Background of a Bedroom...

[Grapefruitologist]

Ok, so this is the first background I've drawn. My mom says that perspective is wrong, but I can't really see it. Keep in mind that I've painted this whole thing in Paint. (I've tried other programs, but I've been using Paint for years and the others seem really complicated to me-besides the fact that they're free demos and probably aren't the best)
You are VERY welcome to edit, redraw, paint over, whatever you call it, the picture.

Now to give you a short little tour of the room...
This is a teenage boy's room. The room is for a game about a boy who dumps his girlfriend, and the next morning they switch places. The rest of the game is about his girlfriend who then ruins his life.
So, there's supposed to be a lot of stuff in here-a guitar, a computer, a fishbowl, a bag of MnM's and maybe some other stuff.
Another problem is that I was planning to make the characters small, like in Monkey Island 1. In one of the scenes, I have to make it like that, because I drew a wolf that is no bigger than an inch long. So what do I do in this case? Shrinking it distorts it sometimes, and then I'd have a lot of black around the background...

[Helm]

I say change nothing. Retain this sort of thing for the whole game. DO NOT learn to draw in perspective. This is a very potent effect you've got going here, in my opinion.

[Grapefruitologist]

Oh, but what a mess! Look at the bed, the bed isn't even made! And the walls... such an ugly grey color! This whole room is a mess! Somebody has to clean it up right this moment! Heh, j/k
But really... The carpet is very detailed, where as the walls are just a solid color. Same goes with the bed... there's no blanket on it, either. And, one side has a black outline where the other doesn't. (Wow. I'm desperate, I'm criticizing my OWN artwork)
I better go back and do an hour-long redraw.

[Helm]

I don't know in how many ways can I plead you to not touch this unless it is to add more warped stuff in it! There are times to learn how to do art, this is not one of them. you'll never in your life make a background so potent as this!

[InCreator]

Your mom is SO right. Moms are always right.
Before drawing, go through "tutorials" sticky (in Critics Lounge main page) and learn what "vanishing point system" stands for. And how to use this.

Basically, your room has NO perspective. I drew a quick and dirty pic to show how you should have started, before texturing and coloring > notice how all lines vanish into one point:

[big brother]

While you're at it, InC, you might want to fix the perspective on these pictures, too.

http://www.ibiblio.org/wm/paint/auth/gogh/gogh.chambre-arles.jpg

http://www.acrstudio.com/projects/word/queeringmoma/Matisse_Red_Studio2.jpg

kthanks

[hedgefield]

As artful as it may be, I shudder to think of how walkable areas and scaling are gonna work here...reminds me of the Mystery Vortex in Sam n Max.

[seaduck]

The size of your image is 962x471. That's not very usable for a background. When you start painting a background in Paint, first adjust the image size to something standard. (I'd recommend 320x240, other options: 640x480, 320x200, 640x400)

I recommend 320x240 because
- the aspect ratio is square
- lower resolution = less work + easier work!!

If you don't want to start your background again from scratch, resize it in some program and then paint over it. (thus using it as a sketch)

Moreover, I'd recommend sketching the background a few times before actually starting to draw it. A sketch should only take you a few minutes and only define the most prominent features of the image (perspective, positioning of large objects - doors, windows, bed, etc.)

[Grapefruitologist]

This was a sketch, that I acctually was going to delete, but I decided I might as well try anyway.
So, it did start as a sketch.
I think the size is fine-right now I'm using the MI GUI.
That's what my mom said to do, with the points... but the way she was explaining it was like trying to learn how to clone a frog.
Helm-are you being sarcastic? Because if not... this background is... well, horrible. xD
The perspective dot thing confuses me. I'm gonna try a different technique...

[big brother]

You could always use atmoshperic perspective rather than linear perspective. Atmospheric perspective doesn't even require the use of dots!

[Grapefruitologist]

What is atmospheric perspective?
I was thinking of just copying and pasting the lines that I used to make the door to make everything else, I don't know if that would work or not, but oh well.
Anyway, I was also thinking I could just leave it this way and make it into a joke. When Hailey first comes in the room, she could say, "Hmm. This is just what I imagined Kyle's room to look like."
"The point of view is all wrong. Just like Kyle'a point of view."

[skyfire2]

What is atmospheric perspective?
I was thinking of just copying and pasting the lines that I used to make the door to make everything else, I don't know if that would work or not, but oh well.
Anyway, I was also thinking I could just leave it this way and make it into a joke. When Hailey first comes in the room, she could say, "Hmm. This is just what I imagined Kyle's room to look like."
"The point of view is all wrong. Just like Kyle'a point of view."

i don't think that will work. even if you add the funniest joke the world has ever known, you still need to get the perspective correct so that the video game can be enjoyable.

[Grapefruitologist]

I'm sorry, but comedy is more important to art. In this game, atleast.
Besides, it's only one room, anyway. And I really don't see the difference... maybe people who know nothing about perspective like me won't notice it.
It's super annoying when the bed starts popping out like a ledge in my mind, though. But oh well, it's only one room, and you'd only spend a few minutes in it.
It would be better if somebody else drew the backgrounds, but nobody seems willing to do that, so I'll keep it the way it is.
Even if I did get somebody to draw it, I'd tell them to make the perspective deliberately wrong, like some Salvador Dali picture or something, just to put that joke in. Even if it did feel like the bed was poking your eyeballs.
In my opinion, it's better that the game is funny.
I guess it all depends on your point of view.
I was going to post the completed picture, but unfortunately, xs.to says that the file is too big...

[skyfire2]

maybe people who know nothing about perspective like me won't notice it.

trust me, they will. they'll think that the picture was drawn by a five year old and looking at it will make their eyeballs feel very uncomfortable.

[Ali]

What is atmospheric perspective?

I've always called it aerial perspective but here's an explanation:
http://www.sanford-artedventures.com/study/g_atmos_perspective.html

It isn't necessarily very useful for a bedroom image, but I wouldn't want to contradict Big Brother. You know... 'cause he's watching...

I think Helm may have a point. There's no reason that you couldn't draw an entirely 'flat' image - like a platform game. A few AGSers have attempted a similar style including me [plug] in this WIP where I've tried to make every object flat like cut-out stage scenery http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=24188.0[/plug].

It could be effective for a comedy game and easier to draw. Try to be a bit stricter with yourself: doors should be tall rather than wide. Trying to be more diagrammatic might be more effective.

[DonB]

trust me, they will. they'll think that the picture was drawn by a five year old and looking at it will make their eyeballs feel very uncomfortable.

..all the hate on these forums.. why?!!  :

[Corey]

trust me, they will. they'll think that the picture was drawn by a five year old and looking at it will make their eyeballs feel very uncomfortable.

..all the hate on these forums.. why?!!  :

the fact that their art i l33t makes them feel seperior 

[vict0r]

the fact that their art i l33t makes them feel seperior

The fact that some people dont want to spend time on their art

[Grapefruitologist]

The completed room! (And no, unless it's something other than perspective, I'm not changing it. I think Helm is right.)

I added a LOTR poster with a picture of Sam on it-do you think it looks like him?
Also, I think I may have got the shoes wrong. I haven't been using real shoe laces for a long time... is that how shoes look?
And, here's another pretty bad excuse for the perspective, but maybe one of the bed's legs fell off and it's all crooked now. It could happen... it happened to my brother! Heh
UPDATE: OK, so I put the new completed picture up. Should I have the line there or not? The one by the edge of the bed, closest to you?

[TerranRich]

The shoes are way off, but that's okay! They look very unique.

[Grapefruitologist]

Yeah, but now Kyle has to tie his shoes 4 times... xD
Oh well. I don't like Kyle anyway, lol.
I updated the picture, added a blanket.
UPDATE: Okay, last picture, I think. Does this picture of the blanket look better than the one I last posted?

[TerranRich]

Nice touch, the blanket. It's on the bed, but that's about it; it's not made or anything. But that's good, it works.
My only problem is the JPEG distortion. If you look at the dresser, you can see blobs of light and dark color;those are JPEG artifacts although it's a PNG file. Weird.

[Grapefruitologist]

Yeah, I know. I converted it to JPEG, but then converted it to PNG when I saw the distortion. I re-drew some of the stuff that looked horrible because of that (why in the world does it do that anyway?) this time.
Is there a way to fix this and restore it to the way it was?
Is anything else noticeable that's distorted?

[DonB]

To be honest mate.. everything seems to be disorted by it..

i like the background but if you keep it in this style i think you should, like others already told you, make the door a little smaller and higher..

And whats the thing with the red lines coming out of the middle of the shoes.. i think i know what you wanted to make, but i cant translate it well.. anyways.. if thats the thing it isnt right placed and there should be only coming one line a side out of it..

hope that made sense..

About the jpg., if it really cant be helped i would completely redraw the background, sorry to say if you got much work in it.. and then copy and paste in photoshop and save it as a .gif or .png or .jpg.. like i always do, no weird concequences then. Good luck!

EDIT: sorry, i read now you already mentioned the shoe thing..

[Grapefruitologist]

I'll try just re-drawing the colors that got distorted.
Of course I could just make another joke and be lazy... xD

[TerranRich]

Don't save it as JPEG at all. JPEG images are compressed and therefore blur and smudge certain colors as a result. Save it to PNG only from now on (although it's too late for the picture above). Once it's been JPEG'ed, that's it.

[Grapefruitologist]

I know, I didn't even mean to, stupid program saved it as JPEG automatically.
Over and over again, infact, making it even worse... when I told it not to!!
Oh well, I restored the worst distorted parts.
This reminds me of that Elmo book. They made an Elmo potty training book, but somehow the audio file got ruined when they converted it, so instead of saying "Uh oh, who has to go?" It says "Uh oh, who wants to die?"

[ManicMatt]

Yeah, my very first background for my game was saved in JPG, and so it's in the game for about 30 seconds.

I could of sworn I used to save images on my Amiga via Personal Paint in jpg, hmm must have been something else. (Personal Paint = Imagine deluxe paint was still being made and improved in the late nineties/early 00's)

[MarVelo]

You seriously accept this as a background? And I dispute that art is not as important as the comedy. If someone wanted comedy acompanied by something that looks like the decauss button was just hit they would take phsycodelic drugs and watch standup.

[skyfire2]

You seriously accept this as a background? And I dispute that art is not as important as the comedy. If someone wanted comedy acompanied by something that looks like the decauss button was just hit they would take phsycodelic drugs and watch standup.

why all the hate?

[Grapefruitologist]

You might have a different opinion than me; but I think in this case comedy is more important than art. In fact, comedy IS art. More comedy, more art. I know more about the game than you, so it might seem like I need good art to you, whereas, I am the creator of the game, and I'm doing all the work, so I know that I can get away with one room being a little (or a lot) off, as long as I keep the comedy part as the main subject in the game. And besides, it's my first game-expect a little low quality.
If it's good to me, that's good enough for me. I'll try to make it better in other people's opinions, but if I can't, as long as it's acceptable to me, then I know it's good-really, I'm making this game for myself as much as for everyone else. It's like that anti-drug commercial (though not very effective for making people stop taking drugs) you can't just let everyone change you. Sure, listen to what people say, but you've got to be sure it's what YOU want. Otherwise, there IS no art. It's all stereotype or whatever the word for it is.
And is it just me or was Monkey Island's art a little less than perfect? (Atleast in my opinion. It looked too pixelly/errr... weird to me, but that didn't stop LucasArts.)
But yes, I will try to improve it, but it's not going to be perfect unless it's perfect to me and O.K. to other people.
But, keep in mind, to me, I would rather play a comedy game than an artsy game. In fact I don't even download any adventure games unless they say something about it being wacky or funny, atleast SLIGHTLY humorous. If it's not funny, even if it has the best art in the world, then I usually quit after about 5 minutes of playing.
Let's face it-there's too much focus on art and not enough on humour. I like comedy more than art, even though some people might disagree. Though, I'll try to keep a balance of the two somewhat, so don't worry about that.

Besides-why bug me about something I can't fix (or I'm already trying to?)

[nihilyst]

But, keep in mind, to me, I would rather play a comedy game than an artsy game. Let's face it-there's too much focus on art and not enough on humour. I like comedy more than art, even though some people might disagree.

But does comedy imply "bad art"? When you give the advices here an ear and try to improve your artistic skills, you won't lose your abilty to make a humorous game. Why not have a good comedy-game with good graphics.

Maybe you quit games, that have a serious kind of story, although they might have good graphics, but when I look at the floor of the room, you made, my eyes hurt. The color is too bright, you never would find that contrast in anyone's room, even it was in a comedy game, or an aquarium, that looks like a light bulb.

And if your game really is humorous is still to be proofed.

cheers
nihilyst

[Grapefruitologist]

I've already written most of it, and in my opinion, it is-I laughed at the jokes, but then again, I have a different kind of humour.
I am trying to make good graphics, but now that I've thought of this joke for the room, I can't just discard it for the sake of art.
And I have a carpet like that! I am dressed like Hailey. You say, "Nobody dresses like this," (In my other thread somebody said that) and "nobody has a carpet like this," when I am basing the game on my life. So how can I make a mistake at it being realistic? Atleast besides the souls switching bodies and alien abduction and tie-your-shoes-4-times thing.
I know what I am doing-don't worry. Even if I know nothing about art, I know what my goal is and when it's been reached. You only ask for criticism when it's incomplete, but it's completed now, so I don't need anymore criticism for this topic. Thanks anyway, though. And, don't worry, I'm not mad anyone, but sometimes you have to know when to quit criticizing.
Oh, and didn't I mention that this is the only room in the game with these faults? I will work twice as hard on the other rooms, but I'm keeping this the way it is.

[Renal Shutdown]

Perpestive is for losers.  You're on to a winner here.

And God screwed up when he made man.  We should all have ankles as thin as pencils.

I want to play this game so much my eyes hurt.

[Grapefruitologist]

And, to add to my last post, and close this thread, I'd like to say:
If you want to make an artistic, serious game, then YOU spend hours on the art, YOU write the script, YOU make the game. If I put this much work into a game, it should be my game, I'm not making a game for you. And as harsh as this sounds, I don't really care if you insult me, I mean really, no hard feelings.
No more posts please-we'll all get our accounts deleted if we keep argueing about this, atleast the thread will get locked.
(BTW, sorry if I sound like I'm getting too upset about this.)

[Renal Shutdown]

Grape, I'm deadly serious.  We need more games like this.  Captain Mostly defied logic and became reknowned.  It's good to see someone who's willing to push the envelope a little.  I, myself, refuse to be constrained my conventional perspective. As did Sam and Max and DOTT.  They're both classics.  If you want to make a game in this style, don't let anyone else tell you it's wrong.

If you like it, go with it.  If you think it can be improved and can't figure out how, ask for help.  As long as you're happy with it, that's all that matters.  The same rule has applied for all the respectable artist and musicians thru-out the years.  Picasso, Sonic Youth and all the other can't be wrong, can they?

[Grapefruitologist]

Ok, thanks Spleen.
Yep... maybe we should not post anymore, because the thread is officially dead now (I killed it xD), and there are other threads that are still active.
So, my last post.

[MarVelo]

This is the CRITICS lounge so dont get all hot and bothered. Have a nice day.

[Khris]

I could of sworn I used to save images on my Amiga via Personal Paint in jpg, hmm must have been something else.

I'm pretty sure you saved them as IFFs. At least that's what I did back then.

Grape, don't make up bad excuses for your first attempt at drawing a room being bad. And don't make it more significant than it is by bringing up some stupid comedy vs. art discussion.
And don't (really, don't) insult MI's graphics. That's just ridiculous & pathetic.

You could have simply admitted that the room didn't turn out what you wanted it to look like. If you don't wanna listen to all the people telling you that (even DOTT-like) perspective has gone haywire here, then why bother posting your work in the critics lounge?
If you don't wanna improve, don't post, and people won't tell you what's wrong with it.
Or grow up, post, get critics and live with it.

[big brother]

Try shrinking the background so we don't have to scroll left and right to read these damn posts.

[MarVelo]

I agree. Its damn'd enoying

[skyfire2]

grape, you're beginning to piss me off. and quit insulting monkey island graphics, it just makes you look retarded. if you didn't know, the backgrounds in monkey island  took many months to make.

here's my suggestion, if you want your backgrounds to look good, google vanishing point. after that, practice. if your room doesn't use some sort of perspective, very few people will want to play your game. it's a logic based fact, accept it.

[Pet Terry]

My advice is...

...to get rid of those textures! They don't look very good at all, and are pain for my eyes. Also, I suggest you don't use so much brown/red colours. And plain grey just looks boring on the walls. You might also want to make the ceiling visible, because now the room looks very high.

That is, if you suddenly feel like polishing your graphics later.

[Grapefruitologist]

I agree. This is the CRITICS lounge, not the "useless already obvious unconstructive criticism" lounge.
I can't shrink the background because I'm using paint, but I already got somebody else to shrink it for me.
And I wasn't insulting their graphics, MI is the whole reason I like adventure games. Otherwise I wouldn't have known about them. I'm just saying that art doesn't always make the game very good.
It is a rule not to give unconstructive criticsm. And that is why I'm so annoyed at you all, because you never follow that rule, and you get away with it (I've been reading other people's threads and it's the same there a lot of the time.)
"You seriously accept this as a background? And I dispute that art is not as important as the comedy. If someone wanted comedy acompanied by something that looks like the decauss button was just hit they would take phsycodelic drugs and watch standup."
How is this any different than saying, "Oh, that sux, man"?
"My advice is...

...to get rid of those textures! They don't look very good at all, and are pain for my eyes. Also, I suggest you don't use so much brown/red colours. And plain grey just looks boring on the walls. You might also want to make the ceiling visible, because now the room looks very high.

That is, if you suddenly feel like polishing your graphics later. "
Petteri, very good, THAT is constructive criticsm. THAT is what the critic's lounge is for, and what I'm asking for. I'd already noticed and mentioned previously that the walls were too plain, so I agree. I really just would appreciate it if you (those that gave unconstructive criticsm) took the rules more seriously, that's all. It's not like I'm forcing you to play my game, but you can't force me to make it the exact way you want it.

"You could have simply admitted that the room didn't turn out what you wanted it to look like. If you don't wanna listen to all the people telling you that (even DOTT-like) perspective has gone haywire here, then why bother posting your work in the critics lounge?
If you don't wanna improve, don't post, and people won't tell you what's wrong with it.
Or grow up, post, get critics and live with it."
It DID turn out the way I wanted it to look like, basically. At first it didn't, and I HAD admitted that. But then I started thinking about it and I simply changed my mind, that's all. It was horrible to begin with, but the more I think about, the more it seems acceptable to my game. I wanted to improve, and I still do (the walls, even though I might not be able too), but now I've just simply changed my mind. I'm not going to do whatever you say, so live with it. If people don't play my game because of it, then fine, but if I don't like my own game then what's the point? It's not just an excuse to make it the way it is, that's my decision. I'm not bothered by criticsm, but don't just badger me about not making it the way you want it. Critic: Change the color? Me: Good! Ok, I'll think about it. Critic: Get rid of the JPEG distortion? Me: Ok, I'll try. Critic: Do you really accept this as a background? Me: Yes, I do. Critic: Put a blanket on the bed? Me: Yes, I'll do that. Critc: Fix the perspective? Me: Ok, I've already thought about it, and I've decided not too. Critic: Fix the perspective? Me: No, I've already though about that, I've decided not too. Critic: Fix the perspective? Me: SHUT THE HALIBUT UP! I'M NOT DOING IT!
That was just to show you why I'm upset. That's the way I see it. (You might see it differently, but this is the way I see it, just to show you how annoying it is.)
Give constructive criticsm, and I won't mind, even if you say "My advice is to start over and draw a new carpet, a rug, a painting of the Mona Lisa next to the Statue of Liberty, a dog, a cat, microscopic organisms and a closet with the boogie man in it, because right now your background is just horrible and you need to start over again, it looks like my little cousin drew it," I won't get upset. But if you give unconstructive criticsm, like, "That's the worst background I've ever seen. You're not good at this, you should give up," well, that's not even legal! So you shouldn't try it, even if I didn't get upset by it. And if you say something over and over again, like "That's a horrible excuse to draw a bad background, fix the perspective!" and I say "No, I'll keep it the way it is," and then you say, "You're making a horrible mistake, draw it correctly!" and I say, "No, sorry, that's the way it'll be," and you say, "Nobody will play your game! People will laugh at you! Now fix the perspective!" then I'm still not gonna do it, and get quite annoyed. This, to me, is like somebody saying, "I didn't make up the idea for it, I didn't write any of the dialogue or puzzles, I didn't do the programming or art for it, but please can you make this game for me?"
I don't mean to start argueing again here, and I don't mean to start any fights. I never meant to. But this is the way the game is going to be. I might be an idiot for doing this, but I'd be an idiot for not doing it too...

EDIT: Sorry for getting upset at you. But like I said before, criticsm is welcome, but only if it's constructive.
You probably are going to call me a defensive n00b for saying all this, but I hope you understand why I am.

[skyfire2]

grape, you need to fix the perspective. the bed looks like it's hovering over the shoes and everything confuses my eye so bad that they want to bleed. FIX IT!!!

[Grapefruitologist]

Then don't look at it.

[Mordalles]

i think the problem around here is that people are obsessed with vanishing points, thats all i ever hear.

theyre not making the game, you are. so do what you want with it. its not like u are getting paid for it. so make it for you. thats the most important, if you like the game, then it was worth it. people are too quick to give critic, but they never show us what they can do. if they can make a better game, let them prove it.

[Nikolas]

I have to say that most people in here have proven beyond doubt their skills in their art. Sorry Mordy but, although sometimes they are harsh sometimes, it's true. After all this place is for critics and this BG needed some bad ass critic as it was.

Now I agree completly that grape must do what he feels like. He supported his case fully imo and he shouldn't care what other people say in the end. They are right and from my experience in music and when other people show things to me, it is always obvious when something is done because of choice or because of lack of skills. Here it is the second. But again the point the people have made here is clear. Generally I would advice against deciding because of lack on something (as it happened here), but then again...

[Mordalles]

i just think that if people want to see something better, why dont they just do it themselves. half of the people criticising every game and demanding better graphics or better gameplay have never released a game themselves. they take too much for granted.

just keep the criticism constructive, thats all.

[MarVelo]

Now since when cant you shrink things in Paint?





Look, You can make crazy "MI" (i shake to say thine initials) and not make people brains bleed. Heed


I used absolutly no perspective at all and it is way off and would fit ur style!

Now dont say that its crappy cause this is made in Paint. (and im not bragging)

[Grapefruitologist]

Since it horribly distorts them.

And thanks Mordalles, that was my point.

Taffytom, I think you're missing the point here. I don't care what the room looks like. It's Kyle's bedroom, so it should be a little off. God knows he's a little off.

[MarVelo]

Is that really that much worse?

[erat]

were you drunk dude? cuz everything is like thisÃ,  /


oh wow my first post....  :o

[Grapefruitologist]

Taffytom, I think you're missing the point here. I don't care what the room looks like. It's Kyle's bedroom, so it should be a little off. God knows he's a little off.
Erat, it's supposed to look that way.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Stop this. 

Grapefruitologist-  Usually I am exceedingly in favor of positive reinforcement as a means to improve the art of others (my many posts in this forum are proof of this) but some of these people have made extremely valid points about your work, which you, as the author, have posted for review and comment.  In your initial post you cite, and I quote:

"My mom says that perspective is wrong, but I can't really see it. "

Other people in the forum, to various degrees of kindness, have pointed out how the perspective is wrong since you made it clear you couldn't see it.  Whether or not you choose to continue making the game in a warped perspective or not is your choice, granted, but getting angry at people for showing you how the perspective is wrong and how you might improve it (in light of your admitted lack of 'seeing' the problem) is unacceptable.  You have posted this here for feedback, and I consider improving perspective to be useful (as do a great many people).

The rest of you-  Let the issue go.  If Grapefruitologist wishes to make the game in a non-standard perspective then sobeit.  Since it is clear that it is not a concern of the creator, move on to other critique.

Thank you.

[Grapefruitologist]

Well, I'm not making the whole GAME like this, just this one room, just for the joke.

EDIT: You can lock this thread now, if you want, because I think the arguement might just start up again.

I didn't mean to get angry, or even sound angry, so I am sorry. In fact, to make up for it, I'll fix the perspective in the sequel.

[ildu]

Taffytom, I think you're missing the point here. I don't care what the room looks like.

You lost me. So, why exactly did you start this thread?

[Erwin_Br]

The sad thing is that this thread is already 3 pages long, while people who *really* want to improve their work, and deserve a lot of attention, are happy to get only 1 or 2 pages. And this isn't the first time.

--Erwin

[MarVelo]

I didnt mean to be an *sshole, I just dont like people who make excuses

[Corey]

this critic lounge thing seems really offencive against people who really need help with their... If some one posts very good and detailed image that only needs some adjustments everyone is nice but when there is some who post an image with less skill it alway trouble  why's that ?? 

[Minimi]

euhm... I never thought I'd say this, but maybe for some people it's better to ask someone else to draw for them

[MarVelo]

this critic lounge thing seems really offencive against people who really need help with their... If some one posts very good and detailed image that only needs some adjustments everyone is nice but when there is some who post an image with less skill it alway troubleÃ,  why's that ??Ã, 

Thats not the reason. We have tried to tell Gfruit may times that it is the perspective that is holding this background back. The reason people with less "skill" start "trouble" is because the reason they have less "skill" is because they dont listen to what we have to say, and ignore good advice. Not that ALL the advice given here is good, merely suggestions.

I don't care what the room looks like.

That defeats the purpose of posting in this forum.

[Pumaman]

This is ridiculous.

I would recommend that everyone remembers how they passed the registration quiz, which includes a question on how to give constructive criticism without winding people up and sounding like a smart-ass.