Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing

Started by Helm, Mon 16/04/2007 21:47:35

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monkey0506

#140
@Helm's post to me: Omg. LAWL! ;D Best. Post. Ever.

Actually I have to disagree with Helm on all the anti-religion bits he said. I believe what I believe. Helm's penis isn't going to change that. Oh boy I just set myself up with that one.

We go to church together. We've known each other for about two and a half years. And she wouldn't do it with the soccer team. In fact, she's pretty serious about abstinence herself. And sorry Helm, but even if she wanted to right now, I'd have to turn her down. I can't say that I'm completely sure that I could. I've never been in the situation. But it's something I believe in, and it's something I would stand up to fight for. Probably at least as much as Helm fights for his penis.

I guess I stopped [reading] one page short. But I really do have to be going soon. In any case, I've always been kind of an obsessive guy. Sure, creepy as hell...but it's fun. :P

This girl agreed to go out with me at least once...before Valentine's Day came around. So you can forget the idea that I pressured her into it by buying her all this stuff.

I also have to dispute the idea that I don't know her because "a 14-year-old girl changes every month". I haven't stated this one yet, because I'm sure it will stir up all kinds of...name calling and whatnot. But the fact is...I lived with this girl for 3 1/2 months last year. We talk pretty much every day. And regardless of whether she does like me more than a friend or not, I know for a fact that I'm one of her best friends. She's told me so. She's shown me as much. She has on multiple occasions chosen to talk to me versus other friends...old boyfriends for whom she still has feelings...etc.

You can speculate all you want. But this comes down to two simple facts: 1) you don't know me, 2) you don't know her. Due to point 1, you can't even form a proper hypothesis about what all this obsessive behaviour really amounts to. I like this girl, but it doesn't mean that I would die if she doesn't want to get married to me the day she turns 18. I've already said that if this "crush" never goes anywhere that I'd be happy to just be her friend. And in spite of that, I was called a liar.

Due to point 2, you can't get a relevant reading on your Creep-o-meters. All I know is what she's told me. And all that you know is what I've told you. So you think you can judge me based on the fragment of the facts that you have all suddenly become experts on?

Another thing you seem to be focusing...locking in on....is that right now she's only 14. She'll be 15 in less than a month, but it doesn't matter. Sure, 19 and 15 isn't the same as 22 and 18. I understand that. But why should the numbers be such a huge factor? I don't like her because of her age. I like her for who she is. We're not going to be getting involved in ANY type of relationship any time soon, so what difference does it make that I have feelings for her? The absolute earliest we may possibly become involved in even a "bf/gf relationship" is more than two years away. At that point I would be 21 and she would be 17. At the youngest.

So then knowing that I have feelings for her suddenly turns me into a paedo. I understand. Because it doesn't make any difference that I actually want to wait to even consider becoming involved in a relationship. It doesn't matter that I want to wait until we are both of a more suitable age. What matters is that I have feelings for her already. I understand now. Thank you for showing me the error in my ways. Perhaps I'll just join Helm's penis club and we can go Penis Clubbing together. ToGetHer. Yes. I did that on purpose. Because I'm such a horrific paedophile.

Helm

#141
At a certain age gap though the various uncalculable modifiers tend to edge towards a definite 'creepy' though. I can imagine 30 different ways a girl that is 17 is ready to have sex with a 25 year old, though I might not enjoy the concept on the abstract. But I cannot imagine a single case where it'd be okay and understandable under the particular circumstances for a 30 year old man to have sex with a 12 year old girl.

It is at that threshold towards certainty that most societies concerned with human rights draw a line, and call it a law.

EDIT: this isn't in reply to you, monkey, it's to the post before you. Hi, btw. I'll post about what you said later. I just wanted to let you know that of course all 'judgement' on you is obviously on very weak ground. This is the internet and all.
WINTERKILL

Fleshstalker

Quote from: voh on Sun 22/04/2007 04:53:22
So 17 and 12 is fine with you, Fatal Fury?

Sure, why not. I am 5 years younger than my girlfriend after all. Since I was 13 and she was 18 when we were going out, that 17 and 12 you mentioned might be the limit for me. If 11 and 16, I'd say no.  :)

radiowaves

#143
Quote from: Fee on Sat 21/04/2007 02:27:34
I believe several teachers have been jailed for that recently. One even hooked back up with they guy after she was released. If he wasnt such an impressionable age at the time they were sleeping together, i doubt the would have go together after the jail.

Your 16 and you can look if you want, I'm 26 and can look all i want also. Difference is at 16, you can do somthing about it.

Its when I use my previous experience to get young girls into bed that i am doing the wrong thing.

Look at it like this..
Your 16. Probly in school with a part time job (if any) no car (or a small first car) and littel experience with girls.
Im 26 with a fill time job as an Engineer, nice V8 Falcon and ive had several partners of varing age.

Say you and I are competing for the same 16 year old girl...

You buy her a rose and some Chocolates.
I buy her a dozen roses, some designer chocolares, ballons, teddybears ect.

You pick her up from school in your mothers Hyundai.
I pick her up in my Hoted up Ford.

You struggle to find the correct words to tell her how you feel due to lack of experience.
I tell her how i feel and make it sound all romantic and how we were destened to be together.

You take her to McDonalds for a dinner date.
I take her to a 5 star restraunt.


Dispite the fact you are most likely suited to someone your own age and have expressed your desires to have some sort of relationship with this girl, she barely notices because I used my recources and experience to overwealm your efforts. Hardly fair is it?

If an "old man" (like me lol) is spoling a young girl rotten, lavishing attention and gifts ect on to her they are clearly using their experience and recources to take advantage of someone at an impressionable age.

Maybe i dont explain myself right, I'm not the best when it comes to reading and writing, but i think you should see what i mean. No i better go before i get into trrouble lol...

Fee

Heh, is this the proof that girls, especially young girls are really soft touch and suasible, therefore totally usable and naive? You could buy them with expensive gifts and a fancy car. Plus also the fact that they are unexperienced and therefore any relationship is like love to them.
Ok, I am maybe little unexperienced in relationships too, I am only 18, but heck, I have my limits. 2 year gap is enough for me, at least so far. So anything over 2 years is no-no to me. But as i get older, I am shure that gap  expands a lot, maybe even 10 years. But age gap in young age is a big  thing!


But 18 year old girl going out with a 13 year old??? Gosh, are you shure she didn't play mom and kid with you, Fatal Fury? I have seen 16 year olds look 14 year olds, but even that wasn't anything good.
I am just a shallow stereotype, so you should take into consideration that my opinion has no great value to you.

Tracks

Andail

She was 18 and you were 13? How exceedingly odd. What kind of needs can a young woman have to make her turn to a - barely - pubescent boy? And just touching you could have got her arrested.
Even if you happen to be abnormally mature for your age (and bodily developed) it's still an extreme situation.

Maybe a lot of the commotion in this thread stems from the fact that we interpret certain terms differently in different countries and cultures. I know Americans tend to be liberal with phrases like "seeing", "going out" and "dating", and they can more or less apply to just having milkshakes together. It also appears as if Americans can continue to date casually for very long, and that this state needn't develop in any direction.
In Sweden, you seldom date in a purely casual way more than maybe once; after that you either enter some sort of relationship or you drop it, and refer to eachother as friends.
Of all the relationships I know of (including my own), none have been preceded by a lengthy dating-phase.



Redwall

Interesting point; I wasn't aware of the cultural differences. I wonder if we Americans extend the casual dating because we don't want to move too fast, or because we feel we always have to be in a relationship and it's easier to maintain casual ones? or something else entirely?
aka Nur-ab-sal

"Fixed is not unbroken."

vict0r

@Andail: That's about how it's here in Norway aswell. The longest I've "dated" someone was maybe 3 or 4 days, but by the second time we saw eachother we were already making out casually.

@monkey: You sound like you are waiting for her and that you think she is the love of your life. Let it go man! Get some experience before you choose 'the one'! :)

Tuomas

Quote from: Helm on Sun 22/04/2007 05:05:15
I can imagine 30 different ways a girl that is 17 is ready to have sex with a 25 year old, though I might not enjoy the concept on the abstract.

Yeah, kids tend to be more limber, the younger they are.

voh

Still here.

Nikolas

You know what? time to speak my mind really...

Usually the problem of age is the idea that the older could take advantage of the younger on. This is the obvious and only problem to me, cause:

If an 18 year old likes/loves/adores a 14 year old then he knows something (Monkey). If he decides to wait a couple of years, so much better. If the girl is immature and dumb, then the 18 year old simply deserves it! If the 18 year old if immature then the 14 year old deserve it.

As long as there is no sexual relationship and the parents know I see no problem really.

Same with 25, 16 year old. Yes, the age gap is big (rather huge), and yes there should be problems to be seen for anyone who doesn't know them two.

BUT:

A 16 year old mature girl, that works in an adult enviroment, could very well cope with a 25 year old who just started working, or has limited experience.

All theories point that age gap is a problem, especially in the younger ages (cause really let's face it, sexually there would be no problem with me (29) and a girl of 20-22. but of course I come bundled with kids and problems, so the girl wouldn't like me that way ;))

Same thing pretty much happened with me and my wife, who is 3 years older (not a great age gap really). I met here when I was 22 and she was 25! I had no idea she was so "old", but then  Ididn't mind, until she told me bluntly that I had no idea what I was going into and that she was in an age, that had finished university, working, etc, while I was still a student with a long way to go. For all she knew she could be looking for a husband to bear children, not another boyfriend. Finaly, things went my/our way, we stayed together and children came (admitidately a bit early maybe for me, mostly for financial reasons, not maturity or anything!)

Things are fine as they are now, still financial problems are here, but I'm a full grown family man now. Looking back to myself 4 years ago, I think I was totally nuts, to go on to this thing. (Marrying while in army with no job, no real degree, with the will to study for 4 years in the UK. Having a child while in the army under the absolutely same circumstances. Moving abroad with no job, as a student, with the whole family).

Yet we did it and I value those years simply put.

Bottom line. Problem with age gape (although obvious to the outsiders), needs to be considered in each case individually. Sure 25-16 seems huge, but things could still be going great for both of them and all their friends, so why not?

similary closer ages, can have huge(r) problems that could be unbearable.

As long as no one is taking advantage of no one I see nothing wrong (and the parents of non adults know). Even worst 15-16 year olds are much worst than an 18 year old making a 100$ present (which could be akward of course ;))

that's all from me for now

Pesty

I think all of you grown men should stop putting these teenage girls up on paedostals.
ACHTUNG FRANZ: Enjoy it with copper wine!

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes. - Douglas Adams

m0ds

Funny thread, everyone is getting so worked up :)

Hot or not? You play a 24 year old man's conscience as he decides which girl to seduce! Do you go for...

Girl number A



Girl number B


Girl number C


or

Girl number D


Correct answers to....no wait, no more Matt jokes allowed.

The Inquisitive Stranger

I haven't been here in a while, but reading this thread has been quite an amusing diversion for me. Helm's posts in particular.
Actually, I HAVE worked on a couple of finished games. They just weren't made in AGS.

Tuomas

Quote from: Nikolas on Sun 22/04/2007 18:10:49
but of course I come bundled with kids and problems, so the girl wouldn't like me that way ;))

That's an interesting choise of words for referring to your wife there ;)

Oh, and for m0ds... When it comes to choosing girls by looks and only that, I wouldn't go for any of them. If I have to make a choise though, I'd say, not A (Ilike the scarf thought) or D... Now who did I offend?

Helm

Hey Monkey. Guess what.

QuoteBest. Post. Ever.

Hey, I wanted to say something about that. I'm good at making fun of people, a skill solely honed on the internet on places far less hospitable than this. I have the inclination, though I reign it in usually because simply this isn't the place for it, and generally it's a waste of time although it may be humourous. The saving grace of how I treated you in my last post, which was completely uncalled for (like this post too) is that there's a honesty under the 'lol, internet!' attitude. I'm giving you a piece of my mind because I was in a similar situation and I wanna help. I'm levelling with you. I call you creepy and a loser and a paedo, but you're just a guy in a set of circumstances and you're trying to make do. The laughs aside, I'm on your cock's side. I want you to be happy. This will not happen many times to you on the internet. Usually people just take advantage of the poor fool who for any reason says on the internet 'hey, this happened to me and it could be taken the wrong way, hehe' like you did.

That being said, we can drop the subject at any time you want.

Quote from: monkey_05_06 link=topic=30976.msg397374#msg397374
Actually I have to disagree with Helm on all the anti-religion bits he said. I believe what I believe. Helm's penis isn't going to change that. Oh boy I just set myself up with that one.

Though my penis, formidable as it is, can be very convincing, I am happy you don't exactly drop your beliefs because some random person on the internet wrote you a post about being creepy. You would be a total waste of a human being if you said '...deny... christ? YES I WILL DO AS YOU SAY!' or something. I take your religious beliefs seriously, though I may not share them and you would do best to take my 'satanic lodge' stuff with a boulder of salt because it's mostly metaphor or reactionism or silly fun. I ain't no anti-christian, though I admit to having no faith in any sort of God. Otherwise, my morality isn't much different from most people's. I try to enjoy myself without hurting others. That's what 99% of christians do anyway, so why hold on to divine baggage?

QuoteWe go to church together.

Christ isn't your saviour, he is a lifeless concept! Make a mockery of him! You didn't come in this world with any other purpose than to excert your biological leanings, to dominate. Let loose the nocturnal beast inside! Blessed are the sick, that lead life of sin! Blessed are we!

Meet her in the church at night. Deflower her on the altar, let the virgin blood be sacrifice to a different lord below!

Seriously, she'll love the new Monkey much more. You can keep the christian facade if you want, that you service a different master (lord priamus from the depths, the goat with the upright member that spits the life-giving seed) needs only be your own secret knowledge. The happiest people are those that overcome this silly concept of 'hypocrisy' and happily engage in totally contradictive behaviours to suit their pleasures, without a second thought given to moral consistency and such. Morality is something we will always fail to uphold to the letter exactly because it is ideal and we're only made of flesh, and falter. Be adaptive. Don't have opinions, only search for solutions. Don't try to fit the world inside your worldview. The strain that the world will place on it will lead you to suffer.

That's not to say you'd be able to discard your morality anyway. You've already been programmed by your parents and peers, you probably feel bad when you hurt people. Congratulations, you're like most of us then. The words don't matter. When you hurt someone, you'll feel bad and want to fix things. You don't have to dress it up in some high and mighty divinely inspired moral code. Just do it. Don't hurt people, and when you do, deal with it like a man.

Otherwise have fun.

QuoteWe've known each other for about two and a half years.

You've known her since she was ELEVEN you fucking cradle snatcher?! You're going to hell.

QuoteAnd she wouldn't do it with the soccer team. In fact, she's pretty serious about abstinence herself.

I'll tell you this, monkey. When puberty hits you might have dodged it (perhaps you are just abstinent by ugly, not by choice. Post a picture) but she might not deny her hormones. It's pretty easy to discard years of religious indoctorination the moment it just feels totally wrong. Sexual urges are natural. They take over and suddenly your bullshit talk seems quite nonsensical. And you know what? That's probably better. Because a teenager that goes through his teens without any sort of sexual outlet will grow up with severe emotional problems. Do you want that for her? Didn't you say you love her? What if the best thing for her, for her freedom and happiness, is to drop this abstinence business?.

What if the best thing for her is the soccer team. Not you holding hands.

QuoteAnd sorry Helm, but even if she wanted to right now, I'd have to turn her down.

I admire the words, though I don't believe them.

QuoteI can't say that I'm completely sure that I could. I've never been in the situation. But it's something I believe in, and it's something I would stand up to fight for. Probably at least as much as Helm fights for his penis.

Again, grade A for idealism, but you're only hurting yourself. If you think hurting yourself for a purpose assigns higher meaning to your life... you're probably correct. However, you will find later on in life that just high meanings are not very fulfilling. Perhaps you'll do on a steady diet of nothing. As I said, perhaps you're really ugly so it's a win/win situation for you.

QuoteThis girl agreed to go out with me at least once...before Valentine's Day came around. So you can forget the idea that I pressured her into it by buying her all this stuff.

God do you hear yourself? Observe the wording you're using. 'Agreed to go out with me AT LEAST once'. DESPERATE. Desperate, hopeless and creepy. Where's your pride? Where's your desire to be loved, adored to have women worship your penis like they rightly should? (unless you're ugly or something). You won't believe how happy you will feel when you're in a relationship with an equal, who respects you and loves you and you do the same without any sort of cohersion or general haggling. Agreed to go out with you AT LEAST ONCE? No shit, man. Better buy her a house.

My only hope is that by the time her 'AT LEAST ONCE' comes about, you will have been on tens of dates with people who liked you and will not be bothered to go out with her yourself. The penis hurts when punched, Monkey. And every time you haggle for a date with this girl, she's punching you in the penis. Have some penis dignity. If you don't, then once you will have to use it it might no longer stand upright as it youthfully had, so many times ignored by you


wait, I just thought of something. If you're abstinent, does that mean you don't masturbate?

QuoteI haven't stated this one yet, because I'm sure it will stir up all kinds of...name calling and whatnot.

I wander what this leads to.

QuoteBut the fact is...

Hmm hm hm hm.

QuoteI lived with this girl for 3 1/2 months last year.

Holy shit! You creepy creepy paedophile. Since she was 9 and a half?! I am telling you, if I were this girls' father, christian or no christian I'd beat you half-dead. How... how the hell? What why are you living together? Are you related? Is she a cousin or something? I'll let you off the hook if she's a cousin since that sort of moral tabboo has no effect on me, but god-damn, it's starting to pile up. You're in a messy spot.

QuoteWe talk pretty much every day.

WHAT did you talk about with a 9 year old? Pokemon? Barbies? It's so hard for me to not start to dislike you inside. Please explain to me so I can rest easier how this all is justified. Are you... I don't know. How. What? uh

QuoteAnd regardless of whether she does like me more than a friend or not

Okay now I will tell you a hard truth about life: if you're friends with a girl a few years younger than you, and you spend say a few summers with them being friends and shit, before you've had a boner and all so it's all childlike etc, and then you grow up a little and you have your first desires, that girl? You totally love her now. And she totally loves you too. That's how it goes. Spend enough time with an agreeable girl as a child and you will love her. You will want to be with her and she with you. That's how first sexual experiences happen most of the time. Two kids growing from friendship to attraction, well before they realize the implications.

So, in your case? That a 13 year old TOLD YOU SHE SEES YOU AS A FRIEND? That these 4 years of friendship didn't amagalmate into sexual desire? It means you fucking TERRIFY HER. That she will never not in a million years touch you erotically, that you are a problem she tries desperately to keep at arm's length out of oh, a misplaced sense of charity that you misconstrue for 'perhaps one day' affection.

You have FAILED. Your childhood flirting has been for NOTHING, and this cannot change. Pick up your pieces and move on. She doesn't want you. She doesn't want you. She doesn't want you. She doesn't want you. She doesn't want you. She doesn't want you.


I'm sorry.


QuoteI know for a fact that I'm one of her best friends.

You know it for a FACT. Words betray your desperation. There are no FACTS when dealing with emotions, jerk.

QuoteShe's told me so.

A girl once told me I'm the man of her dreams, then went off to get penised by a good friend of mine.

QuoteShe's shown me as much. She has on multiple occasions chosen to talk to me versus other friends...old boyfriends for whom she still has feelings...etc.

So you're her 'dear diary' perhaps. You'll grow to regret this position soon enough. It's an awful place to be. JUST YOU FUCKIN' WAIT. JUST YOU WAIT. Just wait for when she comes to you all near-crying and shit and she says she needs someone to talk to and you go 'sure honey, I'll be your dear diary' and she "goes oh you're such a good friend, I have nobody else that will listen to me. Yesterday I was with Paul and we were uh... fooling around, and he um, h-he put it... from the back. OH MONKEY IT HURT SO BAD! IT HURT SO BAD, BUT GOOD AT THE SAME TIME, OH I AM SO CONFLICTED!


I think I love Paul."


Just you wait.

Quotetwo simple facts: 1) you don't know me, 2) you don't know her. Due to point 1, you can't even form a proper hypothesis about what all this obsessive behaviour really amounts to.

Yeah yeah you're right. I'm no behavioural scientist, I am not trying to make a 'proper hypothesis'. I'm just telling you things, seeing what bounces off. You're being a good sport and will probably see things from a different vantage point due to it, though I don't expect anything to stick. It's okay. I am not trying to attack you with any of this.

QuoteI like this girl, but it doesn't mean that I would die if she doesn't want to get married to me the day she turns 18. I've already said that if this "crush" never goes anywhere that I'd be happy to just be her friend. And in spite of that, I was called a liar.

That's all-right. You be her friend while Paul the football team captain... assaults her. Enjoy life without merit. God approves.

QuoteDue to point 2, you can't get a relevant reading on your Creep-o-meters. All I know is what she's told me. And all that you know is what I've told you. So you think you can judge me based on the fragment of the facts that you have all suddenly become experts on?

Who is these 'all' you're talking to. I'm just here, man. There are no other 'experts'. I am here for you. I will beat up Paul for you. Perhaps. Is he big? He's gotta be big if he's in the football team.


QuoteI don't like her because of her age. I like her for who she is. We're not going to be getting involved in ANY type of relationship any time soon, so what difference does it make that I have feelings for her? The absolute earliest we may possibly become involved in even a "bf/gf relationship" is more than two years away. At that point I would be 21 and she would be 17. At the youngest.

Okay this is interesting because it's like other people said, in der europa, we don't say 'dating' and stuff unless it means it'll get intimate. There's a local saying that if you go out with a girl more than 3 times without anything happening, then you're now girlfriends and can go buy underwear together and gossip about men. If that's what you're talking about okay. I'd be less... vocal, in your position, and just keep sticking around until she's grown-up enough to be with, personally, but you have to burst out with all this overeager love business. Okay, I guess.

Just be ready for when she gets her first real boyfriend while you're stuck riding shotgun in the friend seat. It'll be great. You'll enjoy pain.

QuoteThank you for showing me the error in my ways. Perhaps I'll just join Helm's penis club and we can go Penis Clubbing together.

The offer still stands.

QuoteToGetHer.

Holy shit I'm not gangbanging a 14 year old, you sick depraved christian.
WINTERKILL

Tuomas


Meowster

Fuck me Monkey, you're a fucking paedo, no shit... sort yourself out...

Helm



I like the moist lips. See here I can't tell what the age is. I could get in trouble. But I'm sure in conversing with her I'd understand how old she is in 5 minutes.

Still. Moist lips. mm
WINTERKILL

vict0r

QuoteYou'll enjoy pain.

And sex. Just don't mix.

Tuomas

Quote from: vict0r on Sun 22/04/2007 19:58:03
QuoteYou'll enjoy pain.

And sex. Just don't mix.

Oh pfft it, a bit of spanking and red meat is where it's at ;)

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