Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing

[Meowster]

Those were different times. A lot of people nowadays have totally rejected God, and the world is a lot more corrupt than it was back in those days.

More people believe in god now then they did in the day the bible was written. Christianity has spread far further due to missions and things like that. Also, there was far more barbaric killing, women were treated VERY badly in those days, there was far more condoned violence and public hangings/stonings etc... even for very mild crimes such as a poor person stealing some bread to stay alive.

In conclusion: in those days, the number of Christians were far less than today and those that did exist were cruel, violent, judgemental and oppressive of people such as the sick, the poor, foreign people and women. Much of the population of the rest of the world was even worse... look at the barbaric killings and disfiguring traditions that occured in many countries in "those days".

Therefore, I would argue that god flaunting his powers in the bible but not flaunting his powers now is completely without excuse. he created men to be curious and to question things around them, after all. And surely by your argument, if he's not showing his powers to people nowadays because of corruption (even though I've already pointed out that things aren't more corrupt now), that means he's effectively abandoned his creations. Decided we're not good enough any more, is ignoring us.

It baffles me that you stick up for your view of god so much, when it is one of a cruel, oppressive, judgemental, two-faced and cold-hearted god. You seem to be arguing that your god IS an asshole. I don't understand why you wouldn't defend him as being kind, forgiving and leniant... unless you've never really thought about what it is that you worship.

Tell me, Steel DRummer... do you believe in the old testament and the new testament as both being fact?

[Steel Drummer]

In conclusion: in those days, the number of Christians were far less than today and those that did exist were cruel, violent, judgemental and oppressive of people such as the sick, the poor, foreign people and women.

What Christians would those be? Name a few.

[Meowster]

What Christians would those be? Name a few.

There are so many examples of it. You know yourself how people were stoned to death and tortured etc. You didn't say if you believed in the old testament or the new testament, or both? Please let me know which you believe in.

I'm not saying your religion is evil as it is now, but you MUST understand that terrible things that Christianity has done for the world in the past. In fact, the very spread of Christianity can be attributed to the violent methods and scare tactics that Christians used to spread it. In the dark ages, Christians would burn people for being witches or for committing "heresy", an example of which was to say that the earth was round and revolved around the sun!

The fact is that Christians haven't always been the nice lovely people you take them to be now. 2000 years ago, the times were very different indeed. If you DO believe in the bible, you'll know that there are some biblical stories which involve fathers having sex with daughters, men being commanded to kill their sons (and obeying!)... men giving their daughters up to be raped instead of allowing a man to be buggered... and all of this condoned by god!

You're very naive indeed if you believe that Christians have always been the pinnacle of holiness and goodness. By the values you live by today, then it's safe to say that the Christians of today are far superior and have better morals than the Christians of biblical times.

Try reading this for a start:

http://mwillett.org/atheism/christian-civilization.htm

[Steel Drummer]

I'm not saying your religion is evil as it is now, but you MUST understand that terrible things that Christianity has done for the world in the past. In fact, the very spread of Christianity can be attributed to the violent methods and scare tactics that Christians used to spread it. In fact, in the dark ages, Christians would burn people for being witches or for committing "heresy", an example of which was to say that the earth was round and revolved around the sun!

I know that, and it wasn't my religion, it was those pagan Catholics.

There are so many examples of it. You know yourself how people were stoned to death and tortured etc. You didn't say if you believed in the old testament or the new testament, or both? Please let me know which you believe in.

Both.

And it wasn't Christians who were stoning people, it was Christians themselves who were being stoned. Just wanted to clarify that, as it seems you didn't do much research.

[Meowster]

No, you're the one not doing the research. Just because there are a few examples in the bible of Christians themselves being stoned, does not mean all Christians were as good and pious and them. Read examples of how christians burned innocent people at the stake for being "witches" or believing things which have since been proven true such as that the earth is round.

Please read the link I provided.


It also shows, Christian or not, that people were arguable less "nice" back then, to put it in simple terms for you. Which nullifies your previous argument that god doesn't bother showing his existence nowadays  because people nowadays are more corrupt. I'd also like to know whether you support incest, as there are several parts in the bible where incest is condoned and I believe even encouraged by god.

I think you are speaking in place of god and I think that's an extremely sinful thing for you do be doing.

My suggestion to you, since you are such a "good christian" in your own eyes is this: read the bible. It always amazes me how many Atheists read the bible in comparison to "christians". You preach this book and live by it, and you haven't even bothered reading it. And there's no real point in denying that you haven't read it, because it's clearly evident by the way you're defending aspects of it.

It's also amazing to me that you consider homosexuality perverse, when the Bible is one of the most perverse books I have ever read in my entire life. It is disgustingly sexually perverse. If you don't believe me, SD... read it. If you choose to take those stories literally, then it is you who is perverse. Not homosexuals.


Also, Catholics are Christians. They are not pagans. Again, get your facts straight. Stop trying to separate yourself so much from the terrible acts that have been performed in the name of god.

[Erenan]

In my understanding, the "those days" we're talking about is mostly the Old Testament, before there were Christians at all. And the Christians during the time of the New Testament by and large were actually very good to the poor and sick, and they really were the ones being oppressed. The Bible really doesn't say much about the church after that, so I can't see how God was flaunting his power while Christians were being jerks.

However, the Old Testament is full of examples where God was flaunting his power specifically because of corruption.

[Helm]

CORRUPTION! STOP BEHAVING LIKE I MADE YOU BEHAVE GRRR

[Meowster]

Steel Drummer, please answer my question: do you believe everything in the old testament is fact?

[Erenan]

Helm: Well, maybe some even bigger God was making God behave irrationally. And then maybe he smote God when God behaved irrationally. Maybe that's why he's not flaunting his power any longer.

[Helm]

I want to talk to the management please.

[Nikolas]

You know,

The thing is that this is an adult forum (above 16). anyone bellow that age is more than welcome, but needs to behave, or else face the consequences. M. is giving SD the consequences, and I agree with her all the way!

don't care about no trolls or anything really!

SD, is stuborn!

Same way as I would treat anyone going professional in music, or be an ammateur. I would be suportive and kind, and sujective to the ammateur, but would probably give hell to the professional... (remember manic matts music to be sold, and so on?)

So until Sd understands or shuts up, don't see any reason why the rest of the forum should stop responding really (unless grow tired of him...)

[Hammerite]

Those were different times. A lot of people nowadays have totally rejected God, and the world is a lot more corrupt than it was back in those days.

OK, so it's a lot more corrupt because The Old Testament's resident madman isn't causing floods, "testing faiths" and sacrificing sons?
And besides wouldn't the rejection of god call for a big biblical atrocity from Ole Godfrey?

I like my idea!

[Khris]

There are so many examples of it. You know yourself how people were stoned to death and tortured etc. You didn't say if you believed in the old testament or the new testament, or both? Please let me know which you believe in.

Both.

So you consider all the passages that directly contradict each other as facts, too?
And do you believe that the earth is only around 6000 years old?

Just curious.

[Meowster]

Well have you read the Old Testament, SD?

Let me show you some of the things you believe are fact:
http://mwillett.org/atheism/family.htm

There's a couple of things they've forgotten to mention in that page, such as how if a woman does not bleed the first time she has sex, she can be stoned to death by the people of the village (or perhaps cast out forever, I can't remember exactly... it was 6 or so years since I read it). Now SD, maybe you are not aware, but many women DON'T bleed the first time they have sex, for many reasons indeed. I didn't bleed the first time *I* had sex. What do you think of that?

Imagine how many innocent women were wrongly accused of and punished for pre-marital sex under gods own command!

You might want to read about Polygamy in the bible. Since you believe everything in both the old and new testament, this should prove to you that Polygamy is absolutely OK by God under certain circumstances.

http://www.quransearch.com/ntpoly.htm

Perverse, wouldn't you agree? Or do you disagree with this aspect of the bible?


I really think you should continue this argument as best you can, especially if you are very certain and very sure, and very educated, about your faith. I'm very interested to see your replies, especially as you've already said yourself that

1. You think Polygamy is perverse
2. You believe in the old and new testament
3. God himself said that Polygamy is okay under certain circumstances.



PS. look at this everyone, this is what SD claims he believes should happen to women who have been raped:

In the OT, we also see that a virgin is forced to marry her rapist: "If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver.  He must marry the girl, for he has violated her.  He can never divorce her as
long as he lives.


How much of the old and new testament do you actually believe in, SD?

[biothlebop]

I want to talk to the management please.

What if you are the management?

[Helm]

I want to talk to the management please.

What if you are the management?

Then I guess

[lo_res_man]

Religion is a creation of human nature to put a human face on the universe, You can't plead with a force of nature but you can plead with a god. The weather follows patterns but can also vary wildly, it is "capricious" and what can also do that? People. and people can try to influence other people., even ones much more powerful then them. and what are gods, really powerful beings, a fancy word for people

[LimpingFish]

Do you realize that "God" spelled backwards is "Dog"?

And "Jesus" spells "Susej"?

And "Christianity" spells "Toilet Duck"?

Freaky.

[lo_res_man]

And "Christianity" spells "Toilet Duck"?

Freaky.

and just what the liminy snicket have you been smoking?

[LimpingFish]

Communion wafers.

(Blasphemy! He is SO going to hell!)