Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing

Started by Helm, Mon 16/04/2007 21:47:35

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Damien

QuoteSo what do you believe? Random creatures evolving from primordial ooze after a random bang that happened in the universe?
Yes, evolution, among other things.
QuoteHow could God not exist? Everything in creation is so complex, it couldn't have happened randomly.
And where did He came from?
QuoteScientists have barely even scratched the surface of the human body, let alone anything else. Less than 20% of species have even been discovered yet.
And that's your argument? We know little, so there must be a God?
QuoteIt baffles me how quick you people are to reject God and Jesus Christ. Why not reject Allah? Buddha? Shiva? Guru Nanak?
Being an atheist surely includes not believing in those, too.
QuoteWell, at least blasphemy against Christ is forgivable by Him. But blaspheming the Holy Spirit... that's another issue. All of you- so stiff necked! Why do you all curse in Christ's name? Why not Allah's?
Why do you assume it matters to me? Also, I see no cursing.
QuoteIslam kills itself off with blatant contradictions. In some places it takes an almost biblical stance on violence, then it says to beat your wife.
I agree, but that wasn't my point (but you already know that). Let me ask you again, do you agree that if you were born on Islam territory, in an Islamic family, you would be 100% with that religion, as you are now with Christianity?

MrColossal

QuoteSo what do you believe? Random creatures evolving from primordial ooze after a random bang that happened in the universe?

Evolution and natural selection is not random and the only people who say it is are religious people trying to disprove it. You don't understand the science behind it, sorry.

QuoteIt baffles me how quick you people are to reject God and Jesus Christ. Why not reject Allah? Buddha? Shiva? Guru Nanak?  

I reject God, Jesus, Allah, Buddha, Thor, Zeus, Loki, Shiva, Guru Nanak, The Dalai Llama, Sylvia Browne, Pat Robertson, Deepak Chopra, anything that was on the old TV show In Search Of, ghosts, the supernatural, the holy spirit, the resurrection, the transubstantiation, a soul, sin, uh... Baal? Anything else you want me to reject?

And who said anything about quick? You say it as if I haven't given any thought to religion or the supernatural. I've thought long and hard about it and I realize [not believe] that it's all crap and useless to me.

QuoteIslam kills itself off with blatant contradictions.

I'm not, and I hope no one else does, going to get into a "oh yea? the bible says this terrible thing!" "Oh yea, Islam says this terrible thing!" because it's pointless. It'd go one forever and you don't care.

Jesus did not die for me either. If he did I never asked him to. I also never asked this supposed God to create me. Maybe I was happier not being created. Maybe I was nothing not being created and if I was nothing than I was neither sad or happy so what's the point of creating me? If I gave someone out of the goodness of my heart 20 bucks and they turned around and bought me something with it I'd be pissed. If I gave someone 20 bucks and told them that the only thing they can do with that money is buy me something, I'd hope they'd give it right back and tell me to piss off.

QuoteOpening up a church and letting them in is great, but that doesn't grant them salvation.

Basically what you want to do is bring a homeless person in, give them something to eat, give them a shower, maybe a new pair of pants and then say "Oh by the way, you will burn in hell for all eternity unless you accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior." Holy shit like their life isn't bad enough!

If you believe that their life is terrible but their AFTERLIFE is what you're more worried about, why don't you go to Iraq and try converting people there? You go, maybe you'll convert some people and you'll probably die. You die, you go to heaven. Not a big deal is it? I'm always confused why deeply religious people aren't out in war torn areas all the time running into mine fields to save children, taking bullets for doctors trying to remove shrapnel from a soldiers head or any other heroic action. If you die you go to heaven! AWESOME! You did some good for the world and now you're in heaven, right?

Also, why do religious people cry at funerals of loved ones?

I am a very happy human being. I am an animal brought about by natural selection and evolution who has a super girlfriend for 6 or so years, a family that loves me, a job that I love, a cat that explodes with cuteness, an apartment to live in, enough money to more than get by and the only thing that scares me is losing my harddrive in a crash. I'm not afraid of the bogeyman or ghosts or sin or the devil. Humans have a fear of the unknown, sure, but not a fear of make believe.

My life is great but I don't think a true believer will ever accept that.
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

vict0r

Quote from: Steel Drummer on Sat 28/04/2007 20:15:34
Haha! :D Magic??! That's kid's stuff. You seriously are telling me that you are an atheist, yet you believe in magic. 

Dude :P They would see it as magic stuff.. Misunderstanding there.


QuoteVict0r, why don't you go to hell, and then see what you think of God. And while you're at it, read the Bible. Get some answers about life, instead of believing in magic, like something straight out of a Disney film.

I'm actually reading the bible. How much I read at the time varies, but I am reading it. If I were to go to hell I would prolly not grow too fond of your god for sending me there.



And I don't believe in magic. As I said, I'm quite against organized religion.

QuoteSo if they don't exist, how can they go to hell?

As I believe that they only exist in your head (both god and hell), it could go to to hell there.

QuoteMy life is great but I don't think a true believer will ever accept that.
:)

Captain Lexington

Seeing as how I'm an atheist, or at least agnostic, I will indeed curse Allah, and any other deities you may care to name. But what you said about Buddha...

Okay, everyone, listen up:

BUDDHA IS NOT A GOD. BUDDHISTS DO NOT THINK HE IS GOD. BUDDHISM DOESN'T EVEN HAVE A GOD. IT DOESN'T ADDRESS THE ISSUE.

Buddhism is a religion in name only. It's more like a way of life.

PS: I do become really angry when people start arguing about religion, because I used to do the same with people in person. I once even did it on a Christian talk show on the radio. But I have grown up [some] since then. It's just that Christians usually misrepresent atheistic arguments, and I find it rather unfair. If anything I say comes off as personal, I would like to say right now that it isn't.

Ghormak

Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 28/04/2007 20:22:54My life is great but I don't think a true believer will ever accept that.
It's because they'll get the last laugh! Just you wait! When we all die, you'll go to HELL because you were a good person who didn't thumbs-up to Jesus whenever you did something nice!

Burn, Mr "I think my life is so good"!
Achtung Franz! The comic

MrColossal

quick reply to Orator:

Can I reject the silly idea of perfect enlightenment and being tempted by demons?
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

vict0r

Quote from: Ghormak on Sat 28/04/2007 20:33:18
Burn, Mr "I think my life is so good"!

Indeed! You're not so Colossal now, are ya?!






:=

Tartalo

Quote
Give some reasons why it's so primitive. 

An specific example of an specific Religion. Not so much years ago the Catholic Church made a revision of their Catechism, they don't do this often and is an important text. They still condemned Homosexuality.

And what is the basis for that? A text that in the next paragraph condemns mixing wool and leather, eating pork and going to Church with a harmed testicle. A bit later this book recommends killing your son in public if he is lazy and eats too much.

That text (Was it Deuteronomy?) is a bit too primitive for my taste to be taken seriously as an basis for my ethics.

But the problem, as I see it, is not the Bible alone, is this idea that something can be right without need of analysis or discussion.

Gord10

Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 28/04/2007 20:22:54
I also never asked this supposed God to create me. Maybe I was happier not being created. Maybe I was nothing not being created and if I was nothing than I was neither sad or happy so what's the point of creating me? If I gave someone out of the goodness of my heart 20 bucks and they turned around and bought me something with it I'd be pissed. If I gave someone 20 bucks and told them that the only thing they can do with that money is buy me something, I'd hope they'd give it right back and tell me to piss off.
Actually Islam has an explanation for this issue:
Every souls were created by God before the start of time  (I may know the 'time' of the creation wrong; just sure it was before the creation of the Earth and human being).
God asks every soul "Do you want to live and accept my rules for the Earth life?" and the whole souls accept it. But we all forget these events when we get born.
This is why we are not allowed to think in the "I also never asked this supposed God to create me." way.

My personal thoughts about this:
If such an event really happened; it is not so different from having sex with a 13 years old girl with mental illness. "But she really wanted this, it is not rape!!!"
Games are art!
My horror game, Self

Captain Lexington

Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 28/04/2007 20:34:25
quick reply to Orator:

Can I reject the silly idea of perfect enlightenment and being tempted by demons?

Sure can!

But don't reject the existence of historically documented persons. It's unhealthy.

(I'm not a Buddhist, see. I just thing Buddha's a nice guy. Same as Jesus, really...)

EDIT:
Quote from: Ghormak on Sat 28/04/2007 20:33:18
Burn, Mr "I think my life is so good"!

When I first read it, I interpreted it as you being like Kelso, and going 'BURN!' Which would be awesome.

Instead, I see you are really more of a Fred Phelps 'BURN, SINNER, BURN!' type guy.

Babar

This discussion just went downhill. So sad.

The Orator, I'm not all that knowledgeable about Buddhism, and I realise that it's mostly just a way of life, but I'm sure that they worship Buddha. I've seen them sit down in rows infront of a statue and chant continuously: "I seek refuge in Buddha".

Just something to note, but if someone talked/preached about God the amount some people in this thread went to bash religion, they'd be shot down in flames for "pushing religion down everyone's throats".
The ultimate Professional Amateur

Now, with his very own game: Alien Time Zone

Captain Lexington

Quote from: Babar on Sat 28/04/2007 20:47:12
The Orator, I'm not all that knowledgeable about Buddhism, and I realise that it's mostly just a way of life, but I'm sure that they worship Buddha. I've seen them sit down in rows infront of a statue and chant continuously: "I seek refuge in Buddha".

Well, that's not very nice of them! Buddha asked not to be worshiped!

Quote from: Babar on Sat 28/04/2007 20:47:12
Just something to note, but if someone talked/preached about God the amount some people in this thread went to bash religion, they'd be shot down in flames for "pushing religion down everyone's throats".

That's exactly why I stopped arguing about this with other people. I felt so hypocritical. I'm just here to clear out errors in arguments.

Ghormak

Quote from: The Orator on Sat 28/04/2007 20:41:20Instead, I see you are really more of a Fred Phelps 'BURN, SINNER, BURN!' type guy.

Haha, no. Fuck god.
Achtung Franz! The comic

Damien


Captain Lexington

Quote from: Ghormak on Sat 28/04/2007 20:56:22
Quote from: The Orator on Sat 28/04/2007 20:41:20Instead, I see you are really more of a Fred Phelps 'BURN, SINNER, BURN!' type guy.

Haha, no. Fuck god.

Oh, yes. In hindsight, I didn't expect Fred Phelps to call anyone Mr 'I think my life is so good!'

Sorry!

Nikolas

oh boy!

Lovely!

A creationist! ;D

Ah well...

I can certainly accept some kind of "magical" (<-notice the "") force somewhere, somehow (don't care, don't ask) who ... well helps me when I need it and doesn't mind if I pisses him (see? a male god! yup! ;D ;D ;D) off...

On the other hand, I totally refuse to do anything with religion, whether this is budhism (a religion, yup), christianity, moronism, whatever. Exactly because there are chances that the ancient Greeks had it right in the first place, I don't want to waste my chances... (ok, not serious here, but definately, there's no way a sinlge religion will have it right!).

so I take my chances alone. being nice, helpful, masterbating a lot, with pron, having sex with my wife and no one else (it wouldn't be... nice :p) and not screwing up anybody, at least to my knowledge...

That's about it for me :D

voh

Quote from: Ghormak on Sat 28/04/2007 20:33:18
It's because they'll get the last laugh! Just you wait! When we all die, you'll go to HELL because you were a good person who didn't thumbs-up to Jesus whenever you did something nice!

You know what the funny thing is? If there is a heaven and hell, I'd rather go to hell because that's where everybody I know is going to be ;)

I know (and I'm effin' serious) 2 christians, 1 muslim and 3 agnostics. Everybody else is an atheist, and that's tens of people in my direct neighbourhood. Religion is pretty much seen as being backwards here, which is a direct consequence of 44.4% of the Dutch population saying of themselves that they're Atheist (Cahtolicism is second at 27%). We don't discuss religion unless it's about the *cough*US*cough* or the *cough*muslims*cough* which we're told we should be afraid of, but really aren't.

Religion is a non-issue for me and I gotta say, my life is full of good things and good people. I am, and I'm not trying to sound arrogant, a good person and I help whoever needs it if I can. If not believing in an invisible man up in the clouds is going to mean that for some reason I'm not worthy to deserve a reward in the afterlife, ENTIRELY regardless of my actions otherwise, God's got his priorities all f'ed up. Honestly.
Still here.

Damien


Steel Drummer

#338
Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 28/04/2007 20:22:54
Jesus did not die for me either. If he did I never asked him to. I also never asked this supposed God to create me. Maybe I was happier not being created. Maybe I was nothing not being created and if I was nothing than I was neither sad or happy so what's the point of creating me?
Jesus died for everyone, whether you wanted Him to or not.

Quote from: MrColossal on Sat 28/04/2007 20:22:54
Evolution and natural selection is not random and the only people who say it is are religious people trying to disprove it. You don't understand the science behind it, sorry.
You know what? Before Darwin, and even during Darwin's time, scientists still believed in creation- even those who didn't believe in a particular god.

I have a quote from Bob Marley that really disproves evolution (and I'm paraphrasing it here): 

"If evolution exists, then why aren't monkeys changing into people nowadays?"

Ghormak (regarding your Buddhism comment): Christianity is a way of life too, but people have gotten so legalistic that it's become a 'religion'. 

Tartalo: Catholicism is not really true Christianity. For one, the Roman Empire just took all the old god and goddess worship stuff and put it into a biblical mindset. That's why they're praying to Mary; before the Roman Catholic Church was formed, they prayed to Venus (or any other female goddesses). Catholicism is a really wacked out view of Christianity, to say the least; always revising their theology (most of which is just made up, or else taking the Bible out of context)- recently the new pope said that hell is no longer a state of mind, it's a real place. The Bible already established that fact. 

About the Deuteronomy thing: most of those laws no longer apply any more. That book was included in the Bible to show what the original laws were like (and I think the book you meant was Leviticus, which has the laws). After Jesus came, He introduced a freer, kind of 'religion of love' belief in God. Animal sacrifices were no longer necessary, and people could eat 'unclean' animals. 

Orator:
Quote(I'm not a Buddhist, see. I just thing Buddha's a nice guy. Same as Jesus, really...)
Yes, Buddha probably had some good things going for him, morally, but with any of these 'faith' founders: Mohammed, Gautama, etc.- None of them claimed to be God's son, or even asked to receive worship. The only one who did was Jesus. A lot of people nowadays hate Christianity because of a stereotyped view of the American 'MacJesus' sort of Christianity, but that's not what it's really like. Televangelists are sleazebags.   

One thing that bugs me the most about people (especially on these forums) is not that they follow a different faith than I do- it's when they say that there's not a god of any kind, and they reject any sort of faith- bashing it constantly. 

Quote from: Babar
Just something to note, but if someone talked/preached about God the amount some people in this thread went to bash religion, they'd be shot down in flames for "pushing religion down everyone's throats".
That is incredibly true. It only proves that there is a god, because those who preach Him get bashed, but those who reject Him don't.

Quote from: nikolas
steel drummer,

don't tell me that you are honestly trying to prove the existance of god in a forum like AGS..

Yes, and I'm being outnumbered by those who believe in evolution mumbo-jumbo. I'd rather join sides with a Muslim than someone who held the views of MrColossal or Nikolas (or almost anybody here).
I'm composing the music for this game:



Nikolas

steel drummer,

don't tell me that you are honestly trying to prove the existance of god in a forum like AGS...???

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