Planning for awards season

[Vel]

I personally consider last year's categories to be just fine. And will there be no lifetime achievement award this year? I think there should be one.

And while we're at it, I entirely support SSH for running the awards - he has shown immense reliability, and it would be nice to have the awards earlier than April this year.

[mwahahaha]

Yeh, nice list jet, but what about story and script?  They're important aspects of any adventure game, and not really confined to just comedy and horror.

Charaters are fine, but not really a summary for the whole story.

Otherwise, nice list!

[Redwall]

Yeah, the "Dialogue" category was always a neat one IMO. A "Plot" category wouldn't be too bad either. I understand the intentions behind the serious/comedy distinction but I'm not sure it really works as stated.

[edmundito]

A new category for short game should be added... not because I made a short game myself, but a lot of other people did, too. I don't think it's fair that a short game competes with a med/full-length game.

[simulacra]

jet: I know that these things aren't very common, but perhaps they would become more common if these things were endorsed?

mordalles: Perhaps video should be bundled into the animation category? Not so that I'd win the category (I sincerely believe that the video isn't good enough for that), but not to exclude it since I'd like to see more video in games.

[Vince Twelve]

I hope the P3n1s award isn't making crappy games more common...

I'd hope that people would include videos and voices in their games because they would improve the game experience, not because they want to win an award.  That being said, I'm not against it, in fact I think an award for voice acting might be good.  I just think that's not necessarily a good reason for an award. 

Again, I think the categories that have been used for the last few years are adequate.  Here are last years categories with my few suggestions bolded.

Overall award: Best game

Graphics awards: Best character art, Best background art, Best Animation

Sound awards: Best music, Best sound effects, (Perhaps Best Voice Acting should be considered)

Story awards: Best story, Best dialogs (writing), Best player character, Best supporting character

Game design awards: Best gameplay, Best puzzles (though I think this MIGHT be combined with gameplay), Best scripting (programming)

Other: Best documentation, Best Utility/Application, Best Hour game (though I suggest Best Hour Game get scrapped in favor of Best Demo or Best Short Game, or both!), Best Non-Adventure Game, P3N1S Award, Lifetime achievement

Edit:  I'm aware that some people don't think innovation is so important to the amature adventure scene, but I am not one of those people.  I would like to see a "Most Innovative" award added to the list.

[Nikolas]

I do feel rather thick sometimes, but in the end, how is this thing going to work? I mean Andails proposal had to do with different people deciding on which games to nominate for each category and then voting... Is this still the case?

[Vince Twelve]

The idea, I believe, is that a small committee of knowledgeable people choose the most appropriate five(ish) "nominees" from the list of games released that year.  This prevents the problem we've had in the past of popular games getting nominated for every category regardless of whether they actually deserve a nomination above other less popular games.

The list of nominees is voted on by the entire community just as it has been every year previously and the winner is chosen by popular vote.

[jetxl]

I'm happy that we have a discussion about the awards.
Last year was chaos. Way too many categories. Poor Pesty.

I'm afraid that if Best Game, Best Story, Best Plot and Best Dialog have their own category, some people will just copy-paste 'Stargate' in every one of them. We want to give the good games their awards but stop omni-voting as well. Less categories with a lot of difference between them will force people to thing longer about their votes, and let one award mean something more.

-Edmundo- Did you add your game in the database? You could have added it under 'Joke game'...

This was my idea for the nomination.
Jury members are selected.

SSH, because he is a scottish super hero, nuf said.
AGA, because he has computer hacking skills.
Rui Pires, because he collects all the games.
Joyce,
jane,
Rosie,
Ida,
sunshinegold, these people pritty much run the hintip forum. They played and finished at least half of all the ags games out there.
[other rightfull members who know, played and finished a lot of ags games]

The jury members nominate games for every category by selecting the games they think deserves an award.
They can add as much games as they see fit.
The lists are merged into one big list, where the common folk can vote on the games by selecting one game in each category.
The game with the most awards wins the Best Game award.
The moderators can argue about who wins the lifetime achiefment award.

pros:

Simple, not chaotic.
Jury doesn't have to argue with eachother.
Members only have to vote once.
Experts chose the games, but the members still deside the final vote.
The nominated games are very good games.
Omni-voting is for a part stopped.

If a certan game isn't nominated, it's because it didn't made an impression on any of the jury members. The same thing would have happened in the old system, but on a larger scale.

[scourge]

character art and background art can't be grouped together. Its not the same at all.

[jetxl]

character art and background art can't be grouped together. Its not the same at all.

You are correct.
Maybe merge character art with animation?

[Vince Twelve]

Jet, having fewer but more generalized awards and having a jury decide on the nominations are two solutions to the same problem.  I see no reason to implement both of them.  I feel that your suggestions change the AGS awards far more than they need to be changed and I see that as a potentially bad thing.

I believe that the chaotic part about last year, and Pesty can correct me if I'm wrong, was the nominations process.  Having everyone write in their nominations and then having to tally all of them was an insanely difficult undertaking for her.  Of course reducing the number of categories would have helped, but I believe the heart of the problem lies in the nominations process.

I feel that your generalized categories are over-generalized.  Story and plot ARE the same thing, or at least close enough, which is why there are not two separate awards.  Story and dialog, however, are completely different things.  For example, while I enjoyed the story of Cirque de Zale, I wouldn't have put it in my top five games in terms of plot.  I WOULD, however, hand it the award for best dialogs without a second thought.  The quality of the script was head and shoulders above any other that year, in my opinion, while the story was... just good.

I also disagree with the idea that the game with the most other awards be awarded the "Game of the Year" award.  This is assuming that a game is the sum of its parts, specifically: a game is the sum of the parts as defined by our award categories.  One game may do everything superbly (graphics, music, gameplay, story, etc.), making an amazing game experience, but then another game with slightly better graphics and music but crappy gameplay and plot could steal the GotY award.  For example Yahtzee's games are always fantastic, but while his graphics are good, they're not going to win awards, and his music is all ripped.  Sometimes the best game of the year is going to be a game of great consistency that does everything well, but nothing best.  If you are going to assume that a game is worth the number of awards it wins, you'd better make sure you have enough categories that are specific and comprehensive, not generalized and abbreviated.

Those are my (really long) two cents.  I hope you can see where I'm coming from.

Having a jury of a few people select the nominees clears up "omni-nominations" and lowers the burden placed upon the awards runner and I agree that it's a good idea.  How to select this jury (or juries if you want to have different people with different specialties choose the different categories' nominees) I guess should be up to the awards runner.  The final vote is, as it should be, left up to the fickle public.

EDIT:

* Vince Twelve waits for someone to make us all feel stupid by saying "Geez guys, the awards are just a little bit of fun... stop taking it so serious."

More awards = more fun, right?

[Snarky]

I think I prefer Andail's process to what Jet is suggesting...

There are a few things we need to consider:

• Should we have one committee to nominate all the categories, or separate committees for each category? If the latter, can the same person serve on different committees? If so, on how many? (It seems like you'd need different people to judge things like best music and things like best scripting.)
  
• How do we deal with commercial games? That fewer people have played them isn't necessarily a problem, but do we require everyone on the committee to buy them?
  
• What about non-English games? I'm thinking especially of the numerous Maniac Mansion Mania games, most of which are only available in German.
  
• I would suggest a category for Most Original/Creative Game. (On closer examination, I guess Vince already suggested that.)
  

I would also like to suggest Jozef Purdes for the/a committee, if he's up for it. That column he used to run for DIY Games was my de-facto shortlist for the nominations last year.

Finally, I think the categories from last year were mostly good, though it might be good to reduce the number of them somewhat. Personally, I'd suggest getting rid of "Best Animation" (highly correlated with best character art), and maybe change "Best Sound Effects" into a "Best Multimedia" including sound effects, voice acting and video. Possibly merge "Best Gameplay" and "Best Puzzles".

[jetxl]

I think that we have to keep it serious to get the best solution, Vince. :-)

More awards = more fun. Having 100 categories from best speech font to best sequal is fun? I disagree.
I don't know 5 games with voice action. I haven't played a single non-english game. The people deside which games are best, and if people can't play games because they are commercial then bad luck to the creators. At least they got money to wipe their tears. (Mystery Manor is a piece of shit anyway)
Less categories, however, is more fun, exciting and suprising.

There isn't much difference between wat Andail said and my idea. Apart for skipping the registration, and a different jury for every category, it's the same.

I couldn't find the results of last year, but didn't ToaK won Best Game, Best Dialog and Best Story? Didn't they won most awards as well?


[Teh BIG List of 2005: 168 games]
Principles of Evil: Volume I Divot Design Medium length games 02 Jan 2005
Star Wars Shadows of the Empire: Grap... Death Star Games Demos 05 Jan 2005
Barn Runner 3: Don't Jerk The Trigger... Ponch Non-adventure games 07 Jan 2005
DG: the search of the batteries Robin Gravel Short games 09 Jan 2005
Barn Runner 1: The Armageddon Eclair Ponch Medium length games 14 Jan 2005
Satch's Quest Diego Barutta Joke games 26 Jan 2005
Zooreal Neil Dnuma MAGS games 27 Jan 2005
Mikes Room Candle Short games 28 Jan 2005
Earl Bobby is looking for his shoes Le Woltaire Short games 29 Jan 2005
A Tale In The Zoo Rani Hasan a.k.a.... Short games 31 Jan 2005
Legend of Rovendale part1 Endrews Medium length games 02 Feb 2005
Floyd SB the Company Man Stephen R. Owens Medium length games 02 Feb 2005
Jack Trasheater Chapter I - pain house Massimo Nardelli Short games 03 Feb 2005
Battle Warriors DEMO 3.0 Endrews Non-adventure games 05 Feb 2005
The Princess and all the Kingdom Matthew G. & Tadd H. Short games 07 Feb 2005
Beyond the door Bulrog Medium length games 09 Feb 2005
The Lone Loser PS-Soft Demos 09 Feb 2005
Troopers Tech Beta mamarulez Demos 13 Feb 2005
Catacombic jetxl Medium length games 16 Feb 2005
Supergirl in We Don't Need Another Hero Ronn A. Mann Medium length games 23 Feb 2005
Pixel Hunt SuperScottishHero MAGS games 25 Feb 2005
Hotel Hijinks Pelican MAGS games 25 Feb 2005
Missing since Midnight Maxileen MAGS games 26 Feb 2005
Hit the Freak Hector Montaner Short games 27 Feb 2005
Pester Quest Scummbuddy Joke games 28 Feb 2005
The Majestic Conspiracy demo Tim Hengeveld a.k... Demos 03 Mar 2005
Escape the ship AnInhumer Short games 03 Mar 2005
Ben Jordan: Paranormal Investigator C... Francisco Gonzalez Medium length games 05 Mar 2005
Norbi's quest 2 Pilcz Studios Medium length games 07 Mar 2005
Battle Warriors : Rovendale Tactics (... Endrews Medium length games 07 Mar 2005
IG: Space Adventurer MillsJROSS Short games 08 Mar 2005
Wolf Country (DEMO) aussie Demos 09 Mar 2005
Norbi Winter Special Pilcz Studios Short games 09 Mar 2005
Recess 2 Velislav Ivanov Short games 13 Mar 2005
COP the Game Tuntis Short games 18 Mar 2005
The Draft Drifter Who Dashed Doctor D... Stefan Lohner Medium length games 19 Mar 2005
Inspector Gismoe Gijs Dekker Short games 20 Mar 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania - Episode 1: Sib... LucasFan Games Short games 23 Mar 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania - Episode 4: Mim... DasJan Short games 26 Mar 2005
Frank the Farmhand Part 2 Mattias Jeppsson Full length games 30 Mar 2005
ShortCUT Andy White (FrogM... Short games 03 Apr 2005
Lassi & Roger: Meet the God jannar85 Short games 03 Apr 2005
Robotragedy Pijin Pastrana Full length games 03 Apr 2005
Asap Adventure [stripped] jannar85 Short games 03 Apr 2005
Fasmo gonzo29 Short games 06 Apr 2005
Proxecto Percebe (DEMO) Alejandro Fandiño Demos 06 Apr 2005
Great Stroke Off!, The Barbarian Full length games 07 Apr 2005
7th Sense, The Abisso Short games 07 Apr 2005
Lifeboat: Story of Cedrick: The Direc... OsUltimo Short games 10 Apr 2005
Stan's Revenge Nethros Joke games 10 Apr 2005
Ahmet's AGS Fight Game (with Source C... CoolBlue-Gord10 Non-adventure games 13 Apr 2005
Hero Of Infamous Kingdoms Silver Sphinx Stu... Joke games 16 Apr 2005
Simpsons Adventure Game Joseph DiPerla Demos 21 Apr 2005
Knight's Quest IV - Here Today, Gone ... Frequentor Medium length games 24 Apr 2005
Elevator, The Barbarian Short games 24 Apr 2005
PONG mamarulez Non-adventure games 02 May 2005
The Young Gabriel King Chronicles Steve McCrea Short games 04 May 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania Episode 8 - 'The... hansa_export Medium length games 04 May 2005
James Peris es el agente 00,5 Oriol Roselló Full length games 06 May 2005
The Medical Theories of Dr. Kur R. Higgins Medium length games 06 May 2005
Silent Knight - Chapter 1 : The Medio... Niels H. Sørensen Medium length games 07 May 2005
Where's M' Hat Ma ? Wretched MAGS games 08 May 2005
Detention! Stuart Lowndes Short games 08 May 2005
Saturday School Edmundo Ruiz Short games 08 May 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania Episode 15: Plac... Problem Short games 09 May 2005
Ben Jordan: Paranormal Warrior Within... Edmundo Ruiz Joke games 10 May 2005
Secrets Of sultan Kanuni proximity Medium length games 10 May 2005
Invincible Island Remake Andy Mason Medium length games 13 May 2005
Line Game gonzo29 Non-adventure games 16 May 2005
The Quest To Zooloo - Full Talkie Yotam Elal Full length games 16 May 2005
Duke Stanley: National Hero IN The 30... DontTreadOnMe Short games 22 May 2005
The Bar Niels H. Sørensen Short games 26 May 2005
Aswin's Dream Coffeesoft - Aswin Short games 27 May 2005
Unfinished Tales Julián Zorzeón Short games 28 May 2005
Starship Caramba Boris Zdero (AKA ... MAGS games 29 May 2005
Apprentice 1 Deluxe Herculean Effort ... Medium length games 29 May 2005
The Zero Hero Magintz Demos 17 Jun 2005
Long expected Friday- small fixes cp Medium length games 18 Jun 2005
Spacewar( episode 1 the crystal) Sameera Wijesundera Short games 20 Jun 2005
Rapstar 1.5 proximity Non-adventure games 20 Jun 2005
Shemwood Plains IdiotBox Medium length games 22 Jun 2005
Valis - !!! Updated Demo !!! V1.10 Willy Picard Demos 25 Jun 2005
The Bunker Erenan MAGS games 27 Jun 2005
Spacewar episode 2 ( Curien strikes b... Sameera Wijesundera Medium length games 29 Jun 2005
Bear Story v1.3 IceMan Short games 03 Jul 2005
Aazor: The Life of a Demon - Part I: ... Ben Roberts Short games 09 Jul 2005
Da New Guys IceMan Medium length games 13 Jul 2005
Walters Astroid Gurki Medium length games 23 Jul 2005
Da New Guys: Day of the Jackass IceMan Demos 24 Jul 2005
Jessica Plunkenstein and the Düssseld... Greg Edwards Full length games 25 Jul 2005
Pennis: The Ultimate in Pong! OsUltimo Non-adventure games 27 Jul 2005
Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulo... Yahtzee Medium length games 27 Jul 2005
Belusebius Arrival Djokic Bojan DJOK... Short games 28 Jul 2005
Unfinished bluber MAGS games 30 Jul 2005
PiXiA: Rainbow of Havoc Alias MAGS games 31 Jul 2005
Laura Bow in: The Road to Murder gamecourier Short games 01 Aug 2005
Guy Slug: Private Eye RoboPenguin Short games 03 Aug 2005
He's Gone Historical (Calacver) calacver Medium length games 03 Aug 2005
One Bradley Walker Non-adventure games 04 Aug 2005
Alone in the Night AJA Short games 05 Aug 2005
Vitlausi leikurinn Fribbi Short games 05 Aug 2005
The Black Sky Fribbi Short games 09 Aug 2005
Noisy Mountain Fightmeyer Medium length games 11 Aug 2005
RoN-The Outbreak Djokic Bojan Djok... Short games 14 Aug 2005
Labyrinth Akumayo Non-adventure games 15 Aug 2005
Chick Chaser aussie Full length games 17 Aug 2005
Emily Enough: Imprisoned Logan Medium length games 18 Aug 2005
The Oracle Eugene Couto Demos 22 Aug 2005
Knight's Quest III - Tides of Merania Frequentor Medium length games 25 Aug 2005
Magsic Wretched MAGS games 26 Aug 2005
Anna Vince Twelve Short games 26 Aug 2005
Buna Wants Beer Aapeli Kutila MAGS games 26 Aug 2005
C.U.T.E. The Marvellous Adventures of... SuperScottishHero Short games 30 Aug 2005
ESPER: The Town on the Edge of Darkness Cal Souza Short games 31 Aug 2005
Otaku Rivals calacver Medium length games 31 Aug 2005
Into The Light etchersquaredgames Short games 31 Aug 2005
Return to Civilization misterskipperdoo Medium length games 03 Sep 2005
Maniac Mansion Mania - Episode 9 - ra... Rocco Medium length games 05 Sep 2005
Magsic II Wretched Medium length games 06 Sep 2005
Soviet Unterzögersdorf monochrom, cccp.at Full length games 06 Sep 2005
Frog Island Audunsoft Short games 06 Sep 2005
Horror Hospital Incomplete Demo Redrum89 Demos 07 Sep 2005
The Dark Trial Pilcz Studios Demos 11 Sep 2005
Alien Time Zone Babar Short games 19 Sep 2005
Mordy: On Holiday Mordalles Medium length games 20 Sep 2005
Chalk's Quest Aapeli Kutila Joke games 26 Sep 2005
La Gran Castanya Arnau Bernat Full length games 27 Sep 2005
Crave Wretched MAGS games 28 Sep 2005
1 MIssing In Action foz Non-adventure games 30 Sep 2005
Slug Princess Wretched Short games 01 Oct 2005
Power Unlimited boardgame jetxl Non-adventure games 07 Oct 2005
No, I Am Spartacus! OsUltimo Short games 14 Oct 2005
Silent Knight: Chapter 2 - The Consci... Niels H. Sørensen Medium length games 16 Oct 2005
Force majeure II: The Zone Leo Nordwall Full length games 17 Oct 2005
Goose Quest 1 DEMO King_Nipper Demos 20 Oct 2005
Adventure Game Demo Thomas VoàŸ Demos 23 Oct 2005
Dance Til' You Drop! ProgZmax Medium length games 24 Oct 2005
Stargate Adventure Sektor 13 Medium length games 29 Oct 2005
Zugzwang Wretched MAGS games 29 Oct 2005
Domestic Conspiracy Demo Vince Twelve Demos 30 Oct 2005
Dark of Night Barbarian Short games 30 Oct 2005
Deflus Technical Demo Ralph & Aapeli Demos 30 Oct 2005
Bunny Quest Wretched Joke games 31 Oct 2005
Legend of Rovendale 2 Mystic Island Endrews Full length games 03 Nov 2005
Class Notes juasma Short games 06 Nov 2005
Lost In The Nightmare v1.1 CoolBlue-Gord10 Medium length games 07 Nov 2005
The Winter Rose BaRoN Medium length games 09 Nov 2005
Prodigal Trisk Full length games 09 Nov 2005
Operation Novi He-Man Non-adventure games 21 Nov 2005
Mind's Eye ProgZmax Full length games 22 Nov 2005
Bob Goes Home mozza Short games 23 Nov 2005
Hell's Satans mozza Non-adventure games 23 Nov 2005
MOTLPAA Radiant Non-adventure games 24 Nov 2005
The Paramecium Complex BaRoN MAGS games 26 Nov 2005
Javelin Catch Erenan Joke games 27 Nov 2005
Legends Of Mardaram Orange Medium length games 06 Dec 2005
META Radiant Short games 08 Dec 2005
A walk in da tomb Pmdee Short games 09 Dec 2005
AS Racing Manager Endrews Medium length games 12 Dec 2005
Princess Marian VIII: Snowfight SuperScottishHero Non-adventure games 16 Dec 2005
Der verschwundene Husky Timo Becker Medium length games 17 Dec 2005
EXIT Willy Damuz Short games 18 Dec 2005
AGS Chess! Akumayo Non-adventure games 22 Dec 2005
Elf Motors Inc. Erenan MAGS games 24 Dec 2005
A Knight's Pursuit I buloght Short games 24 Dec 2005
ELFO:Rescue Craby DarkArcangel MAGS games 24 Dec 2005
Cedric and the Revolution Bernie MAGS games 24 Dec 2005
1213 Episode I Yahtzee Medium length games 30 Dec 2005

[Andail]

Thanks for your huge efforts, Jet, but we have just decided to give Becky all the awards this year.

This saved a lot of time, didn't it?

[jetxl]

Who is Becky?

[Helm]

Becky is one of my female slaves.

[Mordalles]

snarky, you CANT merge animation with character art. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!! there is such a big difference between the 2! come on, now.

i cant believe you even suggested it.  :o

[Snarky]

snarky, you CANT merge animation with character art. THAT IS TOTALLY WRONG!! there is such a big difference between the 2! come on, now.

i cant believe you even suggested it.Ã,  :o

Chill. I realize that they are different in theory, but I think in practice the games that have good character art have good animations, and vice versa. Last year the list of nominations for the two categories were nearly identical (which admittedly was true for many of the categories).

I don't know 5 games with voice action. I haven't played a single non-english game.

No, neither have I... because I don't speak German, Finnish, Hebrew, Italian, or most of the other languages that AGS games were made in last year (wasn't there even a foreign language MAGS?). However, I know that some of these games look good. Like maybe they deserve an award. But if the committee can't play them because they don't understand the language, they can't nominate them. I think that's a problem.

One solution would be to have a "Best Non-English Game" category and put together a multi-lingual jury. Or we could restrict the competition to only English games (since the forums are restricted to English). Or we could team up with adventure game communities from other language zones, and let them deal with the non-English titles. Or we could ignore the problem and hope no one notices the discrimination.

As for voice acting, that's kind of why I suggested a Multimedia category, to bundle together all kinds of bells and whistles that are rare, but are found in some games.

The people deside which games are best, and if people can't play games because they are commercial then bad luck to the creators. At least they got money to wipe their tears. (Mystery Manor is a piece of shit anyway)

That's not the point. Commercial games certainly have less chance of winning if fewer people have played them. Never mind that. That's their problem, and the same is true of free games that few people have played. The point is that with a jury system for nominations, they can't even be nominated, because we can't demand (can we?) that the committee buy all of the games. Take a game like The Zone (which I bought but haven't played yet), which looks like a plausible contender for some of the awards. Is it excluded from the contest because it's not available for free? That doesn't seem very fair to me. Especially since 2006 will probably see Al Emmo published, by the looks of it the most professional AGS game produced yet. If that isn't eligible for next year's awards, it'll make the AGS Awards a joke.

There isn't much difference between wat Andail said and my idea. Apart for skipping the registration, and a different jury for every category, it's the same.

I think the differences are for the worse, along with your new categories and choosing the Game of the Year on the basis of the most awards.

[Pumaman]

Commercial games certainly have less chance of winning if fewer people have played them. Never mind that. That's their problem, and the same is true of free games that few people have played. The point is that with a jury system for nominations, they can't even be nominated, because we can't demand (can we?) that the committee buy all of the games. Take a game like The Zone (which I bought but haven't played yet), which looks like a plausible contender for some of the awards. Is it excluded from the contest because it's not available for free? That doesn't seem very fair to me. Especially since 2006 will probably see Al Emmo published, by the looks of it the most professional AGS game produced yet. If that isn't eligible for next year's awards, it'll make the AGS Awards a joke.

While we're on the topic, should commercial games be permitted on the AGS Games Page? Currently games must have a "Download" link and it doesn't cater for a "Buy Now" link or something like that instead. Is this something we should provide, or should the Games Page continue to cater for free games only?