Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing

Started by Helm, Mon 16/04/2007 21:47:35

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earlwood

#260
Monkey, I find it strange that you can make radical changes to your natural behavior based on a concept you, apparently, have not invested much into.  It would seem that if someone was going to morph their own personal philosophy around a book/article/song/fortune cookie they would first studied it meticulously, especially if they were planning on going somewhere foreign to tell complete strangers that they can "show them the way", or whatever catchy little numbers you may be armed with.


On another note, what kind of pornography were you addicted to that is so shameful?  Was there penile insertions?

Huw Dawson

Quote from: SSH on Wed 25/04/2007 00:07:28
Since I've had the snip, does that mean I can start hanging around schools with my dirty mac?

I said biggest. I didn't mean only.

In the UK, the legal age for leaving school is 16. If a girl gets pregnant before she leaves school, chances are she's going to have screwed up her entire two GCSE years. No GCSEs = no future. You can go back and revisit A levels and University. GCSEs are much much harder.

- Huw
Post created from the twisted mind of Huw Dawson.
Not suitible for under-3's due to small parts.
Contents may vary.

Haddas

The ideal age for my women would be around my age. I've usually ended up dating women who are 2 years older than me. My current love is just 2 months younger than me :)

Tuomas

Your current love eh? :D So that's why the absence from AGS! Tell us about it.

Andail

I've always been curious about how Finnish men pick up women. Most of the exchange students we've had at my uni usually just spend their pub/club-nights standing in a corner in a bland white t-shirt and some booze in one hand looking bored.

Haddas

Quote from: Andail on Wed 25/04/2007 22:13:35
I've always been curious about how Finnish men pick up women. Most of the exchange students we've had at my uni usually just spend their pub/club-nights standing in a corner in a bland white t-shirt and some booze in one hand looking bored.


It's MYSTERIOUS!

I'm very bad at being finnish. I'm way too open. Maybe that's why.

Quote from: Tuomas on Wed 25/04/2007 21:22:45
Your current love eh? :D So that's why the absence from AGS! Tell us about it.

Well it's a bit long-distance and a little bit shush shush. But it's also a little serious. As in, airplane travel serious.

Andail

Quote from: Haddas on Wed 25/04/2007 22:22:50
But it's also a little serious. As in, airplane travel serious.

She's an air stewardess?

Haddas

Quote from: Andail on Wed 25/04/2007 22:24:35
Quote from: Haddas on Wed 25/04/2007 22:22:50
But it's also a little serious. As in, airplane travel serious.

She's an air stewardess?

No. She's an airplane.

Tuomas

Quote from: Andail on Wed 25/04/2007 22:13:35
I've always been curious about how Finnish men pick up women. Most of the exchange students we've had at my uni usually just spend their pub/club-nights standing in a corner in a bland white t-shirt and some booze in one hand looking bored.


That's pretty much it, and everytime they end up with someone. I can't really say there is anything else to it than that. I guess by time Finnish women have grown desparate and tend to come at us. Though speaking of booze, I've quite a few times got phonecalls from people i don't remember, and my friends tell me fun stuff about club nights. So too much booze is the clue! Come to Lapaset and you'll see.

Helm

QuoteHowever, let me reiterate once more: I would like this girl to be 'the one', but it DOES NOT mean that I necessarily believe she will be.

I think most people enter a relationship hoping for good things. That they'll match and enjoy their time together, and that time will not be very brief. The 'one' talk generally one learns from being slapped enough times by life to simply not bring up before a few years have passed. If you bring it up early you're just being clingy, weird, creepy and obsessive.

QuoteI'm obsessive by nature.

Have you tried to seek some psychological counselling on this? By someone who isn't your priest? Would you entertain that notion?

I'd shrug the dramatics off if you weren't 20. Most people have outgrown this mood after their teens. But it could be a case of late development and you'll be alright once you get laid a few times.

If it persists, seek help. Having mental problems is no joke.

QuoteI will obsess over it for days, possibly even weeks, asking myself how I could have been so stupid.

I am sorry to hear that Monkey. Under this light, has our conversation brought you much distress? If so, I'm doubly sorry, I didn't mean to metaphorically poke your psyche around. I don't think you're stupid and reports of your paedophilliac streak have been... wildly exaggerated. Probably your fault for wording it as you did but in light of this condition I won't beat you over the head with it. So you like a 14 year old lots and you're waiting for her to grow up.

I've sure we've all had similar thoughts. I was with a girl and her younger sister was totally so much more pretty than her and deep inside I was thinking 'gosh, if I should break up with my current I should do my best to remain friends because that one is growing up soon, wooo!' because we're somewhat of a bastard inside.

I broke up violently.

QuoteI know my obsessive behaviour could be seen as "creepy" but it's really just a part of who I am.

Just be prepared if you stick with 'who you are' all the way that 'who you are' might be a very lonely guy.

QuoteAhhh...so you have gotten me figured out then. You and your telepathy.... :P

Oh man.

About mormonism I just echo erlwood in that it's strange to me that you're willing to kill your libido and spend two years 'saving' people when you don't know exactly what you're saving them from and if you're really saving them and if you're saving yourself.

Your religious identity isn't just 'yourself'. You get to choose. You get to inspect what other people tell you about salvation and make a reasonable call.

QuoteI'm not here to try and convert everyone. In fact, I've tried to stay out of most religious threads on these forums altogether. The reason being that I don't know loads of things about my own religion. I've never read The Book of Mormon in its entirety. I've never even read the Bible cover to cover. But due to my own religious convictions I believe them both to be true.

That does not parse. Due to your own religious convictions you believe something you haven't read to be true? That's... a bit risky there, man.

And you're not converting anyone in this forum, but you're willing to go on a mission two years abroad to convert people there? Of something you're not sure what it is?

QuoteFor a lot of people that's hardly conclusive evidence, which is why I've tried to steer clear of religious debates.

You might be messing up your life over words you believe but you haven't read. That's a big issue for YOU not for any religious debate on this forum.

Quote(due to my addiction to pornography)

I don't know. I just don't know.

QuoteI've mentioned my pornography addiction because I don't want to seem a hypocrite.

That's brave of you.

QuoteI have had problems with it in the past, and it's something I'm currently dealing with.

What constitutes an addiction? Give me some numbers. I'm in a relationship and I still peruse stuff that can be considered pornographic once in a while as I don't see my girlfriend every day. So how much is too much for you, what's your situation?


By my own convictions I have decided to put an end to the masturbation. By my own convictions I've decided to stop looking at pornography. By my own convictions I've decided to abstain from premarital sex.4

QuoteI don't condemn you all to Hell if you have chosen to live your lives differently.

Do you know that on your mission when you expose people to the mormon faith if they turn it down, they're effectively condemned to hell? They were okay as long as they didn't know, but once they know and turn away from jesus, they are condemned to suffer in all eternity.

Do you really need this crap in your life?

Quotebut would it be too much to ask for you not to judge me?

I won't judge you.
WINTERKILL

Tuomas

Quote from: Helm on Wed 25/04/2007 23:12:08
You might be messing up your life over words you believe but you haven't read.

And that includes most religious people in my opinion.

Dorcan

#271
Hello monkey.

Been a while since I posted in this forum, but reading your posts made me want to say something. I agree with what said Helm so I'll try no to repeat what he wrote. Anyway, I don't know you personally, I probably made a lot of assumptions in the following post and I hope you won't take it bad, I just would like to understand. Oh, it's mainly about religion.


So, from what you said, it seems to me somewhat obvious that you're not the one who chose to become member of your church. Your parents certainly did choose for you. The fact that you probably were babtized at the age of 8, when you where "in age to understand the good and the bad" as they say, certainly didn't help you to make your own decisions, as this was the first step in what would become a well planned religious life. So I guess that at the age of 12 you took your first responsability in the community as a beacon, at 14 you were an instructor, at 16 you became priest, and soon you'll become an Elder and you will serve a mission, as so many do. Also, you were told that you were the one who has chosen to be babtized, the one who made this decision.  As this assumption is completely absurd, how can you differentiate your own decisions and those the church made you take?

Seeing as you weren't quite serious in the studies of your own religion from what you said, I can only conclude that until now, you simply followed the path you have been assigned to. This means, you don't have what you call "faith". This means you simply do what you are told to do, what you think is true,  (in your church I mean, even if it can greatly influence the way you live everyday) without allowing you to think that there could be a tiny chance that all of this is wrong, without giving you the possibility to investigate on your situation. You've grown up with the conviction that your church is the only one true, that God himself spoke in 1820 to a teenager and told him that he was the chosen one, the one who would later become the first prophet of the new era. That is what you believe, because you were told so since you were in age to believe all what your parents say, since you were in age to believe in Santa Claus.

I think you are somewhat aware of this. Maybe you believe you don't have a good enough testimony, so you really hope that going on this 2 years mission will help you aquire a better understanding of your religion, make you unbreakable in your faith, make you stronger against the devil's attacks, and wiser in your decisions. Or maybe, you're just going because it was planned from the begining, since you repeatedly sang as a kid this little song : "I hope they call me on a mission, when I have grown a foot or two....I hope by then I will be ready to teach and preach and work as missionaries do!". We all know what this kind of song implies, don't we ?

And/Or, most probably, you're going because of the pressure: How could you finally chose not to go ? You likely would disappoint everybody, your familly, your church friends, your community, and even worse, you certainly would lose forever the love of this girl... Because yes, that's right, in mormon community, you gain a particular social status when you're back from your mission, everybody is proud of you and respect you, and most of the girls only want to marry a man who went on a mission, which seems to be the case of your girl. And as you can't even imagine going out with a someone from the outside world, which would be really bad for many reasons, you're somewhat... yes, stuck. Seems like spending 2 years in a mission at the begining of your life is the only way to go... Gosh, thinking about all of this makes me a bit sad, as it seems a decision made by despair.

Do all of this seem right to you ? Do you really have the feeling you made the decision to go, freely ?
Sincerely, have you already tried to look at your situation as you were looking at somebody else ? Trying to change your point of view by allowing you to make simple hypothesis like this: In the case what I'm believing is wrong,  what I'm doing is wrong, what would it imply ?

edit: some typo

Helm

Good post. I hope you post more, Dorcan.
WINTERKILL

monkey0506

Deacon, Teacher, Priest, Elder. Yeah. Close enough.

I'm not leaving on my mission tomorrow. And although I haven't devoted every waking moment to researching my church, I do put time into it. I don't just blindly follow what I'm told I should do. It's true that I was baptized when I was 8 years old. But you're sorely mistaken if you think that I've just taken what I've been taught since I was a child for granted.

I haven't done a lot of in-depth research. I haven't done a lot of things. And maybe I am blind to follow the teachings of the church I was raised in while I look into the church. But the point is that I have looked into it. I have sought after truth. And maybe I don't know everything about "my church"...I wouldn't even say that I know a lot. But what's the worst that could come of it if I'm wrong? I would rather be wrong and have lived a good life than to stray from the things that I do believe (because of that which I don't know) and in the end learn that the church was right.

The earliest I will probably be able to go on my mission is several months from now. I have every intention of not only reading the Book of Mormon, but also the Bible before then. And I have every intention of gaining a testimony of the truth of both. The Book of Mormon is somewhat unique amongst the Christian faiths in that it doesn't expect anyone to blindly follow what it says. Toward the end, in the book of Moroni, it presents a challenge to anyone who reads it, telling them to ask God if the book is a lie:

Quote from: Moroni 10:4-54 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
  5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

I don't have a testimony of the entire book. I haven't read it to have gained such a testimony. But I do have a testimony of the things which I have read.

Another misconception that has arisen is that I intend to go on my mission because it has been instilled in me that I should since I was a child. My mother is a member of the church, my stepfather isn't. Growing up we attended church sometimes. Enough to be classified as attending on a regular basis. Though as time went on, our attendance grew less and less.

Now that I'm grown and can drive myself, I attend because I want to attend. I want to find out for myself if this thing which I say I believe in is the truth or not. I believe that I'll find that these things are true. But if I never gain a testimony of that, then I will have to, by my own convictions, accept that I was wrong.

I don't know that "my church" is the true church. But I believe it.

But I don't want to serve a mission simply because of my beliefs in the church. I want to serve a mission because of my belief in God. Because I know...I know...that I wouldn't be the person I am today if there weren't a true God. I know that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And because of that knowledge, I want to share this joyous message that there is a God. That He loves each and every one of us. "My church" has provided me an opportunity to spread this message. There are plenty of other churches, and plenty of other opportunities, sure. But when it comes down to it, this church is either true, or it's not. And I don't dare turn my back unless I know. Unless I really know.

So at this point in my life, I have every intention of serving a mission for the Mormon church. Because I believe it to be true. If I one day find that I can no longer believe this, then my plans will change. I will find an answer before I go...have no doubt about this.

The reason I have tried to avoid religious debate here on the forums is that I was honestly afraid that differences of opinion on such matters might affect people's overall opinion of me as a member of the community. Since I joined these forums, I have tried to be a productive, active member in this community. I have tried to help maintain and uphold what the community has grown to be. And I have tried to give back when I can. These forums are like a virtual online home to me. I just didn't want to be rejected here because of my beliefs. If in the mission field people reject me, then that's one thing. I was really just afraid that people might judge me as a competent coder...as a member of this community...or whatever...based on any prejudices they might hold against the Mormons. Maybe I'm wrong for trying to hide my faith for such selfish reasons. Maybe I'm just wrong.

Meowster

Quote

But I don't want to serve a mission simply because of my beliefs in the church. I want to serve a mission because of my belief in God. Because I know...I know...that I wouldn't be the person I am today if there weren't a true God.

You think you know.

Quote
But when it comes down to it, this church is either true, or it's not. And I don't dare turn my back unless I know. Unless I really know.

That's what bugs me about churches and religion... it's all held together by fear. You daren't turn your back in case you go to hell. And that's basically it.

Which is why it strikes me as very selfish that you'd spread the word of your fear-driven religion to other people.

monkey0506

#275
It's funny how many people would rather be happy than right.

Spoiler
I was speaking very generally about religion, not necessarily making a statement about "my church". Basically what I got from Yeowster's statements is that she would rather live the way she wants and not live her life in fear of "go[ing] to hell" than to worry about it. This is where we differ in opinions though. Because even though I've made mistakes in my past, I'd still rather lead a good life and be wrong about this religion stuff than to satisfy my temporal pleasures and be right about it.
[close]

Furthermore, why does it have to be about fear of going to Hell? If I believe in life after death, if I believe in Heaven and in God...why can't it be that perhaps I want to spend eternity with loads and loads of riches in Heaven? See...my plan is to try and be the richest person there...then I can laugh and gloat at all you poor, poor heathens. :P Sure, there is, for a believer, the fear of Hell...but why can't we focus on the good? :=

Also I think that Douglas Adams had a very brilliant point when he wrote about Arthur's visit to the philosopher on the pole. Just as Arthur couldn't know the things that the philosopher knew, you can't know everything I know. Our knowledge is mutually exclusive. You can't know what I know because you already know what you know. Even if we both had a knowledge of some common fact, our understanding of the thing would inevitably be different, so when it comes straight down to it, you still wouldn't know what I know. I know through my own experiences the things that I know. You know the things that you know. Trying to understand the things that the other knows is a futile exercise, as we can't possibly know the things the other does. So until you become me...until you know what I know...please just refrain from questioning what I do and don't know. If I say that I know it, I mean that I know it. I may be wrong at times, but in this case I'm definitive, and nothing will change my mind that I know this thing.

Andail

This is also your home, Monkey, and what means most to people here is what you contribute to the community.
I won't enter a lengthy discussion about religion with you; I think your foundation is strong enough to withstand a bunch of semi-strangers attempts to question your beliefs. I also don't think you should regard people's responses here as mockery or rejections. People simply want to share their convictions and theories to help you save some time or lead a better life. Because we all think we're right.
Many people need to experience things for themselves before accepting any other views on the subject. The important thing is that you explore life and its various aspects, and never take one path for granted. If you spend long periods pursuing a certain goal, even missing that goal will still be worth the journey, because it was your journey and undertaking it led you to wisdom concerning other aspects of life.

Example from life:
Years and years ago I tried to convince Helm that the body and mind are one, and that we're all just subjects to the predetermined aspects of our physical entities. He still chose to go on a 3 year long inner pilgrimage to attain spiritual deliverance. His monk-like life wasn't necessary in my eyes, but it gave him a solid platform to stand on when taking on other hardships later in life.
I would never point at him and go "I told you!" because I firmly believe he learnt things that I missed out on.
And later on, I stopped pondering so much about existentialism and turned more pragmatic in my own pursuit to become a better person.

Some people have "missioned" already, in various ways, and feel a desire to teach others. Listen to those who have lived inquisitively and tried on some different paths to the multiple endings of life. 

A virgin can't help you with your sexlife, but a person who's never voluntarily abstained can't help you endure your celibacy.

Vince Twelve

Let's make some assumptions.

1) There is a god and your religion (this could be anyone, really, not just Mormonism) got it right.
2) He will accept good people into heaven who believe in him and act according to whatever rules the "correct" religion has laid out.

Church (temple, mosque) lets out after the daily services and as two of the church-goers are walking across the street, a giant out of control truck runs them both down (in accordance with god's plan, right?).  They are killed instantly and find themselves at the gates to heaven facing St. Peter or John Smith or who ever's running things up there nowadays.

The gatekeeper is going to analyze both of their lives and choose to deny both of them entrance, accept one but not the other, or accept them both.

He opens both files.  Both men were born into families practicing the one "true" religion.  They both attend church every week.  They adhere fairly strictly to the rules and do a good job spreading the good word.  They're both "good" men as defined by the church.  But there are some differences in their pasts.

One of the men listened to everything his parents taught him, studied the religion in Sunday School and church, and had always followed the fold.  He believed in all the teachings of the religion vehemently and rejected any other ideas that were not in line with the "truth" that he had been taught.  If you asked him why he believed what he believed he would tell you it was because that was what was written in the holy book which contained the one and only true testament of god.  He didn't need to compare it to other religions because, simply, he had been told that the other religions were following false teachings and that was good enough for him.

The other man also listened to everything his parents taught him and studied hard in Sunday School and church.  But when he reached a certain age, he started questioning things.  He realized that there were millions of other people on the planet who all believed in different things, and he wanted to learn about them to make sure that what he believed was correct.  He wanted to at least have enough information to make the choice himself rather than having it made for him.  When he told his parents they were furious.  The leaders of his church warned him that he should not stray from the path.  But he was determined to learn all he could.  He left the church for several years, studying other religions and often attending services.  He visited Jewish temples, talked with Muslim philosophers, and had deep discussions with atheists.  In the end, he examined all the information he had gathered over his five-year absence from his parents' religion and after long contemplation, realized that the god that he believed in and the religion whose teachings rang truest in his heart was his original religion that he had started in.  He went back, but didn't apologize to his parents.  Instead, he explained to him how his travels and studies, though they caused him to briefly stray (he drank some caffeine, prayed to a few different gods, and had even had sex with a beautiful girl), had actually strengthened his beliefs and dedication to the church.  He rejoined and has been a faithful follower ever since.  If you asked him why he believed what he believed, he'd lay out a landscape of philosophy and moral reasoning, comparing intricate aspects of other religions and talking about the nature of god.

Now, the gate keeper is faced with the choice.  Who gets into heaven.  On one hand, the first guy has been a follower his entire life and has never strayed, while the second one took a rather un-sanctioned field trip.  On the other hand, the first guy followed the religion just because that's what he had been told.  He'd never really thought about it.  He wanted to be a good Mormon/Baptist/Methodist/Whatever because of the promise of heaven -- essentially a selfish reason.  The second guy followed the religion because of his philosophical and moral convictions had led him to the informed belief that this was the truth.  He believed because he had studied, reasoned, and considered.

So, obviously, since they're both following the "correct" religion, they stand a good chance of getting in to heaven.  Does the second one get denied entrance to heaven because of his five year excursion?  I would hope not.  That would mean that god doesn't have a sense of redemption.  What would that mean for all of the people that had converted to the religion.  They would have converted under the false promises that converting would save their souls and send them to heaven.

Do they both get in?  If so, then the ends justify the means.  They've both gone out with the same primary result: eternity in paradise.  So following the example of either of them would be acceptable.  However, only one of them went out with my utmost respect, and probably the respect of a lot of others.  We could also ask the questions, of the two, which had the more fulfilling life?

Which of these two lives would you like to lead?

Nikolas

#278
Monkey,

I just want to say that AGS forum is pretty much my online home as well.

no matter who I am today, 2 years after registering, and 2000 posts after, and many forums and sites after, I still open my browser to this forum. And somehow I doubt that I will go away.

That said, there are people that get to me, and people that I like. which happens in real life as well. And as in real life I deal with it.

You have never been the religious type of guy, like rharpe for example, which I personally think that is to your benefit.

In the end of time, you can do your mission, you can do whatever you like and you can wait for the 14 year old, which could very well be the one (I have no doubt that she could), until she's 16-17 and then it will be fine, no problem!

I am a strong personal believer that everything comes to those who wait. That everybody gets what they deserve. That everybody should act as they feel. And let me ellaborate on the last.

while many of us might feel strange on the mission thing and the 14 year old, I would think that it might be just perfect for you! Perfect, not good! Perfect!

I don't have experience of another girl in my life, and for all I know Evi (wife's name), would be severely defected in the sex part of things. But so what? I love it when we have sex, and I love spending time with her and have no trouble. she is MY mission, sort of saying. Nobody can give me any claims or arguments that she is not MY mission. Same with your mission. If it makes you happy, by all means go ahead. Even if the truth is not there. Even if it is plainly obvious that it's not right! If it pleasures you, or makes you feel right, then yes!

If you enjoy leading a religious life, a decent life, then who are we to say anything really?

If I claim that I enjoy getting beaten up constantly, who are you to tell me it's wrong? If I like it? (I don't, it's just an example, ok)?

Μακάριοι οι πτωχοί τω πνεύματι. Fortunate those of the poor mind (poor translation). He who doesn't know what is he missing has no problem, or misses nothing! he who doesn't know the truth, is not bothered by the lie. If I live and die thinking I'm the greatest man alive, and nobody wakes me up, then why not? Why should I care about the truth of things? The absolute truth?

there is much truth to the fact that religion blinds you and all that talk about making you own decisions etc... but I personally don't care about that! Philosophy is nice and freedom of mind is nice as well, but we never get that, and if one is happy as he is, why wake him up? (all this considering that there is any fault to the way you live, which I find none! ok?)

EDIT: How tricky Vince! well done on this!
I will have to leave your questions unanswered really, myself. I do know which life I lead and which life I take my family with, for which I carry extra burden, but other than that what will happen in the after life and what Jack Smith will say to me at the gates, is a mystery... But if masturbation is a sin, then really, but really, but really, I'll go to deep hell... (and I'm not kidding. I'm just saying that I really don't follow the church, any church rules, I make my own more or less, based on the fact that I try to do "good" and be nice, so that people can be nice in return (how's that for a reason to do the good?))...

Meowster

#279
Quote
Basically what I got from Yeowster's statements is that she would rather live the way she wants and not live her life in fear of "go[ing] to hell" than to worry about it. This is where we differ in opinions though. Because even though I've made mistakes in my past, I'd still rather lead a good life and be wrong about this religion stuff than to satisfy my temporal pleasures and be right about it.


You don't have to follow a religion to lead a good life. In fact, the life you're leading isn't one that I'd consider particularly good at all, especially since you're going out of your way to preach your views onto other people who really, you should just leave alone. In my view, premarital sex with somebody you love and are serious about isn't a sin at all, and it certainly doesn't give you "good" points. It's this kind of repression that has probably led you to fall in love with a 14 year old girl, so in fact I would consider sexual repression a very bad thing indeed.

So just because you're following your religion doesn't necessarily mean that you're leading a good life. That's where you're wrong.

I live the way *I* believe is good, and I don't need people or religion or a book or a fictional being in the sky to tell me that it's good. I love helping people. I love being generous and kind and I love making people happy. I send all my friends and family carefully considered gifts for their birthday and love to see them happy to use them/play with them/whatever. When my friend's PC blew up, I asked around at work to see if anybody had any spare parts lying around that they were going to throw out, to construct him a new one as a surprise gift. In the end, there was an entire PC that was going to be thrown out so he got that instead :) I love babysitting children because they get so happy when I draw pictures of them riding ponies and things like that.

I really, really love making people happy.

I'm not a bad person.

So, understandably, I don't see why I should go to hell just because I don't believe in God, despite the fact he's given no real solid proof of his existence. In fact, there is far more proof that he doesn't exist.

I think it's absolutely horrific to decree that a person such as myself should go to hell because I didn't worship a God... a God who, to be honest, isn't very good or kind or generous at all.

I think it's even more selfish to go around spreading "the word" of God to people that you should just leave be. Why would anybody want to be involved in your horrid religion which promotes the eternal burning of people who don't worship a single invisible, selfish god? You are supporting a barbaric, unforgiving, wrathful god, and I don't consider that good. You're encouraging other people to worship this barbaric, cruel god too, and I don't consider THAT good either.

So it's foolish to think that following your religion automatically means you're living your life well, and that even if you're wrong about the religion, you still lived a good life.

Because all it really means is that if you were wrong about your religion, you lived a really repressed life AND you wasted other people's time with lies and led other people to believe in a false religion and waste their lives too. So in fact you led a really bad, pointless existence.


There are lots of things about your religion that I would consider as having a bad effect on your life or the lives of other people, so it really IS worth considering whether that's what you want in your life and whether you really believe it... because as I said... if you find out it was all lies at the end, you WON'T be happy that you led a good life.... because you didn't:

1. Spreading false religion to other people
2. Denying yourself the pleasure of a loving, intimate pre-marital relationship
3. Denying other people that from you
4. Repression of sexual build-up can be bad for your health (ask a doctor)
5. Supporting political campaigns that use things taught as being correct/incorrect by your religion, IE homosexuality is wrong, pre-marital sex is wrong, religion being taught in schools etc
6. In fact there's another one right there - you'll inevitably base opinions on people because of things your religion has taught. Such as Homosexuals... I'm sure you'd never be closely friendly with a gay man because that's a sin. Such terrible lies are told about homosexual people in so many churchs... it's disgusting and to support such bullying is a really terrible thing.
7. Supporting things such as no contraception in African countries, helping the spread of AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases
8. Discouraging divorce. I know of many religious couples who never divorced because they'd be looked down on by their church. While I believe a couple should be together forever once they're married, and I would hate to and try very hard never to divorce my husband... I believe that if a relationship is broken, divorce is the way to go. You're 40 years old, are you going to live the next 40+ years in misery and lonely in a bad relationship, just because someone somewhere decided that's what you should do?


slightly off-topic... I once read in a christian leaflet about how divorce and adultery was wrong and a mortal sin blah di blah. The story that they gave in the leaflet was about this woman who was 35 years old and in an unhappy relationship with her husband. Her husband paid her no attention, did not love her and spent no time with her. They had no children, so she spent all of her time at home alone. After work, he would go out with his friends and not return home until late, and even though she was desperate for children, he wouldn't "lie with her" (christian word for 'shag' apparently).

Then one day she met one of his friends. He took an interest in her and they got on very well. Their relationship developed and she felt like she was falling in love with him. He would take her to nice places, he would listen to her heartache and worries, he shared the same interests as her.

But she realised that God did not want her to stray from her husband, so she cut off all contact with this man before a stronger bond was allowed to be formed. She had a narrow escape from sin, but her belief in God saved her from this path.

NOW I ASK YOU, WTF?!?!?!? That story is meant to be uplifting and inspire you to be a good christian, but OH MAN! Basically she just fucked the last chance she had to live a happy life, and to have a lovely family... her husband is still an unloving dickhead, and she's going to be miserable and lonely and childless FOR THE REST OF HER LIFE.

!?!?!?!?

Just thought I'd mention that because it was really horrible... anyway, in similar ways your religion can affect you, Monkey, because you may be leading a life that you believe is right (as in her example) but which ultimately is only considered right by her church, and now she's going to be miserable for the rest of her fucking life.

What a depressing story.

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