Vote Americans, Vote!

Started by Anarcho, Tue 07/11/2006 17:30:36

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TheYak

An interesting election for me, locally. I've heard all of the national results over and over, but California's surprises me.  In, what is arguably, the most liberal state, the voting trends mirrored national politics from the past four years.  Numerous multi-billion dollar bonds were approved while any increase in parcel taxes or consumer-based taxes were rejected.  The flood-prevention 4 billion-dollar bond was approved, likely due to remembrance of Katrina. Prop 90, seemingly meant to curb abuse of eminent domain, was shot down, and alternative energy research money was rejected. 

I expected the usual knee-jerk reaction by Californians of approving anything associated with the Democrats' agenda, so was a little surprised.  I wonder how things are going to go with a national Democrat legislative majority.  I'm guessing it won't be that different.

DGMacphee

Quote from: Anarcho on Sat 11/11/2006 04:59:52
QuoteYou tell me not to throw insults around before calling me a dickhead. Way to take the moral high ground!

It was meant to be a joke, you know, I take the moral high ground and tell you not to throw around insults, then i use one.  Ha ha.  Guess you didn't get it.

Oh sorry, I guess didn't see it. Maybe if you weren't acting like a crybaby, I would have.

QuoteDude, Hillary could have run for senate in Arkansas in 2002, if you want to be so literal about it.

No she couldn't. She's already a Senator for New York. Duh!

Interestingly, Republican Senator Tim Hutchinson was defeated by Democratic challenger Mark Pryor after Hutchinson got a lot of negative publicity from a his marriage scandal (divorced his wife and married one of his staff). Hillary had a damn good chance in 02 as well.

QuoteSo I'm not exactly sure what "facts" I've gotten wrong.  I was sharing my "opinions" and didn't intend to write a thesis for the adventure game development community.  If you want to call my "opinions" rhetoric, then go ahead.  But I'll keep sharing them.

You were trying to tell me that Hillary could have run for Arkansas instead of New York in 2000 and in doing so she would have lost. I said this was impossible to do since Arkansas didn't hold a Senate election that year.

It's a dumb hypothetical based upon faulty information. You got called out. Deal with it and move on.

As for rhetoric, you've basically gone on and on and on with your posts without anything to back them up.

QuoteI'm pretty sure that all I said was that HILLARY had no chance of getting elected President,

Uh, no. You said: "Also, there's a really nasty streak of anti-feminist, anti-women-as-leaders resentment in the media and public at large that would make her candidacy problematic."

If there is such a problem with "women-as-leaders" and them being seen as "bitches", why are people electing representitives in the House and the Senate?

And if they're electing women in such offices, why not the president?

If there's such resentment with gender roles and misogyny, why is there a growing number of representitives? Why was there speculation over "Hillary vs Condi" a few months back in regard to 2008?

Quote
QuoteSure, there's some perception of "women leaders=uh oh", but I do think that times have changed to the point where enough states realise that maybe a woman in power isn't such a bad thing.

it's clear that you haven't driven around places like Arkansas, or Texas, or Iowa, or Missouri.

Just a minute ago you said Arkansas has had a female Senator.

And Senator McCaskill in Missouri.

What I'm trying to say is that things are changing. And according to the information I've presented, it's still likely that Hillary will lead the Dems in 2008.

Quote
But for the record, last time let's get this straight, I will make my opinion clear.  I think women in general have more of an up hill battle when running for office, especially in more rural "red state" areas.  I think lots of people, especially in rural "red state" areas, have very negative reactions towards Hillary, and those reactions have everything to do with her history as First lady and the fact that she was an independent, strong-willed woman.  For that reason, I don't think she'd fare well as a candidate for the Presidency.

Look, I don't deny that a lot of people in red states have a negative perception of Hillary and women as leaders in general. But you seem to think that the 2008 election rests of Red States. What about swing states?

And in regards to swing states, I can only say this: things change, my friend. More people will start to realise that women-on-top aren't as scary as people would think. A lot of the swing states voted for Bush in 00 and 04, but this year they've voted differently. They've put Pelosi in charge.

If Pelosi is the first female majority house speaker, what's to stop Hillary?
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TheYak

Quote from: DGMacphee on Sat 11/11/2006 08:44:44
More people will start to realise that women-on-top aren't as scary as people would think.

And with that sentence I swing to DG's side of the argument.  Women-on-top in '08!

DGMacphee

It's like Robin Williams says, if there was a woman president there'd never, ever be any wars. Just every 28 days some severe negotiations.
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Anarcho

Acting like a crybaby?  That's just great.  Are you fifteen?  I'm done talking to you.  You haven't even read my posts, and I'm tired of repeating myself. 

Snarky, I think you sum up Hillary's situation quite well. 

I'm not sure that it's a good idea for Gore to run again, but he's definitely impressed me these past couple years with his movie and speaking campaigns.  But the democrats need a fresh face. 

Obama is in a tricky situation.  He's really hot right now, and it's hard to tell if that will last.  If he doesn't run in '08, either as a Presidential candidate or as a VP and a democrat gets elected, that could potentially be 8 or 16 years before there's an open ticket.  You know he's thinking about it.  Plus, the longer someone's a senator, the more bullshit votes they get involved with, the more they can be called a flip flopper, the more they say stupid things like "i voted for the war before I voted against it."

It's hard for senators to run for this reason, and probably one of the reasons a senator hasn't been elected in 46 years.


Raggit

--- BARACK OBAMA '08 ---
www.barackobama.com

Anarcho




DGMacphee

Quote from: Anarcho on Sat 11/11/2006 15:41:49
Acting like a crybaby?  That's just great.  Are you fifteen?  I'm done talking to you.  You haven't even read my posts, and I'm tired of repeating myself.

You're calling me fifteen but you're the one getting stroppy and saying "I'm not talking to you anymore!!!" like some pre-schooler. Well, waa, waa, waa, I'm not talking to you either cause you're a poopy-head. You also smell.

P.S. When you cry, make sure you don't get any tears on your petticoat.
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ildu

Ok, stop it. Arguing over the Internet is completely stupid. We're all idiots, except me :).

Nacho

Sorry, I haven' t been reading all this thread, and maybe I am severelly pissing it off, but... Daniel, Anarcho has allways prooven to be smart and respectfull... and I think this even after having deep disagrees with him!

I' ve took a glance in this thread and I don' t think that he deserves this... Ã, :-\

My two cents.
Are you guys ready? Let' s roll!

EagerMind

Quote from: TheYak on Sat 11/11/2006 07:25:18I wonder how things are going to go with a national Democrat legislative majority.  I'm guessing it won't be that different.

I suspect you're right. Even though the Democrats made huge gains off of dissatification with Iraq, I think people are fooling themselves if they think there's going to be a huge policy change or some quick and easy solution. The problem with Iraq isn't how to get out, the problem is that we're even there to begin with. I suspect that with a new Secretary of Defense we'll see a concerted effort at putting new political spin on the issue.

Anarcho

My fear is that the Democrats will fall into the same trap as the Republicans, thinking there will be point in which Iraq "stabilizes" and it will be possible to pull out troops without causing a civil war.  The damage is done, and no matter how many troops you pour into that country, it's not going to stabilize until we're gone. 

Bush started this war, but it will unfortunately be up to someone else to pull out the troops.  I just hope the democrats have the will power to do the right thing, or for the time being, pressure Bush to do the right thing. 


DGMacphee

Announced today: Feingold won't run for Pres in 2008.

Quote"I'm sure a campaign for President would have been a great adventure and helpful in advancing a progressive agenda. At this time, however, I believe I can best advance that progressive agenda as a Senator with significant seniority in the new Senate serving on the Foreign Relations, Intelligence, Judiciary and Budget Committees," the senator explained. "Although I have given it a lot of thought, I cannot muster the same enthusiasm for a race for President while I am trying simultaneously to advance our agenda in the Senate. In other words, if I really wanted to run for President, regardless of the odds or other possible candidates, I would do so. However, to put my family and all of my friends and supporters through such a process without having a very strong desire to run, seems inappropriate to me. And, yes, while I would strongly prefer that our nominee in 2008 be someone who had the judgment to oppose the Iraq war from the beginning, I am prepared to work as hard as I can through the Progressive Patriots Fund, and consistent with my duties in the Senate, to maintain or increase our gains from November 7 in the Congress and, of course, to elect a Democrat as President in 2008."

I'm a little disappointed but can understand his reasons not to run.
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