Author Topic: Al Emmo & the Lost Dutchman's Mine Enhanced  (Read 47839 times)

visionmind

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #80 on: 03 Nov 2006, 23:28 »
I think it's quite ironic that people have complained about prices.  AGS was originally designed for was to make Sierra, LucasArts games (it has since grown in abilities), those Sierra and LucasArts arts games originally cost anywhere from $40 to $60.  Only people who played the originals (back in the 80's and early 90's) would remember the 'steep' prices.  For instance, the retail price for KQ3 was $59.99.  60 Bucks!  The first game I played was KQ4 which we got for Christmas for like $40.00 if not more.  (We went on to play the all the KQ's);

Fast forward to now and people want adventure games for either (a) free or (b) far below the price that would compensate for time ($10-20).   The sad part is is that you still pay top dollar for other new games and people just accept it.  AND cost of living hasn't exactly become cheaper.

I was very surprised to see how many people react negatively to a commercial released game.   It's kind of sad to me.   I don't understand what people don't expect.  My mind is the better Al Emmo or Shiva sell (or whatever else game that's being released commercially)l the better other adventure games sell.  We're all in this together.  If they fail, other commercial endeavors fail.  It's not a competition, it's a support group.

If your not making money right now (for whatever reason) don't complain, just wait until you do/are.   Save up if you need.  That's my situation, and when I'm able I fully intend on supporting these guys (with the benefit of playing a fun game).

With that I wish Himalaya Studios, Wadjet Eye Games and any other person/entity making a commercial game tons of success.

Visionmind

PS To Himalaya Studios I would really recommend updating your website with the announcement your selling your game online.  I check your website regularely and didn't know, until now, that you are.

PPS I don't mean any offense and so if your tempted to be offended don't be
« Last Edit: 08 Nov 2006, 01:45 by visionmind »

Erpy

Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #81 on: 03 Nov 2006, 23:36 »
Alliance, we're currently working on negotiations with a publisher who might have the means to get the game in stores. The whole deal is still up in the air though.

And visionmind, thanks for the kind words. And yeah, I know the website's info needs to be updated. It's on our webmaster's to-do list.


Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #82 on: 04 Nov 2006, 01:08 »
*still pointing at curse of monkey island, and arm is starting to tire*


and visionmind, what's wrong with wanting free games.?  :-\  :P

"It's a fairy! She's naked! Curse these low-res graphics!" - Duty and Beyond

DeadSuperHero

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #83 on: 04 Nov 2006, 01:09 »
*still pointing at curse of monkey island, and arm is starting to tire*


and visionmind, what's wrong with wanting free games.?  :-\  :P
ROFL. That's a lovely mockery.
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Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #84 on: 04 Nov 2006, 09:14 »
Quote
I am very very curious, and I know I'm asking for spoilers - but what exactly in Al Emmo could differ enough to warrant a new storyline? Is the game less linear than it seems? It sure looks fairly linear, at least as far as what you mean is concerned.
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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #85 on: 04 Nov 2006, 10:01 »
I think it's quite ironic that people have complained about prices.  AGS was originally designed for was to make Sierra, LucasArts games (it has since grown in abilities), those Sierra and LucasArts arts games originally cost anywhere from $40 to $60.  Only people who played the originals (back in the 80's and early 90's) would remember the 'steep' prices.  For instance, the retail price for KQ3 was $59.99.  60 Bucks!  The first game I played was KQ4 which we got for Christmas for like $40.00 if not more.  (We went on to play the all the KQ's);

Fast forward to now and people want adventure games for either (a) free or (b) far below the price that would compensate for time ($10-20).   The sad part is is that you still pay top dollar for other new games adn people just accept it.  AND cost of living hasn't exactly become cheaper.

Ok well let me fast forward you into the year 2006.
People that still play these adventure games are (a) Hardcore adventure fans (b) Against the freaking mockery of the so called games we have today.

I wont pay $30 dollars for a crap game. I refuse to, another 3D clone of some other game. etc. I will also not pay $10-$20 dollars for a game that I believe sucks, is annoying. The sad part is really that $10-$20 dollars doesnt even compensate for the time spent on the game? Well IMO The time spent on the game could of been spent on gowing mushrooms and feeding the hungry.

My arguement is still the same, the game is nothinng spectacular and we are in the year 2006 and if you dont compete with the market you cant exactly go and sell your game. I mean compare this game to Vampyres... Difference?

Maybe its just because I never really like the narrator in sierra games, or maybe its just because I did indeed fast forward into the year 2006 where we have 3d games, in 3d engines, which some poor group of coders also spent time on and charging us some fee for it. 'Cause it pushes our machine to its limits and is visaully stunning with no wierd dumbass narrator making corny jokes to annoy me. Where the graphics were made in photoshop by proffesionals who also charge a fee for there services and then marketing publishing and all these things that also cost money. I am glad to pay that amount of money for those games as you put it. Cause I get a qaulity game that I want to support to get more of in future.

This is not quality yet, and it  will never be if everybody is trying to ok it. We pay for this and support this and ten they will never up there standard cause its OK like you say ppl will just except it.

AGD2

Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #86 on: 04 Nov 2006, 11:47 »
Geez, where's a goat when you need one?  I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but the game's selling just fine; even though we're in 2006 and despite the fact that it's a retro title. And how do you know that I don't grow mushrooms on the side?

Quote
I am very very curious, and I know I'm asking for spoilers - but what exactly in Al Emmo could differ enough to warrant a new storyline? Is the game less linear than it seems? It sure looks fairly linear, at least as far as what you mean is concerned.

There's not a whole lot in the first Al Emmo game that could vary, but subsequent games, could refer back to your actions in the first game in order to see how you solved particular puzzles. A common complaint about QFG5 is that if they were to make a QFG6 with the same hero, then QFG5's save file would have needed to save data about which characters died, which ones lived, who the hero saved, who he married, and whether he became king or not. But since the savegame file doesn't save this data, QFG6 would need to start from a clean slate and, again, assume that the previous games were played through via the most optimal path.

In Al Emmo, there are a few little things that can differ:

*SPOILERS*
-Whether you find the Casino or not
-Whether you win the jackpot or not
-Whether you find and play through a specific long (and another longer) hidden Easter egg
-Whether you picked up certain red herring inventory items. (For example, these may be useless in the first game, but could carry over into the next game and be useful there).
-Which optional conversations you experienced. (For example, there are several different conversations you can have with Rita, depending on how many times you meet her).
-Which solution you used to solve the dog at gate puzzle (2 solutions)
-How many different flowers you offered Rita

...and so on.
*END SPOILERS*

There's also a fair amount of dialogue in the game that can vary slightly, depending on small actions and things like that. I expect that the possibilities will become more apparent as more games are released containing more variable puzzles and a more variable storyline. For now, we just didn't want to bite off more than could be chewed, so we've kept the variable aspects of the first game small.

In addition to Erpy's original post. I believe I did mention that there's a lot of talent /innovation in this community and that I think it would be a neat idea for those of us who make commercial games to also support the rest of the community by donating/paying others for the use of their mods/plug-ins/or to do custom programming work in our commercial games, as may be required. I'm not sure how there was any implied insult in my previous post, but none was intended. If anything, I intended the contrary.

Big games these days cost millions to make and commercial developers often aren't willing to risk their own money experimenting with new ideas (that may or may not be well-received), as doing so could send them bankrupt if their new, gimmicky concept falls flat. So they often 'steal' innovative ideas from indie titles, which prove to be popular or appealing to mainstream gamers without giving any recognition to the original developer whatsoever. But I think credit is due where it's earned, and that's why I'd be happy to support innovation in the fan community and encourage it.

gypsysnail

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #87 on: 04 Nov 2006, 14:45 »
Ah I have to agree with Visionmind, here in Australia the standard price for a game like this is $50 to $70 in stores today - and, like you, I bought all Sierra games at their steep prices too in the 1980's and 90's (still have that memory of waking up in the morn on my bday and xmas day so many years in a row to a game and jumped on the pc to play them) ;) cos I loved them and still do. So I think $30 is reasonable for a game like that and if it's like Larry then thats even better!! :D I miss larry days but I still have the games ;). I guess also me being deaf, I wont ever be able to hear Al's voice  :'( I would like to but even so I still look for the game that has puzzle and 'hard-to-work-out' type of puzzle quality in it rather than just pretty graphics - though I love good graphics. Its about balancing both in a game and thats marvellous to me when one game can. I have to yet download and play the demo which I will do shortly.

Free games are a nice bonus, but isnt it nice to be able to earn the reward to be able to buy a game? I feel a person who works so hard on the graphics and programming, like Erpy has, should be able to sell his game and I feel they have the right to 'sell' - work hard and get paid for it. There is nothing better than being your own boss and I plan to be this one day with my games when I get good enough at coding. I am at the moment taking my time learning the coding things before I make my actual game :). Then once I am able to code very well, I will be making my games commercial (and you guys who have helped me so much better know that you will be on my rolling credits ;) )

Quote
I was very surprised to see how many people react negatively to a commercial released game.   It's kind of sad to me.   I don't understand what people don't expect.  My mind is the better Al Emmo or Shiva sell (or whatever else game that's being released commercially)l the better other adventure games sell.  We're all in this together.  If they fail, other commercial endeavors fail.  It's not a competition, it's a support group.

I feel sad too at the negativity recieved for his commercial game. I would have hoped a more positive feedback because we need to encourage ppl like Erpy and the rest of us to get our games out there, we need to bring back the old real adventure games that have real plots and lots of puzzles/interactivity involved in them! I was very happy to buy Dave's Blackwell game - prepurchased, for $20 which I consider a very good value, and I am excited to get his game at release next month.

Quote
If your not making money right now (for whatever reason) don't complain, just wait until you do/are.   Save up if you need.  That's my situation, and when I'm able I fully intend on supporting these guys (with the benefit of playing a fun game).

Yeahhh I say thats a good piece of advice!!!!! Its very hard to break out into a business, marketing and all that stuff as well as making the product and trying to get people to see that it is good enough to buy. You WILL eventually make money from your business ;). I love this forum very much, it is like a 2nd family in a way, in that we support each other in making our games. The passion for games here is very strong.That said, lets be more positive towards Erpy's game and support him, Dave and all those who are going commercial. Also a big hand up to Chris for AGS!!! Roberta & Ken sure set the trail blazing and now Chris is following their steps ;) Without them and Chris, I doubt we'd be here doing something we loved most - designing games.

Cheers,
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visionmind

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #88 on: 08 Nov 2006, 01:50 »
I'm really glad to hear Al Emmo is doing well.  Congratulations.  I have even more respect for you guys by how you handle yourself with all these ambiguous replies.

I also see you guys updated your site with the game download news.

Keep up the good work.

visionmind

Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #89 on: 22 Jan 2007, 21:23 »
Hello,

While playing Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Goldmine, I got this exception:


Quote
---------------------------
Illegal exception
---------------------------
An exception 0xC0000005 occured in ACWIN.EXE at EIP = 0x004D1E3B ; program pointer is +1007, ACI version 2.72.920, gtags (36,2)

AGS cannot continue, this exception was fatal. Please note down the numbers above, remember what you were doing at the time and notify CJ on the Tech forum.



Most versions of Windows allow you to press Ctrl+C now to copy this entire message to the clipboard for easy reporting.
---------------------------
OK   
---------------------------

It occurred while showing the book of matches to the owner of the hospitality house...

I had some other exceptions as well. Unfortunately I have no screenshots or specific messages. Any way, here's what little information I have:

I got an exception when returning to Bubba with a prickly pear for the donkey. (When moving off the hospitality house screen.)

The other exception occurred when trying to look at Bubba's anvil.

All exceptions occurred once and couldn't be reproduced. All occurred shortly after starting the game and restoring a saved game...

Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #90 on: 24 Jan 2007, 12:39 »
We all do something for a living, and we all want to something we like to do for that living.  I fix cars for a living.  I also do some work on demolition derby cars, for free.  I do some work for my family, for free.  Ocassionally, an friend of mine needs some work done, that I do for $20-30 per hour plus parts.  But if you come to the car dealership where I work for $21/hr, the SAME job costs $85 per hour plus parts, plus tax, plus environmental fees.  I enjoy working on cars, but I SELL my services.  The guys at AGDI obvoiusly like making games.  They realeased two, for free (with voice acting, to boot!)  They're working on a third, for free.  Now, they go to the office and produce a BETTER product.  Why is everyone blasting Himalaya for doing that?  Is $30 too much for their game?  No, It's just more than you want to spend.  If their game was $5, I don't think this thread would look any different.  (If it were shareware for $5, they'd never get paid.)  I couldn't play the demo (my video card isn't good enough,) but every other demo I played, I determined whether I would by the game based more on the demo than the purchase price.  If you didn't like the demo, don't buy the game.  If you liked the demo, you'd be willing to pay for the game.  When I upgrade my PC will I buy the game?  I'll let you know when I play the game.

TheCheese33

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #91 on: 30 Jan 2007, 01:10 »
The AGS community doesn't overcharge games, you know. In fact, it's a great place to get games, since the prices are always so low! If you don't want to pay for a game, fine; there are plenty of fun free games out there. But if you want to play a certain game that costs money, the least you could do is buy it and show your appreaction for the hard work they put into it. In fact, I encourage people to charge for their games if they are awesome enough (like I did when a Heartland sequel came into disscussion)! The hard-working people in the community don't get any money from the hours of love they put into a game and release it for free. They need to pay the bills, get food, and buy other things to support themselves. So when you pay for a game, you are showing the developers that you really appreciate what they're doing, keeping the community alive and all, because we all know the state of commercial gaming right now, and it doesn't look like it'll be improving any time soon. We need to keep adventures alive and breating, and paying a little can go a long way. I probably sound like one of those TV preachers like Billy Grahm right now. ;D In fact, you could think of it like a donation, like how you donate to other organizations! You play and enjoy adventure games, don't you? Well, why not support that instead of some unknown charity that has no interest to you? Don't get me wrong; donating is great for charities, but why not give to the charity that has to do with one of your passions? Next year, my sophmore year in high school, I plan on taking Computer Science to teach me how to code, and next year a digital art and animation class, to learn how to make my own games and, hopefully, get into the industry. After I take these classes, in my senior year I will begin to make my project a reality (I already have everything else worked out), and if I feel it is good enough and get enough positive comments from other people, I will consider charging for it. Not a lot, mind you, just something like $5 or $10.

Anyway, I think if you feel the game is interesting enough, you should go ahead and buy it. It helps the creators, and it makes you feel good for actually buying it. I don't know how exactly this feeling comes, but it makes you feel loads better you didn't just download it for free. And that's all I have to say.

EDIT: Man, I should probably cut down on the ranting! This is really long. ;D
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Goldfish

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #92 on: 04 Feb 2007, 03:55 »
Some thoughts:

1. QUALITY CONTROL
I think a commercial release, even a free one, needs to maintain quality control. That is a totally separate issue of professionalism to how much a game costs.  This game seems fine for that.

2. PRICE
I think top of the line computer games are ridiculously priced considering the sort of pretty trash that they are. They are essentially at the level of free to air television, or cable TV. And yet they cost a lot more proportionally. Market forces are not so much regulating that as they are exterminating computer game companies by the week. To me, this is a good thing. Because in the gaps, new niches appear, new companies pop up and the whole shebang keeps marching on in a state of evolutionary flux.

3. HORSES FOR COURSES
Adventure games are different from FPSes. They need to be considered in terms of price point as being equivalent to literature. IF (interactive fiction), such as our site Jack's Sofa, is free online but the books based on it sell for anywhere from US$ 6 to US$ 30. Hence computer games with similar interactivity will have a default price point similar to this depending on length and quality.

4. GREEN-EYED MONSTER
I greatly admire El Ammo and its creators. It takes a sh_tload of work to get anywhere in any field you pick. I think some of the bitterest comments are jealousy pure and simple.

5. LOGIC
I find it baffling that some of the criticism of this game is along the lines of,

EGO: "what do you think of my cake?"

NITWIT: "well, it isn't much of a potted fern is it?"

EGO: "what the?"

NITWIT: "I mean it has almost nothing in common with a potted fern."

EGO: "Yes but it isn't meant to be a potted-"

NITWIT: "No pathetic excuses. You will NEVER make it in the potted fern market with this delicious and nutritious snack. I mean, who wants to put THAT in their garden?"

EGO: "sigh."


There are freeware and cheapware FPS engines available, and you can make pretty good FPSes with them in a day or so. So go do that. AGS provides an incredibly diverse platform for any game that promotes interaction and intellectual play. With a small amount of tweaking it can give you any other genre you like. But at the end of the day, trying to say that because AGS is difficult to use to make a potted fern cake somehow its games are worth less is nonsensical.

Hate to break it to the critics but you are paying way way too much for the short lived popular titles. Even the ones that turned into moronic movies.

Kweepa

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #93 on: 04 Feb 2007, 04:36 »
1. QUALITY CONTROL
I think a commercial release, even a free one, needs to maintain quality control. That is a totally separate issue of professionalism to how much a game costs.  This game seems fine for that.
This is half the debate, that the game is low quality. You say "I disagree", and that's fine, but it's not going to change anyone's mind.

Quote
2. PRICE
[...] They are essentially at the level of free to air television, or cable TV.
Certain aspects of them are, I agree, at this level or far below, for example, scripts and visuals.
However it's an apples to oranges comparison as games deliver an experience that you can't get from TV. I could equally say that The Sopranos' gameplay is terrible and it shouldn't be broadcast.

Quote
3. HORSES FOR COURSES
Adventure games are different from FPSes. They need to be considered in terms of price point as being equivalent to literature.
I don't see why. This seems to me an arbitrary distinction and an arbitrary equivalence.

Quote
IF (interactive fiction), such as our site Jack's Sofa, is free online but the books based on it sell for anywhere from US$ 6 to US$ 30. Hence computer games with similar interactivity will have a default price point similar to this depending on length and quality.
Nice plug, but there's no logical connection that I can see.

Quote
4. GREEN-EYED MONSTER
I greatly admire El Ammo and its creators. It takes a sh_tload of work to get anywhere in any field you pick. I think some of the bitterest comments are jealousy pure and simple.
You are wrong, and way out of line. Take a look at any of the threads for the free AGDI games, or any other games around here, and you won't see the same sort of backlash. There is however a great deal of support and admiration. Hence jealousy is not to blame.
(I think you mean Al Emmo and its creators! El Ammo is, without doubt, trash. :=)

Quote
5. LOGIC
[...]
NITWIT: "well, it isn't much of a potted fern is it?"
[...]
There are freeware and cheapware FPS engines available, and you can make pretty good FPSes with them in a day or so. So go do that.
No one is saying that Al Emmo should be an FPS, so I really don't see what you're getting at.

Quote
But at the end of the day, trying to say that because AGS is difficult to use to make a potted fern cake somehow its games are worth less is nonsensical.
Since this is a thread about an adventure game made with AGS, again I don't see your point. If you're trying to say that it doesn't matter what you use to create a game - it should be judged on its own merits - then I agree totally.

Quote
Hate to break it to the critics but you are paying way way too much for the short lived popular titles. Even the ones that turned into moronic movies.
Hate to break it to you, but you're preaching to the choir, the congregation, the preacher and the creators - did you not notice that we're here making, downloading and enjoying free adventure games?

Welcome to the forums!
Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #94 on: 04 Feb 2007, 06:29 »
Also, let's note that it's been almost three months since anyone said anything negative about charging for this game here.  One person dug the thread up to report a bug (which could have been done via PM) and suddenly the argument starts again, only this time, there's only one side arguing. Seriously, stop beating that poor dead horse.

Erpy

Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #95 on: 04 Feb 2007, 14:39 »
Also, let's note that it's been almost three months since anyone said anything negative about charging for this game here.  One person dug the thread up to report a bug (which could have been done via PM) and suddenly the argument starts again, only this time, there's only one side arguing. Seriously, stop beating that poor dead horse.

Actually, it was more like a week ago, just in a different thread.

Quote
4. GREEN-EYED MONSTER
I greatly admire Al Emmo and its creators. It takes a sh_tload of work to get anywhere in any field you pick. I think some of the bitterest comments are jealousy pure and simple.

It's probably a lot more complicated than that, but it's probably also more complicated than the simple "it costs money, so the criteria are a lot higher too"-theory. When the first commercial AGS game, the Adventures of Fatman, was released, I counted 1 or 2 negative reactions and the rest of the not so few reactions were very praising, supportive and encouraging even though it was being sold. *shrug* But no doubt any attempts to explain the absence of any bitterness or objections against commercial AGS games there would open up a can of worms that could fill 6 more pages.

Nevertheless, thanks for the comments. I'm glad you're acknowledging the sh_tload of work it did indeed take to finish from start to end.  :)


lazygamer

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #96 on: 05 Feb 2007, 06:25 »
How long/large is Al Emmo compared to the IA KQ3VGA or Tierra's KQ2VGA+? I liked the quality of the demo, but I'm wondering about the length/size of the game.

Erpy

Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #97 on: 05 Feb 2007, 10:13 »
How long/large is Al Emmo compared to the IA KQ3VGA or Tierra's KQ2VGA+? I liked the quality of the demo, but I'm wondering about the length/size of the game.

There's 9 acts in total. (though a few acts are shorter than act 1) I'd say it's on par with KQ2+ as far as how long it'll take you to get through. Like KQ2VGA, you can look, interact and talk with everything, so how long it'll take you also depends on whether you want to rush through the game or explore every nook and cranny.


Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #98 on: 05 Feb 2007, 10:58 »
And I must add, lazygamer, that the game actually encourages you to full exploration by means of a very, very detailed gameworld. You may get bored with it eventually (I did, but that's just me, and only 5/6 acts into the game), but the first act in particular, if you explore as much as the game encourages you to, can be pretty big. If you're worried about the length/price relationship, it's a very good one.
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lazygamer

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Re: Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine goes gold
« Reply #99 on: 06 Feb 2007, 07:13 »
Yah the length/price relationship was my main concern, as my main issue with alot of AGS games is that they rock, but are too short. $20(digital download) for something the length of KQ2+ or possibly longer is worth it. The original $30 + shipping turned me off a bit.