1213 (Episode 1) - by Yahtzee

Started by , Thu 29/12/2005 23:46:45

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MrColossal

His girlfriend read the thread and responded so I assumed he heard of it too, if more people than me suggested changing the painting in the game and adding footstep sounds then that's fine, but it's just annoying when it appears he took a lot of our suggestions to heart but because we're AGSers we don't deserve a thanks or a mention... But whatever... Just the feeling I get.

I made the suggestions to improve the game, obviously, but this is the AGS forums, we're friendly here.

Oh final thing about the new game, c'mon man! You're Yahtzee, you can get someone to make custom music for your games, leave RPGmaker alone and get yourself a musician, it would help loads in my opinion.

Eric
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

Vince Twelve

Quote from: SteveMcCrea on Tue 03/01/2006 00:26:38
It's a shame there wasn't some way to skip the text boxes, as they really slowed down the gameplay.

press "enter"

Kweepa

Quote from: MrColossal on Tue 03/01/2006 01:00:42
I made the suggestions to improve the game, obviously, but this is the AGS forums, we're friendly here.

Yes we are!
Yahtzee has given a lot and I don't think there's any need to give him a hard time just because he doesn't post on these forums any more.

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Tue 03/01/2006 01:02:10
press "enter"

Doh! Cheers!
Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

MrColossal

That's not why I wrote what I wrote. I don't care if he doesn't post here or not, I never said that was my reason for offering no review.

Whatever, who cares, bring on chapter 2.
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

Helm

Played a little. Flashback and Out of this World are two of my all-time faves so it was exciting to see something similar done in ags.

This is generally good, although one big cliche as it seems, story-wise. The colours are gray. Maybe not the best idea to travel through a gray game, really. Respawning enemies aren't nice, any way you cut it. Just make the firefights a bit more dangerous and skill-based ( instead of buttonmashers) and have the enemies stay dead.

The controls are mostly responsive, for ags action game no less. It's a bit silly you can't just walk off a ledge ( to death or safety, whatever ) and a running option would have been a must for a flashback clone.

The adventure-lite elements are a bit too lite for my tastes, and even flashback had a proper inventory to prevent needless backtracking. It's a way to prolong gameplay time, but if an early speedrun is 12 minutes and 5 of them are backtracking... we're not talking commercial quality length anyway so why bother with irritating the player?

After the 'oh wow, this is like flashback! and it's made in ags!' effect wears out, the game's respectable but predictable, polished but unexciting. Haven't finished it yet though, maybe it'll get much better later on.
WINTERKILL

jetlag

Oddly enough, I liked the respawning and random hits. It keeps you on your on your toes yet at the same time you know what to expect. Especially the random shots are cleverly thought of. The enemy might die at the first shot but it could also take 10 shots. You'll really start to slam your keyboard if a zombie comes close.

I can see why you have to run back through the levels again, since ags doens't use sprite sets, but real backgrounds with a lot more work and love into them. It would be a shame if you would see a background only for 8 seconds.

I have a speedrun of 12:23. I'm not going to upload so you have to take my word. It would be very symbolic if I could cut exactly 10 seconds off, but with every record, there are less mistakes. I doubt it can be done under 12 minutes flat.

esper

I watched the "12:48: speedrun, and found it interesting that AGS has a weird clock. When the game dislplayed that you had beaten it in twelve minutes and forty-eight seconds, the timer on WinAmp was displaying 12:24.
This Space Left Blank Intentionally.

Elliott Hird

Quote from: jetlag on Sat 07/01/2006 18:42:35I have a speedrun of 12:23. I'm not going to upload so you have to take my word.
Why not? I'd like to watch it.

Phemar

Esper: Maybe he edited it a bit? Very slight speed-up?

m0ds

Eric, I spoke to Yahtzee about music, but he told me he found RPG Maker music worked well with the moods he was trying to set. He said perhaps in the future. But with what, 3 or 4 of his titles now using RPG Maker I'm not sure he has any plans to budge. As a player, I do feel a little dissapointed knowing the musical touch hasn't been created specifically for the game. In fact, as a musician I feel exactly the same way.

Sinister

Haha.. great game Yahtzee..

You gotta give it to him Yahtzee loves blood. I had a blast playing it. I hope to see more of your work.

Kinoko

Quote from: Vince Twelve on Sat 31/12/2005 06:42:05
2) From a usability standpoint, the controls are a bit wonky.  It wouldn't be too hard to alloaw the player to customise the controls.  (see Kinoko's GoA demo) 

Sorry to jump in off-topic, but were you implying my game -does- allow control customisation or doesn't? 'Cause some people complained about that, but the feature was always there, I don't think I explained it well enough though. Anyway, if the former, thankyou :P

As for Yahtzee's new game, a big YAY from me!! Always, always happy to see something new from the guy who seduced me over to AGS in the first place (with good ol' O. Kent). I'll be getting this after work.

Vince Twelve

That was intended as an example of a game that -does- have that feature!!!

And I was one of the people who complained about it not being an option in your game until you pointed out that it was...  :-[  teh heh...

Kinoko

#33
Cool :D You rock then!

EDIT: Just finished the chapter. Aside from the things people have already brought up (not being able to run (though I can see the reasoning, the guy's sickly), guard respawning as you jump over that one ledge, etc), it was thoroughly impressive. I don't care if it's not an entirely original idea, it was done in a slightly different way and was really fun. I was wondering what on earth was going on with the facility, what would happen when you met that awful hulking beast in the gym... when the music stopped and all I could hear was the heart beat in levels 1-9, I had to turn the TV on to alleviate the creepiness. That's something I -always- end up doing in Yahtzee's games though (well, lately. Wasn't so creeped out with O. K.)

I give it two thumbs up, anyway ^_^

jackdark

#34
Yes 1213 does seem Flashback derivative; it's also a tad like Another World (aka Out Of This World), and maybe a little Prince Of Persia too.  Nothing wrong with that.  But really, actually what it really, really reminds me of is onEscapee.  Like, a lot.

Overall, 1213 does play fairly responsively, considering it's an AGS title using a system meant for adventure games. Yahtzee seems all for finding new and weird ways to bend an engine to do stuff it wasn't really meant to do (maybe you should have a look at GameMaker sometime for action games Mr. Croshaw).  As such, there are a few things about the game control wise that suffer due to being made with an engine that wasn't designed for this sort of meme.

It works half-decently, though, so on to other more important things...

The first thing that strikes me about 1213 is that the graphics are very very bland... uninspiring. Vapid. Sad, really considering that Yahtzee has made good/great graphics in the past (7 Days A Skeptic anybody?). It seems with each new release however, that his graphics get blander and blander... I understand this expedites the development process, but it also takes away from the enjoyment and immersion factor. I hope this trend in his work stops or we'll be probably be playing a Yahtzee interactive fiction next. :P

Of even greater concern, it feels like Ben's games are becoming more and more boring... and I never thought I'd say that about a Yahtzee title. I ate 5 Days A Stranger Alive, and 7 Days A Skeptic I devoured, both class "A" freeware games.  Even his older games before those were decent to good, (like Rob and Odysseus Kent) all well worth your time to explore.

But the game after the "Days" series, the Elite/Space Quest hybrid "Adventures in the Galaxy of Fantabulous Wonderment" bored me so much I quit after 30 minutes. I just could -not- get into it.  Sitting around in a non-responsive, non-spontaneous cockpit mucking about a grid managing a whopping four resources... uck.  Look, you just don't make Privateer out of AGS... it doesn't lend itself to the genre in such a manner.  Or if you do, you don't make space (and space combat) so vacuously insipid.

Anyway, back to 1213, I think I made it through about 20 minutes with this game until I was yawning to tears. For someone who seems to take great pleasure in pointing out all the things that are wrong in games in the columns he's written for "Adventure Gamer Underground" webzine, ( Common Adventure Game Design Flaw series), Ben sure can be a hypocrite.

Examples of really bad game design in 1213 (or why I quit after 20 minutes) in no particular order:

1213 constantly tries to stay "realistic" for immersion purposes... yet, you gain health back by taking showers... what?  A nice rinse cures bullet wounds?! Um, howabout some sort of MediDroid system (it's the future right)?  Or couldn't I at least just find a medpack on the wall?  That's possible considering you've escaped into areas you're not usually meant to go... and the guards would have emergency medkit stations, wouldn't they? No... let's use the "magic happy shower" because that not only makes sense(?) it also guarantees ubiquity.  Stupid ubiquity.

Exremely annoying... when you drop from a ledge guards starting shooting you before you even touch the floor... by the time I drop from a ledge, turn around to face the guard, and fire... I've already taken 2-3 shots.

And then shooting... geez, how long do I have to hold down the TAB button and fire before I actually hit a guard? And why doesn't the distance have any relation to the chance of hitting a guard with a bullet?  Is the probability factor determined by a 1D300?!

Why can't I dodge bullets -somehow-... you can do this in a 2-D game of this design, have you never played Blackthorne, Ben?  In Blackthorne you could "lean into the shadows", or in this game's case, lean against the wall.  Something.  Ducking doesn't help much.  Out Of This World had the energy barrier for a reason... Flashback had the rechargeable shield for a reason.  That reason is that standing there getting shot with no defense capabilities sucks the fun right of combat.

WHY do the guards resurrect? Would it be soooo hard to give their existence a variable?!  Another example of rushed development that only serves to make the game "less fun" and "more infuriating".

And the TEXT speed is horrible, I found myself constantly just "waiting and waiting and waiting" for the paragraphs of story to go away so I could just PLAY THE GAME. If you're going to drown us in paragraphs of "suspension of disbelief fodder" (where every character is the exact same snide one-liner spouter aka the game's creator), at -least- let the player control how quickly they chew it.

Last of all the music is completely uninspired, tepid, and annoyingly repetitious. I understand Ben's not a musician, but there -are- decent freeware MIDIs all over the net. Instead of using music that came from a fantasy role playing game creation kit, why not find some music that has a dark techno-electro edge to it? That would actually fit the atmosphere that 1213 goes for... not Final Fantasy dirges.  Underestimating the value of good proper atmoshperic game music is a very common game design flaw, so remember that for your next article Ben.

The sound effects were thin too, but I'll let that go... except for one thing.  Why the #@$)?! must I constantly listen to that STUPID HEARTBEAT?  If you're gonna use the "audible player heartbeat" at least only use it when the player's life is almost nil.  At least then it actually enhances the game's suspense, instead of the game's annoyance factor.

Look... there -might- be a good game 30 minutes into 1213. But when you spend the first 20 minutes being constantly -annoyed-, you, as a player (me as a player), may find yourself like I did feeling completely unable to reach that juicy nugget in the center of a sour stale slimey badly designed mess.

Maybe I seem a little harsh saying all this, but Ben fancies himself somewhat of a "diety among men" in game design, hence his Adventure Gamer Underground articles and his oft-arrogant website. In that regard, one would expect great things indeed from the man who brought us the fantasic Days series. Instead, it seems said man is content to be hypocritical and worst of all, lethargic. Ben is just -not- pushing himself, he has -talent- undeniably, but to waste it on half-baked ideas will not garner a good review from this gamer.

esper

We now end this episode of "sub-par game maker whose never actually made a game in his life ranting endlessly and poking fun of one of the most respected AGS game authors ever just to satisfy his desire to feel like he's writing in a big gaming magazine rather than on a public forum" and return you to your normally scheduled programming...
This Space Left Blank Intentionally.

Nikolas

EDIT: Oops, double posting and I have an internet connection that sucks. So sorry about that... Resaying a little bit but going on...

Well, esper, he does have the right to do that... (where did I see that?). It is a public forum, and actually I find his critic, a little harsh and rude maybe but never the less truthfull. And I do believe that a good critic should be one such as this that doesn't spare you the truth no matter how much it hurts...

I also quit after half an hours playing, and only because I couldn't actually move from the second screen where you have to jump. It took me 10 minutes to find the correct spot to jump and grab on the rail. Not to mention the sensor and the door and all the other things that I actually spent a lot of time (which is rather bizarre to have for the first 5 screens of a game)... Well, but anyways it is very exciting to see tha AGS can do these things! Amazing indeed!

Phemar

Actually I could wholeheartedly agree with Jackdark on most of his points, esper. His points are valid and make a lot of sense. I would've reviewed it pretty much the same, I know perhaps I can't do better, but Yahtzee has sort-of set a standard for himself.

Grapics -- Bland, very boring.
Music -- Repetitive (The same track from the 'days' series?)
Walking Speed -- Annoying.
And that really annoying heartbeat? Eurgh.

Overall I didn't really enjoy this game a lot.

jackdark

Quote from: esper on Sun 15/01/2006 07:12:53
We now end this episode of "sub-par game maker whose never actually made a game in his life ranting endlessly and poking fun of one of the most respected AGS game authors ever just to satisfy his desire to feel like he's writing in a big gaming magazine rather than on a public forum" and return you to your normally scheduled programming...

I said I respected Ben's earlier work, and that he has undeniable talent.  It would pay to read more closely before berating one for constructive criticism.  Can the great "Yahtzee" do no wrong?  Hardly, as evidenced.  Also, the only need I wish to satisfy is to shake Yahtzee up enough to realize he needs to change a few things for 1213 episode 2 to actually be a good game.

Kinoko

I would say that though you make some valid points, my problem with that stuff you spouted it up there is that you obviously have a real personal problem with this game/Yahtzee for whatever reason and you're sounding like quite the jerk as a result. It's one thing to give honest criticism but I was quite shocked at how pompous and mean-spirited that came off as.

Your comments like "Can the great Yahtzee do no wrong?" just sound plain childish. If a few people here treat him like a bit of a gaming-god, what do you care? You don't need to be the anti-Yahtzee to try and shake him up. I've done this sort of childish thing plenty of times myself to recognise it in others.

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