Background Blitz :: Workshop Edition :: Concluded

Started by loominous, Wed 14/05/2008 21:43:10

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Misj'

Quote from: loominous on Mon 01/09/2008 14:36:41
It would probably only be zyndikate, miez or I who'd host it anyway. But for all I know, having it as a separate longer activity might work better, so it could be worth a shot.

Miez or Misj'? - Of even though we have a lot more in common than one would expect (we live in the same city, his last name is more or less the village where I lived most of my life, his first name and mine are very similar, he has less hair on his head (based on the image on his website), but I'm certainly getting there...it's almost like he's my alter ego) we are not the same person. ;)

Apart form that...concerning the workshop. Initally I didn't think that I would have time to join in, so I was one of the late participants (and possibly one of the reasons why we're running late on schedule). But in the end I did join when I had some time to share...a few hours on a few days. Ok...I spend more then 12 hours total on the background, but as you can see I have three itterations, where the final version is the best of them (at least in my opinion). In a conventional Blitz I wouldn't have had that possibility. I wouldn't have been able to discuss the designs with fellow participants. It wouldn't be like working with a team to produce the best results.

There was one thing that I trully missed though, and that was, that the people who didn't participate in producing a background for some reason seemed to think that could also not comment. I mean: I would have loved to have any one person in this community tear my design down (and then I would be angry and all defencive and stuff, but that's all part of the game ;) ). Even if you didn't have time to produce something yourself, it would have been nice if you had been part of this. Sure...maybe some of the comments made thoughout the workshop are more technical. But everyone could have told me that the black tree in the foreground layer was to repetative in it's top-screen design in my previous version (thank's Neil)...you didn't have to be a participant to see that. And even though I think that my background turned out quite nice and interesting, I think it could have become even better had the (non-participating) community pushed me a little more.

As for the 'style'...the style that I used was hand-drawn but looked nothing like Disney (fortunately). But even so, I feel that most competitions on this forum are a lot more limited in style than this one. I mean...based on the original description pixel art was very much allowed (and it would have been nice to see it). Most of the animation competitions won't allow me to use classical cell animation, because I'm restricted to use a sprite that doesn't fit within hand drawn animation. Many sprite jams have rules that won't allow me to use pen and paper as a basis and almost seem to 'demand' pixel art. Well, that's not my cup of tea, so I won't join...but I won't complain about it either. In this Blitz I had a chance to use my preferred medium, but I didn't see a restriction for people using different styles and different media. So I personally think that's a limitation of people's imagination rather than that of the rules.

-- edit                                                                                                                       --
-- I wrote the next part before I saw that Andail started a new conventional Blitz --
-- It's mutany I tell you...mutany                                                                              --

You know what...should I win (it's always nice to dream ;) ), then my next Blitz will be a somewhat conventional one where people are encouraged to explore styles. You wanna go all Patapon on me? - Fine. You wanna go Super Paper Mario? - That's also great. You wanna use 5x5px blocks for the background with flat high-res cut-out images from magazines for the props? - If you can make it work, you can win. You wanna enter with multiple entries in different styles? - Make it so. But what wouldn't make you win is using a (or your) standard style. That way no one can complain that the demanded style didn´t fit their wishes (and at the same time we should get some interesting results).

Misj´

loominous

Yea, I always get your names mixed up.

I also think it was a shame that we didn't have more outside (constructive) comments. Andail popped in and helped me fix my composition at one point, but that was pretty much it, as far as I can recall.

Not sure how that could be fixed, as I think that the reasons are probably similar to the low participance: not enough energy/time to participate, or slight intimidation.

I think one reason why we didn't see any pixel art - one I brought up in a recent post - is that people for some reason think that stuff like sketches and composition belong to the fancy sphere of painting, and that pixel art is just a matter of grabbing a pixel tool n getting to it. Wonder how much better pixel art we'd see if this erroneous and destructive notion would vanish.

QuoteMost of the animation competitions won't allow me to use classical cell animation, because I'm restricted to use a sprite that doesn't fit within hand drawn animation. Many sprite jams have rules that won't allow me to use pen and paper as a basis and almost seem to 'demand' pixel art.

Ugh, don't get me started on the discriminating practices of the sprite jam.

Which makes it even more depressing reading that Andail has limited the resolution to 320x200 for the 'standard edition', in what I guess is an attempt to pander to the disgruntled pixel crowd. Wonder if these practices will ever leave these forums.
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BOYD1981

Quote from: loominous on Mon 01/09/2008 22:38:02
Ugh, don't get me started on the discriminating practices of the sprite jam.

Which makes it even more depressing reading that Andail has limited the resolution to 320x200 for the 'standard edition', in what I guess is an attempt to pander to the disgruntled pixel crowd. Wonder if these practices will ever leave these forums.

dude, stop being a dick about anything that isn't hi-res, seriously.
if you can't do lo-res art then don't take part, not everybody is as good at drawing hi-res stuff as you are so get off your damn high horse.

Limey Lizard, Waste Wizard!
01101101011000010110010001100101001000000111100101101111011101010010000001101100011011110110111101101011

IndieBoy

Can we just finish this competition already? This should of been sorted out months ago. However I don't think this is the place to start a discussion of the competitions/activities in the AGS forums. The issue has been raised and is getting resolved, so can we all just carry on with the competitions/activities in a reasonable manner.
Quote from: Calin Elephantsittingonface on Tue 08/02/2011 09:00:55
The only person in favour of the mobs seems to be IndieBoy.. but he's scottish so we dont listen to him anyway.

space boy

Quote from: loominous on Mon 01/09/2008 22:38:02
Ugh, don't get me started on the discriminating practices of the sprite jam.

Which makes it even more depressing reading that Andail has limited the resolution to 320x200 for the 'standard edition', in what I guess is an attempt to pander to the disgruntled pixel crowd. Wonder if these practices will ever leave these forums.

Are you gonna moan about the freemasons and jews taking over the forum in your next post? Don't be so paranoid.

Snarky

All this hostility is so pointless and unnecessary! (The only flaming that would be appropriate here is of Indieboy, for writing "should of".  >:( )

Loominous surely has a point that there's no reason why you can't go through a process like this for pixel art. But on the other hand, why complain about others setting different rules from what you would like? Isn't that the point, that each round you get different people with different ideas for the competition?

Let's just set a final deadline (I suggest the end of this week), vote, and move on.

Misj'

Guys, last time I checked I was the one who brought up the impossibility to do high-res in most competitions (in a reaction to the idea that no low-res was possible in this competition), not Loominous. So if someone has to be blamed, please blame me.

loominous

Misj:

Quote from: Misj' on Tue 02/09/2008 00:32:55
Guys, last time I checked I was the one who brought up the impossibility to do high-res in most competitions (in a reaction to the idea that no low-res was possible in this competition), not Loominous. So if someone has to be blamed, please blame me.

Heh, don't worry, some of them are just here to deliver a few punches -- it has nothing to do with you - it's just something that they do.

But it's really quite amazing. I take issue with a clearly biased practice -- just ask yourself when it was that you last saw the rule: "no lo-res entries allowed" -- and I'm portrayed as the intolerant guy. The way that some of you are able to spin this would leave Karl Rove teary-eyed.


Anyway, I thought I'd post a few things that never got posted:

Here's a colour sketch of misj's entry:



I didn't post it as I know that he prefers vivid colours, and didn't want to push my monochrome preferences, but it might be fun to see here at the end.

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This was part of a colour theory mini tutorial that never got finished. This one is meant to show why the sunlight gets more red in the mornings, and almost white at noon, as the distance it has to travel through the atmosphere varies during the day.

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A grading test for Execratus' background. Not sure why I didn't post it - guess I wasn't happy with the look.

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And lastly the first logo idea I had for the last stage, which shows in a rather nifty way how those old disney backgrounds were created.

That's pretty much I all I found.

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Snarky:

I believe Andail will close it down tomorrow, 'least that what he said earlier. Bit of a crude ending, but I guess it's due.
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space boy

Quote from: loominous on Tue 02/09/2008 03:11:17
But it's really quite amazing. I take issue with a clearly biased practice -- just ask yourself when it was that you last saw the rule: "no lo-res entries allowed" -- and I'm portrayed as the intolerant guy. The way that some of you are able to spin this would leave Karl Rove teary-eyed.

You're right, the rules tend to encourage low-res entries. That doesnt mean hi-res is excluded completely. Many people on here are just into the retro-look. It's a different person setting the rules each time, if you're unhappy with this low-res trend then all it takes is a post in a competition thread, suggesting to allow a higher resolution in the next compo, or just win a competition and set the rules you want. But you're taking this way out of proportion. It's not some kind of organized conspiracy to discriminate hi-res so stop acting like the whole forum is against you, you whiny bighead.

Andail

Quote
Which makes it even more depressing reading that Andail has limited the resolution to 320x200 for the 'standard edition', in what I guess is an attempt to pander to the disgruntled pixel crowd. Wonder if these practices will ever leave these forums.

Oh come on, there are restrictions in many activities, it's a way to add variation to them and make people try on techniques they might not be familiar with, all in the name of practice. We're here to practice after all, not just produce excellent art.

Again, I have to say the results from this workshop are astounding, but there's no need to bear grudge towards other activities that differ in outlines or deal with other techniques.

We have to accommodate for all sorts of artists; lo-res and hi-res, but we don't have to do it each time, always. There's room for both.

Thank you and please move on now.

EDIT:
Re-opened to allow for participants, and only participants, to actually publish their results.

loominous

Might as well do a couple of more colour versions while it's still open:



I like it better than the last, but the melancholy sure isn't there.
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Miez

Quote from: Misj' on Mon 01/09/2008 21:25:41
Miez or Misj'? - Of even though we have a lot more in common than one would expect (we live in the same city, his last name is more or less the village where I lived most of my life, his first name and mine are very similar, he has less hair on his head (based on the image on his website), but I'm certainly getting there...it's almost like he's my alter ego) we are not the same person. ;)

<off topic> Dude really? That's freaking weird... ;D

By the way Loominous - that's a f*cking gorgeous BG...

gypsysnail

Loominous!!! I second Miez's swearing compliments!!! That is just bloody brillant! It is far by my favourite! All your backgrounds are my favourite Loominous - you have the most spectacular style! I have seen you develop your style since I first joined :). It is good you are still going with your artwork, dont stop ever.

EDIT: Also wanted to ask you, Loominous, is your work done in photoshop in many layers? Also do you use a tablet too?
Believe in afterlife! It's true in a metamorphical way ;)
Ken & Roberta - my inspiration!! 20 years.
U are what you love doing and passionate about - keep up what you love most.

loominous

Thanks for the comments! (though I fear Andail might be somewhat annoyed, as he explicitly re-opened it only to allow the participants to post their final versions)

Quote from: gypsysnail on Thu 18/09/2008 18:05:09
EDIT: Also wanted to ask you, Loominous, is your work done in photoshop in many layers?

I try to keep the numbers of layers to a minimum, but due to the way I colourize they tend to pile up. The benefit of having few layers is that it allows you to work more flexibly, as you can tinker with the whole image without constantly having to change to the appropriate layers. I do seperate stuff like foreground elements though, to allow quick compositional changes, and if I add an object, I keep it on a seperate layer until I decide whether I should keep it or not.

Here's the photoshop (cs3) file, heavily resized (original is about 3000x2000), if you wanna take a look.(about 800kb)

I'm afraid it's quite messy.

QuoteAlso do you use a tablet too?

Yep. Can't imagine working without one.
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Misj'

Quote from: loominous on Thu 18/09/2008 20:41:52
Thanks for the comments! (though I fear Andail might be somewhat annoyed, as he explicitly re-opened it only to allow the participants to post their final versions)

Even though there are things that I'm unhappy with (the first thing that comes to mind is the water that just doesn't look watery, and I never added any text to the sign), the version I posted will be my final entry in this workshop.

Oh...and it was nice to see what the effect of a different interpretation of the colouring is to the feel of the lineart.

Hope to see the final versions of the other participants, and having that person running another workshop.

As a side-note to that winner (my apologies to the administrators for cluttering the thread with this...especially since it might belong in the 'Suggestions for competitions and activities' thread), my personal vision of the workshop would be a followed:


Unlike the competitions, the goal of the workshop is to create a learning environment, and to share ideas, methods, etc. The original workshop was on creating an outdoors background. Nevertheless, the workshops do not concern the creation of backgrounds only, but may take a look at other aspects involved in the development of adventure games. Think of character design, converting a character style sheet into a functional sprite, animation, colouring (from line-art), music, dialogue, puzzles, story development, etc. While there is an overlap between regular competitions and the workshops, the value of the workshop lies on its focus on the process rather than on 'presenting the result'. Consequently, the turn-over rate of the workshop is lower. Nevertheless, it's best to have only a single workshop at a time. A winner is decided, and he can invite someone (possibly, but not necessary, a participant) to present a workshop on a given subject. If within a month after the election no new workshop is started, anyone is free to start one on his own. Each workshop should concern an aspect of adventure making, that is tackled from the point of a (fictional and limited) story (like the script in Loominous' original workshop). This story does not have to be the same for all workshops.


gypsysnail

Hey Loominous, thanks for the excellent file!!! I took a look at the layers and I reckon u did it all so well and without so many layers! I was amazed at how you managed to combine the pale greenish sky with the house in one layer. I would imagine you used a lasso tool to colour/fill/draw different parts in that one layer, am I right?

Also below is a grabbed a print screen of something in your file to ask you a question. the subgroup of layers include a two linked part in each layer, a white box and a transparent box (obviously there is a small image within the transparent box) - why is it linked and what do the two boxes linked together in that layer mean?
Believe in afterlife! It's true in a metamorphical way ;)
Ken & Roberta - my inspiration!! 20 years.
U are what you love doing and passionate about - keep up what you love most.

loominous

Most likely final version, though there are still things to refine:



Some cleanup and colour treatment, and also added a couple of toys.

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Regarding voting:

Since Andail has separated the editions, I'm not sure if voting is neccessary, as it would basically be us patting eachother on the back.

Any thoughts?

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Quote from: gypsysnail on Fri 19/09/2008 02:14:18
Also below is a grabbed a print screen of something in your file to ask you a question. the subgroup of layers include a two linked part in each layer, a white box and a transparent box (obviously there is a small image within the transparent box) - why is it linked and what do the two boxes linked together in that layer mean?


Those boxes are 'Layer Masks', which allow you to mask out regions that you want to dissapear, or fade out, but without actually deleting anything, as the layer data is still intact.

Needless to say, they're a great tool, and allows you to experiment quickly and freely.

They work in the same way as 'alpha channels', in case you're familiar with those, where white regions mean full opacity, and black full transparency, and greys everything between.

Coupled with 'Adjustment Layers', you get enormous flexibility regarding values/colours as well.

'Adjustment Layers' affect the image in the same way as ordinary effects do, such as Brightness/Contrast, Levels, etc, but instead of applying the effects to a single layer as you ordinary would, you add the effect to the image by creating a special layer which then affects the layers. The benefit here, like in the case of 'Layer Masks', is that you're not doing anything to the affected layers - they remain intact - so you can turn off the effects or change the settings at any point.

Adjustment layers come with a layer mask already attached, and the layer mask works in the same way as with layers - darkening regions mean that the effect fades out in those areas, and vice versa.

Here's a gif anim hopefully explaining it:



Hope that explains it - just ask if
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Neil Dnuma

This will have to serve as my final version. I guess an extension isn't possible? A couple of months only?  :P


As for voting and stuff, I don't care, but will do if it's wanted.

Daniel Thomas

Yea, I think no voting is fine - since its purpose was mostly to choose the next person to take over the blitz as in old traditional BG blitz fashion.

My last will be my final for now, I havent gotten time to work on it since new school and moving etc.

But I liked it, regardless of what others say.
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loominous

Seems like we've reached the end of the first workshop edition then.

A big thanks to all participants and contributors, and I hope we'll see another (though shorter) round some day - perhaps on writing, animation or character design.

(If any of the moderators feels like cleaning up some of the less constructive posts in the last page or two, that would be very appreciated).
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