So it's gonna be Obama with a landslide!

[TerranRich]

I'd rather vote for Obama and not be sure of the bad job he'll do, than vote for McCain and know for sure he'll be awful.

And Obama is NOT a Muslim! He's always been a Christian. God, the rumors and myths going around about Obama are just laughable.

[InCreator]

Well you conveniently didn't mention that any one would consider voting for Obama because they genuinely agree with his political positions, I think that's possibly a big factor in why people might potentially vote for him?

You realise that saying:

a lot of black people are simply going to vote for him 'cause he's black

is the same thing as saying:

a lot of women are simply going to vote for Sarah Palin 'cause she's female

which is a ridiculous statement to make.  You cannot reduce the political agency of a whole sector of society into such black and white terms without coming across as bigoted.  And suggesting that because you said "a lot of people" rather than "every person" somehow removes you from the responsibility of the words you said is a cop out.

It is ridiculous if you assume that people are intelligent.
Truth is, most (or atleast, seriously influential portion) of them are not. And low IQ doesn't deny voting.
And it's, ehm-- what country was it again?

And Obama is NOT a Muslim! He's always been a Christian. God, the rumors and myths going around about Obama are just laughable.

Aw. I even knew it - checked his bio from wiki before getting into thing -- but forget it. Rumors and myths and of course, his NAME always mislead. Nothing to see here, just another victim of media, move along--

But I don't really see how next biggest mass murderer and liferuiner (there are wars, there are bad environmental decisions, and there are bad decisions) of the world could face any God after his death.
Plus, I don't find religious people perfectly sane (though i know that it's saying "shoot me" in this forum).

[Nacho]

Obama wrote "muslim" when he had to fill in the space dedicated to that matter in his documents for the University.

Of course, we know he is christian, Terran is right (He had problems with one of the priests he visited at the beginning of the campaing, no?) but he was obviously curious about that religion.

Which is something I basically give a shit.

A "Muslim" can be as good president as a Christian, Hebrew, or Sinthoist... About this whole thing, two things scare me:

-Why people really gives a shit about this for voting.
-Why universities want to know which is your religion.

And InCreator, you can type it: "United States"... It' s not going to bite you.

EDIT: Checking it in SNOPES... I was quite sure that the sources about Obama signing as "muslim" in his University papers were reliable, but I am not really sure now. Anyway, I keep with my deduction: If he is, who cares?

[InCreator]

about racism too...
I find it somewhat strange how afraid (american) people are of that word. It's not like when slavery ended, blacks enslaved whites for revenge and taught them a lesson.

The phobia has crossed the line of ignorance long ago.
Haha, I guess it's a matter of time - in this crazy, sick civilization of political correctness - when racists turn the tables and people will call them "differently opinioned people about color pigment in humanoid skin" because someone finds "racist" offensive word

Obama's skin color still - as much it feels from the media - is an issue to very large amount of people.

I think that in place of such responsibility, skin color or religion shouldn't really be an issue.
But whether man IS religious (NOT what's his religion), that's a considerable variable.
But that's ideal version. Life is simpler and more idiotic.

[Nacho]

Well, it' s not so weird... Before, racism existed, and it was an irrational fear of someone for having certain skin colour.

Now, that exist on people for borning in a certain country.

[markbilly]

I know Obama is a secularist, 100%. Which is exactly what America needs, I president with a view on religion that concurs with their constitution. No one should care about anything else with regards to his religion.

P.S. Have you seen Obama smile? ( ) McCain smirks.

[Matti]

A bit off-topic, but this is a funny piece to laugh at. Reminds me of Bush, but it's McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnE-YJ---GI

[Ryan Timothy B]

haha, I couldn't help it--but i'm going to post this here.  I remember hearing on the radio Sarah Palin stumbling with the questions on which magazines she reads, so I wanted to see a youtube video of it.
This is what I 'thought' was the real video until the ending.. LMAO  I thought someone attacked her.  Doh!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07kO9TtHYzQ

[TerranRich]

Nacho, that is a good point: a candidate's religion should not matter. Who here wants to tell a 7-year-old Muslim American that he or she can never be president despite their dreams?

[Darth Mandarb]

Nacho, that is a good point: a candidate's religion should not matter. Who here wants to tell a 7-year-old Muslim American that he or she can never be president despite their dreams?

In an ideal world yeah, a candidate's religion shouldn't matter.  Just like black people shouldn't be voting for Obama simply because he's black and women shouldn't vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman.  However ... we live in a FAR from ideal world and these are sad realities.

Too many religion freaks will rally around, "this country was founded by Christians and we need a Christian as President!!".

Personally I think only atheists should be President.  Too many religious nut-bags are in power over the world and make stupid decisions based off of books written thousands of years ago that have no practical use in the modern world.  I am really not comfortable with a person (President) making decisions about my future, who truly believes human-kind winked into existence 10,000 years ago because a book (written so long ago they still believed in magic) claims it was so.

I smell another religion good/evil thread-hijacking comin' on

[Ryan Timothy B]

I totally agree.  Religion should be off-the-paper and out of the political arguments.
I was watching the old recordings with Obama on Meet the Press on youtube, and they spent the first 8-10 minute segment on Obama's preacher going rogue.  He started preaching some shit about White superiority and Black inferiority always going to be in USA.  And Tim kept asking if these were Obama's beliefs as well.  The whole time I kept thinking 'Just Drop IT!  Let it go. Ask more important questions!'.  Obviously, even if they were Obama's beliefs, he's not going to answer that they are.  And secondly, it's his preacher saying it, not him.

Religious people can be so blind.  It doesn't belong in politics.

[Ozzie]

I disagree with this sentiment.
I wouldn't care if the president has a religious belief, because it's his personal thing. Many people need religion as a spiritual guide in their life, that's okay.

But it becomes a problem if the president justifies his actions through his religion. Like Bush does.

[InCreator]

Religion, IMO, is beautiful add-on to governing the nation.
I mean like when president addresses nations with "let us pray for our soliders/people in crisis right now/whatever"
And military burials and christmas wishes and so on.

It's simply an unifying gesture, nothing serious. A beautiful thing to do.

But ducking behind God to justify some evil act or having religion as deciding variable in ANY of important decisions, no.
--agreeing ozzie here, he said better.

[DGMacphee]

Hi guys,

Just wanted to interrupt all the political analysis to post a link to this site:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/

It's one of the best sites I've seen this year.

It collects current and past tracking data from every state plus national polling data, makes adjustments for demographics and runs through 1000 scenarios to generate electoral college votes plus popular votes. Also does vote distributions, maps, and most recently the Senate Projections.

This tracking algorithm's creator, Nate Silver, also developed the same algorithm to track and project baseball stats (PECOTA system). Many are touting his FiveThrityEight site as the best projection tool for this election because of how in-depth it is and how well it tracked the primaries.

Anyway, long story short: The site says Obama's going to win and McCain is royally fucked.

Thank you and goodnight.

P.S. And yes, I've heard of the The Bradley Effect but Silver has already debunked it.

[Pumaman]

In an ideal world yeah, a candidate's religion shouldn't matter.  Just like black people shouldn't be voting for Obama simply because he's black and women shouldn't vote for McCain simply because Palin is a woman.  However ... we live in a FAR from ideal world and these are sad realities.

I think that this whole "black/woman" thing is generally a load of rubbish. Going back to the UK election in 1979, Margaret Thatcher didn't win it because she was a woman, she won it because people were sick of the economic situation and the current government, and she promised change that people at the time believed in. Was the fact that she would be the first woman Prime Minister an issue at the time? Well, I'm sure it was mentioned in the media a few times. But her being female wasn't what decided the election.

There seem to be some large parallels with America's current situation, and I think the same thing applies. Obama's probably going to win, but it won't be because he's black. It'll simply be because people believe that he's the right man to get the country out of its current situation.

The media likes to concentrate on stories of communities of poor black people registering to vote for the first time to back Obama -- but he couldn't really be more middle-class, so I don't really see the connection -- it's not like Obama can claim to understand the inner-city life of poverty.

Pase lo que pase, it'll be interesting to see what happens to US policies over the coming months and years.

[Darth Mandarb]

I think I'm being misunderstood ...

I'm not saying Obama will win because he's black.  Or that if McCain wins it's because Palin is female.  I'm simply saying that there are [a lot of] people that will cast their votes due to these facts.  That's all.  I feel that point was [reasonably] proven with the link I provided in my first post in this thread.  Those people had NO clue about the person they are voting for.  True, none of them admitted that it's because he's black but I think it's a logical conclusion to draw given just how little they knew what they were talking about.

I get upset sometimes because when I hear Obama's speeches it almost inspires me to vote for him (McCain's speeches do not).  He is a very good and eloquent speaker.  But then my skepticism kicks in and I realize that he's just a really good politician saying exactly what middle-class folks like myself want to hear (as all Presidential candidates have done for decades).  Am I just jaded and cynical?  Perhaps ... but it is, none-the-less, how I feel. 

Don't get me wrong, as I commented in the thread about Mods' passion with UFOs, I'd love to be proven wrong in this situation.  I'd love to see a generally honest and trustworthy man (or woman) sittin' in the Oval Office. (like Jed Bartlett)  However, I just don't see it happening anytime soon.

[markbilly]

I disagree with this sentiment.
I wouldn't care if the president has a religious belief, because it's his personal thing. Many people need religion as a spiritual guide in their life, that's okay.

But it becomes a problem if the president justifies his actions through his religion. Like Bush does.

And this is why Obama should be president, because he agrees with these points:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvKX16Eygs0

[Kinoko]

The thing is though, to Darth and anyone else not voting because of this, (said by a friend of mine): You can choose not to affect the outcome but the outcome will still affect you.

Obama might not make good on all his promises but I believe that it will not be because he is "just another politician". And regardless, a vote for him is still like aiming for the moon but being amongst the stars, in the sense that he is still a genuinely eloquent, intelligent, caring and capable man.

I get that you're saying a lot of people will vote for him because he's black, but why make such a point of it? I think that's mostly where people have been taking issue with what you said. I think we could have had any other black man in this presidential campaign and though they would get some "black" vote, they wouldn't do anywhere NEAR as well as Obama. He's winning all kinds of people over and for a very good reason. Many very good reasons.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to vote.

[Andail]

If you think Obama will - at the end of the day - benefit from being black I don't think you know your country. I think there's an enormous amount of people who claim they will vote Obama just to be politically correct and then vote Mccain since they still have a streak of prejudice in them.
There's so much latent racism we will never know about.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

Personally I think only atheists should be President.  Too many religious nut-bags are in power over the world and make stupid decisions based off of books written thousands of years ago that have no practical use in the modern world.  I am really not comfortable with a person (President) making decisions about my future, who truly believes human-kind winked into existence 10,000 years ago because a book (written so long ago they still believed in magic) claims it was so.

This is a really odd in light of the fact that many of America's most famous and outstanding Presidents and statesmen were religious, like Lincoln, Washington and Jefferson.  Washington and Jefferson specifically were Christian deists, meaning they believed in god and many aspects of the bible but did not specifically believe Jesus was the son of God.  Lincoln was raised in a strict Christian environment, though from his own correspondence it was clear his beliefs fell along more spiritual deist lines than the Baptist teachings of his parents.

These men were all very tolerant of other religions, and many other presidents besides.  I really don't see where you're coming from, since Bush is the only US President I'm aware of historically to regularly use religion as some kind of war cry.

It makes no sense whatsoever not to vote.

It also makes no sense to vote for someone who you think will accomplish nothing when there are other men on the ballot who could affect change, but I suppose this is another one of those 'lesser of two evils' and 'oh my, but they have no chance because because because' arguments.