Shiny colouring - Main Character Revisited.

[ThreeOhFour]

Uhfgood: Thankyou, sir .

Evil: Thankyou for the comments - I hadn't noticed the square inside the sun! Must be blind...

Andail: I've tried to add some more little details, but I don't want to spend too much time on any of the backgrounds - this is meant to be a quick little diversion, not a month long project. Textures are, as ever, completely beyond me at this point, but hopefully I've helped to fill the backgrounds up a bit with some simple touches as you suggested. Your advice is, as usual, very helpful.




ProgZmax: Yes, I suck at the whole "cartoony body" thing . Yes, I tried to go further with these little graphics, but it seems I have trouble seeing outside the square. I am sure I'll get it with time. Thankyou for your nice edit of the trooper's pose and shading - some very interesting changes you've made. Hopefully I can get a grip on the whole proper pose this and also perhaps banish my pillow shading once and for all?

I'm really rather excited about this little project - I've been feeling a bit in the doldrums with regards to game design lately, and this quick little project is really getting me re-inspired. Paolo - if you're reading this, sorry about my quick digression into cartoon land, but I will be back on task for the next big one and more motivated as a result of this little endeavour.

Thankyou all very much - your comments not only help me improve but also keep me inspired, and I couldn't ask for anything more from anyone.

EDIT:

Update with guis. Do these look functional enough to yourselves?

[The Ivy]

I just have to say that you're rocking these backgrounds. I don't have much to add that hasn't already been said, but I think your design has integrated the characters, backgrounds, and GUIs perfectly. I'm also really impressed with that tree background. Good to see an original style. Keep up the good work!

[ThreeOhFour]

Thanks Ivy!

I've got most of the graphics done now - the game should be ready early next week .

(Depending on how I go with some of these scripting roadblocks )

Oh, and glad you like the tree background. I spent a fair while reshading the damn thing - since when was drawing big trees a good idea?

[Snarky]

Yeah, love those backgrounds, and especially those characters! It pushes so many of the right buttons for me. I'm a total sucker for that baroque "ancient civilization" fantasy/SF-style, especially when it includes a pinch of the absurd.

I have to mention that tree. The way it sweeps from root to branch is just wonderful. It could have been just a straightforward trunk with two branches, but instead there's that energetic arc. Very nice!

Can't say I'm feeling the same way about the GUI, I'm afraid. The main one is alright, I guess (though I personally think putting save/load/quit as top-level options is awkward), but I don't really get the inventory one. If it's accessed by clicking on the suitcase (which is visually out of place, by the way), why is it so far away from where my mouse cursor just was? And it's so small, it's gonna be a pain to hit it (check out Fitts' Law).

And even after fifteen years of playing Sierra games, I still can't tell at a glance what those inventory-specific cursor modes do. Check mark? Is that like OK?

I'd argue that the classic Sierra UI is not particularly well designed. For veteran players, the popup cursor mode menu is pretty redundant, and anything to do with the inventory is a total pain. Replace the popup actions menu with a popup inventory, and use the same cursor modes for the inventory as for the rest of the game, with the came right-click to cycle through them method. ("Talk to mushroom" may not be a particularly useful action, but you can leave most interactions as default "that doesn't work" statements.) Then you might have yourself a workable user interface.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

You clearly have found a style that works for you and looks visually pleasing at the same time.  What I would recommend is to apply some kind of detail to the backdrop, be it cloud lines or a very simple gradient (even three shades would do wonders).  I agree with Snarky about the design aspect of the gui, though I think stylistically it's very simple and effective.  Have you considered using a verbcoin interface?  Something that looks like a computer datapad or wrist computer might be very effective.  I don't mind the save/load options on the same field, but it might be cool to make the gui more computerized with a single gui that has drop-down fields for saving, inventory and the like. 

Here's a quick verbcoin example using scaled versions of your icons.  It doesn't make very efficient use of space but the four primary icons orbit an 'options' icon you can use just for inventory or to bring up a custom save/load/quit dialog.



You're doing quite well with this!

[ThreeOhFour]

Snarky - Glad you like the art style/setting. I'd be lying if I said I didn't draw some inspiration from Dresden Codak when drawing this sort of thing. If you haven't already, I suggest reading through the archives - it has an art style I absolutely adore.

GUI functionality is not something I've dwelled too long upon. I've never done a verbcoin - I just drew these up following the original AGS template style.

ProgZ - I plan to get some clouds in there. However, I think this is going to mean I have to add another colour to my palette. Not sure exactly which colour, but I shall have a play around with it and you'll hopefully see results very soon.

I like the idea of a verbcoin - I am thinking something along the lines of Reactor 09 with a few changes. I put the options in the middle of the verbcoin, and think perhaps a top down menu for the inventory? I'd like to really have it so there is no "Walk To" cursor... or have that as the standard, and then a verbcoin when I right click - this is also how I'd use inventory items.



Is putting the options in the middle of the coin a silly idea? Is an inventory at the top a silly idea? Is my verbcoin too big, too small or the wrong style art wise? Can you understand the icons instantly? Being my first one, I'm not overly sure about any of these things, so I'd love your thoughts.

Thanks!

Ben

EDIT: Added inventory window just for comparison's sake. I won't need the arrows at this size, because the player won't have that many items at one time, so I have replaced them with little screws.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Since verbcoins usually pop up centered over the cursor you want the middle icon (if there is one) to be the most commonly used, which is why I suggested an inventory toggle.  I don't think many people will have a problem with the way you've set it up, though.  One option is just to leave the center area empty so holding the button and releasing does nothing (or just walk).  Interestingly enough, most verbcoins don't even deal with inventory or options, they usually rely on function keys or icons on the screen for those (doesn't mean it's not a good idea!).  I'm a big fan of clever guis so don't be afraid to experiment a bit.

[Darth Mandarb]

Absolutely loving these images!  So simplistic, yet so full at the same time ... really good job.

As has been said the sky portions feel devoid of anything.

I did a quick paint-over (and forgive the sloppiness - it was done very quickly!)


- updated the sun (removed the black outline and made it more round)
- added some "distance" to the floating island in the background
- added some clouds and sky coloring
- removed the outlining anti-aliasing (just for easier editing ... but you can of course put it back in!)

This was done quickly ... just to give some ideas and I'm sure when/if you spend some time doing it yourself it'd look even better!  However if you like the stark sky areas by all means keep 'em!  I'd play this game either way

Hope it helps.

Edit - and I really LOVE the GUIs ... especially your latest one!

[ThreeOhFour]

ProgZmax - Thankyou for the advice. I'm not sure where to go from here - I think what I might do is add the verbcoin in how it is and see how it works while playing. If I find the options in the middle to be annoying or silly I'll adjust it to go up to the top with the inventory. I have to say, this has been (for me) one of the most educational threads I've started in the critic's lounge... you guys have been great.

Darth - Last night I did up some clouds for the backgrounds, adding 2 new colours to the palette, but I was not happy with them at all. The style, the colour, the shape, the position - it all felt wrong, and I was a bit disappointed with them. Needless to say this morning when I checked this thread and saw your example my jaw dropped - *that* is the style it needs, I thought straight away - those clouds are 100 times better than my feeble effort last night!

I've grabbed your two colours to replace mine, gone crazy on your style clouds, taken the outline away from the sun and also removed the outline from the distant island to give a better sense of distance.



I have to say how much happier I am with this version - I did hope to release this game on Sunday, and with all the changes and work left to do I may not get this done - who cares? An extra few days for a more polished product is, I feel, worth it.

Thankyou all very much for your time so far, and if you have more comments please don't hesitate to add them - I appreciate them all so much!

[Snarky]

That looks great, Ben!

Only point of criticism is the antialiasing on the distant island against the cloud. The color doesn't seem right, and is too close to the color of the sky. It makes it seem as if the cloud outline follow the outline of the island precisely, which is a very unfortunate effect.

[ThreeOhFour]

Thanks Snarky,

In that case I'll probably skip the antialiasing on the "island" - I see the effect you're talking about, and it should look fine without.

I'm also interested to hear your thoughts on the funcionality of the GUI I have in mind...

Cheers

[Darth Mandarb]

I'm so in love with this style that I got inspired to try something else!

First though ... the new clouds you put in look good!  However the effect is somewhat lost as they appear to be stacked on top of each other rather than giving a feeling of horizon/distance (if you know what I mean?).  It doesn't feel like they're getting farther away.

Anyway ... here is the new thing I was inspired to try and I think it might fit more with the style of the image:



It does add a few extra colors so I'm not sure you want to use something like this but I think it looks neat.

As for the GUIs ... I like the verb coin you created and I LOVE the inventory slider GUI.  The problem I see with "overlay" GUIs is that they look good when there's a solid color behind it but if you have backgrounds where that's not the case the GUIs can easily get lost and/or muddled in the background.

I usually like to add some kind of "outline" around overlay GUIs.  Something like this ...


(I also flipped it and put it on the bottom to show it overlapping the scenery to illustrate the point!)

I'm guessing that would be a GUI that pops up when you move your mouse to the bottom/top of the screen right?

[ThreeOhFour]

Darth - Thankyou for your further edits. I would just like to point out that my head hit the desk because I realise I am going to have to go back and do the clouds in the new style you showed. That's awesome! I was worried my clouds were overly DOTT and the game would look bland because of it. Sigh. Thankyou, sir.

About the GUI - the white outline really does look very nice! I think I'd like to give this a shot too. You are correct about the gui popping up by the way.

The whole idea of the GUI was that the slider moved the inventory, but as soon as I drew it I realised I wouldn't need it because there were more slots that the player would get items. It would be a nice thing to try in a game, but I am probably the worst scripter that has ever lived, so that'd probably be a job to give to someone else . I had fun with the concept of it though .

I also wish to get some comments on the tower after Andail's texture comment. I pixelled in some detail on it - does it look good, and does it match the style?



Cheers, again.

(You're probably sick of seeing the same backgrounds over again but if I show you anymore you won't see any new ones when you play the game!)

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Dig the texture work on the tower, the gradient is very stylish.  I should probably not point out where the sun is in relation to your tower, since you seem to be a perfectionist on par with myself, but at that angle I wouldn't imagine you'd see much light on the side facing us (it would be more in shadow) unless there is another sun somewhere, but these are things that no one who plays the game and finds the story engaging will care about, trust me!

As for the clouds, I really like darth's softer clouds with your image, since they compliment your design without distracting my interest from the foreground.  As far as details go, once you go the route of everything needing detail you're just going to get bogged down, so I would say the simpler style will suit these backgrounds well.  I don't really like the white transparent backdrop darth added to the gui though, it just clouds up a really nice background and in no way 'helps' the gui imo.  If you want it to pop up, one clean way to do it would be to have an inventory icon in a corner of the screen that when clicked (or mouse-overed) brings your inventory gui down so it isn't always in the way.  Games like the new Sam and Max episodes do this and it works rather well.

[ThreeOhFour]

Thanks, ProgZ, glad you like the texture work. The sun is something I have thought about and dismissed, simply for the reason that putting completely accurate lighting in would probably take me twice as long. I honestly don't feel that the gameplay time would warrant spending this long on the backgrounds. Hopefully people will find the story engaging - I am fairly satisfied that it will suit a short game nicely.

I agree about Darth's clouds - they are fantastic. With regards to the gui, I'll have to check out the new Sam & Max eps - I have a demo somewhere so I'll have to see how they did it.

What if I just used a plain white outline like in the example? I'm enjoying experimenting with all these things - and amazed by how much I've learnt this week.



I have loads of stuff to do - I want to repair my currently awful walkcycles, fix some character poses, redo hotspots, Darth's clouds.... Let's just say expect to see more from me soon, asking for more help or advice .

Cheers!

[Darth Mandarb]

Glad you like the clouds ...

I was going to suggest the 1-pixel white border around the GUI just like you did!  I was envisioning the GUI being not visible at all until you move the mouse to the top of the screen.  Though ProgZ's suggestion of the inventory icon is good too!  I just prefer nothing on the screen (but the cursor) until you need it.  This is, of course, just personal preference.

I just really think something is needed to "pop" the GUI away from the BG in some way.  Again, just personal preference.

As for second guessing (going back to update) your backgrounds ... I'd suggest not spending too much time on that!  I have that same curse where, as I progress I learn new techniques, I then want to go back and touch-up the older BGs with the new techniques.  It's the hardest part of BG design for me!

Another thing I would suggest (unless you really just want to get this done) would be totally bringing these BGs to life by small (and subtle) animations.  Something like this:



I spent VERY little time on this ... just wanted to show something.  I think it would be really cool to animate the clouds in paralax too (though this would be challenging to get it to repeat properly!).

The newer BG is nice too!  Few shading issues as ProgZ mentioned, but nothing I couldn't look easily past while playing the game.  The balcony looks a little odd ... does it go behind the wall?



I tweaked the shading a bit and the angle of the platform (I'm not even sure that's what you meant it to be but I didn't see any other space in the image that could be a walkable area!)

Anyway ... I want to play this game

[ThreeOhFour]

Darth,

Again, thanks for the edits! The shading looks good - I'll have to give that a shot and I love the little balloon animation...

With regards to how the tower works, the screen is facing the face edge of the building so the door will be like this:


As soon as I read "Animate the clouds" I had ridiculously wild fantasies of making the clouds characters with movement paths, built so they repeat and loop and move in parallax.... but I think I'll leave it for now. If I do things like that, this game will take me forever! It was meant to be a short one week break from the other big project, and it will probably take a bit longer than a week just to get it done how it is, so I don't won't to get any more ambitious than I have gotten.

For those interested, I've been working on my walkcycle animations (Logged on here for a quick break). I looked at mine, hated it, took one look at one of Lemmy and Binky's and, after several minutes of going "Stupid, stupid, stupid, you have no idea how a person looks when they walk!!!!" got to work on fix-o-fix.

It *will* be my best sideways walkcycle to date, I know it!

Thanks for the edits, again.

EDIT: Ok, now for that walkcycle I mentioned earlier...


2x

Any changes you can recommend (Please, for my sake, don't make them too big )

[Andail]

Bounce!

[ThreeOhFour]

Haha, ok.

I'm cautious of exagerrating it too much though and thereby making her look like she's hopping...

Thanks Andail.

PS: That was a quick response!

[vict0r]

Excellent style!
The only thing I would add is a slight upanddown motion on the characters head.