Icey games' thread

Started by Icey, Mon 05/03/2012 02:58:23

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Khris

Cuiki:
Now, now, after all I have used Scale, Warp AND Liquify. That has to count for something ;)

Seriously though, I didn't want to say that his pic is a turd and I made ice cream out of it, although in hindsight I must admit it very much sounds that way. I merely wanted to point out that the "O! M! G! How the fuck did I get those proportions shot to hell THAT badly"-part was missing in his reply. And I won't give up on him in that regard; at some point he will develop the capacity for self-criticism. It's just gonna take a lot longer than I'd hoped.

Cuiki

Fair enough. :P

And I do admit I burst out laughing when I saw that hidden pic. It was just totally unexpected.
Hmm..it's kinda steep. But with a sled I can slide down the slope.

Khris

I didn't use a reference btw. But I didn't do the edit to show off or anything like that; it just baffled me how one cannot see how off the original is, regardless of artistic talent.

Quote from: icey games on Mon 18/02/2013 21:02:52I'm on a tight schedule and I need to have this finished by the end of this month so I can go into development phase on the real game
This is your own schedule; it's not like a publisher has forced a deadline onto you. As has already been said, getting things done isn't your problem. Getting things done that aren't broken in some way is. Limiting yourself like that when it comes to the one thing that makes or breaks your game isn't the way to go.

QuoteThe way I work on things doesn't really allow me to go back and make the best improvements yet, it's usually best for me to just start all over.
And right there is the root of the problem. The only question is, why not change the way you work if you keep failing?

Icey

Well it's school/work that's in the way. But yes it is something that I did force on me.

I'm trying to fix the way I work, it may not seem like it but I really am. It's sorta hard as hell sometimes but I assure I'm trying.

Cuiki

Quote from: Khris on Mon 18/02/2013 22:13:39
I didn't use a reference btw. But I didn't do the edit to show off or anything like that; it just baffled me how one cannot see how off the original is, regardless of artistic talent.
Yeah, I gathered that much, I was just trying to be funny. :P Though I must say the original face (disregarding the forehead) didn't really seem that off to me at all..
Hmm..it's kinda steep. But with a sled I can slide down the slope.

Khris

#445
Quote from: icey games on Mon 18/02/2013 22:17:31I'm trying to fix the way I work, it may not seem like it but I really am.
No you aren't, you're drawing pointless* concept art for a broken game when what you should be doing is learning how to program.
You're like a baker who keeps on baking cake after cake, and manages to improve the icing slightly each time. The problem is, there's still nobody who want's** to eat the cake, because it tastes bad. Go learn how to make proper dough, goddammit.

* pointless in the sense that nobody else works on this but you
** wants

LimpingFish

Why. Do. I. Always. Open. This. Thread?
Steam: LimpingFish
PSN: LFishRoller
XB: TheActualLimpingFish
Spotify: LimpingFish

Ponch

Quote from: LimpingFish on Tue 19/02/2013 03:39:48
Why. Do. I. Always. Open. This. Thread?
For the same reason I do: It's the most entertaining thread in the entire forums.  :cheesy:

miguel

QuoteNow before I finished the picture one thing I didn't like was the top of the head. He wasn't supposed to have hair and it wasn't supposed to be him. So that's another reason why it's messed up

Okay, that makes perfect sense.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Icey

Why you no like my dough?



One day I'll find the Ultimate dough, then I'll become victorious, no?
*Also I'm not always working on a game by myself. Sometimes I work with other artist in my Team, yep I have a team. Some do monsters and others do characters.*

Quote from: miguel on Tue 19/02/2013 08:47:51
QuoteNow before I finished the picture one thing I didn't like was the top of the head. He wasn't supposed to have hair and it wasn't supposed to be him. So that's another reason why it's messed up

Okay, that makes perfect sense.

I know that sarcasm, but let break it down like this. I was planning on drawing an old man based of his first design I quickly drew up before. While drawing the old man I sorta a added a few touches that accidentally made him not look him. I kept going until he just didn't look like the old man anymore but another character. He looked evil already so I just turned him into the main baddy of the game which was someone that I needed anyways.

If that isn't clear enough for anyone then I don't what else I could say before it ends up just sound like an excuse or some lie. :/

Anywho...what else there to discuss?...

veryweirdguy

Some friendly advice:

Don't draw by copying other art, if you use reference take it from real life objects (life drawing is best, but photos will do in a pinch). Copying other art only ends up as a poor imitation of someone else's work - drawing from life allows you to develop your own style!

Eric

#451
Icey, you are the Rob Liefeld of Adventure Game Studio, and the reason is what veryweirdguy mentions above: you're copying copies, extremifying their extremities. Keep doing that, and your art will become a simulacrum, faces that are recognizable only as attempts at specific anime or FF characters, and not looking enough like real people that we understand them as characters.

Take some time, a week, a month, and stop replicating. Sit down and draw some real people. Get some anatomy books. Find a life drawing class to attend. Before you draw a head of any kind, you need to know that the eyes come at roughly the halfway point between the crown and the chin. You're skipping straight to style without substance. Do some underdrawing. Use a photostat blue, or just a blue colored pencil, to lay the basics down first. Make sure your anatomy is right. Then add on the style, the character, the Iciness.

I type all of this knowing you'll probably ignore it. But maybe don't ignore it, and take some advice!   

Icey

Why does everyone think I'm ignoring there post -.-

hummm...I've been trying to draw real peoples faces, I do this a lot in school. I thought that by doing so it would increase my skills with drawings things like faces. It's not that it doesn't work but I spend most of my time drawing my usual anime stuff. And I know that I never said it here but my plan was to follow along the FF style then branch off and move onward from there. The style is cool but has some flaws that I'm not a big fan of. I'm not looking for a style that's perfect but I do use references from other art work when I need it.

Now this doesn't mean I'm not taking no ones advice, I'm just sharing my explanation. But what your asking me to do is something that I'll have to give a shot at when I get enough time like summer break for example.

Eric

FYI, this is why people think you ignore their advice:

Quote from: IceyIt's not that it doesn't work but I spend most of my time drawing my usual anime stuff.

Basically, what you're saying is, "Yes, doing this would make my art better, but fudge it. Not interested."

The problem is that, when you look at and copy other peoples' styles of art, you don't get the basics. It's like building a house where you didn't lay a foundation, but instead focused really hard on the color of the shingles on the roof, so they'd look like your neighbor's. It might make you happy to have the same shingles, but your house fell down.

With art, you might say, for instance, "Oh, how do they draw eyes in FF? How do they draw hair in FF?" You never ask, "What does a human being look like, and how are they replicating that anatomy through a style all their own? And why does that style work?"

Everyone who draws well in a cartoony style can also do a basic photo-realism style, because you have to learn to draw before you can learn to cartoon. That's why you start art school with basic classes, and they don't let you move on until you get the basics down. You don't have the basics down. For your goals, this is what you need to do:

1. Learn the basic human form.
2. Learn how that form is done in FF style.
3. Modify that style for your own.

This is what you're trying to do:

1. Learn the FF form.
2. Modify the FF form for your own.

You can't skip step one. Otherwise, you wind up with eyes in the middle of your foreheads, and you don't recognize why that's happening. Your house falls down. Even the simplest of anime or cartooning styles of drawing people is based on the fact that people are a collection of bones, muscle, connective tissues and skin. You need to know the basics of how those things work together and how they're proportioned to each other. Especially as I've learned, if you plan to animate them.

You can look in my art thread to see all of my wrong steps. I've left them all there. I've gotten a metric ton of good, free advice from folks here, and I do my best to be open to it. There's a danger in, when you make things like this, being too close to it to be able to see it how others do. Again, you're on the ladder thinking the shingles look great, and we're across the street cringing for the time when the building inspector comes by.

Icey

Ok fair enough, I don't know when but I'll spend a month practicing the basic stuff and show it off here from time to time. I can't take a art class cause my current school doesn't have one and nobody knows how to draw in there besides me(I'm not gassing myself but just point out truth)

Anywho, I will give this a try before the end of the year. Hopefully I do get something out of it. If not then at least I can say I tried. :D

Eric

No art classes, you say? These classic books are a good start, and they're free: http://www.alexhays.com/loomis/

Once you move on from Loomis, try George Bridgeman: http://drawingbooks.org/bridgman1/index.html

Ghost

Since you're interested in comics, "Understanding Comics" by Scott McCloud is a great read, too. I can't recommend it highly enough- it will not teach you anything about the actual drawing, but how to make the medium work. It's a one-of-a-kind book.

veryweirdguy

Oh man, when I was 16 or so I gobbled those Loomis books up. I still use things from them! They are so useful.

Understanding Comics is amazing, as well! These are good tips.

zabnat

Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9PUDtVcWhY
The most important thing is the boring part at the beginning. The circle and the helper lines.

Eric

Quote from: veryweirdguy on Tue 19/02/2013 19:21:14
Oh man, when I was 16 or so I gobbled those Loomis books up. I still use things from them! They are so useful.

I get the feeling that everyone who draws either learned from Loomis or learned from someone who learned from Loomis.

I treble the Understanding Comics recommendation. It's not just good for comics, but for any form of visual storytelling.

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