Jibble

Author Topic: Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing  (Read 57880 times)

Does this mean that if I was to go and shoot a number of people because I thought they were evil, it would be OK? Or would I be insane?
Why isn't God insane?
i used to be indeceisive but now im not so sure!

MrColossal

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So... what's your point? There's nothing wrong in forcing a rapist to marry his victim. Then he won't go and do it again.

apparently I'm not even satisfied yet...

SteelDrummer, what if the woman doesn't want to marry the rapist?

Do you believe that once a man is married he is now incapable of raping another human? Or if he rapes his new wife is it not rape because they are married?

What happens if a man rapes another woman while he is current married to a different woman? Does he marry the new woman and divorce the old or is there some sort of rapist polygamy that is allowed?

Also, I can't imagine the mental gymnasitcs that goes on to equate consciously choosing to kill babies to throwing out a painting.
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You ruin a painting and that is all you have done. You rape a woman, kill her children in front of her and then kill her? That's awful. And bear in mind that the women of those days mostly just obeying men... did they deserve this fate?

There's only one Being who can say what anyone deserves. So they did. If you continue reading Jeremiah, you will find how God wept for the people He destroyed.

Quote
48:28 Leave your towns, you inhabitants of Moab. Go and live in the cliffs. Be like a dove that makes its nest high on the sides of a ravine.

48:29 I have heard how proud the people of Moab are, I know how haughty they are. I have heard how arrogant, proud, and haughty they are, what a high opinion they have of themselves.

48:30 I, the Lord, affirm that I know how arrogant they are. But their pride is ill-founded. Their boastings will prove to be false.

48:31. So I will weep with sorrow for Moab. I will cry out in sadness for all of Moab. I will moan for the people of Kir Heres.

48:36 So my heart moans for Moab like a flute playing a funeral song. Yes, like a flute playing a funeral song, my heart moans for the people of Kir Heres. For the wealth they have gained will perish.

48:47 "Yet in days to come I will reverse Moab's ill fortune.” says the Lord. The judgment against Moab ends here.

At a point, a person loses their humanity to the sin (by their own choice) and there is nothing redeemable left.

God created free will. It'd be arrogant to assume that we are somehow entitled to it.

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I have given examples where god has ordered the murder of innocent people.

According to Scripture, everyone is born into sin. No human is innocent, and on our own merits, we all deserve death.
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LimpingFish

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According to Scripture, everyone is born into sin. No human is innocent, and on our own merits, we all deserve death.

Well that's a hell of a way to start a ballgame!
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Meowster

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It alarms me how self-deprecating Christianity is, considering that God supposedly made everybody in his own image... and yet everybody is supposed to hate themselves. It's no wonder that he's so bi-polar...

According to Scripture, everyone is born into sin. No human is innocent, and on our own merits, we all deserve death.

So you still haven't explained why raped women should be stoned to death?

And explain to me exactly HOW no human is innocent. How is a newborn baby not innocent. In what way?

« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 20:21 by Meowster »

Andail

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I actually did this with my fishtank when I installed it. I proclaimed all the fish to be sinful. And none of them was innocent, mark my words; they kept chasing eachother, and they also managed to make the tank all dirty and filthy within months.

I mean, it's not like it was my fault that the tank got all clogged up and full of stinking algae. I gave the fish a good home and they ruined it, so now I'm gonna make them suffer!

MrColossal

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According to Scripture, everyone is born into sin. No human is innocent, and on our own merits, we all deserve death.

Well that's a hell of a way to start a ballgame!

So the first person to ever place baseball supposedly struck out so now we all have to start every new game with 2 outs and 3 fouls. I didn't even want to play in the first place!
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big brother

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For the ballgame analogy, it's more like you've got Babe Ruth on the bench, but it's up to you to sub him in.
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Mr Flibble

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I always liked the analagy of life being like a card game that you enter 10 minutes late, with blank cards and a dealer who won't tell you the rules.
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I like how we run our christian questions by yodaman, it's like running them by a computer AI or something. You know what he'll say will be dumb and uninformed, but you still want to hear it because it's going to be dumb and uninformed.
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Steel Drummer

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Quote

So you still haven't explained why raped women should be stoned to death?

If you're referring to the verse I'm thinking you are... it says that the woman should be stoned for not crying out while she was being raped. 

I'm sick of debating with a bunch of Bible hating freaks, and I think I'll stay away from any more religious threads. :P

You ruin a painting and that is all you have done. You rape a woman, kill her children in front of her and then kill her? That's awful. And bear in mind that the women of those days mostly just obeying men... did they deserve this fate?

There's only one Being who can say what anyone deserves. So they did. If you continue reading Jeremiah, you will find how God wept for the people He destroyed.

Quote
48:28 Leave your towns, you inhabitants of Moab. Go and live in the cliffs. Be like a dove that makes its nest high on the sides of a ravine.

48:29 I have heard how proud the people of Moab are, I know how haughty they are. I have heard how arrogant, proud, and haughty they are, what a high opinion they have of themselves.

48:30 I, the Lord, affirm that I know how arrogant they are. But their pride is ill-founded. Their boastings will prove to be false.

48:31. So I will weep with sorrow for Moab. I will cry out in sadness for all of Moab. I will moan for the people of Kir Heres.

48:36 So my heart moans for Moab like a flute playing a funeral song. Yes, like a flute playing a funeral song, my heart moans for the people of Kir Heres. For the wealth they have gained will perish.

48:47 "Yet in days to come I will reverse Moab's ill fortune.” says the Lord. The judgment against Moab ends here.

At a point, a person loses their humanity to the sin (by their own choice) and there is nothing redeemable left.

God created free will. It'd be arrogant to assume that we are somehow entitled to it.

Quote
I have given examples where god has ordered the murder of innocent people.

According to Scripture, everyone is born into sin. No human is innocent, and on our own merits, we all deserve death.


I agree wholeheartedly with that entire post. I'm not sure what your spiritual alignment is, but it's refreshing to hear someone talk about God like this.   

oh...
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   Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

That's prophecy, for heaven's sake!
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 23:33 by Steel Drummer »
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Mr Flibble

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Steel Drummer, a lot of people here would be far less "Bible hating" if you weren't making Christians look so bad.
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Meowster

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If you're referring to the verse I'm thinking you are... it says that the woman should be stoned for not crying out while she was being raped. 

So explain to me, why should a woman be stoned - TO DEATH, I might add -  for not crying out while she was being raped?

Have you ever been raped, Steel Drummer?

Are you aware that commonly, when women are raped, they freeze with panic and are unable to scream or call for help because they're so scared and shocked?

What about when a man threatens to kill a woman if she screams? Does she then get stoned to death because he threatened to kill her if she screamed?

Answer me, Steel Drummer. If your daughter was raped and she did not scream, would you stone her to death?

If not, then you are disobeying god, who specifically says that women who do not cry out for help while being raped, are to be stoned to death.

I want to know if you're actually condoning the murder of a woman for being unable to cry for help while she's being raped. Because I would consider that far, far more perverse than homosexuality.

And you still haven't answered about Polygamy in the bible. It clearly states the you must marry your brother's wife and give her children, should he die childless. This, presumably, includes if you are already married, since there are plenty of examples of Polygamy in the Bible. You've already said that you think Polygamy is disgusting, so can you please explain why God allows it?
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 23:53 by Meowster »

Adamski

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Please, please, please stop.

Meowster

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Adamski, I'm a woman and Steel Drummer is suggesting that if I was to be raped against my will, I would deserve to be stoned for it, if I had been too scared to call out for help. I think that, since he's allowed to make statements like that, it's only fair to expect that I would be allowed to challenge his absolutely disgusting beliefs.

If you don't want to read this thread then please don't. But I'm continually insulted by Steel Drummers perverse beliefs, many of which are anti-women, and if he wants to continue attempting to defend his perverse god, then I'll continue to point out the many flaws in his arguments.

He's allowed to make these statements on these forums. I think it's only right that I am allowed to argue with him. I'm arguing perfectly reasonably, I think. It's not like I'm making things up and losing my temper. I'm providing him with facts and with quotes directly from his bible, and he's hilariously failing to defend his religion in any decent way.

I'm enjoying this debate.
« Last Edit: 02 May 2007, 23:59 by Meowster »

Adamski

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You've been ramming your head against this particular brick wall for the last few days though, and while I admire that you've not yet concussed yourself I think it's clear that you're not going to break through it before all our skulls cave in.

Steel Drummer

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Yufster. You're making a fool of yourself. You've been told to stop, so why don't you? I've said countless times that I have my views, and you have yours, so why don't we end this silly argument, as it's going nowhere.

I don't feel like answering any more of your questions. It's apparent you don't fully understand the Bible, and I'm okay with that. Why don't we get back on the topic (This is the third time I've said this)?
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Meowster

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Fair enough, but I'm having fun. I really am. And at this point I'm extracting things from Steel Drummer such as that he believes women SHOULD be stoned if they don't call for help whilst being raped... things which are pretty shocking but, coming from him, pretty funny.

Because a few threads back, Steel Drummer was shocked that people condoned Polygamy, and he would have been shocked if people had suggested murdering a rape victim too.

But now he realises his "good" lord says that he should, he's all in agreement with forcing rape victims to marry their rapists, etc.

I dunno, maybe it will have an effect on him one day. Maybe even now, he's too proud to admit it on a forum... but maybe one day he'll actually open up the bible and read it. And not like it as much as he thought he would.

At first he claimed he'd read the whole Bible through and never seen any of those stories.

Then he said he wasn't going to bother looking for them in the bible because we'd clearly made them up.

Now he admits they ARE in the bible, and he makes excuses for them because he's afraid of going to hell if he doesn't like kiddies being killed and women being murdered and raped.

I get amused by this.

Meowster

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Yufster. You're making a fool of yourself. You've been told to stop, so why don't you? I've said countless times that I have my views, and you have yours, so why don't we end this silly argument, as it's going nowhere.

I don't feel like answering any more of your questions. It's apparent you don't fully understand the Bible, and I'm okay with that. Why don't we get back on the topic (This is the third time I've said this)?

Ah, a reply.

You refuse to answer my questions because you know you're wrong. Full stop.

You know it's not right to murder a woman for being raped.

You know it's not right to kill babies and children for no reason.

So you're going to pretend you just want to stop arguing.

Well done.

I'm not making a fool of myself, Steel Drummer. I've arguing my points well, quoting scripture in my defence.

you're making a fool of yourself by claiming that it's okay to force a woman to marry her rapist.

You haven't said countless times that "you have your view, I have mine".

You have shown a lack of knowledge of the Bible and of your own faith, even in doing things such as condemning polygamy in one thread and then (presumably since you don't disagree with god) condoning it in the next. And saying that a woman should be stoned for being a rape victim! Disgusting. A truly good christian would never, ever condone such a thing.

You have made a fool of yourself. Probably even in the eyes of other Christians... if I was a christian I would be embarrassed at your weak and uneducated attempts to defend the bible.

Since you blatently refuse to answer my last few questions, I'll assume you've given up and are hopefully questioning your faith in a sick and perverted god.

Additionally, I haven't been "told" to stop. If you look, you'll see that the only people who have advised me to stop, are advising me because it's pointless arguing with you - it's like arguing with a 14 year old boy. I simply cannot believe that you're the father of a child.

Furthermore, I'm amazed that you're "hanging out" with a forum full of such non-believers. Surely the Bible shows that you should not associate yourself with non-believers? In fact, doesn't god himself say that if there are one or two non-believers in a villager, that village should be burned, the women children and men killed, and the livestock too? Why would you choose to associate yourself with so many non-believers when you YOURSELF know the risks? And how much God hates it?

The fact that you refuse to see that 99% of people in this thread are incredulous at YOUR perverse behaviour, is amazing. That you think 99% of people don't want you to shut up, shows the side of you that allows you to be blinded by organised religion. The side of you that can completely shut out the truth and reality, even when it is so blindingly obvious. The part of you that can tell yourself it is okay to stone a rape victim to death.

You know if your child ever misbehaves or becomes drunk, you are required by god to stone him to death? Deuteronomy 21:18

I'll be holding you to that.

« Last Edit: 03 May 2007, 00:25 by Meowster »

Nikolas

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...That you think 99% of people don't want you to shut up...
How I'd like that now. :)

But of course oil on fire is not really helping Y ;)

Additionally I can see how you're insulted by his POV, which is, frankly quite stupid, but on the other hand you are also having fun Y? something is not at place then ;)

Additionally, after this thread I have decided to treat Steel Drummer like somebody with a defected brain or something. Like a dumb! Which simply means that he takes my sympathy and not my fighting...

Y, would you do this debating with my son (even if he could post and say those awful things)? Probably not, because he's 3. Then consider that SD is 3 and stop debating.

On the other hand this thread has entered the 10 most posted threads ever, and is close to becoming 9th ;) yay! Additionally, what on earth am I replying here for, if I'm not enjoying somehow this thread?

Still after my initial dissagreement with helm pages back, let's just kill this troll.