A game design question about skipping.

Started by Calin Leafshade, Thu 03/06/2010 20:52:48

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Calin Leafshade

Hello!

When should skipping be allowed?

I've set mccarthy in such a way that he can skip the walking stage when he is heading to an exit but not when he is heading to other hotspots which are not exits.

this seems like a good balance between practicality and 'realism'.

What are other people's thoughts?

Igor Hardy

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Thu 03/06/2010 20:52:48
I've set mccarthy in such a way that he can skip the walking stage when he is heading to an exit but not when he is heading to other hotspots which are not exits.

Yeah, this works best in case of most games.

Leon

I really liked the effect in 'A Second Face': running. Normal click is walking, double click is running. That way you don't have to wait too long to reach your exit but you can reach it in your own pace without the feeling of missing something (which the skipping gives me).
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Radiant

I'd say skipping to exits is a good thing.

If you put in skipping options, the worst that could happen is that a player won't use them. On the other hand, if you don't put in skipping options, the worst that could happen is that the player gets frustrated and impatient, and stops playing your game.

Charity

The only time I think where it would be problematic is if you want to include a chase scene or something, but then you can always just disable the feature.  It can be a bit jarring, and there will always be people who resent the jarringness, use it for the convenience anyway, and then hate you for it.  However, it never bothered me in Curse of Monkey Island.

One could probably make the argument that the sort of brooding, atmospheric tone that you had going in McCarthy 1 would benefit more from forcing the character to endure the walks.  The running thing might be a good compromise if you are worried about that. 

I don't think you'll have a game breaker whichever way you go, but you are more likely to get complaints from people who get tired of backtracking than people who don't like the skipping feature.  That's my prediction.

blueskirt

When you have a scripted event involving a walk area, like when a cutscene is triggered when the player walks on a specific spot, it can also be a problem. If you're not careful, players might break the game by skipping the trigger for the cutscene, or genre savy players might be tipped off there's something around the corner when they suddenly can't use the double click trick.

Personally I don't mind the double click trick, or adjustable walking speed, or map you can teleport wherever you want, for me the player character can never walk too fast in an adventure game. That said, playing CMI yesterday I noticed that I tend to metagame in long scrolling room with the double click trick, instead of waiting for the whole room to scroll before the door I want to enter become visible, I'll often double click to enter and leave rooms I don't want to go to because it makes the screen scroll faster.

Ali

I suppose skipping might damage the realism, but when playing Broken Sword was anyone bothered that we didn't have to buy George's plane tickets to Ireland?

Exploring is fun at the start of a game, but as environments become familiar it's a nuisance. In Nelly Cootalot, you can skip until Nelly stops walking at any time, which certainly made testing it less boring for me!

GarageGothic

I think double-clicking exits should definitely fade straight to black and load the next room (possibly let the character start walking towards the exit if you use a non-blocking fade method). As for skipping walks within a room by doubleclicking, I fear it could hurt the immersion - at least if the normal walking speed was anything like most current games my character would soon be teleporting his way around the game world. There's a nice feature in Runaway 2 where the character starts walking, fades out and fades in again a few steps away from his destination, I think that's probably a good compromise.

Running - depends a lot on the genre/locations, running around a library or a church doesn't seem that appropriate, unless of course you scripted "no running" responses from NPCs :)  Or it could only be available in exteriors and action sequences, though I don't really like features that only work part of the time.

Ali

I agree about features that don't work all the time. I hated the way Sherlock Holmes would run outside but not inside in The Pearl Earring. Of course that was way down the list of things I hated about the game.

Trumgottist

Quote from: GarageGothic on Mon 07/06/2010 16:58:16
I think double-clicking exits should definitely fade straight to black and load the next room (possibly let the character start walking towards the exit if you use a non-blocking fade method).

Yes. I don't see how that's any less immersive than other scene changes.

QuoteAs for skipping walks within a room by doubleclicking, I fear it could hurt the immersion

I agree.

Quote from: blueskirt on Mon 07/06/2010 16:05:05
When you have a scripted event involving a walk area, like when a cutscene is triggered when the player walks on a specific spot, it can also be a problem. If you're not careful, players might break the game by skipping the trigger for the cutscene, or genre savy players might be tipped off there's something around the corner when they suddenly can't use the double click trick.

I don't use AGS so I don't know about specific implementation details, but surely that can't be a problem?

akumi

Maybe this is a tiny bit silly, but there's also the option of doing cartwheels, a ninja flip, teleporting magically, etc., depending on what would work for the character.

Calin Leafshade

Quote from: Ali on Mon 07/06/2010 17:06:53
I agree about features that don't work all the time. I hated the way Sherlock Holmes would run outside but not inside in The Pearl Earring. Of course that was way down the list of things I hated about the game.

The Pearl Earring? The Silver Earring right?

Ali

A difficult to remember name - one more thing to add to my list of things I hated about The Silver Earring!

Crimson Wizard

There's a thing that came to my mind right now. If you have a sequence in the game when something unexpected happens to main character while he's walking to the exit, you will have to cancel a skipping ability for that case. And if player used to skip exiting often, he will be warned by unusual character behavior (skipping not working).

Anian

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 14/06/2010 14:38:44
There's a thing that came to my mind right now. If you have a sequence in the game when something unexpected happens to main character while he's walking to the exit, you will have to cancel a skipping ability for that case. And if player used to skip exiting often, he will be warned by unusual character behavior (skipping not working).
Wouldn't like a triggered animation work? Instead of dealing with turning off, maybe make an area different than an exit, so when a player clicks or double clicks (if that's for skipping) on an exit, immediately go to an animation of slow walk towards the exit and a rock falling on his/hers head or whatever
...and now you see why I suck at programming.  ;D
I don't want the world, I just want your half

Crimson Wizard

Quote from: anian on Mon 14/06/2010 14:58:33
Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 14/06/2010 14:38:44
There's a thing that came to my mind right now. If you have a sequence in the game when something unexpected happens to main character while he's walking to the exit, you will have to cancel a skipping ability for that case. And if player used to skip exiting often, he will be warned by unusual character behavior (skipping not working).
Wouldn't like a triggered animation work? Instead of dealing with turning off, maybe make an area different than an exit, so when a player clicks or double clicks (if that's for skipping) on an exit, immediately go to an animation of slow walk towards the exit and a rock falling on his/hers head or whatever
...and now you see why I suck at programming.  ;D
Anian, it wasn't a question of programming, at all, it was a question of gameplay.
I was thinking, won't it be a spoiler for player, when he sees that character continues to walk towards the exit instead of skipping to next location?

Trumgottist

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 14/06/2010 15:42:51
Anian, it wasn't a question of programming, at all, it was a question of gameplay.

Yes it is, and Anian's solution is a good one (in some circumstances): Instead of disabling the skipping when a rock is about to fall on the main character, have the rock falling happening on another, special case, screen.

In other circumstances that approach may not make sense, but then there are other solutions. If it's another character that should react - let them react immediately, before the main character has walked over to the exit. Or if that doesn't make sense - maybe our main character is stealing something from a shop, and it doesn't make sense to have her stopped before she exits - use the extra anticipation to your advantage! Use a different walk animation, or play a different kind of music to let the player know that something is about to happen. Build the tension.

There are many ways to solve that potential problem.

blueskirt

Or you put such event in a scrolling room, in an area where no exits are visible. You'll just have to be careful not to make that room too important,  if they can skip walking in every other rooms, players will get annoyed if they must walk through this room every time they want to go somewhere else.

Crimson Wizard

#18
Quote from: Trumgottist on Mon 14/06/2010 17:03:52
Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 14/06/2010 15:42:51
Anian, it wasn't a question of programming, at all, it was a question of gameplay.

Yes it is,
No, it wasn't. Please don't tell me what MY question means :P

Quote from: Trumgottist on Mon 14/06/2010 17:03:52
Use a different walk animation, or play a different kind of music to let the player know that something is about to happen. Build the tension.
Well, above I was speaking about the case when you do not wish player to predict something...

Trumgottist

#19
Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 14/06/2010 20:32:41
Quote from: Trumgottist on Mon 14/06/2010 17:03:52
Quote from: Crimson Wizard on Mon 14/06/2010 15:42:51
Anian, it wasn't a question of programming, at all, it was a question of gameplay.

Yes it is,

No, it wasn't. Please don't tell me what MY question means :P

No, you misunderstand me. Sorry, I wasn't expressing myself clearly. I meant to agree with you that far. Yes, it is [a question of gameplay, and not one of programming].

Quote
Quote from: Trumgottist on Mon 14/06/2010 17:03:52
Use a different walk animation, or play a different kind of music to let the player know that something is about to happen. Build the tension.
Well, above I was speaking about the case when you do not wish player to predict something...

And I was questioning if that's the best way to do it. It is of course difficult to discuss this so abstractly, but I'm having difficulty seeing the problem. Is an anticipation half a second ahead of an event really a problem? Maybe it's better to make it an opportunity!

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