Ideal age/Now mostly about Religion and Religious Upbringing

Started by Helm, Mon 16/04/2007 21:47:35

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MrColossal

Just to add in a quote of Carl Sagan's I read last night:

"Why should God be so clear in the Bible and so obscure in the world?"

Thanks Carl!
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

Meowster

That's a really nice quote, Colossal.

I'm hoping that, at this point, the reason yodaman is not longer responding is because he's exploded.

lo_res_man

Quote from: Raggit on Tue 01/05/2007 20:04:08
While we're at it, everybody check out the Skeptics Annotated Bible, if you haven't already:  http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Though It's a well thought out and well meaning piece, do these people have any husiness doing this? Do creationists make a annotated "Origin of Specis"? or "A brief history of time" or issues of Scientific American?
†Å"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge.†
The Restroom Wall

Erenan

To your first question: Of course they do. Skeptics have as much right to comment on the Bible as believers do.
The Bunker

lo_res_man

I am not saying comment on, I mean a piece by piece highlighting. You can write a review on anything
†Å"There is much pleasure to be gained from useless knowledge.†
The Restroom Wall

MrColossal

Same answer really

"Of course they do. Skeptics have as much right to comment on the Bible as believers do."

Why should they not comment on each part of the bible? There are religious people who claim all of natural science, biology, archeology etc is wrong because a book says so, why can't we question that book?

Do you feel it is disrespectful?
"This must be a good time to live in, since Eric bothers to stay here at all"-CJ also: ACHTUNG FRANZ!

Meowster

Quote from: lo_res_man on Tue 01/05/2007 20:13:18
Quote from: Raggit on Tue 01/05/2007 20:04:08
While we're at it, everybody check out the Skeptics Annotated Bible, if you haven't already:  http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
Though It's a well thought out and well meaning piece, do these people have any husiness doing this? Do creationists make a annotated "Origin of Specis"? or "A brief history of time" or issues of Scientific American?

Yes they do. Of course they do. It also points out that few christians actually READ the bible.

Piece by piece highlighting? Why not, when the things that are being highlighted piece-by-piece are absolutely disgusting and atrocious acts that no good god would condone? Why not highlight it piece-by-piece, if it educates SD a little bit. He clearly has no idea of the contents of the book he so hotly defends.

I'm not sure how yodaman will react to these posts, but if he has an ounce of decency in him, he'll be horrified to see the things he believes in without question include the murder of babies, the rape of women, slavery, etc. These are things that churches gloss over, because nobody wants to think that their god ordered the death of a baby. The catholic school that I went to taught that the old testament wasn't real, it was just a bunch of parables that were meant to be good stories or something like this. Who told them this was the case? Nobody, they decided for themselves that it couldn't be real because it was too unlike the image of god they wanted to believe in.

SD has believed in what he's been TOLD about god, but he's only been taught very select things about him. If he sits down to read the bible one day like A GOOD CHRISTIAN SHOULD, I'm sure he'll be horrified at what he sees. Perhaps when he sees god ordering babies to be murdered, women to be raped, children to be savaged... when he sees jesus encouraging polygamy... maybe then he'll reconsider how accurate the things god thinks about gay people are. Maybe he'll take a step back and think about what it is that he's REALLY believing in.

Another reason we should pick it apart piece-by-piece is this: the beliefs of Fundamentalist Christians, which are based on a 2000 year old story, are setting human rights back. Think of thinks like gay marriage, which is not allowed in many countries and American states for religious reasons. They're not harmless beliefs. They are beliefs which, for no other reason than a story from 2000 years ago, discriminate against members of todays society.

Erenan

As far as the right of skeptics to go through the Bible in that way, it's important to remember that the text doesn't belong to anyone. We're talking about archaelogical documents here. Creationists and Christians in general don't really have any more possession of it than anyone else does.

EDIT: But you know, to be fair, some of the commentary in the SAB is a little stupid and uninformed.
The Bunker

evenwolf

Highlighting every piece of the Bible reminds me of something....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=E_EXqdJ4L7I


Each little phrase or quote in the Bible should be broken down by anyone trying to find spirituality.  How would anybody not have the right to do this?   Entire sects of Christianity were formed based on disagreements between tedious little fragments of language.

Skeptics have every right, and hope that more Chistians condemn us to hell while still preaching forgiveness.  Its what led me to the truth after all.
"I drink a thousand shipwrecks.'"

Steel Drummer

Quote
SD has believed in what he's been TOLD about god, but he's only been taught very select things about him. If he sits down to read the bible one day like A GOOD CHRISTIAN SHOULD, I'm sure he'll be horrified at what he sees. Perhaps when he sees god ordering babies to be murdered, women to be raped, children to be savaged... when he sees jesus encouraging polygamy... maybe then he'll reconsider how accurate the things god thinks about gay people are. Maybe he'll take a step back and think about what it is that he's REALLY believing in.

I've read the entire Bible, and nowhere have I read it condoning abortion, rape, or anything like that. You are making bold assumptions.
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Redwall

And you're lying, but it doesn't matter.

QuoteThough It's a well thought out and well meaning piece, do these people have any husiness doing this? Do creationists make a annotated "Origin of Specis"? or "A brief history of time" or issues of Scientific American?

http://www.conservapedia.com/
aka Nur-ab-sal

"Fixed is not unbroken."

Steel Drummer

Quote
And you're lying, but it doesn't matter.
You're just saying that because you can't come up with an excuse for your 'Bible supports abortion and rape', crap.
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Helm

This is reaching beyond senseless. Steel Drummer's 'argumentation' has begun to break down almost to a failure of language and communication. The next round of replies can very well be 'ugh ugh huh hu GOD!'.

Why do you do this? If you have no answer, why not be silent? They are making a very clear point by showing you passages in the bible you have in your own home, which condone murder and rape by the Old Testament god. What do you say to this? You say 'I didn't see any such passages in the Bible which I read!' What sort of argument is this?! The passages are right there! You're really infuriating. I know you're a child. I know you're regurgitating from what other people told you and you believed then because you have no critical faculties at this age. But you're TROLLING. You're disregarding, cheapening arguments and you don't have anything of worth to say for yourself but you keep replying.

I am formally asking the moderators of this board to enforce the age limit of the boards.
WINTERKILL

Steel Drummer

Quote
Why do you do this? If you have no answer, why not be silent? They are making a very clear point by showing you passages in the bible you have in your own home, which condone murder and rape by the Old Testament god. What do you say to this? You say 'I didn't see any such passages in the Bible which I read!' What sort of argument is this?! The passages are right there! You're really infuriating. I know you're a child. I know you're regurgitating from what other people told you and you believed then because you have no critical faculties at this age. But you're TROLLING. You're disregarding, cheapening arguments and you don't have anything of worth to say for yourself but you keep replying.
They didn't give passages from the Bible. I've read through the Bible many times, and I see none such things they speak of. I kindly asked if they would show me what they're talking about. You have nothing to say, because you keep repeating yourself in every post. I'm not going to listen to you, because to me, you're just some annoying online personality who may not even be real (that's probably what you think of me, too). 

Quote
I am formally asking the moderators of this board to enforce the age limit of the boards.
Why? You don't know how old I am.
I'm composing the music for this game:



deadsuperhero

I don't think the Bible  condones rape or murder. I could understand if you meant the Old Testament, which is chock full of war, rape,and anger.
But the sinners almost always get punished.
Though, I would like to read the passages you guys are talking about. Most times, translations get very misinterpreted, I think.
Ah, well. I live by faith, not religion. I think God doesn't think much of it, He knows I love Him.
Anywho, just my opinion. I'm not arguing "who's right/wrong"
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Steel Drummer

The Bible, even the Old Testament doesn't condone murder, I'm absolutely sure of it. The Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not kill.

I don't know, but maybe, just maybe, that passage is telling us not to kill people? ::)
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scotch

The Bible doesn't support rape or murder as options for people under any normal circumstances. Certainly God uses those things as tools, but it's explicitly stated that people aren't allowed to do those things unless given permission by him.

The god in the Bible has flooded the world, destroyed buildings and cities, turned people into salt, asked people to kill their children, blighted countries with plagues, killed people for breaking seemingly arbitrary rules, caused people to eat their children, etc etc. It's even stated that he's a "man of war". Which is fine, because he's God and he sets the rules. I'd assume that SteelDrummer accepts this, because he has stated he thinks his God destroyed New Orleans because they hosted gay pride parades. Lots of things he does are terrifying, and by the rules that we're supposed to follow, immoral. Which just means that his rules are different to the ones that his followers are prescribed.

You have to admit that the stories of the old testament read like typical ancient folklore though, right? They don't even have anything to teach a lot of the time, they're just historical tales about good stuff and bad stuff happening. God getting mad and killing people. God being pleased and helping people. It's not surprising that God is such a scary unpredictable force when every big event gets attributed to him.

Khris

Steel Drummer, would you PLEASE look up the bible passages mentioned here:
http://mwillett.org/atheism/family.htm
Then tell us either that you were talking b.s. and are really wrong or that the "bible" you've read was completely rewritten by the religious cult you belong to.

Meowster

Scotch, there are examples that have been given of God actually ordering men to do his evil for him, such as killing all the men and raping their wives. There's another paragraph I linked to where God says that if there is one non-believer in a village/town, then everybody in the town must be killed including women and children, and everything burned, including livestock.

SD, there are two possible reasons as to why you haven't seen these stories in your bible


1. You haven't read your bible, and you're now lying about it. Sin!
2. Your bible has had these stories cut out. You're reading a very much edited version of the bible which is not how god originally wrote it/told it. I wonder if this pleases god!?



If you look at the online bible I linked you to, it has many different versions where you can look up those stories..


The fact that you don't even believe they're in the bible is shocking. You're denying what is in the bible! You're actually sinning horribly! You're denying that God said these things, even though they're in plain view in any true bible (that hasn't been censored). You're actually defying God. Are you scared?

It just goes to show that you really do know nothing about what you believe in at all, and if you had any idea of the contents of that book you swear by, you probably wouldn't believe any more.

I challenge you, SD, to look up each and every one of those disgusting, perverse stories in your bible. Right now. Otherwise you're denying that they're in there, and you're defying God. Which is a terrible sin...



I'm tempted to buy a bible on the way home and take photographs of the parts I'm talking about... only SD would probably say I'd photoshopped it to say those things or whatever...


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