Nocturnal Illusion (18+)

[Peder 🚀]

Hey all..

As ive seen some more games here with sexual content I thought of making a fan game of a game called Nocturnal Illusion.



The original game is a first person game without point & click but, I would like to make a fan game that is more of a point & click game. (As the interface and such in the original is quite annoying..)
I was also thinking that maybe making it less sexual than it originally is (though if the crowd wants it I would definatly think of keeping it as sexual as the original).
I like how the backstory goes which is the reason I even thought of making a fan game.
Besides it seems most of you guys are some dirty pigs and like sexual games .

Anyways here is some info of the game etc if you havent heard of it before:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nocturnal_Illusion
http://gigabowserg.tripod.com/index.html

And the reason for me to look it up again some music: (I love the music).
http://gigabowserg.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/lyric.mid

Give your opinion!
Is it worthy a fan game?
Is it something you guys (even girls) would like to see made?
Or even just discuss the(these) game(s)!

Thanks,
PJ.

[InCreator]

There was a period in my life when I was quite addicted to old Hentai adventure games, some have -- despite totally random sex and "look"-"think"-"look" boring clickfest -- actually quite cool stories, like Three sisters' story for example. And bad graphics is rare to see.

I suggest to make this only if you're sure to succeed at what makes those old games good: an interesting, yet romantic fantasy story. That's only reason I would play one.

I'm actually not against sexual content neither, if it's not downright absurd and  horrid in some way.

[Peder 🚀]

Exactly, what I hate with this game is all the clicking, where a point & click system would of been much better!
Which is kinda what I meant with a fan game, try and keep it as close to the original itself but make it with a point & click system etc.

[jetxl]

Is this tread about porn games in general or are you just asking my permission to make a porn game?

[Peder 🚀]

Hehe .

I wouldent really say PORN games.....
As these games are more than just having sex with characters....

I really like the story of Nocturnal Illusion and that is why I thought of making a fan game of it (with a point & click system to make it easier and better to play!).

[Radiant]

As these games are more than just having sex with characters....

Yes, really. I play them for the articles, honest.

[LimpingFish]

Well, y'see, the thing about hentai games is that, for the most part, their biggest selling point is their pornographic content. Which is fine, if that's what you bought/play the game for. When you remove that, you're left with the job of finding something else to drive the story forward. In Nocturnal Illusions, the impetus for the player to click through the various back-stories surrounding the various female characters, is the prospect of a sexual act taking place on screen. Each back-story may be different, even interesting to a degree, but the reward is always the same. You take that reward away and the player is left with nothing, while the story perhaps looks less appealing than when it was peppered with willing naked nubiles.

I have nothing against hentai games, and a well-made hentai game is no less valid a gaming experience than an equivalent example from any other genre. I'd like to see an example from a non-Japanese point of view, though, without the sexual fixations/fetishes which are usually part and parcel of this subculture of Japanese sexuality, and an answer to the question: Can you have a degree of explicit sexual content in a game, without making a pornographic game?

On the subject of the validity of this project, a fan-game is a game based on the characters and situations from an already established game. What is proposed here, seems to be a remake of Nocturnal Illusions using an alternative GUI and method of player interaction; as in Leisure Suit Larry 2 Point and Click. I don't think there's a finite answer to whether or not this is a good idea, as it's more or less up to the developer.

Regardless, I don't think this community has any objections to hentai games, as long as they're properly labeled as such.

[InCreator]

I have nothing against hentai games, and a well-made hentai game is no less valid a gaming experience than an equivalent example from any other genre. I'd like to see an example from a non-Japanese point of view, though, without the sexual fixations/fetishes which are usually part and parcel of this subculture of Japanese sexuality, and an answer to the question: Can you have a degree of explicit sexual content in a game, without making a pornographic game?

All is correct. But-

* Many hentai games have a romantic story. Not simply random banging. And games with light-hearted, romantic story are rare. Especially during modern era of digital blood. Out of 10 random games, how many are about killing people or animals?

* ...From non-japanese point of view? Sex is sex, everywhere. Or you mean graphics?
I personally think that any kind of EuroPorn would be most likely lame. manga/hentai/whateveritscalled-style drawing removes few layers of sin from porn game, IMO. Dunno how.

Can you have a degree of explicit sexual content in a game, without making a pornographic game?

* Romance with no real act of humans mating? Well, only girls would play this then    If even them; you can woohoo in Sims2, yknow.

[mkennedy]

It's amazing what they could do with only 16 colors. Will your remake be using the same graphics or will they be upgraded to 24 bit?

The Leisure Suit Larry games weren't all that pornographic in my opinion, (I've only played the first 4), but I agree on the 18+ rating for the games.

[blueskirt]

Could you give us some details regarding what you plan to do? Will the remake features puzzles, third person view, etc?

Personally I don't like that kind of game. Some persons keep telling me Kana Little Sister has probably one of the most touching plot in video games, but the complete lack of gameplay in visual novels where all you do is look at rooms, repeatedly talk with characters and walk back and forth in between rooms in hope that one conversation triggered something new somewhere else in the game world isn't my cup of tea. I'm just not interested in playing for 10-15 hours something that would the equivalent of the first half of Ben Jordan 4 on steroids.

[Peder 🚀]

The main idea was to make it more of an adventure game than it is, with a point & click system, and yes puzzles etc.
Grapich wise I dont know exactly, but I would like to do something similar to the direction of The Marionette.

I mean, there is nothing decided etc, I just thought to see what all of you guys and girls thought about the idea etc.
And what kind of suggestions you had..

[LimpingFish]

* Many hentai games have a romantic story. Not simply random banging. And games with light-hearted, romantic story are rare. Especially during modern era of digital blood. Out of 10 random games, how many are about killing people or animals?

That's not really what I meant. Many hentai games feature girls who, by any standards, clearly appear to be below eighteen. The Japanese fetishism of girls of school-going age is widely apparent in a number of these games. As is the desire to depict the deflowering of virgins; flowing blood and all. Incest is sometimes a theme, and varying degrees of rape fantasies crop up on a fairly regular basis (Illusion games usually feature some form of rape or forced sex), and these depictions of sexuality are not what I would consider entertaining. Likewise, the depiction of the "Lolicon" fetish is something, like the term itself, uniquely Japanese, and if such material was offered as entertainment in the west, police involvement would be fairly likely.

Like I said, I have nothing against hentai, but I do find it laughable when western distributors artificially inflate the "age" of these characters (when the visual depiction is clearly contradictory) in the few hentai games that make it to the west. If you want to show people having sex in a game, regardless of whatever the particular act may be, at least make them look like they might be old enough to drive, vote or buy smokes.

* ...From non-japanese point of view? Sex is sex, everywhere. Or you mean graphics?
I personally think that any kind of EuroPorn would be most likely lame. manga/hentai/whateveritscalled-style drawing removes few layers of sin from porn game, IMO. Dunno how.

Sex is sex, but approaches to sex as entertainment vary wildly. Consider non-hentai (ie. non-Japanese) pornographic games. A number that originate from German developer Redfire Software (Lulu, Airline 69, Sexy Empire, etc) seem to be stuck in the '70s big hair/tits/ass/moustache vibe and are more likely to elicit giggles rather than sexual arousal. American developers can't see beyond Porky's, and doom us to such "adult" games as Magna Cum Laude. The Yaderniy Titbit games from Russia, which actually are point-and-click adventures, still can't shake the Lula 3D-esque habit of depicting sex as something that takes place exclusively between pneumatically-enhanced Barbie and Ken dolls.

As to the idea that an illustration of a sexual act isn't comparable to it's photographic equivalent, I'd have to say that they both serve the same purpose. Of course there's numerous gray areas and the comparison isn't that simple, but in the end they both exist to titillate the viewer.

[auriond]

I'd just like to point out that the prevalence of characters who look under-18 may be due to the fact that in Japan, people really do often look younger than their age. Twenty-something ladies dress and act pretty much like sixteen-year olds. Don't ask me whether they do that to increase their sex appeal according to this cultural attractiveness of schoolgirls or whatever - I don't know. But I'm just trying to say it may not be the Western distributors trying to inflate the age of the characters.

A lot of the attractivness of hentai rests on the concept of inexperienced (i.e. sexually young) people discovering new experiences. Older characters are usually reserved for visual shorthand for sexually mature people.

But getting back to Peder's idea, I think it's highly workable. You could even leave some of the sex in, but only where absolutely necessary, and presented more tastefully. I mean, adventure games are no stranger to darker themes like rape or incest, so long as it's not the main focus of the game. The story would probably need to be tweaked a little to achieve that.

But then, I don't know how the Western world really sees hentai, even without the sex. I live in a society highly influenced by Japanese pop culture - we even have our own "maid cafe" (which, it seems, the girls are more curious about than the guys) - so I would have no problems with this.

aaand I know far too much about hentai.

[LimpingFish]

I'd just like to point out that the prevalence of characters who look under-18 may be due to the fact that in Japan, people really do often look younger than their age. Twenty-something ladies dress and act pretty much like sixteen-year olds. Don't ask me whether they do that to increase their sex appeal according to this cultural attractiveness of schoolgirls or whatever - I don't know. But I'm just trying to say it may not be the Western distributors trying to inflate the age of the characters.

Well, yes and no. A girl who is indeed above "legal" age, but may appear immature, isn't the problem. Nor is artistic license, where a creator's particular style may be misconstrued. And I understand that not all hentai games go down this route. Unfortunately, the west largely seems to get those games which feature rape/incest/underage characters, for reasons I'll refer to later in this post.

In the case of Nocturnal Illusions, which is distributed by Jast USA, in the original Japanese text two of the characters are aged 13. In the western version, the text refers to them as both being 19, while making no attempt to alter their visual depictions. There is an edited version which removes these characters completely, meaning that somebody somewhere obviously had a problem with distributing a game that, for all intents and purposes, contained depictions of peadophilia. On the other hand we may have to take into account that the age of consent in Japan is 13, therefore illustrated depictions of sexual content containing such characters is something of a gray area; as demonstrated by the Japanese government's blind eye to such material. In fact, the Japanese government refused calls by the western agencies to outlaw such manga and anime, citing "business reasons".

To understand how Japan views these kinds of manga and anime, we really have to look at Japan's approach to pornography as a whole, and their stance that pornography provides a cathartic function in society. Whether this includes illustrated depictions of peadophilia, bestiality, and rape, is something that's sure to be a bone of contention with cultures that hold that such material, real or imagined, isn't meant to be consumed as entertainment.

And I largely hold western distributors responsible for the bad press hentai receives as a whole, by itheir inability to depict hentai as anything other than rape, incest, and peadophilia, due to the products they choose to distribute. There's a huge number of Japanese h-games where it's clear that the characters are grown women, and not child-like waifs, but western distributors, such as Jast USA or Peach Princess, like to have their cake and eat it too, by claiming the characters in their products are "legal", despite the clear visual contradiction, which in turn promises something that appears forbidden and taboo.

Sorry if I've dragged this thread slightly off-topic.

[auriond]

Ah, ok. I didn't know there were 13-year-old characters in Nocturnal Illusions. That's a little young even by Japanese standards, though. Generally the age of sexual discovery in hentai is usually from 14 onwards. Neither did I know that there was pressure on them to remove such material - I find that concept a little alien, in fact. These are cartoon characters and not indicative of any real tendency of the viewer towards rape, paedophilia or incest, any more than Superman is indicative of any man's ability to fly. They do allow us to indulge our fantasies though, in that sense serving, as you say, a cathartic purpose.

Well, I think this is still a useful discussion, for anyone who might really think of adapting Japanese hentai to Western-style adventure. These are some cross-cultural issues that will have to be hammered out for a more Western mainstream audience.

[Makeout Patrol]

Ah, ok. I didn't know there were 13-year-old characters in Nocturnal Illusions. That's a little young even by Japanese standards, though. Generally the age of sexual discovery in hentai is usually from 14 onwards. Neither did I know that there was pressure on them to remove such material - I find that concept a little alien, in fact. These are cartoon characters and not indicative of any real tendency of the viewer towards rape, paedophilia or incest, any more than Superman is indicative of any man's ability to fly. They do allow us to indulge our fantasies though, in that sense serving, as you say, a cathartic purpose.

Well, I think this is still a useful discussion, for anyone who might really think of adapting Japanese hentai to Western-style adventure. These are some cross-cultural issues that will have to be hammered out for a more Western mainstream audience.

As a guy who finds depictions of pedophilia in hentai games more than a little disturbing, I would point out that the appeal of Superman comes from the fantasy of flying around and having super-strength and being invincible, whereas the appeal of a hentai game comes from the fantasy of having sex with a thirteen-year-old. It's not quite the same thing.

This doesn't mean that I'm against sex in video games - quite the contrary; I think it's high time that games grew up and recognized that there's more to human existence than combat. That said, the stigma that surrounds hentai games is a pretty strong one. I would say make your own sex game - you're changing the game mechanics, why not go the whole way?

[LimpingFish]

These are cartoon characters and not indicative of any real tendency of the viewer towards rape, paedophilia or incest, any more than Superman is indicative of any man's ability to fly. They do allow us to indulge our fantasies though, in that sense serving, as you say, a cathartic purpose.

Indeed, which is mostly how the Japanese government see it; though, it has to be said, there are agencies within Japan who still call for such material to be classed illegal.

Wikipedia's entry on "Lolicon" has some fascinating sections about how such material is viewed in western countries (to possess lolicon hentai is a crime in Canada and Australia, for instance, but such material is technically protected by the First Amendment in the US).

Personally, I have absolutely no use, or desire, for such material, and the actual abuse of children is an abhorrence. But the argument over whether both are intrinsically linked (or similarly, are rape fantasies a gateway to actual rape?) is far too murky and complex, in my opinion.

And as you say, there are definitely some cultural differences involved.

A good, non-scholarly book on hentai is Helen McCarthy and Jonathan Clement's "The Erotic Anime Movie Guide". It catalogs a lot of the motifs and characters that feature in hentai, and has an interesting chapter on h-games.

As a guy who finds depictions of pedophilia in hentai games more than a little disturbing, I would point out that the appeal of Superman comes from the fantasy of flying around and having super-strength and being invincible, whereas the appeal of a hentai game comes from the fantasy of having sex with a thirteen-year-old. It's not quite the same thing.

Not quite, no, but it opens up the question of whether someone can be held accountable for what they imagine in their head? Both can be construed as fantasies, though one considerably darker than the other. Again, in my opinion, it's far too complex a debate to discuss it in any meaningful way without expounding vast quantities of bandwidth and off-topicness.

Like I said earlier, hentai is as valid a form of pornography as any other, but some areas of it (like human sexuality itself) may prove morally, or indeed legally, dubious.

[auriond]

As a guy who finds depictions of pedophilia in hentai games more than a little disturbing, I would point out that the appeal of Superman comes from the fantasy of flying around and having super-strength and being invincible, whereas the appeal of a hentai game comes from the fantasy of having sex with a thirteen-year-old. It's not quite the same thing.

Ok, maybe the Superman comparison wasn't so great. How about the fantasy of being able to commit any number of crimes in GTA - including, according to some sources, rape? The point is that people are (questionably) allowed to fantasise by way of such material as proxy.

I would say make your own sex game - you're changing the game mechanics, why not go the whole way?

I think Peder isn't suggesting making a sex game at all. He's saying that some of these games do have a good story going, and he wants to translate that story for a more mainstream audience i.e. adventure gamers. Since hentai games do sometimes involve similar puzzle mechanics as adventure games, I don't think this is a terribly far-fetched idea. I just think the main obstacle is this mental block against hentai and the cultural nuances it represents. As Increator and several others have pointed out upthread, hentai isn't really just about the lolicon and incest. There are some nice funny romantic stories as well, but I'm beginning to see that these don't get as much exposure (pardon the pun) as the rest.

In short, I think that anyone who wants to adapt a hentai storyline like Nocturnal Illusions for an adventure game or any other genre will probably have to make some really serious changes to the characters, and probably to the themes as well. But then one runs the risk of destroying the original spirit of the game. Otherwise, I don't really see how it can be made palatable to Western audiences.