Jibble

Author Topic: Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing  (Read 57898 times)

scotch

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Yeah, as I said, when God specifically gives you permission it's condoned. God breaks a lot of his rules for humans, so it's obvious he's above them. I don't think that means that people are permitted to kill of their own volition... "playing God" is generally seen as a bad thing. Only he's allowed to be a bastard!

Meowster

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SD has believed in what he's been TOLD about god, but he's only been taught very select things about him. If he sits down to read the bible one day like A GOOD CHRISTIAN SHOULD, I'm sure he'll be horrified at what he sees. Perhaps when he sees god ordering babies to be murdered, women to be raped, children to be savaged... when he sees jesus encouraging polygamy... maybe then he'll reconsider how accurate the things god thinks about gay people are. Maybe he'll take a step back and think about what it is that he's REALLY believing in.


I've read the entire Bible, and nowhere have I read it condoning abortion, rape, or anything like that. You are making bold assumptions.


Hahhahaha Vince.

I'd also just like to point out that I'm not making "bold assumptions". I've read the Bible, and I'm pointing out things that are said in it. That's not making a "bold assumption".

As I said before, yodaman... I dare you to read your bible and compare it to the stories that have been posted up so far. Read the stories where God tells people to rape women and to fuck your dead brother's wife. They give the location of each piece of the bible they quote so it shouldn't take long to find them.



Scotch: Have you read everything that's been posted and quoted from the bible? Do you believe in everything that happened in the Old Testament?

You think that it's ok for god to order rapes, mass murders, polygamy, killing children, murdering innocent babies, shunning the innocent children of bastards for 10 generations, forcing women to marry their rapists, or killing women who are raped if they didn't scream loud enough ... You believe this stuff is true and that we should live by those morals?

yodaman does.

scotch

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I've read the entire Bible, yes, a long time ago... I was bored. And you'd have to be... it's a rambling collection of exaggerated history and a lot of mythology. I don't think many of the things in the Old Testament actually happened in any form close to how they are recorded in the versons of the biblical texts that we have today, no...

And I don't know if I've disagreed with you on any point... I was just saying that what yodaman said about the Bible not promoting murder could be seen to be true, because the only general rule about murder in there is that you should not do it, at all. God doesn't follow this rule at all, of course, and he uses people as pawns in his by our standards twisted and sick games.

I don't necessarily think you're meant to see the OT God's actions as fair, kind, good, or moral... I'm not sure what Yodaman thinks of his god, but if I believed in him I'd see him as something to be feared.

Yodaman appears to have a bizarre mixture of acceptance that God is a mass murderer who kills anyone that puts stuff in the wrong hole or happens to be in the same city, as well as the idea that he's a moral creature that is doing good. Which is a bit scary.

Meowster

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Yeah, it's that that bothers me.

I've met plenty of Fundamentalist Christians who have sworn that everything in the old testament is true. So there are people who believe this stuff and still worship the god that they believe did it all.

Crazy.

If Yodaman is going to believe in the OT and the NT, and is going to base his morals on things that are written in those books, then he's going to have to accept what's REALLY in them, not just what glossed over tidbits he's been fed by his parents/church. As long as he admits that he can read all those parables and paragraphs and things, and accept that God did all of those wicked, wicked, horrible sinful things, and accept that if his brother dies he'll shag his brother's wife, etc etc... then fine. If he wants to live his life by such twisted, perverted morals then that's fine, I'll probably never meet him anyway.

But I find it interesting because he's already stated that he thinks things like Polygamy are perverted, and I assume he finds it perverted to order the rape of hundreds of women or the murder of 42 children... so I'll be very interested to see how he reacts to seeing how these perverted things are actually all in the bible, right there.

I'll be interested to see if he refuses to look them up in the bible for fear that he'll see the real god that he worships, or if he changes his mind and thinks it's okay to do those things after all, or if he perhaps takes a step back and thinks about how "good" his god really is.

And perhaps he'll reconsider how perverted Homosexuality really is. I mean, if God of the OT likes rape and polygamy and child murder and things, is god's opinion of homosexuality REALLY relevant?

You know in the Bible it states that if your child speaks back to you, you should stone them? I read that before... I'll try to find the location of it for you, Yodaman.

Furthermore, God says homosexuals should be put to death. If you believe God is good, and god is true, and you will do gods bidding... why don't you kill homosexuals, Yodaman? Why do you let them continue to plague the earth and make other people gay with their GAY DISEASE omg. Bit hypocritical of you, don't you think? Or are you a little doubtful over the morals in what god says...

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)


I don't want SD to be under the impression his god, as he believes in from the OT and the NT, is a good, kind, forgiving and loving and fair god. If he wants to believe in him as told by those books, then he is basically a devil worshipper. God is a jealous, angry, wrathful, threatening, cruel being, if anything.

yodaman. Read those parts of the bible. Let me know how you feel about them.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 12:59 by Meowster »

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Being not so very knowledgeable about the Bible, I'd say the reason he doesn't do this is because:

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone"

I think (according to most Christians I know), the Crime and Punishment parts of the OT are abrogated by that statement.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 13:03 by Babar »
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As I said before, yodaman... I dare you to read your bible and compare it to the stories that have been posted up so far. Read the stories where God tells people to rape women and to fuck your dead brother's wife. They give the location of each piece of the bible they quote so it shouldn't take
long to find them.

I never saw any references except saying it was from the Old Testament. Do you know how long the Old Testament is? I'm not going to spend hours looking through it so I can find some stuff you guys made up. 

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"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I don't want SD to be under the impression his god, as he believes in from the OT and the NT, is a good, kind, forgiving and loving and fair god. If he wants to believe in him as told by those books, then he is basically a devil worshipper. God is a jealous, angry, wrathful, threatening, cruel being, if anything.

God says that people shouldn't kill other people, so if homosexuals are supposed to be killed, I'll leave that to God, thank you very much. 

And you know what? God never mentions lesbians. He only says men; so when he says 'put to death', he's obviously talking about getting STDs from two men having anal sex. I know you may be saying "But the first documented case of AIDs was in the 80s", however it was only discovered then because homosexuality just started to become prevalent then. I imagine if two men had anal sex back in Bible times, they'd likely have gotten some kind of disease too. 

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But I find it interesting because he's already stated that he thinks things like Polygamy are perverted, and I assume he finds it perverted to order the rape of hundreds of women or the murder of 42 children... so I'll be very interested to see how he reacts to seeing how these perverted things are actually all in the bible, right there.

I'll be interested to see if he refuses to look them up in the bible for fear that he'll see the real god that he worships, or if he changes his mind and thinks it's okay to do those things after all, or if he perhaps takes a step back and thinks about how "good" his god really is.


I'm not afraid to see them, for fear about how 'good' God is. I actually want to see them, because I'm curious to see how much you've taken scripture out of context. Why don't you post some references, as I haven't seen any (and the homosexual reference didn't count; I mean references to rape and polygamy, abortion, etc).

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Steel Drummer, would you PLEASE look up the bible passages mentioned here:
http://mwillett.org/atheism/family.htm
Then tell us either that you were talking b.s. and are really wrong or that the "bible" you've read was completely rewritten by the religious cult you belong to.

I went to the site, and already; the first reference had been taken scripture out of context. Example: It says that "In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children" (Genesis 3:16); is saying that bearing children is a punishment. It's not. At first, it wouldn't have been. But when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, He told them a bunch of stuff, and: "In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children." 

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• Most of us would say that incest is against the interests of the family. Yet Lot, whom the Bible considers to be a very good man, had sex with his two daughters (Genesis 19:33-36); and there was no punishment for either Lot or the daughters. Indeed, it might well be argued that Lot must have had divine help in this, since he was able to perform sexually despite being both very old and very drunk! In defense of the girls, it must be noted that they had no mother to guide them, because some time earlier God got peeved and killed her (Genesis 19:26), and apparently also the two men who were engaged to marry the girls (Genesis 19:14).

But later on, Lot was killed by God.

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• In order to gain favor with a king, Abraham said that his wife was his sister, and offered her to the king for sex. This happened twice (Genesis 12:11 and Genesis 20:2). Isaac did a similar thing (Genesis 26:6-10). And Lot (Genesis 19:8) once offered his virgin daughters to be used by a mob at Sodom. (St. Peter called Lot a "righteous man", 2 Peter 2:8)

1. Lot was righteous in a sense- he lived in a terribly sinful city, and he was the only remotely righteous man there, I think that's was Peter meant.

2. Everybody sins and makes mistakes, like Abraham. God will still love them. Just because Abraham did something immoral to gain the king's favor, doesn't mean that God will give up His plans for Abraham. After all, God told Abraham that he would be the father of many nations, so you think that God would just kill him off?

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• The last of the plagues brought upon the Egyptians was the death of all their first-born children, because The Lord hardened the heart of Pharoah (Exodus 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10). Couldn't he have SOFTENED Pharoah's heart and spared all those innocent children? Maybe Egyptian families don't matter.

God did that to show Pharaoh His power, and to (hopefully) change Pharaoh's heart.

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• Jesus ridiculed his own mother in public: Woman, what have I to do with thee? (John 2:4) This, of course, was a direct violation of the commandment about honoring one's parents, which Jesus said he agreed with (Matt. 15:4 and several other places). On another occasion he refused to see his mother and brothers, answering their request with a wisecrack (Matt. 12:46-50). And when someone praised Mary, Jesus disagreed (Luke 11:27-8).

1. Jesus 'ridiculing' his mother: He said this because He didn't feel like turning the water into wine. He said 'My hour has not yet come', meaning "the time hasn't come for Me to reveal myself to everyone."

2. He doesn't answer with a 'wise crack' He's trying to teach a lesson by saying "Whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is my brother, sister, and mother." Does that sound like a wisecrack to you??

3.
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And when someone praised Mary, Jesus disagreed
They were assuming a stance of worship upon Mary. They weren't simply 'complimenting' Mary. This verse actually is a major blow on the Catholic church, as someone says "Blessed is the womb that bore you", and Jesus says "No. Blessed rather are those who hear My Father's word and obey Him."

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• Jesus promised his followers great rewards if they would desert their wives and children (Matt. 19:29).

Jesus is telling them to forsake the 'earthly' sort of things.

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• Jesus says very clearly that anyone who wants to be his disciple must hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters (Luke 14:26).
 

Again, Jesus is saying to give up the earthly things to serve Him. My pastor had a sermon on this just last week. 

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• And then there is: For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household (Matt. 10:35-36).


Haha! This is taken way out of context. 

Jesus is saying that there will be division because of Him. You've seen it on these forums; there is a lot of disagreeing and division because of Jesus. 

I've already disproved a lot of those verses (which, by the way, were heavily taken out of context). I might post a few more later today, but I think that's probably enough.

« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 15:21 by Steel Drummer »
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Nacho

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I believe that God turned into flesh, came, behaved as a man, then noticed it' s divinity, behaving as a superior entity, and gave his life for us after doing miracles.

I believe in him because I saw him, and saw him die.

13 years without Ayrton Senna... I still miss you, my friend.

« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 15:37 by Nacho »
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Meowster

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I never saw any references except saying it was from the Old Testament. Do you know how long the Old Testament is? I'm not going to spend hours looking through it so I can find some stuff you guys made up. 

Lazy. And in Denial.

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God says that people shouldn't kill other people, so if homosexuals are supposed to be killed, I'll leave that to God, thank you very much. 

Cursed be he who does the Lords work remissly, cursed he who holds back his sword from blood.  (Jeremiah 48:10 NAB)

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And you know what? God never mentions lesbians. He only says men; so when he says 'put to death', he's obviously talking about getting STDs from two men having anal sex. I know you may be saying "But the first documented case of AIDs was in the 80s", however it was only discovered then because homosexuality just started to become prevalent then. I imagine if two men had anal sex back in Bible times, they'd likely have gotten some kind of disease too. 

Leviticus 20:13 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)
 13 "If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths.


"Must be put to death" very clearly implies that they must be executed, but if you're splitting hairs about it, then perhaps you can defend why god says women who aren't virgins should be stoned and all that bullshit.

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I'm not afraid to see them, for fear about how 'good' God is. I actually want to see them, because I'm curious to see how much you've taken scripture out of context. Why don't you post some references, as I haven't seen any (and the homosexual reference didn't count; I mean references to rape and polygamy, abortion, etc).


Okay.

Murder, rape and pillage of the Midianites    (Numbers 31:7-18 NLT)
    They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men.  All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle.  They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword.  Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder.  They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived.  After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.
    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.


More Murder Rape and Pillage   (Deuteronomy 20:10-14)
 
     As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace.  If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor.  But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town.  When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town.  But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder.  You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.
Death to the Rape Victim   (Deuteronomy 22:23-24 NAB)
    If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.


Do you want more, yodaman?
I find it really funny that you've claimed we've obviously made these stories up, because in so saying, you've already admitted how shit you think god is. You've basically admitted that you've read them and don't believe them because it doesn't seem like something you think God would do. Now even when you find them in the Bible, it will be extremely hard for you to defend them, considering you've already admitted you don't believe them.. presumably because they're really horrible stories about god.
 

Do you want more stories and their exact location within the bible?

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Steel Drummer,

I have a question for you...


When Adam and Eve ate the apple, why did that automatically curse the entire human race with sin?  Why didn't the rest of us ever get a chance at the tree of knowledge of good and evil?  Why did God even put the tree there to begin with?  He knew that they'd sin.  That's sort of like entrapment, is it not?

This is what sealed it for me.  I decided for myself that, if God is real, and he is the way the Bible says he is, I want nothing to do with him.  If the mistakes of two humans is all it takes for him to curse the entire race to sin, I want nothing to do with him.
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Meowster

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Oh, I see you edited your post.

Then I will just add this:

To say that jesus said "You must hate your family" but meant "You must leave behind worldly possessions" is the equivelent of saying,

When jesus said that men must not lie with other men or they will be killed, what he really meant is, "Homosexuality is absolutely great."

Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean you can twist the words of the Bible around to suit yourself. You say that that website takes things out of context: so are you. In fact, when you think about it, you're also twisting jesus' words in a sinful way... to suit yourself.

God says you must hate your family. You don't want to hate your family or believe that Jesus hated his. So you ignore it and pretend that's not what he meant.

Hahahaha.

You evil, evil, sinful boy.

Anyway, was my previous post enough evidence for you that god condones these things? I can find plenty more. Plenty.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 15:44 by Meowster »

Steel Drummer

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Any people that God told His armies to put to death were evil civilizations. 

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    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. 

The women were to be killed because they were causing people to rebel against God. Now maybe the same can be said of you, Meowster, for trying to turn me from God.

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 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

    However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you.  Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

You left out a crucial part of that passage that brings 10-14 into context with 16-18. 

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Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

So... what's your point? There's nothing wrong in forcing a rapist to marry his victim. Then he won't go and do it again.
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MrColossal

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Are you satisfied yet, Yufster?
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

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Why? You don't know how old I am.

It can easely be guessed. Telling you how old I think you are won't change anything.  You're just the one who doesn't want to admit you may be too young, inexperienced and immature to participate. You changed twice your age in your profile since the begining of this thread, probably because you don't want us to have prejudice when reading your posts. Because I don't like to make statements without something to support my thoughts, I did a little investigation over the net, and found an interesting post made by you which confirmed what I thought.

I tell you, your behavior has already betrayed you.

Now, please accept the fact that you may not have the required experience, knowledge and maturity to keep posting in this topic.


Meowster, I mostly agree with what you say. I think your posts are usually interesting and relevant. However, I'm a little worried by the amount of energy you probably put in your posts, trying to convince someone who doesn't show any opening. In a way, by showing so much attention to him, you're feeding his ego, and what you gain in return probably are frustration and irritation, and he will keep posting absurdities. I'm not sure it's worth losing so much energy that way, by feeding a troll.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 15:56 by Dorcan »

Steel Drummer

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Any people that God told His armies to put to death were evil civilizations. 

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    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. 

The women were to be killed because they were causing people to rebel against God. Now maybe the same can be said of you, Meowster, for trying to turn me from God.

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 When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

    However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them—the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites—as the LORD your God has commanded you.  Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

You left out a crucial part of that passage that brings 10-14 into context with 16-18. 

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Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

So... what's your point?

You've basically given passages (taken out of context, once again) where people are told to destroy others (because the nations they were killed were evil).

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Oh, I see you edited your post.

Then I will just add this:

To say that jesus said "You must hate your family" but meant "You must leave behind worldly possessions" is the equivelent of saying,

When jesus said that men must not lie with other men or they will be killed, what he really meant is, "Homosexuality is absolutely great."

Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean you can twist the words of the Bible around to suit yourself. You say that that website takes things out of context: so are you. In fact, when you think about it, you're also twisting jesus' words in a sinful way... to suit yourself.

God says you must hate your family. You don't want to hate your family or believe that Jesus hated his. So you ignore it and pretend that's not what he meant.

Hahahaha.

You evil, evil, sinful boy.

Anyway, was my previous post enough evidence for you that god condones these things? I can find plenty more. Plenty. 


So because Jesus didn't want to worship His mother, it means He hates her? Those passages that they claimed 'Jesus hates His parents!', were taken completely out of context, and if you're stupid enough to still not see that, after I explained each one- you're stupid.
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vict0r

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There's nothing wrong in forcing a rapist to marry his victim. Then he won't go and do it again.

Haaahahahahaha!! Bwahahahahahaha xD Are you serious? Dude... When you grow up, you'll understand that this ain't the way it works.. But thanks! I haven't laughed this hard in some time! :)

@Meowster: I really admire the amount of work you put into this! Buuut.. The guy is 14 or something, and he'll prolly understand in some years. He is just being ignorant.

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Vict0r, I'm not 14. I have a son who likes using these forums that sometimes posts. He made that 2010: World of Chaos game. He's 14 now, but was 13 when making that game. Just clearing that up for you.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 16:06 by Steel Drummer »
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Meowster

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I know I'm putting a lot of effort into it, but I'm really enjoying it. If I was getting irritated, I wouldn't be bothering. But come on... he supports forcing a rapist to marry his victim!!! That's hilarious!


hmmm.

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Any people that God told His armies to put to death were evil civilizations.

What about when God commands that if some people in a village do not believe, they must all be put to death?

For example, your own example of the gay parade and hurricane katrina. How many good christians died that day? Very, very many did.

And here's an example from the Bible:

Deuteronomy 13:13 (The Message)
The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson
[The Message at Navpress] [NavPress]
 12-17 When word comes in from one of your cities that God, your God, is giving you to live in, reporting that evil men have gotten together with some of the citizens of the city and have broken away, saying, "Let's go and worship other gods" (gods you know nothing about), then you must conduct a careful examination. Ask questions, investigate. If it turns out that the report is true and this abomination did in fact take place in your community, you must execute the citizens of that town. Kill them, setting that city apart for holy destruction: the city and everything in it including its animals. Gather the plunder in the middle of the town square and burn it all—town and plunder together up in smoke, a holy sacrifice to God, your God. Leave it there, ashes and ruins. Don't build on that site again. And don't let any of the plunder devoted to holy destruction stick to your fingers. Get rid of it so that God may turn from anger to compassion, generously making you prosper, just as he promised your ancestors.



What about God commanding the following people be put to death:

1. Women who do not show signs of virginity the first time they have sex (remember, SD... I didn't show signs of virginity the first time *I* had sex...)

2. People who work on the Sabbath

3. An innocent baby

4. Innocent children





Oh and look at this:


   Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)



I also ask you this, Steel Drummer. Since you are a father. Imagine if you had a daughter, and a man raped her. Now, by your religion you should, by rights, force the rapist to marry your daughter. Would you do this?

Would you force a man who had forced your daughter, raped her and caused her so much pain... would you force her to marry him?

Answer.




« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 16:20 by Meowster »

big brother

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Settle down, Yufster. I know you're getting all excited about the Christian bashing, but don't get careless. Omitting context is a very elementary mistake.

The quote from Jeremiah is directed in a specific instance (Israelites under Babylonian rule, etc.), and your Torah quotes deal with the 40 years the Israelites spent in the desert and their start in the land He promised them. These lists were so specific because they address the culturally-accepted practices of the Canaanites. There's even instructions about dealing with moldy stones, bathing, and cleansing (thousands of years before Fracastoro).

God used the Israelites as a tool of judgment against the people of Canaan. He ordered them to even kill the wives and male offspring because He wanted to keep the Israelites apart rather than assimilating into another culture (its likely the plague mentioned refers to STDs). Barbaric? Look at it from another perspective: If I paint a picture and it displeases me, I can burn it. These people repeatedly flaunted their Creator and committed every abomination possible, so God arranged their destruction while giving territory to His chosen people to ensure their propagation.

It's easy to call this somewhat inconsistent with the teachings of the New Testament, but you have to remember that it was written before the Jesus' sacrifice and our atonement from sin. This new covenant negated many Old Testament practices (animal sacrifices, etc.).

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Raggit

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Vict0r, I'm not 14. I have a son who likes using these forums that sometimes posts. He made that 2010: World of Chaos game. He's 14 now, but was 13 when making that game. Just clearing that up for you.

Oh yes, I was doing voice work for that game.  How does your son feel about all these issues?

Which one of you actually created the account on this forum?  What is your interest in adventure games, have you made any? 

Just curious.  :) 
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Meowster

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I understand, Big Brother. What I'm pointing out is that God ordered the brutal killing of many people, and not just the killing of the men but also the brutal murder of their children in front of them, and the raping of their wives.

It doesn't matter how badly they disobeyed God. That is a completely evil act.

The difference between a painting and a human should be quite obvious. That's a terrible example. You ruin a painting and that is all you have done. You rape a woman, kill her children in front of her and then kill her? That's awful. And bear in mind that the women of those days mostly just obeying men... did they deserve this fate?

But, since Steel Drummer justifies it by saying that they were evil, I have given examples where god has ordered the murder of innocent people.

Steel Drummer himself did not believe those stories were in the Bible. He only defended them when he realised that they were. This in itself is so telling of how ill-educated he is on the subject of his own religion.

How would he like his own daughter to be forced to marry her rapist?
How does he justify god ordering innocent babies to be murdered?