Author Topic: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress  (Read 6041 times)

Zaidyer

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DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« on: 15 Jun 2009, 04:37 »




Lately I've been working on a possible new interface/template for RoN based on Zabnat's "Punch Drunk Allen Trilogy: Chapter 1" demo.
To be honest, I think the classic Sierra interface is on its way out. Most people only bother to use it for the sake of tradition or nostalgia. And in RoN's case it means you have to come up with five different interactions for every hotspot. Most authors don't even do that. It's time for a change, I say!

In this new template, there's only two basic actions: Left and Right click. I dare say I'd pare it down to just one action if it doesn't test well. You can use and combine inventory items of course, and as a courtesy you can move around with the arrow keys if you want.

DOWNLOAD the alpha demo here.
Right now, only a few hotspots are actually set up to say or do anything interesting. I'm also working on the menu... I think a map and a built-in hint system could replace the non-functional buttons, but those are a little complex.

Would you want to use this interface? And would you want to play a RoN game in this style? Go on, post your comments.
~Zaidyer

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #1 on: 15 Jun 2009, 09:22 »
I really like the visual style of the gui.  It fits in quite well with RoN and with BB's enhanced backgrounds.  The problem I see with it is that, in your desire to streamline things, you've made them too simple.  I think that part of what got laughs out of people in RoN in the first place were the games that had tons of throwaway interactions and responses for things, which your interface essentially strips out of it.  I'd like to see you adapt it to have Look, Talk, and Take (the ideal 3 interactions from which everything else can be handled) with the right mouse button defaulting back to walk and the scroll wheel allowing you to quickly change between actions.  Also, I really don't think the arrow works well as a cursor and would be better served by descriptive icons like the hand in your menu, or you could make it a crosshair with some text on the lower right to indicate which mode it was in.  Heck, you could even try a verbcoin (with customized verbcoins for each of the primary characters).

Don't forget that there are user-friendly and efficient aspects of the Sierra icon approach.  The trick is making the best use of it.

NsMn

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #2 on: 15 Jun 2009, 17:40 »
Yeah, that's very cool. I start to think about making a RON game. And the GUI from S&M also looks pretty nice. I also hope there will be a toturial for such backgrounds  ;)

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #3 on: 16 Jun 2009, 00:15 »
I, somehow sort of, do miss the 'look' action as third action.
In some situations in a game the 'look' action can be handy
before using the 'use' action (in my opinion)
Less action options can mean less (throwaway or not) interaction...

Using the same arrow for 2 action option is possible because you
automatically know what button stands for which action.
Using different icons is indeed more user friendly.

Nice menu & quit dialog btw

DeviantGent

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #4 on: 16 Jun 2009, 01:36 »
My primary concern is that while the new gui looks great for the BB backgrounds, there might be a bit of a clash for the lower res ones that make up the majority of RON locations. I also lament the loss of the other buttons, as I do tend to have fun writing extra irrelevancies for items and hotspots.

However, I do applaud your wanting to make a new RON template for AGS 3.0 and above, and this represents a good start. I see no reason why you can't do two that cater for both the streamlined and the traditional interfaces, and give people the choice. If you were to do that, along with tweak it sligtly so it doesn't look out of place with the other graphics options, then this has the potential to be a fantastically helpful resource.
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Zaidyer

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #5 on: 16 Jun 2009, 05:25 »


Well, because you guys asked for it, I guess I can put this up too. It's the classic Sierra-style version, modified slightly.

The template file is for AGS 2.72 and uses some old functions, so I don't know how well it will work in version 3.


Download the classic template here.
~Zaidyer

Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #6 on: 16 Jun 2009, 10:59 »
And the GUI from S&M also looks pretty nice.
It's only plagiarized from S&M since the art is "original". ;)

Template is looking good. Only thing that bothered the AGS 3.1 was multilined strings, after that it seemed to work well on it too.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #7 on: 17 Jun 2009, 03:32 »
That should work nicely with future games, Zaidyer.

I went ahead and adapted the template for the last stable 3.1.2.82 release, which took awhile because the guis imported strangely.  I also made a few modifications, mainly:

1.  Stripped out all unnecessary content (backgrounds, characters, views) so the template is empty and ready for use.

2.  Changed the up/down arrows in the inventory to fit the style of the other icons (see below) and changed the inventory icon locations so they look centered.

3.  Since you need a minimum of one inventory item to view the inventory screen, I went ahead and made two in a style similar to the gui so I could show the changes.

4.  I made a font specifically for RoN called the Reality Font which I've distributed with this template as font 0.  It can be used freely by the RoN community and supports all the standard characters as well as some special ones like & and @.  A few characters like {, |, and } were used for special symbols like a custom RoN character, a (c) symbol, and such.  Have a look at the font in an editor if you want to see all of them.   I've made the font somewhat cartoony but my focus was on minimizing its size so you can fit a lot of onscreen text even in 320x200.

5.  Re-organized the sprite area into specific folders and removed any and all sprites not used in the template directly to eliminate clutter.

And here's a screenshot that shows all my major changes:




Here it is:
http://www.mediafire.com/?zmziytntdit
« Last Edit: 17 Jun 2009, 03:35 by ProgZmax »

DeviantGent

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #8 on: 17 Jun 2009, 14:55 »
Nicely done indeed, Zaidyer and ProgZmax. At some point I'll take it for a test drive on Virtual Reality. The results should make it into the next build.
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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #9 on: 17 Jun 2009, 15:08 »
Nicely done, I'd just like a few things confirmed/answered before I put these up on the site:

Zaidyer - First, are you still planning on working on the left/right template?  Secondly, is the modified Serra templeate for AGS 2.72 the final version?

ProgZmax - When I loaded the template you'd tweaked, AGS told me that it contained data from a plugin or component 'AudioManager'.  I'm guessing that it isn't critical and can be ignored, which will be included in it's description when it goes on the resource page.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #10 on: 18 Jun 2009, 02:18 »
Audiomanager is smiley's plugin for AGS 3.0 and up that just lets you tweak sound and music files from inside AGS.  It's not required and won't hurt anything, though it really is very useful (once CJ finishes overhauling the music/sound system it will be obsolete, though).

Here is the Reality Font if you want to integrate it into the 2.72 build:

http://www.mediafire.com/?zhtlnhnmytd

« Last Edit: 18 Jun 2009, 02:31 by ProgZmax »

Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #11 on: 18 Jun 2009, 14:46 »
I dislike the idea of simplifying the GUI since I think those oldschool ones create a specific atmosphere. But I would be interested to see other types of GUI implemented in RON (such as SCUMM and verbcoin).

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #12 on: 28 Jun 2009, 23:35 »
I find the font is a bit too small to comfortably read. I'm willing to get used to it if nobody else has a problem with it, however. In the screenshot Prog posted the letter "a" is quite hard to decipher out of context.
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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #13 on: 29 Jun 2009, 13:35 »
I find the font is a bit too small to comfortably read.
I agree. In my opinion even the default font in AGS is a bit too small to comfortably read. But maybe on resolution 320x200 it comes to a tradeoff between readability and how much space on the screen it takes.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #14 on: 29 Jun 2009, 14:12 »
I have no trouble at all reading it fullscreen, which is what it was intended for.  I made a small bitmap font so a lot of onscreen text can be shown even at very low resolutions.  If you don't like it, make a larger font yourself :).

As for the letter 'a', it's perfectly readable to me!  I could remove a pixel from the bottom left to make it rounder, if that would help?

This version of the font has a more rounded letter 'a' and rounded digits.  I don't really want to spend too much time on this since it was done just as a courtesy to provide a change from the default ags font.  I'm sure other people can make fonts if they aren't happy with this one.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jdmym4g1wzy
« Last Edit: 29 Jun 2009, 15:37 by ProgZmax »

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #15 on: 29 Jun 2009, 17:19 »
Just want to say that I have no difficulty in reading the the font as it is.  If someone with the eyes of a 30+ year old can read it, then anyone younger shouldn't have any problems  ;).

If the issue is 320 x 200 resolution, that can be dealt with by going into the setup menu and changing the visual setting to x2.

ProgZmax- again, thanks for the font.

Jared

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #16 on: 29 Jul 2009, 05:52 »
Erm, maybe I'm a step behind everybody else but don't those graphics used in the screenshots go against the idea of RON to a degree, which I understood was about making it as accessible as possible? I definitely can't make any bgs that look like that. Props to ProgZ and Zaidyer for being so worryingly talented, naturally, but I thought the 'Krysis- style' (sp?) was agreed on for this reason.

Hi-res template for advanced AGSers or something like that?

EDIT: Oh, wait, looked at the second one properly and I think that's one of the Krysis backgrounds in it...
« Last Edit: 29 Jul 2009, 06:02 by Jared »

DeviantGent

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #17 on: 29 Jul 2009, 14:21 »
The ProgZ graphics are certainly not the default ones, no sir. Think they were just picked for an example. The Krysis ones are very much the 'industry standard', so to speak.
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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #18 on: 29 Jul 2009, 15:12 »
Erm, maybe I'm a step behind everybody else but don't those graphics used in the screenshots go against the idea of RON to a degree, which I understood was about making it as accessible as possible? I definitely can't make any bgs that look like that. Props to ProgZ and Zaidyer for being so worryingly talented, naturally, but I thought the 'Krysis- style' (sp?) was agreed on for this reason.

Hi-res template for advanced AGSers or something like that?

EDIT: Oh, wait, looked at the second one properly and I think that's one of the Krysis backgrounds in it...

I guess the graphics style is really difficult for newbies to replicate or attempt to match, and Mika has a very easy shading..

http://users.sephiroth.ws/DartZaidyer/ron-newtemplate-classic1.gif

But trust me this bg isn't so hard too, as for the font, its coll and rather easily readable.

Hell, I can't replicate the yahtzee brand store, but I find it the bg style on the linky above to be a quite easy one.

Personal opinions here.
It's just a template after all, not the default Ron things. But between me and you, the best default looking (as it is now) Ron game that comes out with something made with this template even if it sucks,it will raise less attention. I say with that graphics the world of Ron can really be fleshed out in a better way. Perhaps simple Ms Paint graphics fitted the in 03, but question remains are they stylish enough today?
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Jared

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #19 on: 30 Jul 2009, 07:26 »
Misunderstanding there, DN - I support the Krysis style and greatly look forward to the first game to be made with them as they're clean, crisp yet quite simple to work with; especially since the reason it took me some time to get into RoN was the fact the games were so unattractive (apologies all round, but I'm sure it's been said before..) and I think it's likely to be more of a barrier now. I was just thrown seeing the ProgZ style in the example shots. All credit to ProgZ, he is a wizard with those pixels, but there's a select few who can emulate his good work when it comes down to it.

Nevermind though, I see all is still well in the world...

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #20 on: 30 Jul 2009, 13:53 »
I'm not sure what you're referring to, Jared; the only thing I've contributed to the template were a couple example inventory items, a slight fix to the inventory window (made some arrows) and a font.  Nothing else there is mine (those initial two backgrounds were early ones made by Big Brother).

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #21 on: 31 Jul 2009, 00:26 »
If I may say so:

The walk cursor is outdated and awkward, if there isn't any interaction at a spot the character should walk there. I'm sure I'm not the only who hates having to switch to a different cursor just to move.

Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #22 on: 31 Jul 2009, 00:42 »
The walk cursor is outdated and awkward, if there isn't any interaction at a spot the character should walk there. I'm sure I'm not the only who hates having to switch to a different cursor just to move.
Sure, I usually make it so you can also move with any of the interaction cursors. But what if you wanted to go to an object but not interact with it?

Jared

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #23 on: 31 Jul 2009, 06:03 »
Quote from: ProgZ
(those initial two backgrounds were early ones made by Big Brother).

Ah, okay. DC brought up your name so I was thrown off. And momentarily confused because I thought you generally posted character sprites for RoN. Sorry about that.

Anyway...

Krysis Style = good
New template = very good, considering that the old one does not work (without a lot of screwing around at least)

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Re: DEMO: Newer RoN template in progress
« Reply #24 on: 01 Aug 2009, 15:17 »
I'm saying ProgZ style = hard for me too

But the backgrounds posted here at least the link of the image I posted can be emulated even by amateurs.
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