Author Topic: El Ammo: now released! (Parody)  (Read 10369 times)

AGD2

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #20 on: 05 Sep 2006, 12:09 »
If this is who we suspect it to be from, then this isn't merely a flattering joke. Trust me on that.

I don't have any problem with parodies. Al Emmo itself is made of many parodied characters and scenes, so, yes, we're aware of how parody law works since we had to check into whether we could include such things ourselves.  

The issue here isn't that this is a parody, it's the fact that material has been taken directly from our game and used without our permission. The title is also confusingly similar in a way that intentionally tries to confuse between this and the real product.  So again, I'm requesting that the thread please be deleted

Thanks.

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #21 on: 05 Sep 2006, 12:23 »
I'm with Matt. A parody of a game before the game is released? Whatever the creator was intending, he could have come up with something more believable.
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SSH

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #22 on: 05 Sep 2006, 12:33 »
Surely its a parody of the DEMO, which has been released, Rui and Matt.

I don't think that a thread should be deleted because Himalaya suspect anything. They should PM their concerns and suspicions to a moderator who will be able to look at IP addresses, etc, for the Llama and so on.

Also, parody and satire can be challenging and point out flaws, rather than just be funny. I don't see how an intention to be flattering or not is relevant.

The Campbell vs Acuff-Rose Music Inc case I linked earlier was a parody that had explicitly been refused permission to use the copyright material they used. And yet they still won.

As for the title, do you think the people would confuse "Gill Bates" with the head of Microsoft? or parody walkthroughs by "Gren Leen" with those by "Len Green"? Because I don't. I've never heard of copyright or trademark protection applying to anagrams or spoonerisms.
« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2006, 12:55 by SSH »

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #23 on: 05 Sep 2006, 12:35 »
Actually, I started an edit saying "delete" would be overkill... but I didn't write it because I thought, "As the owner of the IP, AGDI are in the right to at least "sue", as it were - in this case, try and get it to disappear, like any company."
Reach for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

Kneel. Now.

Never throw chicken at a Leprechaun.

Erpy

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #24 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:04 »
Quote
As for the title, do you think the people would confuse "Gill Bates" with the head of Microsoft? or parody walkthroughs by "Gren Leen" with those by "Len Green"? Because I don't. I've never heard of copyright or trademark protection applying to anagrams or spoonerisms.

Often, yes, it confuses people. Particularly when the real release is anticipated. I have no doubt that is why it was removed at Adventuregamers. People are accustomed to spelling errors online and their first reaction is often to assume the poster made a typo. If someone writes a post online saying: "Stive Erwin died", the first thing I'd assume is that he IS referring to the wildlife nurturer and that he simply typed too quickly. Thus I'd be confused. Not to mention the fact lots of people quickly skim stuff online.

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The Campbell vs Acuff-Rose Music Inc case I linked earlier was a parody that had explicitly been refused permission to use the copyright material they used. And yet they still won.

This case would not be similar because even under the parody clause, you're only allowed to take as much IP as you absolutely need. (in the case you quoted...some of the lyrics) That means you're only allowed to directly take art or music if creating a likeness yourself isn't possible. (again, if you can't directly copy the essence of the lyrics of a song, it's difficult to parody anything) You can't take art or music just because it saves you the time of having to create it yourself.

« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2006, 13:05 by Erpy »

AGD2

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #25 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:09 »
Not to get into a debate about this, but I think I've made our position clear.  Ironically, the afore-mentioned things are all legal issues which we had to contend with when dealing with VU and the reason why we had to change our name "Tierra" to "AGDI". The same story behind "KQ9" having to be changed to "The Silver Lining".

Legalities aside, I'm asking politely that the thread be removed simply out of respect for the work that many people have been put into it and for the same reasons why anybody else would request the same thing. Whether the screens are from the demo or not is beside the point. The fact remains that we did not give permission for these materials to be used in this way, and that in itself violates the user agreement of both the full game and the demo.

bury100

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #26 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:20 »
My,my the world is in a state of decline. I never thought human stupidity actually WAS infinite but now I'm having my doubts... If the situation is so bad that the Himalaya studios have to threaten the author with lawsuit unless he brings the game down in order to save their work than I am truly sorry for them, and for the people who seem to get stupidier by every day. My god is it really so hard to realize that this is NOT the true release(let alone simply reading the game name a few times until the veil of stupidity is raised)? Now, Erpy and Himalaya team, just let it go, this is pathetic, you have to have some faith in humanity. Furthermore, I am partly against your attitude, do you really consider yourself a serious company if you have the time and money to go about banning other people's fan games just because they use some of your art? The author of the game clearly just meant this game as a joke and as such you ought not bother yourself with it unless the actual parody truly depicts the level of your game... Stop this farse people because it is balancing on the verge of insanity and idiocy. By turning your attention to a stupid little game you give us a reason to think that you bother yourself with goose chase instead of working on improving your own, commercial game. Everyone has faith in you, do not give us a reason not to.

big brother

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #27 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:24 »
I'm glad you guys decided not to charge 30 bucks for this after all!
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AGD2

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #28 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:26 »
Oh gawd... here we go again!  ::)

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #29 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:26 »
To the AGD2's last response- and I do the very contrary and encourage that the topic be left alone, as a sign of respect for pure critique and the freedom of word. Honestly if critique(in any form whatsoever) was a crime our world would be one gigantic folly, specifically speaking the game companies can hardly do popular games while muting the gamers' concerns as to the game they are producing, both sides would lose in effect, the gamers unsatisfied and the company bankrupt...

SSH

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #30 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:28 »
Since we don't know who the llama guy is, how can we judge whether he is capable of making his own art or music? I know that I certainly couldn't produce anything that looked vaguely like Al Emmo, does that mean I would be able to use screenshots if I were to make a parody?

I understand your POV but I just feel you're being very thin-skinned which does little for Himalaya's image.

Erpy

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #31 on: 05 Sep 2006, 13:38 »
SSH, officially, if you don't have the capabilities of creating something that captures the essence of the work that is to be parodied, you're expected to find someone who CAN produce the desired effect and get him to work with you. That's the way it works.

We're not threatening anyone with lawsuits, nor are we "going after" anyone. We've taken a lot of criticism, both constructive and unconstructive, in response to the demo and never demanded those comments to be deleted either. We simply object to the extensive and unnecessary use of the results of our work. Our world won't be any crazier at the end of the day and critique and freedom of word will probably still exist as they are.


AGD2

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #32 on: 05 Sep 2006, 14:00 »
Well, I'm not sure what all this talk about critique or threatening lawsuits is coming from. I never mentioned any such things. I specifically said that the game uses our artwork and that I'm respectfully requesting the thread's removal to avoid confusion.

Look, honestly, it doesn't matter what we type. Some intellectual will always be there to try to twist it around and this is to be expected when posting on adventure game-related forums.  All I can say to that is that I'm not trying to maintain any image. I don't play the appeasement game. If you like our game, then that's great and you can buy it!  If not, then don't. But the game itself and the legal issues in this thread have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

What I am doing here, is asking that the thread be removed for the afore-mentioned reasons. It's a matter between the mods here and ourselves, so until a mod replies, I'll leave it at that.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #33 on: 05 Sep 2006, 14:07 »
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I'm glad you guys decided not to charge 30 bucks for this after all!
Ha!  :=

As a moderator of the CL (but not this forum) I don't really see a problem here, guys.  Sure it uses IP from your game, and certainly if I felt that the game itself was poking insult at yours I'd see your point here, but after playing it...Well, it's just a saloon type shooter that seems more silly than anything.  I think you should pm Chris directly and get his judgement on it, but personally aside from it bothering you I don't see it as offensive. ;|

SSH

  • Flying round the world at the speed of haggis
    • I can help with scripting
    • SSH worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • SSH worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #34 on: 05 Sep 2006, 14:07 »
SSH, officially, if you don't have the capabilities of creating something that captures the essence of the work that is to be parodied, you're expected to find someone who CAN produce the desired effect and get him to work with you. That's the way it works.

As a point of fact, it isn't. FACT copied the entirety of a Scientological work and it was found to be fair use. It all depends on the exact circumstances as the court sees them, but anyway, I don't want to carry the legal discussion anyu further as I don't want to confuse people.

As AGD2 stated that he's not trying to maintain an image, then please feel free to alienate the members of one of the biggest forums related to your market by appearing arrogant and hypocritical, although that may worry Himalaya's creditors...

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #35 on: 05 Sep 2006, 14:39 »
My god is it really so hard to realize that this is NOT the true release(let alone simply reading the game name a few times until the veil of stupidity is raised)?

If it was a high profile game like grand theft auto, and the parody game was called grandma theft auto, then sure I'd spot it a mile away. However, it is a game I've read about ONCE, and has a name that is foreign to me.

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #36 on: 05 Sep 2006, 15:04 »
I'm with himalaya on this one.

it's fine making a parody, but stealing copyrighted artwork to do it (which i know people worked really hard on)  isn't the way to go. especially a week before the game's release. i think this thread should be deleted, since this is definitely damaging to al emmo's release (if the guy used his own artwork, even if its really bad, then there woulnd't have been a problem). there will be people who will be confused by this. especially because they are so close to the real al emmo's release and it has the same screenshots. or just remove it atleast until a month after al emmo's release.

but i don't like getting into debates, so i'll leave it at that.
« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2006, 15:08 by Mordalles »

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bury100

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Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #37 on: 05 Sep 2006, 15:35 »
Actually, Himalaya uses the copyright issue simply as a reason to support their dislike of a project with an almost identical name before the release. Of course they have all the right in the world to demand that the game is banned, albeit it is my opinion, and advice that they simply shouldn't. The reasons for this were already mentioned in this thread therefore I am not going to repeat myself. However, the demand was already made and I am sure that the moderator will soon announce his decision in this matter, I do not see the reason for continuing this pointless debate any longer, for as AGD2 said, this is an issue between the moderator and the Himalaya Studios(although the author might have a word or two on the topic as well). It is very likely that this project is indeed a violent sabotage on the welfare of the Al Emmo project, seeing as so much effort was made(the game was announced on many different forums) for the cause of releasing and spreading a game as trivial and poorly designed as El Ammo.

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #38 on: 05 Sep 2006, 15:43 »
not to be rude or anything, bury, but if you are referring to the fabricated reasons you sucked out of your thumb, then maybe you shoulnd't be so quick to call people stupid.

"It's a fairy! She's naked! Curse these low-res graphics!" - Duty and Beyond

AGD2

Re: El Ammo: now released!
« Reply #39 on: 05 Sep 2006, 15:54 »
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... by appearing arrogant and hypocritical, although that may worry Himalaya's creditors...

Ah, yes. The good old "arrogance" line. That's always a favourite, eh? (Although I find it odd that the majority accusers often don't see the irony contained in their own statements. )  ;)

Look, I think no matter how politely you word something, someone's always going to be there to call you arrogant. If you try to defend yourself/your work against a general consensus that possibility exists.  Hence, it's to be taken with a grain of salt. Like I said, I'm not here to get involved in endless debates or to act like a showman propping up some fake image. I'm simply putting in an honest request to the mods, and that's all.

If I didn't think this could potentially affect us, I wouldn't have bothered mentioning it -- especially considering the inevitable reaction these threads always seem to generate.

Quote
Actually, Himalaya uses the copyright issue simply as a reason to support their dislike of a project with an almost identical name before the release.

If the game used its own assets, and a non-confusing name. I couldn't care less about the parody. As I mentioned, I don't have any issue at all with the parody aspect.  The primary issue is the specific timing of its release. The creator planned and intended the release for this exact time because he knew that we'd react in such a manner to protect our work if it was 'ripped' in this way. And he knew that posting it on the very public AGS forums would garner this kind of controversial response.

There are no two ways about it, this is intended as sabotage and has elicited the exact type of response the poster was hoping for prior to our launch date.