19 Mar 2005
Inspector Gismoe Gijs Dekker Short games 20 Mar 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania - Episode 1: Sib... LucasFan Games Short games 23 Mar 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania - Episode 4: Mim... DasJan Short games 26 Mar 2005
Frank the Farmhand Part 2 Mattias Jeppsson Full length games 30 Mar 2005
ShortCUT Andy White (FrogM... Short games 03 Apr 2005
Lassi & Roger: Meet the God jannar85 Short games 03 Apr 2005
Robotragedy Pijin Pastrana Full length games 03 Apr 2005
Asap Adventure [stripped] jannar85 Short games 03 Apr 2005
Fasmo gonzo29 Short games 06 Apr 2005
Proxecto Percebe (DEMO) Alejandro Fandiño Demos 06 Apr 2005
Great Stroke Off!, The Barbarian Full length games 07 Apr 2005
7th Sense, The Abisso Short games 07 Apr 2005
Lifeboat: Story of Cedrick: The Direc... OsUltimo Short games 10 Apr 2005
Stan's Revenge Nethros Joke games 10 Apr 2005
Ahmet's AGS Fight Game (with Source C... CoolBlue-Gord10 Non-adventure games 13 Apr 2005
Hero Of Infamous Kingdoms Silver Sphinx Stu... Joke games 16 Apr 2005
Simpsons Adventure Game Joseph DiPerla Demos 21 Apr 2005
Knight's Quest IV - Here Today, Gone ... Frequentor Medium length games 24 Apr 2005
Elevator, The Barbarian Short games 24 Apr 2005
PONG mamarulez Non-adventure games 02 May 2005
The Young Gabriel King Chronicles Steve McCrea Short games 04 May 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania Episode 8 - 'The... hansa_export Medium length games 04 May 2005
James Peris es el agente 00,5 Oriol Roselló Full length games 06 May 2005
The Medical Theories of Dr. Kur R. Higgins Medium length games 06 May 2005
Silent Knight - Chapter 1 : The Medio... Niels H. Sørensen Medium length games 07 May 2005
Where's M' Hat Ma ? Wretched MAGS games 08 May 2005
Detention! Stuart Lowndes Short games 08 May 2005
Saturday School Edmundo Ruiz Short games 08 May 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania Episode 15: Plac... Problem Short games 09 May 2005
Ben Jordan: Paranormal Warrior Within... Edmundo Ruiz Joke games 10 May 2005
Secrets Of sultan Kanuni proximity Medium length games 10 May 2005
Invincible Island Remake Andy Mason Medium length games 13 May 2005
Line Game gonzo29 Non-adventure games 16 May 2005
The Quest To Zooloo - Full Talkie Yotam Elal Full length games 16 May 2005
Duke Stanley: National Hero IN The 30... DontTreadOnMe Short games 22 May 2005
The Bar Niels H. Sørensen Short games 26 May 2005
Aswin's Dream Coffeesoft - Aswin Short games 27 May 2005
Unfinished Tales Julián Zorzeón Short games 28 May 2005
Starship Caramba Boris Zdero (AKA ... MAGS games 29 May 2005
Apprentice 1 Deluxe Herculean Effort ... Medium length games 29 May 2005
The Zero Hero Magintz Demos 17 Jun 2005
Long expected Friday- small fixes cp Medium length games 18 Jun 2005
Spacewar( episode 1 the crystal) Sameera Wijesundera Short games 20 Jun 2005
Rapstar 1.5 proximity Non-adventure games 20 Jun 2005
Shemwood Plains IdiotBox Medium length games 22 Jun 2005
Valis - !!! Updated Demo !!! V1.10 Willy Picard Demos 25 Jun 2005
The Bunker Erenan MAGS games 27 Jun 2005
Spacewar episode 2 ( Curien strikes b... Sameera Wijesundera Medium length games 29 Jun 2005
Bear Story v1.3 IceMan Short games 03 Jul 2005
Aazor: The Life of a Demon - Part I: ... Ben Roberts Short games 09 Jul 2005
Da New Guys IceMan Medium length games 13 Jul 2005
Walters Astroid Gurki Medium length games 23 Jul 2005
Da New Guys: Day of the Jackass IceMan Demos 24 Jul 2005
Jessica Plunkenstein and the Düssseld... Greg Edwards Full length games 25 Jul 2005
Pennis: The Ultimate in Pong! OsUltimo Non-adventure games 27 Jul 2005
Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulo... Yahtzee Medium length games 27 Jul 2005
Belusebius Arrival Djokic Bojan DJOK... Short games 28 Jul 2005
Unfinished bluber MAGS games 30 Jul 2005
PiXiA: Rainbow of Havoc Alias MAGS games 31 Jul 2005
Laura Bow in: The Road to Murder gamecourier Short games 01 Aug 2005
Guy Slug: Private Eye RoboPenguin Short games 03 Aug 2005
He's Gone Historical (Calacver) calacver Medium length games 03 Aug 2005
One Bradley Walker Non-adventure games 04 Aug 2005
Alone in the Night AJA Short games 05 Aug 2005
Vitlausi leikurinn Fribbi Short games 05 Aug 2005
The Black Sky Fribbi Short games 09 Aug 2005
Noisy Mountain Fightmeyer Medium length games 11 Aug 2005
RoN-The Outbreak Djokic Bojan Djok... Short games 14 Aug 2005
Labyrinth Akumayo Non-adventure games 15 Aug 2005
Chick Chaser aussie Full length games 17 Aug 2005
Emily Enough: Imprisoned Logan Medium length games 18 Aug 2005
The Oracle Eugene Couto Demos 22 Aug 2005
Knight's Quest III - Tides of Merania Frequentor Medium length games 25 Aug 2005
Magsic Wretched MAGS games 26 Aug 2005
Anna Vince Twelve Short games 26 Aug 2005
Buna Wants Beer Aapeli Kutila MAGS games 26 Aug 2005
C.U.T.E. The Marvellous Adventures of... SuperScottishHero Short games 30 Aug 2005
ESPER: The Town on the Edge of Darkness Cal Souza Short games 31 Aug 2005
Otaku Rivals calacver Medium length games 31 Aug 2005
Into The Light etchersquaredgames Short games 31 Aug 2005
Return to Civilization misterskipperdoo Medium length games 03 Sep 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania - Episode 9 - ra... Rocco Medium length games 05 Sep 2005
Magsic II Wretched Medium length games 06 Sep 2005
Soviet Unterzögersdorf monochrom, cccp.at Full length games 06 Sep 2005
Frog Island Audunsoft Short games 06 Sep 2005
Horror Hospital Incomplete Demo Redrum89 Demos 07 Sep 2005
The Dark Trial Pilcz Studios Demos 11 Sep 2005
Alien Time Zone Babar Short games 19 Sep 2005
Mordy: On Holiday Mordalles Medium length games 20 Sep 2005
Chalk's Quest Aapeli Kutila Joke games 26 Sep 2005
La Gran Castanya Arnau Bernat Full length games 27 Sep 2005
Crave Wretched MAGS games 28 Sep 2005
1 MIssing In Action foz Non-adventure games 30 Sep 2005
Slug Princess Wretched Short games 01 Oct 2005
Power Unlimited boardgame jetxl Non-adventure games 07 Oct 2005
No, I Am Spartacus! OsUltimo Short games 14 Oct 2005
Silent Knight: Chapter 2 - The Consci... Niels H. Sørensen Medium length games 16 Oct 2005
Force majeure II: The Zone Leo Nordwall Full length games 17 Oct 2005
Goose Quest 1 DEMO King_Nipper Demos 20 Oct 2005
Adventure Game Demo Thomas VoàŸ Demos 23 Oct 2005
Dance Til' You Drop! ProgZmax Medium length games 24 Oct 2005
Stargate Adventure Sektor 13 Medium length games 29 Oct 2005
Zugzwang Wretched MAGS games 29 Oct 2005
Domestic Conspiracy Demo Vince Twelve Demos 30 Oct 2005
Dark of Night Barbarian Short games 30 Oct 2005
Deflus Technical Demo Ralph & Aapeli Demos 30 Oct 2005
Bunny Quest Wretched Joke games 31 Oct 2005
Legend of Rovendale 2 Mystic Island Endrews Full length games 03 Nov 2005
Class Notes juasma Short games 06 Nov 2005
Lost In The Nightmare v1.1 CoolBlue-Gord10 Medium length games 07 Nov 2005
The Winter Rose BaRoN Medium length games 09 Nov 2005
Prodigal Trisk Full length games 09 Nov 2005
Operation Novi He-Man Non-adventure games 21 Nov 2005
Mind's Eye ProgZmax Full length games 22 Nov 2005
Bob Goes Home mozza Short games 23 Nov 2005
Hell's Satans mozza Non-adventure games 23 Nov 2005
MOTLPAA Radiant Non-adventure games 24 Nov 2005
The Paramecium Complex BaRoN MAGS games 26 Nov 2005
Javelin Catch Erenan Joke games 27 Nov 2005
Legends Of Mardaram Orange Medium length games 06 Dec 2005
META Radiant Short games 08 Dec 2005
A walk in da tomb Pmdee Short games 09 Dec 2005
AS Racing Manager Endrews Medium length games 12 Dec 2005
Princess Marian VIII: Snowfight SuperScottishHero Non-adventure games 16 Dec 2005
Der verschwundene Husky Timo Becker Medium length games 17 Dec 2005
EXIT Willy Damuz Short games 18 Dec 2005
AGS Chess! Akumayo Non-adventure games 22 Dec 2005
Elf Motors Inc. Erenan MAGS games 24 Dec 2005
A Knight's Pursuit I buloght Short games 24 Dec 2005
ELFO:Rescue Craby DarkArcangel MAGS games 24 Dec 2005
Cedric and the Revolution Bernie MAGS games 24 Dec 2005
1213 Episode I Yahtzee Medium length games 30 Dec 2005

Andail

Thanks for your huge efforts, Jet, but we have just decided to give Becky all the awards this year.

This saved a lot of time, didn't it?

jetxl


Helm

Becky is one of my female slaves.
WINTERKILL

Mordalles

snarky, you CANT merge animation with character art. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!! there is such a big difference between the 2! come on, now.

i cant believe you even suggested it.  :o

"It's a fairy! She's naked! Curse these low-res graphics!" - Duty and Beyond

Snarky

Quote from: Mordalles on Wed 04/01/2006 20:58:32
snarky, you CANT merge animation with character art. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!! there is such a big difference between the 2! come on, now.

i cant believe you even suggested it.Ã,  :o

Chill. I realize that they are different in theory, but I think in practice the games that have good character art have good animations, and vice versa. Last year the list of nominations for the two categories were nearly identical (which admittedly was true for many of the categories).

Quote from: jet on Wed 04/01/2006 17:24:07
I don't know 5 games with voice action. I haven't played a single non-english game.

No, neither have I... because I don't speak German, Finnish, Hebrew, Italian, or most of the other languages that AGS games were made in last year (wasn't there even a foreign language MAGS?). However, I know that some of these games look good. Like maybe they deserve an award. But if the committee can't play them because they don't understand the language, they can't nominate them. I think that's a problem.

One solution would be to have a "Best Non-English Game" category and put together a multi-lingual jury. Or we could restrict the competition to only English games (since the forums are restricted to English). Or we could team up with adventure game communities from other language zones, and let them deal with the non-English titles. Or we could ignore the problem and hope no one notices the discrimination.

As for voice acting, that's kind of why I suggested a Multimedia category, to bundle together all kinds of bells and whistles that are rare, but are found in some games.

QuoteThe people deside which games are best, and if people can't play games because they are commercial then bad luck to the creators. At least they got money to wipe their tears. (Mystery Manor is a piece of shit anyway)

That's not the point. Commercial games certainly have less chance of winning if fewer people have played them. Never mind that. That's their problem, and the same is true of free games that few people have played. The point is that with a jury system for nominations, they can't even be nominated, because we can't demand (can we?) that the committee buy all of the games. Take a game like The Zone (which I bought but haven't played yet), which looks like a plausible contender for some of the awards. Is it excluded from the contest because it's not available for free? That doesn't seem very fair to me. Especially since 2006 will probably see Al Emmo published, by the looks of it the most professional AGS game produced yet. If that isn't eligible for next year's awards, it'll make the AGS Awards a joke.

QuoteThere isn't much difference between wat Andail said and my idea. Apart for skipping the registration, and a different jury for every category, it's the same.

I think the differences are for the worse, along with your new categories and choosing the Game of the Year on the basis of the most awards.

Pumaman

Quote from: Snarky on Wed 04/01/2006 21:37:47
Commercial games certainly have less chance of winning if fewer people have played them. Never mind that. That's their problem, and the same is true of free games that few people have played. The point is that with a jury system for nominations, they can't even be nominated, because we can't demand (can we?) that the committee buy all of the games. Take a game like The Zone (which I bought but haven't played yet), which looks like a plausible contender for some of the awards. Is it excluded from the contest because it's not available for free? That doesn't seem very fair to me. Especially since 2006 will probably see Al Emmo published, by the looks of it the most professional AGS game produced yet. If that isn't eligible for next year's awards, it'll make the AGS Awards a joke.

While we're on the topic, should commercial games be permitted on the AGS Games Page? Currently games must have a "Download" link and it doesn't cater for a "Buy Now" link or something like that instead. Is this something we should provide, or should the Games Page continue to cater for free games only?

Anarcho

If you take away the download requirement, you might get lots of people posting unfinished or nonexistant games.  On the other hand, if the games page is there to list all released AGS games, then commercial games should be added.  But on the third hand, if people are going to sell there game, then maybe we should just say, "you're on your own!  Good luck!"


MrColossal

why not? if the games have demos you can link to that...

and really, they should, right?
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

jetxl

Apearently I missed your point. I don't even knowÃ,  if there is a point, but if you have then I missed it.


There is no seperation, everbody is free to vote/nominate/register non english games. Your idea, however, IS seperation.

Voice acting is nice and all, but they are rare. You can't even fill this category with 5 games. So you want a junk category where we put all the other games with rare features in? Seperation!

Next year, everbody is free to vote/nominate/register on Al Emmo: The Lost Dutchman Mine. If it doesn't win, it's because it didn't get enough votes. Just like many freeware games (who might have trouble with their server, and can't be downloaded anymore). Their chances are equal.

Here it gets really vague, really fast.
Quote from: Snarky on Wed 04/01/2006 21:37:47
QuoteThere isn't much difference between wat Andail said and my idea. Apart for skipping the registration, and a different jury for every category, it's the same.
I think the differences are for the worse, along with your new categories and choosing the Game of the Year on the basis of the most awards.
I think the differences are for the worse I see hard words, but I don't see your motivation.
along with your new categories They aren't 'new' they are merged. And if you don't like merged categories then what is this:
Quote from: Snarky on Wed 04/01/2006 15:23:37
Finally, I think the categories from last year were mostly good, though it might be good to reduce the number of them somewhat. Personally, I'd suggest getting rid of "Best Animation" (highly correlated with best character art), and maybe change "Best Sound Effects" into a "Best Multimedia" including sound effects, voice acting and video. Possibly merge "Best Gameplay" and "Best Puzzles".
So it turns out that your point is you're a hypocrit, and I no longer care what you want to say...

Andail

Hm, I'm not sure there is a point in arguing this anymore, especially since it seems to get increasingly hostile.

Maybe it is better if the moderators just decide on the rules, and SSH can get it rolling as he comes back?

jetxl

Let me just say this before I wander off wearing nothing but a swimming dress, again.

I though trough it for a time, and my personal opinion was that it's ballanced quite well. Then some snob starts nagging "what about the foreign language games?"
What about them?

And who is Becky?

Czar

Quote from: Andail on Sat 10/12/2005 14:26:57
Nikolas, obviously you have to take into considerations such things as art or music being ripped or borrowed or whatever, when you cast your votes. There are no officials rules regarding the nomination procedure, mostly because there haven't really been a proper one; simply a two step popular vote.

So, to clarify.
Previous system:
1. Nomination (members vote on games/persons for nominations in certain categories)
2. Final election (from the the top five entries in each category, each member will vote for one favourite)

Suggested system this year:
1. Registration (someone (either the author of the game, or simply anybody) registers a game/person and make it receptible for nomination.
2. Nomination (a special board of trusted people will choose five games/persons for each category. These people will be required to give every game an equal share of attention, and make their non-biased decisions based on their respective expertise in each area)
3. Final election (a popular vote will decide the winning entry for each category.

Just to make it clear, Andail, there will be registration for every category separtely(sp)?

One more thing. I saw what Jet wrote about categories. To move the confusion maybe the Music category should be renamed to Original Music & sound award.

I'm sorry for not reading the whole thread, but a Ben Jordan marathon is waiting for me.
:P
Roses are #FF0000
Violets are #0000FF
All my base
are belong to you

Andail

In my vision, registration is done with no regards to the categories.

The chief point in my vision is that a small board of dedicated people decide on five of the registered games for each category. This will somewhat reduce the chances of people omni-voting for games they like personally, without considering what the categories actually mean.

I don't really have any opinions on the categories, but I guess the ones we've used in the past work well.

However, I think we should just wait until SSH comes back, if he's the one who'll handle it.

PS:
And Becky is just a not very active member. DS's girlfriend, by the way.

Snarky

I have no problem with the moderators making the decisions from here. I don't think it's necessary to close the discussion, though, since more useful suggestions might still come up. (Vince's suggestion of a category for most innovative game, which I think is a great idea, is an example of a proposal that SSH or whoever will be in charge might not have thought of if not for this thread.)

Quote from: jet on Wed 04/01/2006 23:10:58
Apearently I missed your point. I don't even knowÃ,  if there is a point, but if you have then I missed it.

There is a point, and I'll try to state it clearly: I think the idea of delegating the nominations to a jury or committee is a good one, but it also introduces some problems. Because we're asking the jury to consider all the games vying for an award fairly, they need to have a chance to play all of those games. However, this may not always be possible, for instance because (a) the game is in a language they don't speak, or (b) the game costs money they don't want to pay.

We should consider how to deal with this, so that games aren't unintentionally excluded from the competition.

QuoteThere is no seperation, everbody is free to vote/nominate/register non english games. Your idea, however, IS seperation.

I assume you mean "discrimination"? How are we supposed to ask the jury/committee to play games that aren't in English, if the committee members only speak English? And if we say "just ignore those games", aren't we discriminating against them?

QuoteVoice acting is nice and all, but they are rare. You can't even fill this category with 5 games. So you want a junk category where we put all the other games with rare features in? Seperation!

Not a junk category. A category that games can be nominated to for different reasons. Does it make sense to award games that make good use of multimedia features like sound effects, voice acting and video cutscenes? If we think it does, we should have a category for it (or several).

QuoteNext year, everbody is free to vote/nominate/register on Al Emmo: The Lost Dutchman Mine. If it doesn't win, it's because it didn't get enough votes. Just like many freeware games (who might have trouble with their server, and can't be downloaded anymore). Their chances are equal.

Again, the point is the jury. Can we demand that everyone on the jury must buy all the commercial AGS games that people want them to consider? If not, how can they give them a fair consideration?

I have some ideas for how to deal with this. For instance, if the creators of a commercial game want to be considered for an award, they have to provide complementary (i.e. free) copies of the game for the people on the jury. Or we could officially exclude commercial games from the competition. Or they could be included at the jury's discretion. Or they could be evaluated based on their demos. Etc. Whatever solution we choose, it's something we have to decide how to deal with.

QuoteHere it gets really vague, really fast.

I think the differences are for the worse I see hard words, but I don't see your motivation.
along with your new categories They aren't 'new' they are merged.

My point was simply to address your objection that your proposal was essentially the same as Andail's (and, implicitly, that it therefore doesn't make sense for me to dislike it when I like his): It's specifically the differences between the two that I don't like. I don't particularly feel like arguing about why I think they are worse, since most of my reasons have already been mentioned by others.

Your categories are "different". Let's just leave it at that.

QuoteAnd if you don't like merged categories then what is this:
Quote from: Snarky on Wed 04/01/2006 15:23:37
Finally, I think the categories from last year were mostly good, though it might be good to reduce the number of them somewhat. Personally, I'd suggest getting rid of "Best Animation" (highly correlated with best character art), and maybe change "Best Sound Effects" into a "Best Multimedia" including sound effects, voice acting and video. Possibly merge "Best Gameplay" and "Best Puzzles".

That's me not "not liking" merged categories. I agree with you that we should merge some of the categories from last year. I just didn't like the list you came up with. For instance, I don't think getting rid of the story and dialogue categories makes sense, I would much rather have a "gameplay" category than one for "puzzles", the categories for "comedy" and "horror" games make no sense, I think the Game of the Year should be voted for separately, and your original proposal had several other problems (merging background and character art, not having a lifetime achievement award, etc.) that you have fixed since then.

QuoteSo it turns out that your point is you're a hypocrit, and I no longer care what you want to say...

Screw you. You don't see that we're all trying to come up with the best system we can think of? Or are you unable to accept that your proposal might not be perfect in every way? That's the point of discussion: to propose different alternatives, criticize them to discover their weaknesses, and try to determine which ones are best. If you don't want to be involved in that process, you're essentially admitting that your goal isn't to improve the AGS Awards, but just to get your own way.

Pesty

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Wed 04/01/2006 13:04:34
I believe that the chaotic part about last year, and Pesty can correct me if I'm wrong, was the nominations process.Ã,  Having everyone write in their nominations and then having to tally all of them was an insanely difficult undertaking for her.Ã,  Of course reducing the number of categories would have helped, but I believe the heart of the problem lies in the nominations process.

Really, it was the whole thing. The thing that took the longest was sorting through the game announcement  forums for every game released in 2004. Tallying everything did suck hard, I have to admit, but a lot of it was pretty much automated, and I didn't really have to do a lot aside from certain things.

I was really frusterated when people would just vote for their favorite game in every category, regardless of what the category was. That's why I'm all for a committee, because then we won't have one game sweeping the awards, and other games will get a chance to be considered. It just seems unfair to me.
ACHTUNG FRANZ: Enjoy it with copper wine!

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

Nikolas

In the whole process of the awards it is obvious that the creators themselfs (or their fans), take huge part. I mean it is they that they will first nominate any games. After that it is the comitee. And I can only hope that a game with roger as the main character (and we have some games with this), no matter how much we all love it, is rather difficult to be even nominated for best character/best animation/best BGs (probably) awards.

From the artistic point of view at least, the nomination can be decided pretty quickly. For example, the amulate of Kings (not released yet so no problem in me mentioning it here), is rather obvious that it should be at least considered for a nomination (depending on the rest of the games for 2006/7/8  (<-Any release date?) ;D). You don't really have to play the game to see that there is some professional job done in all areas, but the graphics department is simply stunning. The same goes for Al emmo and other games.

I hope that with the comitees the voting for my favourite game to every award, won't be possible now...

CJ: If there is a link saying "click here to go to the game's site"? Would this work. In the case of the Zone for example the link would take us to the zone site, where you can find all relevant information there (and an option to buy). Also the demo idea is not a bad one, providing that there is a demo available (which there isn't in the zone, yet, is there?). And of course a note in the specific game page saying that "this game is not freeware", would certainly help.  But since it is made with AGS it should be there.

Radiant

A semi-related point to all this, there is an issue of fair competition involved. Virtually all AGS games are homemade games by non-professional enthousiastic fans of the genre. Al Emmo in particular is not, because it has a rather large budget and employs professional paid artists. Apples and oranges.

I entirely and wholeheartedly agree with Pesty's remark that "people would just vote for their favorite game in every category, regardless of what the category was. That's why I'm all for a committee, because then we won't have one game sweeping the awards, and other games will get a chance to be considered. It just seems unfair to me."

History has shown that one game can easily sweep the awards. If we really want that then we could simply have only one award.

simulacra

QuoteAgain, the point is the jury. Can we demand that everyone on the jury must buy all the commercial AGS games that people want them to consider? If not, how can they give them a fair consideration?

I have some ideas for how to deal with this. For instance, if the creators of a commercial game want to be considered for an award, they have to provide complementary (i.e. free) copies of the game for the people on the jury. Or we could officially exclude commercial games from the competition. Or they could be included at the jury's discretion. Or they could be evaluated based on their demos. Etc. Whatever solution we choose, it's something we have to decide how to deal with.

I think that giving complemenyary copies to the jury is the least a commercial project could do.

QuoteIn the case of the Zone for example the link would take us to the zone site, where you can find all relevant information there (and an option to buy). Also the demo idea is not a bad one, providing that there is a demo available (which there isn't in the zone, yet, is there?).

There is. :)

Pumaman

#72
QuoteA semi-related point to all this, there is an issue of fair competition involved. Virtually all AGS games are homemade games by non-professional enthousiastic fans of the genre. Al Emmo in particular is not, because it has a rather large budget and employs professional paid artists. Apples and oranges.

That's a good point. I think in a way people are taking the AGS Awards too seriously these days -- it just started as a bit of fun, after all.

But having said that, if we want it to be fair, is it possible for a free title to compete with a game like Al Emmo?
I'd say yes it is, there are several people in this community who can draw graphics on a par with commerical games; there are people who can make music on a par with commercial games, and so on.

And anyway, when it gets to the voting stage, it's highly likely that more people will have played the free games than the commercial ones, so a free game is likely to win the award anyway, just because of that.



Finally, thanks to SSH for volunteering to do the Awards this year. As the organiser his decision on how to run them is final, but we can of course leave this thread open for further suggestions.

Becky


jetxl

Ah, I thought it was shang-tril-la or something.
I'm the guy who insulted you over the phone at Brittens. Sorry! :'(

Quote from: Pumaman on Thu 05/01/2006 14:09:47
And anyway, when it gets to the voting stage, it's highly likely that more people will have played the free games than the commercial ones, so a free game is likely to win the award anyway, just because of that.
You let it sound as it's a bad thing.

SSH

(in my friend's cybercafe in Santander)

Just to let you know my plans: i hope to get set up a web page where you choose from a list of all 2005's games somehow and use that for nomination, allowing them to be automated somewhat. Nominations and awards will be entirely by pulbic vote if I run the awards. Looks like no-one else is volunteering to do it yet. I haven't read the whole thread in detial yet and will do so when I come back, so keep those suggestions coming for now. And register your 2005 games on the AGS games page if you haven't done already.
12

Vince Twelve

Quote from: SSH on Sun 08/01/2006 20:59:07
Nominations and awards will be entirely by pulbic vote if I run the awards.
D'oh!

If reading the thread in detail doesn't convince you to change your mind and opt for the committee nominations, then I'd suggest at least opening a thread for each category to discuss games that deserve nomination.  Perhaps that might slightly help to allay the "omni-nomination" problem that has plagued the awards in the past.  I just hope that the small quality games that garnered little attention will have an equal chance at being nominated for the awards that they deserve.

That being said, thanks for volunteering!  I'm sure everyone will respect any decisions you make regarding the awards.

Snarky

Yes, I have to say I'm a bit puzzled by that choice, too. It seems like we have something very much like a unanimous consensus for the idea of having a panel pick the final nominees, so I don't see why you would decide to do it a different way.

Good luck with the awards, anyway!

Radiant

Quote from: SSH on Sun 08/01/2006 20:59:07
Nominations and awards will be entirely by pulbic vote if I run the awards. Looks like no-one else is volunteering to do it yet.

Excuse me if I understood this wrong....
I think you're saying that because it's a lot of work to select nominations, you'd like some volunteers to help you - and since there haven't been any so far you'll have to go with voting instead. That sounds reasonable.
So, any volunteers?
I'd be happy to volunteer myself but it may be better if some people helped who were involved in or at least following last year's award more closely than I have.

Nikolas

I would also be happy to volunteer for the comitee that hasto do with music. If this is what we're talking about, as long as I can do it after the 22nd of Jan, when I go back to London...

Pet Terry

Quote from: Nikolas on Mon 09/01/2006 15:34:14
I would also be happy to volunteer for the comitee that hasto do with music.

I'm up for this as well (+ best sound), if you decide to have a committee.
<SSH> heavy pettering
Screen 7

Erenan

Quote from: Radiant on Mon 09/01/2006 10:49:27
I think you're saying that because it's a lot of work to select nominations, you'd like some volunteers to help you - and since there haven't been any so far you'll have to go with voting instead.
I think he was just saying that no one else was volunteering to run the awards.
The Bunker

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

If SSH is going to run it I say let him run it the way he wants.  It's all a bit of fun, as CJ said- try to keep that in mind when you begin getting upset because someone doesn't share your view with how a contest - which is supposed to be a fun way to reward providers of adventure games- should be handled.  Now, as to my view on it...

[my opinion]
Personally, I think anyone that makes a game people enjoy (and especially for free) is a winner, since they took the time to put together something for someone else to enjoy - but that's just my opinion.  If anything, I think the distribution of awards has a tendency to upset entrants who did not win anything, since they may feel rather left out.  It's a natural feeling, especially if you're paired against a particularly high-profile game (I'll use the Al Emmo vs. single developer notion).  I wouldn't expect anyone to vote for a lower quality game just because it was made by one person, but at the same time there's an issue of what should we expect from a commercial project or one with several team members vs. a small to one-person project.  I know my expectations differ by the scope of the project and size of the team.  Perhaps games should be more carefully categorized to lessen this problem. 
[/my opinion]

AlbinoPanther

ProgZmax you are 100% right.

But this award thingy is a great fun so let SSH do it on his way.

We are hardly waiting for it ;D

Radiant

Just a random suggestion, but maybe we should list runners-up as well for the larger categories, especially if they're close. That's why the olympic games have silver medals, no?

SSH

OK, so I hereby take posession of the Awards as no-one else has claimed them and I shall also try to do the FOREGOs at the same time, so that we can get everything in one place. I shall try and put together a list of all the categories, etc. However, meantime, I'd like to narrow down the eligible games. I shall not consider any games that are not in the games page already and this list: http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/games.php?action=digest&sortby=3&sortdir=1&startfrom=0 shall be definitive, with Christmas Quest being the last eligible game of 2005.

Meanwhile, I will start a "For your consideration" thread which can hopefully be stickied and people can post moderately-sized adverts for their games there.
12

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk