London Riots - OR - What's your favourite thing about Hitler?

[WHAM]

@Bror_Jon
So basically what you are saying is: we should only punish criminals if they are ok with it, and even then not too hard, so we don't hurt their feelings. In your perfect world, what happens to criminals? Rioters? We just ask them nicely to stop breaking the law and they do it? We put them in prison, where we the taxpayers pay for their clothes, food, housing and well-being, and then after a while they get to come back for a second round?

I'm sorry, I know I'm ranting, but I'm just enraged by how blind people can be when it comes to handling crime.

[Calin Leafshade]

So what's your solution?

Fuck it and shoot them?

[Bror_Jon]

@WHAM
No, that is not what I am saying. I do not believe it is right to punish them. They ought to be rehabilitated (criminal-care as we call it here in Sweden). Which might include jail time depending on how sever the crime or their problems are. But jail should be used to make them unable to harm others, not used as a means to harm them.

Tax-money isn't that high of a price for fixing these problems (it's the rich that ought to be taxed anyway).

People who come back to jail is an obvious sign that the system isn't working properly, but I do not believe harsher sentences is the right way to go. The problem is much bigger then that. It's about well-fair of people in general. Education, getting help early, parents and so on.

In short:
Rehabilitate offenders, fix underlying problem.

PS: I also want to add, that these people might not be morally responsible, even though they are doing morally wrong.

I'm sorry, I know I'm ranting, but I'm just enraged by how blind people can be when it comes to handling crime.

Ohh, it's quite all right. I know what you mean. 

[WHAM]

@Calin: No need to shoot them, make use of them. See my earlier post on the Roman colosseums and such. I wasn't really joking there...

[Calin Leafshade]

I'm sorry... are you *actually* suggesting that we take petty criminals like looters and put them in fights to entertain the masses.

Have you lost your goddamn mind?

[WHAM]

I could say a lot of things, but perhaps it is best I keep the rest to myself for now. so as to not cause more negative response. My view on the matter has already been made abundantly clear.

Actually I think I said a few pages ago that I would leave this thread alone... Hmmm? Guess I just don't know when to stop. Let me try that again...

[veryweirdguy]

I'm just enraged by how blind people can be when it comes to handling crime.

See my earlier post on the Roman colosseums and such. I wasn't really joking there...

Of course, this is the obvious solution.

A couple of friends went through a mild shoplifting phase in high school. It's a shame they're now contributing to society as adults rather than forced to fight for the amusement of others.

[WHAM]

EDIT: written in hurry, accidental boldification corrected

INCOMING TIRADE FROM AN IDEALIST AND A WOULD-BE WORLD SAVER - BE WARNED

No... You see, this is the issue. Perhaps I haven't been clear enough (yes, I just couldn't stay away after that one VWG).

Petty crime: shoplifting for small value, speeding on the road, urinating in public etc
> Petty Punishment: Monetary fines, public service (ie. slavery on a small scale)
> On repeated offense: escalation to hard crime status due to person's inability to "take a f***'n hint"

Hard crime: Participating in large-scale events such as major riots, looting, destruction of property FOR NO BETTER REASON THAN "Hey, who'se going to stop us?" / cheating others for large sums of money (tens of thousands of @), rape, murder etc
> Hard Punishment: removal of human rights / citizenship permanently, forced hard labour, choise between entertainment sentence or death sentence

No, VWG, I don't believe in ALL crime being punished by being thrown to the lions (this sentence was not 100% literal, we can replace lions with ROBOTS for maximum entertainment in the future), but in my perfect imaginary world, hard-class criminals are given a choise: spend rest of your life in prison, with the requirement that you must either participate in blood-sport or hard labour, which will offset your cost to society either through revenue or work results, or life-termination.

Prisons are made self-sustained and they are a minimalistic drain on tax money, since the inmates have to do their part in keeping the installation funded (in a far greater scale than today). All inmates are also branded with visible permanent facial markings, to minimize likelyhood of successful escape from the prison system. If you attempt escape, you automatically get transferred to death row = they will not even drag you back to jail, but will place a 9mm copper tranquilizer inside your skull.

[LRH]

It...still sounds crazy to me, WHAM. Punishing people so severely on first offenses (referring to rioters, and other members of this "hard" crime status) doesn't really give them the chance to rectify whatever they've done wrong. In your imaginary society, I feel the main deterrent to any crime would be pure fear and nothing else. It's a deterrent, sure, but one I find pretty undesirable. I would always prefer a strict *finite* (unless the conditions are extreme, as in a the case of a murderer, etc.) punishment followed by some sort of counseling to give those who have done wrong a chance to make up for their misdeeds. This can help to establish a good moral compass.

I like the way things are in modern society. I don't pirate software because I feel it would be wrong to do so, not because I'm terrified that if I did, the swat team would crash through my windows at 3 AM and beat the shit out of me.

There's also the problem of where and how the line is drawn, and what qualifies one for being put to death or slavery until death. That's something else entirely, though.

As far as criminals fighting for our entertainment, I think it's simply barbaric. I believe lawful punishment needs to have realistic and humane bounds.

[WHAM]

I don't pirate software because I feel it would be wrong to do so, not because I'm terrified that if I did, the swat team would crash through my windows at 3 AM and beat the shit out of me.

Let me correct that for you: "I don't pirate software because I either have rich family or have a proper job, and can AFFORD to buy the software I need, just like I can affor to buy the TV I want. However, other people who are too young to have jobs, or are too lazy to get one, pirate software and loot TV's during riots, because they have nothing to fear from doing so. They break the law because: 'Hey, why not?'"

The fact that there are good people who obey the law, only reinforces the fact that those who do not conform and those who do break the law "just 'cause", need to be put the fear of the law into them, as we can all see how well these puny and pathetic punishments the laws of our current society hands out are working:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CdItaPoMjM4

Yeah, that guy really should just get a little fine and a pat on the head with an encouraging "Heeeey, you shouldn't do that. It's wrong you know! Oh I understand, your clothes look like you are poor and needy so you probably had a good reason for that, off you go, back home."

(*watches video again* : HULK SMASH PUNY HUMAN SKULL!!! RAAAAWR!!!)

[kconan]

  I've been checking this thread only to hear more about WHAMland.

[WHAM]

  I've been checking this thread only to hear more about WHAMland.

I fear people will start to get peeved at me for hijacking this  thread so effectively.
Maybe I should just write a book! Or even better: do a GAME which is a commentary on the goods and bads of modern society when compared to my personal utopia. Hmmm...

[InCreator]

Dunno. If world ends at 2012 and we're all savage, dystopian remnants of human society, WHAM would make a perfect leader.  
That, or many leaders before 17th century... when - if I remember correctly, brits rioted also and turned world around... and when British (and French) industrial revolution and urbanization actually started this restless lower class of poor industry workers, which produced skinheads, punk music, chavs and whatnot... all kinds of extremist left-wing movements... Till today when those people are still burning cars. So do French evey now and then. Maybe it's 300-year legacy and we're still seeing a bit of something that started with beheading Charles I Stuart?

[Tuomas]

So, what's up with the riots? It's all done by now, right?

[Atelier]

Yep. They inevitably finished and after a brief post-mortem by the media I haven't heard much more about them.

[Khris]

Hey, a thread about Judge Dredd! Oh, wait.

[Grim]

...do a GAME which is a commentary on the goods and bads of modern society when compared to my personal utopia. Hmmm...

I'd play it. Damn, I'd even make it with you! I'm on the same page as you regarding the whole issue and I can't understand why everyone's being so bloody soft!

  These criminals need a good kick up the arse to finally wake up. If I can obide the law and work hard every day, why should I feel my family is threatened by those who don't give a shit about anything and anyone? Good for you WHAM for expressing your views. Like I said before , I couldn't agree more.

[ddq]

I challenge all you crazy people to a game of quake 3. Winner gets to decide what to do with the rioters. If you win, you get to treat them like animals and if we win, we treat them like human beings. Me and calin will pwn/frag your asses.

[NsMn]

Is it very human to use violence against innocent people and their posessions without a real reason?

[Ali]

Yes.