Al Emmo & the Lost Dutchman's Mine Enhanced

Started by AGD2, Wed 06/09/2006 10:59:20

Previous topic - Next topic

Peder 🚀

at skyfire1:
The story would still be great, and the music would still be great.

at Nikolas:
Do you mean to charge 10-15$ for EACH song?

anyway, I agree about what you say, and must add I also bought the soundtrack CD as the music is great in Al Emmo.

I wouldent minded paying 10-15$ for each song really.
I mean I have heard your music and it is really well done and good.
Offcourse for me it could end up on alot of money in the end if I was to hire you:P but if I did I wouldbe sure to get good music for my game!

Nikolas

Peder,

Sorry, I'm not talkimg about each song, and not talking about hiring me.

I was talking about me, releasing a CD with the soundtrack for a game, which I would charge aroudn 10-15$ (as far as I know). The same way someone does a game and release it and charges 29.99$.

Thanks for your nice words :)

Peder 🚀

oh ok:P thought that was what you was on about :P.

Then 10-15$ is not really that much money.
I pay maybe around $28 for a music CD in the shops here in Norway.
so thats far from exspensive.

Mordalles

congrats on finishing the project,  i can't support your efforts (no job, live in a 3rd world country  :'() but heres wishing you the best with the sales.  ;)

  ;D

"It's a fairy! She's naked! Curse these low-res graphics!" - Duty and Beyond

Serth

Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 22/09/2006 00:48:11
QuoteWhy? I really don't know, maybe because I have other games in my play-list, maybe because there are so many good freeware games that I can still play for free (White Chamber, KQIII, Apprentice, etc), maybe because I prefer brick-and-mortar shops rather than online ones. But the thing is that I would have already bought the game if it costed  you$s 20. Maybe it's a "consumer's mental barrier" ut it certainly makes a difference for me.

I'm curious, do you honestly think like this when the new Half Life or Broken Sword is out to buy--that there are plenty of free games out and the commercial ones are too expensive anyway?  If your honest answer is no then you are doing these people (and any other independent developer who wants to make a living at making games) an injustice.  If it's your opinion that the game doesn't look 'worth' $30 dollars then that's something I can understand, but your current explanation is somewhat confusing.



Sure, In fact I am not even considering buying the new Broken sword game or the Half-Life episodes. I mean, I am not interested in those games since the type of games I prefer the most are point and click with tons and descriptions and huge inventories (much like Discworld). So, Al Emmo should fit perfectly on my taste. The thing is that with the wide variety of quality-freeware games available, I am not willing to pay more than 20 bucks for any commercial title, unless it's something that really gets into me (Let's say, the upcoming "A vampire Story" or Jensen's "Gray Matter").

Nikolas

I can understand your reasoning, but this way you're basically accusing (an ugly word but still), freware games for not buying a commercial one. :o That is indeed something that I would consider, but find that by actually buying a game once a year (because lte's face it how many commercial games, were out this year? 3?), you actually also support the freeware game and the whole of the community.

Damn you AGS community for making good freeware titles! Damn you ;D

calacver

I don't agree with nikolas. How is supporting the commercial games like al emmo helping or supporting other independent/freeware game makers. I also would rather spend my money on something like Vampyre Story. Al Emmo isn't up to standard with the price and cannot be compared to something like half-life. There are too many freeware adventures around that are more fun and less forced in humour. Better/Equal and more consistent graphics. Al Emmo is a great game for an amateur game. Badly drawn backgrounds and voice acting (among other things) throws it way off course from anything of the classic gaming as well (since one won't pay 30 bucks for them neither these days). The classic games had very good professional graphics and were outstanding and pro in all aspects. Al Emmo just not good enough in my opinion for what you are asking. And the 3D is aweful in it. I'd rather support Dave Gilbert or Yahtzee or other donate games (if I wasn't a poor student)

But still Al emmo is a good game, and this is just my opinion.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

QuoteI have yet to find anything about half-life II that isn't well constructed. Also, you can't say that a game is bad because the graphics are good. I also seriously doubt you would say anything good about Al Elmo if the graphics were ASCII characters.

I found many things tedious and just plain unfun about HL 2, but this is a discussion about Al Emmo and why some people don't think it is worth the price.  Apparently you don't play Roguelikes, but games with ASCII graphics are still intensely popular for their gameplay!


d200

Al Emmo is a fantastic game in its own genre. In my reckoning the 2d backgrounds are drawn fantastically, while the writing(especially the narrating) is absolutely aweinspiring. However, it is your classical, golden-age style stylized adventure game, not a shoot-em-up mindless game of action rather than wit as popular nowadays.

Nikolas

Well if you consider that some people may be making a living out of commercial games, or if not, maybe that they put a lot of money in. making a game is not a 1 person job, although some poeple here do it supperbly. Sometimes it takes a large team, and this team has to make a living. If a composer, for example gets paid 10,000$ (a low price actually for 2 hour soundtrack), and the same goes for graphic sdesingers, animateurs etc... the budget goes up to 50-60,000$ (the numbers are just examples). How do you expect a team like that to survive?

I find the excuse that are freeware games out there, a poor one, that's why my whole argument.

Of course, if you consider that Himalaya are behind KQ1 and 2, then you might see how supporting them supprots freeware games as well as the community. Same with Dave. He's done soooo many things for the comunity, as well as many games. And now that he decided to go that extra step, he's almost accused of it (OT sorry everybody).

The main thing is this:

Al Emmo maybe good or bad, but since it is commercial, all the way, with a pack and soundtrack and all that, the price is their point. Al Emmo may become the worst game in history for all I care, still since it is commercial that is the price that commercial games have. Simple! Asking for a lower price would mean many things, including the comment : " I know the game is not much worth it, so take it cheaply". How does this sound? Nice? Don't think so...

calacver

I buy games on the quality, not feeling sorry for those making it. I struggle as much as the next, but if you gonna make a commercial game it should look and feel commercial. It doesn't. There are most polished freeware games I can play, and so I will. I won't post here again, just gave my opinion, as the game is overpriced, doesn't matter who made it. It's got bad 3D graphics/animation of ten years ago, the 2D graphics have flaws (though it is better than a lot of freeware graphics, but some freeware are equal/better and it is definitely less than I would expect from something commercial).

Nikolas

Quote from: calacver on Fri 22/09/2006 17:41:03
I won't post here again, just gave my opinion, as the game is overpriced, doesn't matter who made it.
Good for you. I did the same thing (gave my opinion) :)

For me, games have 1 price, CDs have 1 price. A CD sold half price, means that it's out of fashion, or faulty or something, and thier trying ot sell it. Simple. A game just came out, shouldn't be like that.

anyway your opinion about the qualtiy, and mine as well. :)

BTW. Who said enything about buying of feeling sorry? I'm just explaining how the whole commercial venue, may work! It tkaes money to make something so big, and they need to pay the bills. Giving the game away for free, or telling everybody that the game sucks, won't help them!

I don't think that the game sucks! I strugle as the next as well. I bought it, and I'm enjoying playing it, more than a lot of games. But of course I have also enjoyed other games, commercial and freeware as well :)

somehow it seems that for you the game does not reach your top 10 and for that it shouldn't be commercial. At least this is what I get, with the arguments, there are better games/grahpics/sound/whatever. So? Of course there are. No one here came and said, this game has the best graphics ever! Or the best anything, but for the size, and effort it is comercial.

I won't post anymore either. Let's take it to PM if you want ;)

(But of course had to saythe last word :P ... ;D ;D ;D)

calacver

#52
Quote from: Nikolas on Fri 22/09/2006 18:24:46
Quote from: calacver on Fri 22/09/2006 17:41:03
I won't post here again, just gave my opinion, as the game is overpriced, doesn't matter who made it.
Good for you. I did the same thing (gave my opinion) :)

For me, games have 1 price, CDs have 1 price. A CD sold half price, means that it's out of fashion, or faulty or something, and thier trying ot sell it. Simple. A game just came out, shouldn't be like that.

anyway your opinion about the qualtiy, and mine as well. :)

BTW. Who said enything about buying of feeling sorry? I'm just explaining how the whole commercial venue, may work! It tkaes money to make something so big, and they need to pay the bills. Giving the game away for free, or telling everybody that the game sucks, won't help them!

I don't think that the game sucks! I strugle as the next as well. I bought it, and I'm enjoying playing it, more than a lot of games. But of course I have also enjoyed other games, commercial and freeware as well :)

somehow it seems that for you the game does not reach your top 10 and for that it shouldn't be commercial. At least this is what I get, with the arguments, there are better games/grahpics/sound/whatever. So? Of course there are. No one here came and said, this game has the best graphics ever! Or the best anything, but for the size, and effort it is comercial.

I won't post anymore either. Let's take it to PM if you want ;)

(But of course had to saythe last word :P ... ;D ;D ;D)

You are assuming things. A game doesn't have to be in my top 10 to pass for commercial, it must simply feel and play and look professional. Professional is well-done consistent graphics, it doesn't even have to be standards of today, but if it wasn't (as al emmo isn't) it shouldn't be priced like commercial games of today. End of story.

Most people here would love to make adventure games for a living, a lot most likely have that dream here. But most are realistic. Bringing a group of amateurs together (apart from the musicians since I don't know music that well, and from what I can tell the composers are really more than professional) doesn't make the game pro. You get skilled artists that can be professional. I don't think the 3D was even close to professional, it more resembles 3D of years past and that alone doesn't in my mind give this game standard price of today. You can't go make an amateur graphically outdated game and expect to charge it similar to biggest games on he market. Games don't have one price. The graphics in this game is amateur, it's insulting to what classic games were. The 3D animation was aweful, outdated, the character rigging was aweful. It looked like someone still learning the basics in 3D, that's not how you make a commercial game. According to this game most of the freeware games in production here and of recent times can go for 30 bucks (should they be made longer)

I just gave my opinion, it's no need to try and force me to change it. Let it go. I won't post in your thread anymore nikolas  ;) (nor your forums)

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

Ok, so I actually got a friend who bought it. So I borrowed it from him, like I do with some commercial games. Meaning, I've played it without buying it.

Bottom line - I'm glad I didn't pay for it. Here's my take on the game:

First off, the bottom line may make people think I didn't like the game. Nothing could be further from the truth. It was exceedingly enjoyable up to Act 9, and even though I do have a couple of gripes with that act it remained enjoyable throughout. This has been a true work of love, and it shows. The detail is amazing. The voice acting could be better, but it's already better than many commercial games out there. The game is fun, fun, fun to play.

Why wouldn't I pay for it? Overpriced, IMHO. For one thing, the game's length is against it - I mean, the game is quite big, but gameplay is actually quite short. Dunno, maybe I'm just too good an adventure player. Though the game did seem to hint a lot. I don't mind that, since I play mostly for the story.

Ah yeah, the story. Well, that's the main reason I'm glad I didn't pay for it. It was fun. It was cute. But it's definitely not what I'm looking for when I play an adventure game, and this is coming from the guy who bought Larry 7. I dunno, something about it just didn't strike the right chord. I have to say I think it's a wonderful mix of Larry and Freddy Pharkas, plus its very own style... but somehow, it didn't do it for me.

Something that should be noted is that this game shows that 3D characters in non-3D adventure games are really superfluous. The models' quality should have been higher, but they look just as good as they would if they were actually 3D characters. In fact, I think this way even made them look somewhat smoother.

Ok, basically - overpriced, guys. Great game, but overpriced, especially since it promises exactly what it delivers - a fun little romp through the west in a "get-the-girl" game. And I certainly wouldn't pay all this money for a fun little romp.
Reach for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

Kneel. Now.

Never throw chicken at a Leprechaun.

skyfire2

#54
Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 22/09/2006 16:12:22
I found many things tedious and just plain unfun about HL 2, but this is a discussion about Al Emmo and why some people don't think it is worth the price.Ã,  Apparently you don't play Roguelikes, but games with ASCII graphics are still intensely popular for their gameplay!

You didn't answer my question correctly, I said no one would play Al Elmo if it was in ASCII characters. I did not say no one plays any video games with ASCII questions. You may say that HL 2 is bad because it doesn't have too much dialogue but they say a picture's worth a thousand words. Correct me if I'm wrong but I bet you don't like new games because you're no good at them.

voh

I would agree with Rui. It's been discussed over and over, that 30 USD seems quite steep for a first game by a "company formerly known as amateur game makers" (not an insult, but it is fairly true, no?). The problem with this price is that if you pay 30 USD for it, you're going to expect the same enjoyment as you got from other 30 USD games you purchased. It so happens I've got a stack of those lying right here, and most of them are classics in their own right. Sure, they probably came out and cost 50 USD, or even 60 for the somewhat more recent games in the stack, but I happen to be of the opinion that 50 USD for a game is ridiculous.

The best games I've ever played were in 320x200 or 320x240. Resolution = nothing. Not to the adventure gamer. Not to the adventure gamer who longs for more games like in the golden days.

If you were trying to attract new gamers as well, rather than the established base of point and click oldskoolers, choosing a mix of Larry + Freddy Pharkas may not have been the best choice.

Besides, I hated Freddy Pharkas and felt Larry was so-so. I'm a LucasArts adventures fanboi :p

Bottom-line: 20 USD would've been a better price. Mostly because it would pull a lot of doubters over that threshold of purchasing a game made by a studio which has (afaik) only made remakes up to now, which (while labor intensive) rather easy compared to an original game, and definitely not subjected to your own creativity. Remakes don't show the personality anyone but the original creators.

It's not a very good way of building a reputation of making good games. It's a good way of building a reputation of making good remakes of games. I think that may have something to do with why some people are hesitant (whether they realize it or not), as it seems that it's my main reason for being careful about it. And I didn't realize that until I'd already decided I wasn't going to buy the game for 30.
Still here.

Peder 🚀

YEAH, $30 is alot sure.

But how much do you think they put into the game?
How much money do you think they used on it?

And would really more people buy it if it was $20?


The disccusion with HL2 etc I dont like!
THIS IS NOT HL2!!
This is an Adventure Point And Click game!!
Comparing this with HL2 is wrong to me!!

If you dont like the demo, then just dont buy it.
If you like the demo, then BUY IT!

If you like it! its worth the money!


Yeah, I agree about the 3D,
I did not like this!
but saying the backgrounds are CRAP etc. is just wrong!!
comparing it to HL2 is wrong!!

I feel this is just a stupid discussion and I think we should not use this thread to discuss why people dont want to buy it.

this thread is to discuss the game itself.



so:

About the Game.
I still only have been able to play the demo as I dont have enough space for the game on this machine and the other machine here dont play AGS games (gonna have to fix this!!)

When I started the game and saw the 3D I thought, "arf. I not gonna like this." (though I dont think 3D belongs to the adventure games genre)
And for all I know I might end up liking the 3D in the end and feel that it fits :).

Then I heard Al Emmos voice, and I thought again I wasent gonna like this.
But after watching the intro scene a while I got more and more used to his voice and now I actually thinks its good!.

When I finally was done watching the 3D cutscene I could start playing.
Though the game was going a bit slow (this is offcourse all my computers fault) I really liked it when I started playing.

I think the Backgrounds are lovely and all the special effects on them are looking great!

I cant wait to get the full version playing on the other computer and I must say I must have listened to the soundtrack cd at least 10 times till now!!!!


I wish you good luck in selling the game and looking forward to another adventure from you :).

Peder.

ManicMatt

So $30 is about £16, according to a currency converter.

Guess how much I can buy the new Broken Sword at on Amazon? £18. And I can have it without paying for P&P if I don't mind waiting a few days longer.

So I'd have to agree that the price is too much.

But, I'll still go and play the demo soon!

Rui 'Trovatore' Pires

QuoteIf you like it! its worth the money!

I liked it, I really did. I played it through, addictively. But in my mind, it's still not worth $30. Just wanted to make this clear - I really liked the game, and it deserves to be a commercial title for many reasons. Just at a lower price. $20 does seem more reasonable.
Reach for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars.

Kneel. Now.

Never throw chicken at a Leprechaun.

Candle

Game is nice but I need to buy a new computer as mine died so I can't buy it.

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk