Ghostly experiences (ooohh scarrrryyyy)

Started by Mouth for war, Fri 20/01/2012 18:45:17

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Stupot

#20
Me, my sister and friends used to scare ourselves shitless as youngsters... Mum would let us camp in the back garden and we'd tell ghost stories, and a couple of times even made our own makeshift Ouija boards and try to 'communicate' with ghosts.

Also we'd play these creepy role playing games where you all hold hands and close your eyes and take turns to narrate a particular situation such as walking into a haunted house and walking up the creepy stairs counting as you go and skipping out step number 13, otherwise you'd get trapped in the house and won't be able to open your eyes again.  It was nearly always the same story, and it would invariably involve an old lady called Granny Nettle, who would turn out to be evil and when you got too scared you had to run away from her, run down the stairs, counting backwards, skipping 13, and shut the door behind you.  If you failed to do this before she caught you, you would never be able to open your eyes again.  And you weren't allowed to open your eyes before leaving the imaginary house, otherwise you would go insane.

Needless to say, that led to some pretty fucking scary sleepovers... and they were the best days of my life.  Now I'm boring :(

Noctambulo

My story is pretty simple: I was alone at my house, like 7 - 8 pm, watching TV -a comedy, by the way- when I heard someone (a leprechaun, Spummy?) knocking at the door of my room. I turned off the tv, open the door, searched the house, but nothing. I returned to my room, closed the door, and about 10 mins later, it happened again. And the TV was off this time.

I didn't get scared at all, but it intrigued me. In fact, still does, as I can't see any "normal" explanation to it.



Eggie

I've always been sceptical of "I know what I saw" stories because, well frankly "No you fucking don't" but it doesn't stop me from being incredibly fascinated with all this stuff.
I can't believe in ghosts, at all. For one, it reeks of wishful thinking about our own mortality and two, ghosts are scary but compared to the idea that our own brains can fail us and put bullshit ideas in our heads it's obviously a preferable idea. I've never had a supernatural experience,and on one level it makes me feel like some big superior champion of science and reason and on another it just makes me sad. On some level I think I almost want my beliefs to be wrong; I want to be scared shitless by something that isn't my own frail, hormone-soaked, cancer-susceptible, one wrong thought away from crazy life-vessel malfunctioning in some way... And I'm always looking. And I love hearing other people's ghost stories and the further away I am from figuring out a rational explanation the better.

But I still can't believe in it. It sucks.

Calin Leafshade

I'm with the hardcore skeptics. It's all just about suggestable minds.

Humans are prone to attribute agency to anything. It's just part of our flight or fight mechanism. You see a weird shadow on a wall, you assume its a monster(predator), you run away, you live another day. There's no evolutionary pressure to breed out that behaviour. An overactive imagination that saves you from a panther 1 time out of 1000 is doing it's job.

It's exactly the same reason we are prone to believe in deities. Human's just can't cope very well with the idea of coincidence.

ddq

I farted and it turned into a demon but it was actually my ex-wife.

True story.

Dualnames

This is not a ghost story.

This is one of the fucking amazing coincidences. Sometimes I happen to think of something really random, and then it occurs. I know, but yeah. So here's the very best one.

4 years ago, we were with my folks on the car listening to some obscene cassette, then a song that I've only heard once and liked none, played on the cassette. Air supply - even the nights are better. Anyhow a song amazingly unheard of, in Greece.

So 2 years later, I am working with my dad in the middle of the summer, and i remember my vacation from 2 years ago, and that song plays in my head all day. From 8 to 12. At 12 I go to the car, and open up the radio. That song plays. The odds are amazingly impossible.
Worked on Strangeland, Primordia, Hob's Barrow, The Cat Lady, Mage's Initiation, Until I Have You, Downfall, Hunie Pop, and every game in the Wadjet Eye Games catalogue (porting)

miguel

Quote from: ddq on Sat 21/01/2012 07:17:11
I farted and it turned into a demon but it was actually my ex-wife.

True story.

Do you believe farts are related to demons? Can you prove that? That would explain the windy trace ghosts leave when hoovering around the house...
Working on a RON game!!!!!

m0ds

QuoteThat would explain the windy trace ghosts leave when hoovering around the house...

I'd be quite happy for ghosts to exist and come and hoover my house... Saves a bit of effort. Plus they can't demand pay it would fall right through their hands  :=

Darth Mandarb

Quote from: Dualnames on Sat 21/01/2012 11:14:35Sometimes I happen to think of something really random, and then it occurs.

I do this quite regularly.

Last week I randomly had this thought about this actress I had a major crush on back in the 90s named Shevonne Durkin.  I looked her up on IMDB to see if she'd done much since (she hasn't).  My friend Kevin and I used to drool over her back in the day.  Then, yesterday, he sends me an email out the blue in remembrance of her.

A few years back my brother and I were reminiscing about the past and girls we'd ... well ... known.  We mentioned this one woman and were trying to remember her name.  We finally came up with it.  It had been over 15 years since we'd even thought of her.  Two days later she friend requested me on facebook.

My dad and I were working on my bathroom renovation a few months ago.  We started talking about this boat show we'd gone to in Orlando about 12 years ago and mentioned a guy we'd ran into that we knew and how he was the father of this girl I'd gone to highshool with.  The next day she friend requested me on facebook.

Just a few examples.  Again, all could be wild coincidence in a rapidly shrinking world but with defying odds like this I really should start thinking of the lottery numbers...

Noctambulo

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Sat 21/01/2012 06:59:48
I'm with the hardcore skeptics. It's all just about suggestable minds.

Ok. Pretty fair. But...how would you explain my experience?

Darth Mandarb

One of my favorite aspects of the human brain is its ability to "fill in the blanks".  This is extremely helpful (evolutionary wise) as it is mechanism that can help with creativity, logic, reasoning and deduction.  Ungar has big hole in head shaped like mammoth horn ... fill in the blanks, he was killed by a mammoth; don't stand too close to mammoths.  And throughout history this ability has led to countless innovations in science and technology (and even just survival) where filling the blanks leads to intuitive leaps that wouldn't be made if this ability wasn't there.

But, like most things, it does have a dark side!  It can lead to misinterpretations (ghost stories) and even false memories.  I am 100% fully willing to admit that my remembered dream of the plane crash might have been slightly different than I expressed but when I saw the news story about Alaska Air's crash my mind "filled in the blanks" and my memory of the dream was "updated" to match the details of the real event.  The worst part about it is that I will never know because, now, the memory of the dream is as I expressed it; matching the details of the real event almost perfectly.

Again... I'm naturally skeptical and tend to agree with the hard-line skeptics out there (I'm lookin' at you Leafshade!!)  But I still accept that there are things that cannot be attributed to scientific or rational explanation!

Ponch

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 21/01/2012 15:52:08
One of my favorite aspects of the human brain is its ability to "fill in the blanks".  This is extremely helpful (evolutionary wise)... But, like most things, it does have a dark side!

So you're telling me that Elvis isn't really trying to send me messages through the mildew on my shower curtain? Ha! How else can you explain why it looks exactly like him! (Or possibly Fred Flintstone). You can't, Darth! Mildew is real. It exists! And it looks (sort of) exactly like Elvis. Therefore, SCIENCE!

brb. The King wants another peanut butter and banana sandwich.  8)

Ali

Quote from: Noctambulo on Sat 21/01/2012 15:04:31
Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Sat 21/01/2012 06:59:48
I'm with the hardcore skeptics. It's all just about suggestable minds.

Ok. Pretty fair. But...how would you explain my experience?

You can't beat a good ghost story, but I'm firmly with the rationalists.

We don't need to come up with a conclusive explanation for the knocks you heard to demonstrate that it's unlikely to be a ghost. The supernatural explanation presupposes the existence of a soul and afterlife of sorts for which we have no other evidence. That makes it very unlikely.

It's much more likely someone was knocking as a joke, wood was creaking because of contraction, pipes were rattling, or you were just wrong.

Some creepy stories though guys!

Calin Leafshade

The problem with the supernatural is that it is, by definition, always the least likely explination. That is the nature of the *super*natural.

If I were sat on my sofa drinking a jack and coke and the {Lord Almighty,Slimer from Ghostbusters,The Grey Lady} themself walked through the door and said hi I *still* wouldnt believe because schizeophrenia or an anyeruism or being punk'd is infinitely more likely.

In terms of the evidence record, the supernatural has a pretty piss poor record.

Noctambulo

#34
Quote from: Ali on Sat 21/01/2012 16:24:20You can't beat a good ghost story, but I'm firmly with the rationalists.

We don't need to come up with a conclusive explanation for the knocks you heard to demonstrate that it's unlikely to be a ghost. The supernatural explanation presupposes the existence of a soul and afterlife of sorts for which we have no other evidence. That makes it very unlikely.

It's much more likely someone was knocking as a joke, wood was creaking because of contraction, pipes were rattling, or you were just wrong.

Again: I was ALONE in the house, And I'm pretty sure to be capable to notice the difference between wood cracking, pipes rattling and knocking a door -twice-.

By the way, I consider myself a rationalist. In fact, to me the religious fanatics and the "hardcore skeptics" are the same: People who assume their beliefs about the "supernatural" are facts.

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Sat 21/01/2012 16:33:26
The problem with the supernatural is that it is, by definition, always the least likely explination. That is the nature of the *super*natural.

If I were sat on my sofa drinking a jack and coke and the {Lord Almighty,Slimer from Ghostbusters,The Grey Lady} themself walked through the door and said hi I *still* wouldnt believe because schizeophrenia or an anyeruism or being punk'd is infinitely more likely.

In terms of the evidence record, the supernatural has a pretty piss poor record.

In other words: People who don't think like you -about an experience you HAVE NOT lived-, are either a mental case or sick... Right?

Calin Leafshade

The only belief i have about the supernatural is that it doesnt exist. This is not because I know either way but simply because there is no credible evidence to the contrary.

Anian

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Sat 21/01/2012 14:09:02
Just a few examples.  Again, all could be wild coincidence in a rapidly shrinking world but with defying odds like this I really should start thinking of the lottery numbers...
I wouldn't hold my breath for number One to try adding me on facebook, we all know that One is the loneliest number. Nine has been missing in aciton for a while now as well.
I don't want the world, I just want your half

Noctambulo

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Sat 21/01/2012 16:47:33
The only belief i have about the supernatural is that it doesnt exist. This is not because I know either way but simply because there is no credible evidence to the contrary.

THAT is YOUR belief. You don't have evidence that proves YOUR point ;)

Remember: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"

Calin Leafshade

From a socratic perspective my belief is the more rational. If you'd like to abandon socratic reasoning then feel free to do so but you'll end up in a funny place with unicorns and magic tricks.

I am of the opinion (and theists especially dislike this) that the null position is one of disbelief. When considering any proposition I start out with the belief that it is not true. This protects me from wishful thinking and personal bias. If someone tells me they saw a ghost I say fine, show me some credible evidence. If they cannot do so then I dismiss their claim. This is of variable effect of course. The more extraordinary the claim the more extraordinary the evidence would have to be. I would not require evidence if someone told me they had eaten a nice sandwich.

If someone cannot present evidence it does not mean their claim false (absence of evidence) but I will work on the assumption that it is. Otherwise I'm just guessing.

If you take the alternative approach and decide that you believe everything by default until shown otherwise then you automatically live in a world with astrology, tarot cards, witches, elves (which are totally real) and goblins which is, of course, absurd.

Finally, just because I can't explain your experience doesnt mean i ascribe it to the supernatural. I can't explain any number of Penn & Teller or Derren Brown tricks but I dont assume them to be supernatural just because I personally cannot explain them.

Khris

Quote from: Noctambulo on Sat 21/01/2012 16:42:58In fact, to me the religious fanatics and the "hardcore skeptics" are the same: People who assume their beliefs about the "supernatural" are facts.
There's a major difference though. Believing in a specific set of supernatural "facts" without evidence is a completely different thing from dismissing a proposition due to absence of evidence.
You're basically saying that it is wrong to dismiss the existence of Santa Claus as long as there is a teeny-tiny bit of unexplained circumstance anywhere regarding the delivery of all the worlds presents.

Edit:
QuoteRemember: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
I'm sorry, that's textbook religious apologetics.
Absence of evidence IS INDEED evidence of absence, IF existence is expected to produce evidence.
If person A claims they own a cat and person B, standing in their house, can't see the cat anywhere, there's really not much that can be said or done. Unless of course there's also no cat food, no cat toys, no cat hair, no scratching post, no litter box and not any other sign of there ever living a cat in the house.
In that case, person B is entirely justified to dismiss person A's claim about owning a cat, UNTIL proven otherwise.

If you don't accept that, well, then there's really no way to move forward.

Just be clear that calling "hardcore" skeptics as irrational as fundamentalists will draw their ire simply because they didn't arrive at their position by not thinking.

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