Background Blitz :: Workshop Edition :: Concluded

Started by loominous, Wed 14/05/2008 21:43:10

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loominous

Link to progress thread (posting the images n all here as well, to compensate for the absence of imagery.)

Here's the latest sketch.

With outlines:


Without outlines, to get a better view overall impression (details really mess that up):


Still just trying out ideas, and this one is lacking the nearby farm, but I managed to get the windmill in there in the center left, and I think I could fit the farm around that area as well. Or perhaps on the right side of the house.

The lack of real foreground is bothering me, but I think I'll just add some stuff on the right, that'll nicely overlap the currently empty yard as well, and add a few lines pointing towards the house (by having the foreground consist of some plant or something pointing towards the house).
Looking for a writer

Neil Dnuma

Hope this will be kept open for ~another week... workload's been too heavy (and weather too nice), so I haven't been able to put in much here, but am set to keep on working on it next week.

Thanks to all contributors so far, so many good ideas and thoughts here, keep it up!

loominous

Good to hear.

I've been completely swamped with work for the last two weeks, and have only managed to do these two sketches thus far (which I traded sleep for).

But beginning tomorrow, my spare time will return to normal, so prepare to be swamped with incrementally altered images of no interest!
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Misj'

Well guys, I didn't win the sprite-jam, and since I don't feel like starting a whole new (one time only) competition called: Workshop Follow-up: Character Design Edition, I have decided to postpone a workshop (read: interactive course where we all teach each other stuff) indefinitely...in other words: I'm probably never gonna do it.

As for my preparation (should I have won the sprite-jam), my plans were to create a true follow-up to Loominous' Background Blitz, so I created a few small character-descriptions concerning four people involved in the orphanage-scene, as well as a small prologue to the fictional story...I find it easier to create a world prior to it's inhabitants. You can see my own interpretation of these as my entry in the sprite-jam.

Anyway...I don't know yet what I will do with these small titbits.

On an additional note, while working on these characters, I decided to doodle down a tree that I would place in the foreground of the scene (if I had the time to participate). It may to be much, but I decided to share it with you.

<Click to enlage>

Misj'

Ps. Looking forward to your final interpretations of Loominous' script :)

Update:

It turns out, that I might actually participate ;)

Scrolling environment (final resulution: 1280x480). The room will scroll when the player is at the center of the bridge. This enhances the perspective (the bridge is 1-point, straight on, left side and right side are both 2-point perspectives, but in the oposite direction)

Rough sketch to test perspective


Putting the environment toghether


Inking (click to enlarge)


next step: colouring (the step that I find most difficult since I'm more trained in black-and-white, so hopefully I'll manage to get something reasonably close to what I have in my mind)



evenwolf

This is the coolest competition/activity I've ever seen.  This is basically the job of an art director, interpreting the script and I love it.   Well done.

If possible, I may try to catch up with some sketches and participate.




Larger Res

---new post---

OK, I took 15 minutes to make my first concept drawing.   The whole time I was keeping loominous's advice in mind of maintaining an intriguing silhouette.   I just played around with shapes & unfortunately couldn't print off my source material.  So I was working blindly, and forgetting elements I wanted to include.  This sketch is definitely not final.  I did go Victorian which was the initial plan. But the biggest change I would make is the overhead camera angle- make it lower to give the orphanage a more ominous tone.   This will fix the elongated trapezoidness to the design overall.   The side door also draws too much focus and trivializes the orphanage.     But I did come up with one atmospheric detail I like, which is to have a playset that sinks away from the house, almost in danger of slipping away and into the creek.

The weird trellis... I had something in mind with that and then I experimented into making it an archway/ flagpole.   I don't think I like it but I may try something similar on the next sketch.   



In the next sketch the goal will be to:

1. Remodel.
2. Fix the angle.
3.  Add a bay window which draws the player's focus.
"I drink a thousand shipwrecks.'"

loominous

Updated

(I think posting the current update in your bump post might make the thread more exciting, so here it is:)

Continued with the last sketch:



800xsomething


Added more foreground (don't ask me what that close thing to the right is - have no idea), which adds a few layers to give it more depth and lines, where the bottom part is leaning / to compensate for the heavy  lean of the top (which the fence on the right also helps out with). The balance is still pretty messed up, and I'm once again
paying the price for sloppy pre-work by now having to try to fix things in this less flexible state.

There are many other issues, such as readability of the bridge (which is to the right beneath the sign post thingy, the stairway on the right side of the house, leading downwards, and other things.

Oh yea, I also flipped it horizontally, which is when I discovered the heavy  lines of the upper part. Flipping it horizontally n vertically is a great way to spot these things, and also to see the image in a new light. In this case I ended up liking it more like this, but I might go back.

I've focused the light more on the right side of the house, to draw more attention to the center of the image, and kept the left in shadow, which also creates a nice silhouette against the sky. The bright sky is an annoying problem, as it creates strong contrast everywhere something silhouettes against it, which pulls focus. This could be countered by blocking it out with trees n stuff, but I want a pretty open feel, which that would rob. So I've limited the blocking trees to the sides to lower the contrast in those areas, and also frame the subject.

All in all, the melancholy feel is pretty much non existent at this point, much due to my weakness for strong sunlight, but I'm hoping it can be fixed with some details n colour).

I added a small character to help with the scaling, which is another issue, particularly with the fence and sign post.

-

evenwolf:

Great to see you join in, and I really like the design of your building.

I think the chimneys may be unnecessarily alike, and creates rather unexciting symmetry:

   II               II
=II=/''''''''''=II==   
|                         

which is only broken up by the tower (which I didn't include in the above ascii scribble)

I like your idea of lowering the angle. While high angles give a nice overview, they do distance and detach the viewer from the environment.

-

Misj:

Great to see you join in as well, particularly with a contrasting cartoony style.

I hate giving critique regarding stuff like perspective, but I think it may be a bit too off to work, unless I have misjudged the elements:



So it's basically the scaling of the bridge, and the road as it comes towards us.

Another thing small thing is that I think it could benefit from having one of the trees reach above the upper cropping line. As it is, all objects, even the cloud reach pretty much the same vertical point, and pushing for instance the middle tree above the line would help it I think.

-

Anyway, great to see these new entries, and don't hesitate to give comments or critique, even though we're still in the experimental stages, where the creators may be aware of many flaws in their work.
Looking for a writer

Theme

very beautiful bg loominous  :o
Sorry, I had some school stuff to do, but now I think I might be able to finish in time

updated

o/

Andail

Nice progress, Loomy, but right now there's a jumble of shapes and highlights, giving a slightly disorderly impression. Maybe it will sort itself out once you colour it.

Composition-wise, I think there's simply too much in the picture right now, and the wavy shapes that are repeated here and there distract the eye a bit.

Also, you have a few lines/objects that meet somewhat awkwardly; the top of the swing-stand ends just where the balcony begins, making it look like the latter rests upon the former. Similarly, the sign blends with the tree behind it, as they have similar shapes.

These are of course minor issues, and all in all it's a beautiful piece with lots of atmosphere.

loominous

Quote from: Andail on Sat 28/06/2008 12:47:50
Nice progress, Loomy, but right now there's a jumble of shapes and highlights, giving a slightly disorderly impression. Maybe it will sort itself out once you colour it.

Composition-wise, I think there's simply too much in the picture right now, and the wavy shapes that are repeated here and there distract the eye a bit.

Also, you have a few lines/objects that meet somewhat awkwardly; the top of the swing-stand ends just where the balcony begins, making it look like the latter rests upon the former. Similarly, the sign blends with the tree behind it, as they have similar shapes.

These are of course minor issues, and all in all it's a beautiful piece with lots of atmosphere.


I agree with you on pretty much everything - particularly the disorderly impression. Thing is, I don't really know how to fix it, as there are many competing interests.

I) I want a lots of objects.
II) I want focus

III) I don't want high contrast or dark tones at the building.
IV) I want the building to stand out and be the center of attention

V) I want an open feel
VI) I want to block out the bright sky

(VII) I want depth)
(VIII) I want a short walking distance and minor character scaling)

As you say, perhaps colouring will sort it out to an extent, as it would separate the areas, but I don't really like depending on colour for readability. Values should suffice.

Particularly my wish to keep the house in low contrast and mid values has made it really hard to get some focus going. It can easily be fixed, but then my other intentions will get compromised. That is, given the solutions I've come up with thus far.

Feel free to give it a paint over if you have a solution that might not conflict with the interests given above.

(Good to see some feedback, been pretty quiet on that front so far)

Edit:

Oh, and my intention style wise is to have it look like something between an old photo (which blows out the sky) and something Bill Tillery.

Missed those tangents you mentioned (will fix).
Looking for a writer

loominous

Forgot about these when I commented:

Exsecratus:

Quote from: Exsecratus on Fri 16/05/2008 21:04:27
update (06/27):


I really like the mood that the back light provides, particularly by the windmill which looks great. You mentioned that you were gonna alter it, but I think the current setup works quite well, with a few alterations that would light up the building more, if only its edges. Atm the lighting does pull the focus towards the windmill, due to the high contrast, so the cloud placement might not be ideal in that respect, which is probably what you were referring to when you said you were gonna change it.

-

Neil:

Quote from: Neil Dnuma on Mon 19/05/2008 14:22:54



I love the style, and the design of everything is just great (the sign is rather odd looking atm though, but it's perhaps just a placeholder).

-

Both:

There are a few things that I think these have in common that could be the subject of some testing:

Atm the landscapes are quite flat, and you basically have a horizon line at top of which the windmill resides, and nothing really beyond them. I'm personally very fond of flat landscapes, but a few larger bumps in the landscape (coupled with some foliage) should create some more depth and interest. It also clutters the image, so I'm not saying it's a safe bet.

The viewing angle is quite high in both (the viewer is at the height of the second floor in both (just by looking at the point at which the horizon cuts the building)), and it's also quite distant. I think pushing the camera closer n lower would create more connection to the environment, instead of a view similar to looking at an area through binoculars - very detached that is. A closer camera also creates more connection with the player character, which becomes more than a few moving pixels (my image suffers from this as well).

Another thing that a lower camera provides is foreground (which they both sort of lack), which becomes easier to come up with when you're closer to the ground.

Just a few thoughts.
Looking for a writer

Misj'

Updated with inking

Quote from: loominous on Thu 26/06/2008 04:14:30
Great to see you join in as well, particularly with a contrasting cartoony style.
Hopefully I'll have time to finish it.

Quote
I hate giving critique regarding stuff like perspective, but I think it may be a bit too off to work, unless I have misjudged the elements:

So it's basically the scaling of the bridge, and the road as it comes towards us.
Yeah, as you can see in de perspective-sketch the road originally went in a different direction, but once I decided to attach te sign a a branch, I had to reroute the road...I hoped I could get away with it. Anyway, I've changed the road to be closer to the correct perspective in the latest update.

On a side-note, you've made the character a little too small when standing at the door. The main character would be approximately 1:83m, however, I wanted to give the house an older - more medieval - origin, back to a time when the average hight was smaller (approximately 1:60m)...so I've drawn the door to have an approximate hight of 1:70m (see image below).

QuoteAnother thing small thing is that I think it could benefit from having one of the trees reach above the upper cropping line.
I've adapted the three on the outside to make them bigger (this was also required by the correction of the road). I wanted to keep the middle area quite 'open', to make the outside areas more claustrophobic (I will have to reflect this in the colouring, and have no idea how to implement that just yet, but the borders will probably become darker (closer to black, and more monotonous) than the inner area). As you can see in the image below, object exceed both the upper and the lower border of the image now.

Ok...it's time for some self-critique:


There is one major design-flaw in this image (encircled in green): overlapping lines. It's difficult to make out the window-border due to the overlapping swing-rope. This makes the drawing difficult to read, and is reason enough to redesign the right area of the image (if this were a real game-, comic-, or animation-background I would be very much urged to do so...but as it is, I just don't have the time, and hope that in the final - coloured - version it will work).

Also, the perspective of the farm in the back is obviously way off...I won't change that though because it looks better this way. And sometimes aesthetics is more important than correctness.

Furthermore, I might add a (black) foreground layer in post-production containing some weeds, branches, etc in black. I'll see about that when I have time.

Finally, I've added Solomon in various scaling sizes to give an impression of character-scaling throughout the image. He would probably never be as big as the version on the left, because by this time I would have changed rooms (to the scary forest area).

Daniel Thomas

Nice too see activity here again, hopefully Ill have some freetime now.

So far:

Not that far into it, but mainly working with composition and trying to get it working.
Right now Im thinking of extending the format to widescreen, the house just makes this format boring right now and is almost the same kind of square. Im also thinking of bringing the camera closer to the house, and also moving up the house as the walking area is pretty low now, with all the objects - I think it feels uncomfortable and I think it should be brought up to at least a third.

Haven't gone through the posted work yet, but will try to do that to soon.
Check out The Journey of Iesir Demo | Freelance artist, check out my Portfolio

evenwolf

That is bloody brilliant!   

Ive got new sketches, Ill update them here tomorrow.
"I drink a thousand shipwrecks.'"

loominous

Link to progress thread





This is the latest composition I've tried, and I think it's getting close to something I'm happy with. I've basically pulled the mid ground closer to the camera to become something of a new foreground, and ditched the old one. The bridge is now a wooden bridge, that is more easily read than the former stone one, and also produces less contrast which steals less focus from the house. In addition, it allowed me to quite easily add a stream beneath it, something that the other solutions (of which there have been many didn't provide. And even better, the sign is now close enough to be actually readable.

Other benefits: The sign now frames a bigger portion of the far background (where the windmill can be seen (a very messy area atm)), the fence now goes around the yard, forming a nice big curve:



which a) leads the viewer around the bottom part of the image up towards the house and b) as it's slanting /, it compensates for the  lean of the top part of the image.

The downside is that there's now a pretty large distance to the house from the bridge, which isn't ideal. Also, atm, there's a perspective issue at the bridge, where we're pretty high above the character height, which isn't ideal either. It can be fixed by lowering the camera, which I'm considering.

Some other things: I but the right side garden area in shadow to detract attention and pushed the swingset further back, to open up the yard and increase readability. The swingset has been a problem ever since I put it in.
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Neil Dnuma

So good to see this being alive and well.

I haven't updated yet, but am working on it.

Quote from: Loominous
(the sign is rather odd looking atm though, but it's perhaps just a placeholder).
(Yes it is).

Quote from: Loominous
Atm the landscapes are quite flat, and you basically have a horizon line at top of which the windmill resides, and nothing really beyond them. I'm personally very fond of flat landscapes, but a few larger bumps in the landscape (coupled with some foliage) should create some more depth and interest. It also clutters the image, so I'm not saying it's a safe bet.
Am working on the landscape. I'll be putting some details into them; some foliage, but also fields around the farm. There's also a hint of the stream in the back there, I'll try to do something with that. Also, the sky seems to take too much space atm, but I didn't throw any of the furthest landscape in, some extra hills etc. And no clouds.

Quote from: Loominous
The viewing angle is quite high in both (the viewer is at the height of the second floor in both (just by looking at the point at which the horizon cuts the building)), and it's also quite distant. I think pushing the camera closer n lower would create more connection to the environment, instead of a view similar to looking at an area through binoculars - very detached that is. A closer camera also creates more connection with the player character, which becomes more than a few moving pixels (my image suffers from this as well).

Another thing that a lower camera provides is foreground (which they both sort of lack), which becomes easier to come up with when you're closer to the ground.
This is an interesting point. I definitely prefer the eye-level camera angle for many things, to improve immersion and get more depth; "regular" images, film/television etc. The thing here, with the little adventure game creating experience I've had, slightly higher angles have helped the functionality of the backgrounds. The walkable areas get bigger vertically, thus giving more "air" to the clickable objects and exits, and in general a more smooth experience for the player. Also you can get away with much less scaling of the protagonist character. Foreground objects can also interfere if not balanced very carefully.

A lot of games, eg. Sierra operate with high angles most of the time.

I agree 100% on the distance though, and will move a bit closer.

----

Some feedback:
@Loominous
This looks very appealing, and has superb mood. I'm glad you ditched the old foreground, as I think there is enough going on in the front now. Fantastic building. Also, clever framing of the windmill. Where is the farm gonna be? The fence in the middle looks a bit dangerous for small kids...

@Misj
It looks very messy now, obviously since no values have been added. I personally think the bridge is a tad on the huge side, and will, along with the dominant tree, obstruct most of the character as he passes. Perhaps a taller tree would open it up more? Very interesting style nontheless.

@Zyndikate
Very good as usual, and i like the interaction of the surrounding lines. I wouldn't mind opening it up a bit in the upper right area though, as it might feel a bit claustrophobic. To quote our friend mr. Tiller:
Quote from: Bill TillerIt is good to have a balance or empty areas and busy areas, it gives the viewer a place to rest their eyes.
(Link) It would also give some breathing space for the farm+windmill.

Misj'

Zyndikate

In your latest sketch I have the feeling that the house became a little too complex. I really liked your earlier sketches, but have the feeling that in this sketch you wanted too much. This makes the house a little difficult to read. Not in a sense that I can't make each of the seperate pieces out, because I can, but I can't see which part of the design is most important. Comparted to you earlier sketches the house - to me - feels like it's a step backwards (I'm not too happy with my interpreation of the house and consider it way to simplified...so that's the opposite side of the spectrum).

Loominous

Small question: which window does the girl sit at?

Neil & Exsecratus
I like the fact that you can clearly see how a personal style can affect the way a script is interpreted. The one thing that bothers me is that both of you (and I) had a problem with the 'open' background. In a way I prefer the open background to the solution used by both Loominous and Zyndikate (they both more or less closed it up by confining the distance the player can look...simply adding trees in front of it). Somehow that doesn't feel right to me...but maybe it's the way to go. I'm not sure yet.

You've already discovered that I like to react to people's comments, so...

Quote from: Neil Dnuma on Tue 01/07/2008 04:20:37
@Misj
It looks very messy now, obviously since no values have been added. I personally think the bridge is a tad on the huge side, and will, along with the dominant tree, obstruct most of the character as he passes. Perhaps a taller tree would open it up more? Very interesting style nontheless.

Yeah, that's a general disadvantage when using a traditional comic-book approach: the line-art looks messy since you don't have the values that the person who drew it has in his or her mind. In many cases even the pure black isn't inked to save ink. If I were to have someone else colour it, I would have indicated these areas, but as it is, I have them in my mind and not op paper.

As for the bridge and the tree, since they are always at the border of the image (either at the right before scolling, or at the left after scrolling) the obstruction should not be that much of a problem...at least not in my mind. Also, it should be added, that in order to be able to draw it, I've created a bit more of a story than provided by Loominous. In my mind a new chapter starts at this point of the story, and this screen would then be the introduction to the location; leading from the end of the previous chapter (scary forrest - left side of the image) to the beginning of this chapter (finding your sister (girl with the sock puppet) in the orphanage - right side of the image). With this in mind I set up the background, and - if I manage to colour it the way I have it in my mind - the obstructing three and bridge would accent this border between the previous chapter and the next.

I just hope that I'll have time to colour it before the contest ends, because I'll be in Ireland for the next weeks. But then again, I'll be taking a few pencils and a lot of paper with me, so maybe I'll get inspired by some of the Irish scenery.

-----------------------

Maybe I should use my time in Ireland to redesign the whole thing. I like the overall composition where this scrolling background is a leap from chapter 1 to chapter 2...but based on the analysation of the work of you guys I'm just not happy with several of the components (the house, the lack of background, the overlapping lines on the right, and the fact that my brother dislikes a bride with staircases ;) ). I should be able to make it all a lot more interesting (and I have some ideas how to do it thanks to you guys).

Loominous...it takes up a lot of time, but I find this workshop edition extremely interesting :)

Andail

Zyndikate; very nice. Excellent values, nice shapes, brilliant composition.

Loomy: Needless to say, a vast improvement. The image really needed a way into it, and I was just gonna suggest that you added a path or bridge or something in the foreground, instead of that impenetrable layer of blackness.
I think the issue with your former compositon was the following:
It was too layered, without any lines or shapes moving into the picture, connecting the various layers. It was like a parallax-scrolled platform shooter; various objects lined up beside each other in neat layers. Nothing linked them together.

I think with your current use of overlapping you've created a much more harmonic piece.

Neil Dnuma

Quote from: Misj' on Tue 01/07/2008 11:04:36
Neil & Exsecratus
I like the fact that you can clearly see how a personal style can affect the way a script is interpreted. The one thing that bothers me is that both of you (and I) had a problem with the 'open' background. In a way I prefer the open background to the solution used by both Loominous and Zyndikate (they both more or less closed it up by confining the distance the player can look...simply adding trees in front of it). Somehow that doesn't feel right to me...but maybe it's the way to go. I'm not sure yet.
No, I agree. I like to have some space too :)

I wasn't thinking of the scrolling mechanism you wrote about, but can see how that would work. Am looking forward to seeing your BG with values!

update

A few changes, a closer and slightly lower camera angle.

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