Moderator Announcement: Multiple Forum Accounts

Started by Snarky, Wed 05/09/2012 20:28:03

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Snarky

It has come to the moderators' attention that some forum members have created multiple accounts, and are posting from these aliases in order to bump their own threads and make it seem like people are more interested in them, "astroturf" the comments with praise for their own games, add apparent backup in forum discussions, or even vote multiple times in forum contests or in the games database. Others have used alternate accounts to troll and attack other members anonymously.

It should go without saying that such behavior is unacceptable.

This is not something we have paid much attention to previously, but we do have the tools to check it fairly easily. (There are ways to fool the system, of course, but you'd have to be quite careful and disciplined to make sure you don't leave any trace.) We will be keeping an eye out in the future, and we are already aware of several members who are guilty of this.

We haven't had an explicit rule against it in the past, and in some cases there may be legitimate reasons to keep multiple accounts. However, for the future, if you are going to be posting from different accounts, you will have to get permission from a moderator first, and in most cases you'll be required to publicly declare which accounts belong to you. (For convenience, the same goes if multiple people in the same household are posting to AGS: don't pretend on the forums that you don't know each other in real life.)

So if you have used several accounts in order to seem like you are multiple people, to skirt forum rules (e.g. against double-posting), to keep certain posts from being associated with your forum identity, or for any other purpose that could be considered ethically questionable, turn yourself in! PM a moderator with a list of the accounts you control. We will decide how to deal with it on a case-by-case basis depending on the apparent intent. Do NOT now go back and delete or edit old posts on your own. We'll consider this destruction of evidence and proof of dishonest intent.

Members who fail to come clean will face more severe sanctions.

Babar

The ultimate Professional Amateur

Now, with his very own game: Alien Time Zone

SSH

Sorely tempted to create some sockpuppets just to make joke replies to this thread...
12

Atelier

So one would need to get permission for every post they make from a different account, irrespective of whether the post is being used for bumping, praising, voting etc for the parent account? This must be the case because nobody is stupid enough to ask permission to post a vote for themselves.

Kweepa

Name and shame!
We're all part of this forum. It would be nice to know who we're talking to.
Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

Calin Leafshade

#5
I have a confession to make.

I am dualnames.

Quote from: Kweepa on Thu 06/09/2012 00:47:49
Name and shame!
We're all part of this forum. It would be nice to know who we're talking to.

A cursory glance of the GiP and CG boards makes it pretty obvious. For shame.

Corby

QuoteA cursory glance of the GiP and CG boards makes it pretty obvious. For shame.

I think I've figured it out as well.   8-0

Baron

I become Ponch when the sun sets.  Hssssssssss!

monkey0506


Khris

Wow, that's quite pathetic.
Anybody got a few links maybe? Even after lots of cursory glances, I didn't really see anything that hit me. I'm really curious now though.

Oh, yeah, I used to also post as "Yahtzee" btw.

Calin Leafshade

Look for game threads with unfamiliar posters who have posted almost soley on those threads.

Chicky

heh, i think i've got it. That was fun :=

Also a bit sad.

kconan

  I second the name and shame.  Yea, there is one blatently obvious case in CG section.

Eric

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Thu 06/09/2012 01:49:38
Look for game threads with unfamiliar posters who have posted almost soley on those threads.

Might be worth naming and shaming at this point so we don't start hunting witches.

LimpingFish

Once you know what to look for, it becomes blatantly apparent. Sad indeed.

Quote from: Eric on Thu 06/09/2012 02:43:41
Might be worth naming and shaming at this point so we don't start hunting witches.

As far as I can tell, we won't be naming and shaming. The mods are definitely going to address it, though.

In my opinion, people should NOT openly speculate usernames in public. Thanks. :)
Steam: LimpingFish
PSN: LFishRoller
XB: TheActualLimpingFish
Spotify: LimpingFish

Eric

Quote from: LimpingFish on Thu 06/09/2012 02:54:02
Once you know what to look for, it becomes blatantly apparent. Sad indeed.

I'm pretty sure I eventually, sadly, figured it out. But my first guess, based on Calin's clue, was someone who got massive press elsewhere that led one-time posters to their thread. I agree we shouldn't be speculating in public, but maybe it's best if we don't speculate in private either!

ddq

Quote from: LimpingFish on Thu 06/09/2012 02:54:02
In my opinion, people should NOT openly speculate usernames in public. Thanks. :)
IT WAS DUALNAMES DUALNAMES DID IT IN THE KITCHEN WITH THE CANDLESTICK

I will admit that I at one point considered releasing one of my particularly awful "games" (no points for guessing which) under an alias. Considering the quality of the finished product... yeesh.

Khris

Oh my, I guess I found it, too. Funny. And also sad. But still funny, in a sad way.

ThreeOhFour

I nearly considered making a second account and making different games but with my drawing style, but then icey came along and so I didn't have to :D

KodiakBehr

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Thu 06/09/2012 01:49:38
Look for game threads with unfamiliar posters who have posted almost soley on those threads.

Okay, okay...so NOBODY wished me a happy birthday!  Are you happy now?

Kweepa

Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

Dualnames

There was one time, when people nicknamed themselves after me and bowed down to my presence. Alas those days are passed. In the meantime, while this is quite amazing to comprehend, I'm done trolling (which explains my latest disappearance), and attempts to bring me back there, will be utterly ignored. Now, on the important issue, I like that we're all taking this on the fine side, but this is a serious matter. So if you've got nothing serious to contribute, don't make a joke out of this.
Worked on Strangeland, Primordia, Hob's Barrow, The Cat Lady, Mage's Initiation, Until I Have You, Downfall, Hunie Pop, and every game in the Wadjet Eye Games catalogue (porting)

ddq

Quote from: Dualnames on Thu 06/09/2012 05:33:21So if you've got nothing serious to contribute, don't make a joke out of this.

Ironic for a post that contributes nothing to the discussion at hand. Wait, now I have to contribute, lest I appear a hypocrite!

Um... sockpuppet accounts are... bad?

Snarky

I understand the desire for a "name-and-shame". The moderators are discussing appropriate measures. Please don't speculate publicly, even without naming names.

If you do have a suspicion against some member, you can PM me to bring it to our attention. (I won't be able to respond to you directly, though.)

Quote from: Atelier on Wed 05/09/2012 21:22:52
So one would need to get permission for every post they make from a different account, irrespective of whether the post is being used for bumping, praising, voting etc for the parent account? This must be the case because nobody is stupid enough to ask permission to post a vote for themselves.

Not for every post, but for the account itself. So you'd PM a mod saying something like "I'm making an erotic My Little Pony game, but I'm a bit embarrassed about it and would like to keep my forum name out of it. Can I set up another account just for this game?" And we would say "OK, just make sure you only post with one of your accounts to any particular thread." Or if a commercial developer wanted to discuss politics without getting the company dragged into a controversial topic, or something like that. There could be a number of situations where a second account is warranted, but for the future we want to know about them in advance, so we can verify that they're on the up-and-up.

You, for example, have a second "MAGS Host" account. That's fine, since it's for a legitimate purpose and you disclose that it's you in the personal text. However, if anyone plans to set something similar up in the future, we'd like a heads up.

cat

Oh. That's sad. I was kinda irritated by the sudden fandom but never thought that some like that could be behind it.

[Just changed my avatar to something more appropriate for the situation. It is from a coloring ball were I got last place, so no cheating involved :P]

veryweirdguy

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 06/09/2012 08:47:57
"I'm making an erotic My Little Pony game, but I'm a bit embarrassed about it and would like to keep my forum name out of it. Can I set up another account just for this game?"

Embarrassed?

bearish

A few months ago I created an account, forgot both user and pass, and I feel dumb.

Andail

#27
Just to reiterate; there are perfectly harmless and legitimate reasons to have a second account. You may wish to debate sensitive issues in gen-gen, or you could be working on a secret game and would like to be able to ask for technical support without ruining the surprise, etc.

Just so people don't think there's some sort of witch hunt going on.

However, when those multiple accounts are used repeatedly to bump your own threads, praise your own productions, and even vote on your own competition entries, then we're talking fraudulent behaviour. This is just common sense. It's beyond bad faith, it's downright creepy.

WHAM

I approve of this, and I approve the name 'n' shame -game as well.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: The Night Falls, a community roleplaying game

AnasAbdin

Allow me to say something and maybe get a little bit defensive.
My student (and a friend) in the forum PM-ed me about a Coloring Ball Announcement from a moderator. I PM-ed the moderator and got a shocking reply mentioning this thread.

First of all I have ONE single account in this forum and I've always been careful using it after learning that Chris Jones funds the forums by himself. I have always encouraged my fans to contact me through my email and not to over post with stupid meaningless rubbish. I can't control people though.

This forum means a lot to me in a personal level specially after making great friends. If someone is stupid enough to create multiple accounts in a forum that keeps track of the users' IPs; I think no one is stupid to risk losing great and talented friends. I have also received great support from the Beginner/Advanced technical forums members with amazing coding abilities that even me as a university teacher got stunned. I was never shy nor embarrassed to ask extremely stupid questions that show how a human mind can work in a funny dumb way!

Financially speaking, I wasn't intending to go commercial at all. I do not need to explain to anyone why I chose that way nor where the money I earned goes to, but if it gives comfort to anyone I did not spend a penny on myself nor my family earned from AGS. And statistically speaking, I sold very few copies through this forum. Because I already sent the game to everyone in it whom asked me through PM or email for a free copy (I have also edited EACH copy with a lovely personal signature-message before the introduction starts with each member's name e.g "This is specially dedicated to so and so with love…")
If you bought the game (whether from this forum or somewhere else) you already know how I work, and how much time I spend for each and every buyer. I sent many surveys asking different questions to my customers, also using some automated tracers from my blog showed me that The AGS Forums contributed in less than 3% of my -greatly unexpected- sales. Nevertheless, I love this forum and every single person in it. And after spending all the time and effort creating a game, childish methods of boosting and bumping up threads are way below me.

It saddens me to say this but if you guys don't have a place for me between you then I shall quietly leave you alone with no shame at all, only with pity.
And to my class students: keep on AGSing, I will :) And don't worry I won't expose your locations!

Snarky

I'm locking this thread for the time being to allow time for behind-the-scenes events to play out. Any members who have questions or concerns should contact me or one of the other mods through PM.

Andail

#31
Anas: That's all good and well, but please focus on what we're discussing here, and look at it from our perspective;
* There are around a dozen accounts with your exact IP
* They always show up in your threads (oftentimes exclusively in your threads) to bump them or give excessive praise
* They vote for your contributions in the competitions
* They even write about buying your game, and ask about shipping details
* They have given locations like Norway and other places in their profiles, despite sharing your IP

Even if these are all your students or coworkers, letting them support you in this manner is just weird. Some of your threads consist of only conversations between you and your students, which I assume is something you could handle in real life?

Remember that for most completed games, the time they get exposed on the front page, and the games' page database, is the only time in the limelight they get.

For the record, this doesn't only concern AnasAbdin, but other users as well.

Snarky

#32
Report on Suspected Abuse of Multiple Accounts by AnasAbdin

This is a compilation of facts and circumstances pertaining to the recent case of user AnasAbdin and accounts sharing his IP address. We the moderators present this report to the AGS community so that everyone can form their own opinion, and to prevent untrue rumours from spreading.

The following users have only ever posted from IP addresses also used by AnasAbdin:
SonnyBondsAtOnce
~TongueSplit~
redMatter
MattKatela
DSwan
UlfHartz
hyphen

The following users have used (frequently, in many cases) IP addresses used by AnasAbdin, as well as others in the same IP range:
bearish
Kimbra
PassionatePatty

Finally, one user (bryanwithaY) has registered and accessed the forum from these same IP addresses, but never actually posted.

A quick check will reveal that the above members post predominantly - often exclusively - in threads started by AnasAbdin, or other threads concerning his productions. This leads us to the strong suspicion that they are fake accounts set up and used by him in order to promote his games.

AnasAbdin has claimed that these accounts are his students and co-workers from his university, and that he for the most part was unaware of their identity. A PM sent from one of the other implicated accounts supports his version, but is written in a style strangely inconsistent with previous posts from that account. Without a full investigation into his life and workplace we cannot absolutely disprove this, but given the posting patterns and the contents of the posts, we are skeptical. In a number of cases, AnasAbdin and another of the accounts have posted from the same IP address within a few minutes of each other. For example, these posts from the time of the release of Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper were all made from the same IP:

PassionatePatty    Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 11:40:17
Kimbra             Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 10:46:22
AnasAbdin          Giving back to the forum            26 January 2012, 10:12:57
redMatter          Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 09:55:40
AnasAbdin          Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 08:52:05
Kimbra             Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 08:42:47
AnasAbdin          Re: [Released] Anastronaut          26 January 2012, 08:40:01
AnasAbdin          Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper        26 January 2012, 08:36:22


If you check the messages, you'll see that none of them acknowledge in any that they know each other from university, or that they are posting from the same location. In fact, they talk about getting email notifications or coming across the thread on the forums (and later ask about which online vendor to buy the game through). This is a pattern seen in other threads as well. The explanations offered by AnasAbdin do not account for these facts in a satisfactory manner.

For this reason, even if some of these accounts in fact do belong to AnasAbdin's students or co-workers, we still feel they have been deliberately and systematically deceptive about their real nature and purpose. We would anyway find it unethical for a teacher to use a group of his students to bolster his popularity, bump his threads, vote for him in forum competitions, and write positive reviews of his games on the games database, without ever even disclosing their offline connection to him. (In fact, some of the accounts seem to have actively tried to hide it. For example, some have set their locations to a variety of places far from where he tells us he is based.) It also appears to violate his university's code of conduct.

We have, nevertheless, offered AnasAbdin to set up a Skype conference with himself, a moderator and the student/co-worker behind any of the implicated accounts in order to rebut the suspicion that they do not exist as real people. He declined. (If any of the accounts do represent real people who wish to establish their identity and clear their reputations, they may contact the moderators over PM.)

AnasAbdin has at this point chosen to leave the community without fighting his case further. No moderator has prompted him to do so, and there is no ban in effect.

Given that we haven't had an explicit rule prohibiting such behaviors, we would like to ask the community for input on how we should proceed in the future. We wouldn't normally expect to make this big a deal of fake accounts, but we feel this has been going on for so long, and affected so many members, that some sort of closure is necessary. As previously mentioned, this is not the only case we are looking at, and further announcements may follow.

Edit: spelling correction

Calin Leafshade

I think the moderators did the right thing here.

It's important that we keep a level playing field here and doing something clandestine to upset that balance is something that needs to be stopped.

We should, however be wary of witchhunts and information like this should only be released if the moderators are certain of foul play.

straydogstrut

Quote from: Calin Leafshade on Sat 08/09/2012 20:32:10
We should, however be wary of witchhunts and information like this should only be released if the moderators are certain of foul play.

I agree.

I think it is important for the Mods to carry out investigations like these behind closed doors, giving the suspected culprit the chance to explain themselves, and only once they are found guilty or have declined to prove otherwise should a report be released publicly so that the community is aware and can remain vigilant against this kind of abuse.

Given the report set out above, it looks like the Mods have handled this one sensibly and I would encourage this approach again in future.

Anian

#35
As far as I've read up - Anas said he didn't do anything wrong, Moderators offered publicly their evidence and suspicion and gave a chance to be proven wrong and since then Anas hasn't replied.

I think this was far from a witch hunt and was pretty transparent so I think this was very well handled.
Sometimes I think some of the moderators get a bit strict, but I accept that they make/enforce the rules and haven't really felt I was being singled out or treated unfairly. I also appreciate their work and haven't really seen them treat anybody else unfairly either.

p.s. and this really isn't an attack or anything, I said my opinion about Anas' game threads once and really didn't care much after that and, besides that, I didn't have any proof, but I thought something was iffy about some of those posters
I don't want the world, I just want your half

KodiakBehr

I'm skeptical that all views here carry the same weight, but for what it's worth I do find the moderation here to be typically excellent -- so thanks, Snarky. 

But having said that, I really feel that this a minor (albeit embarrassing) revelation that is best resolved with a simple warning in the registration form that sock-puppets are not permitted, and a moderator policy to deal with suspected puppeteers in a discrete and respectful fashion, culminating in a quiet ban if the activity persists.  This thread should have been closed with it's initial post.

To me, Anas' has always been both a friend and a positive member of this community.  These actions didn't hurt anybody.  He didn't steal.  He didn't disparage anyone else's ideas.  Bumping a game thread incessantly in these forums is hardly going to create a lot of momentum for anyone's product (...insert punchline here).  The appropriate punishment, again in my opinion, is we strip him of a little dignity, laugh it off and move on.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

#37
And that's exactly where I disagree.  I don't believe for an instant that this was harmless.  Not only did it deceive the members of the forum but it was used to bolster both the popularity of his games artificially, the appearance of his games remaining at or near the top of the GIP and completed threads, and in at least one occasion to stack the deck in his favor in a competition.

No, these are hardly harmless, unhurtful things.  He stole a competition victory that wasn't his; he hurt the trust of members of the thread who expected him, like everyone else, to stand on his own and not bring in ghost accounts to support and defend him, ghost accounts that I will add many of you believed were different people.  And even those who may be students of his still creates a level of unease, like mad fans pouncing on anyone who opposes the target of their adoration.

So, if it is indeed true, this is far from a harmless case and far from a slap on the wrist.

KodiakBehr

#38
Apologies, I didn't catch that this was used in a forum competition and in reviews of his own product -- I was mistakenly under the impression that this was just bumping to get to the top of the GiP and Completed Threads.  I'd be pissed if I was screwed out of a rigged competition.  But my understanding is he's going to steer clear of the forums anyway, so this is more about what to do with any future individuals caught out like this.

Grim

Very fascinating in a way- I read the whole thing and I'm amazed the lenghts some people would go to boost their ego. But why?... He sounded like such a nice chap!...

I agree that the actions taken by moderators were apropriate and the whole problem very well handled from the start. As I'm trying to establish myself as a commercial developer, same as AnasAbdin, I find it pretty ridiculous that someone would create a fake crowd of groupies to adore him just to create some buzz around his games... I know marketing often relies on lies, but this community has always been based on friendship and honesty and this was just silly, and terribly transparent- it wouldn't take Sherlock Holmes to see there was something wrong there... Clearly, he didn't believe in his own product enough himself, to employ such dirty tactics.

I doubt this will ever happen again. Can anyone be naive enough that this ruse can be repeated and actually work? Don't think so, personally.

voh

Had this happened in any of my communities, I would have done the same thing. So, yes, excellent moderating.

The fact that he declined the skype session (which could have completely cleared him if played well) and that he left on his own make it seem that the moderators (and many members) were right. That's a satisfactory conclusion. He seems guilty, but he left without making it worse.

That sort of speaks for him too. This could have been a much dirtier end. I'm glad it isn't.

I'm also glad about the insight. Sure, it's nosy, and I really have no right to have the insight, but knowing about the suspicion and actually getting the outcome completely and clearly explained gives so much trust in that you guys are doing this for the right reasons.

It's a shame he thought he could leverage the forums to his will. I may not be the most active AGSer, but I respect this place far too much to ever consider doing that.
Still here.

RickJ

Quote...  I don't believe for an instant that this was harmless.  ...
I agree whole heartedly with progz.   Fraudulent accounts/postings breaks the trust and insults the intelligence of the community.  Without trust there is no community and no value in an online forum.  As for the individual named in this post, his writing skills (as displayed in his reply to this thread) seems to be well below a PhD or even Masters degree level.  Makes one wonder, doesn't it ...

I also have disgust at the idea of directing people over whom one has authority to praise one's work.  "Go to this public forum and praise my work and vote for my entry in this competition and I'll give you a grade better than you deserve...".  How ethical and mature is that?  Definitely not the behavior of a competent professional or anyone I would want to have contact with. 

Good work and thanks Snarky and other mods...

kconan

  The mods were more than fair in this case.  I disagree on it being minor, as RickJ stated this kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of everyone here.  I also think that this is a slap in the face to other people making AGS games and trying to get some exposure. 


Kimbra

#43
First of all, the real victim here is AnasAbdin. Not only because 'some' mods are accusing him of something he did not do, they also exposed locations of several people here whom he doesn't know about... oh wait! You people still think I'm another AnasAbdin? ....Really mature.

It's so easy, let the mods simply google the IP I'm using now + "the country name where I'm studing" it'll give them a direct hit to the university campus I'm studying at. And do you guys really think he's that stupid to create multiple accounts from one IP? Not even using proxies?
And NO I WILL NOT EXPOSE MYSELF USING SKYPE TO ANYONE SPECIALLY AFTER KNOWING THAT MY PM TO ONE OF THE MODS WAS FORWARDED TO OTHER PEOPLE (NON MODS INCLUDED)... Next thing a snapshot of my face is roaming the forum...

I'm sure this is the result of jealousy and discrimination from atleast one of the mods towards AnasAbdin. I happen to know most of the people here are into freeware and let's be clear here: you all had a take on AnasAbdin after learning that his game is commercial. I mean go check his Complete Game Announcement and see it for yourselves. Speaking of that thread, AnasAbdin did not know that I was his student here until -me bad- posted a snapshot of his game using a PC from campus which he recognized right away and didn't know how to act or what to do.

I -myself- happen to know one more student using the forum. But hell not all that list. One of them (above in this thread) stated that he/she had another forgotten account. And to be honest, the close logging times of me and any other student is the strongest evidence that we are using the campus PC labs during our breaks to log on the internet.

And yes I do praise him and his work a lot. Because I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS GAME AND ART. And since most of you are into games degrading women and drooling over b***ies I happen to LOVE his work here more and more. I log in -and like everyone else in this forum- I check my favorite threads, if nothing to say I don't post. I check posts from people I know (the one person I know), and he is so TALENTED and I can't stop myself from saying something about it. Sue me.
Not to forget that I have the right to post wherever and to whomever I want to. Just sayin'

Maybe sometimes I post nonsense or reply as if the thread was facebook chat? Ok I take the blame not him. Go to his profile and check his posts, always shushing me and the 'other student' he knew about (only lately) because he felt really bad. And he's ALWAYS asked everyone on his threads to use his blog or email if they have nothing important to say because he felt guilty that he wasn't allowed to support the forum financially. Do you really think he needs to push up his threads among a forum that doesn't contribute financially to his game? And speaking of -and I'm really sorry to say that AnasAbdin but I have no choice because the dumdum here is too much and I have to shut some mouths (Mr.Abdin I know you'll kill me for exposing this)- he is using all the profits for an orphanage here (were we live).

In short, believe whatever you want to, I will remain in this forum like anyone else, I will post whenever I want to from whatever IP I'm using. And I encourage everyone to do so. I will praise you if you are good. I am not violating the rules of the forums unless it is not allowed to give your free opinion in a well-mannered way.

ddq

Ooh, forum drama. First, the on-topic stuff so Dualnames doesn't yell at me: mods responded appropriately, sock-puppeting isn't harmless, but isn't as egregious as some claim, Kimbra should probably stop digging their way out of a hole and take a Xanax, and Prometheus was a fucking terrible film.

Grim

I actually quite enjoyed Prometheus... ;)

Well, if this is true, an orphanage in which children guided by their charismatic inspirational teacher make adventure games together, must be the most awesome orphanage in the world!

straydogstrut

Yes, I understood the intent with the latest mod post to be a summary of this case and a call for discussion on how future cases should be handled. The mods themselves mentioned that this is not the only case being looked at. I think singling out AnasAbdin or jumping to prove/disprove the accusations is best left for PMs to the mods from anyone who has concerns, otherwise this topic will quickly spiral out of control.

Quote from: Snarky on Sat 08/09/2012 19:42:03
Given that we haven't had an explicit rule prohibiting such behaviors, we would like to ask the community for input on how we should proceed in the future. We wouldn't normally expect to make this big a deal of fake accounts, but we feel this has been going on for so long, and affected so many members, that some sort of closure is necessary. As previously mentioned, this is not the only case we are looking at, and further announcements may follow.

Dave Gilbert

So sad that this happened. But I suppose since the folks involved have declined to step up and refute the claims, there was no other outcome.

Andail

Kimbra, I understand that you're emotionally affected by this, but please try to look at from our perspective, and please address the questions that have been raised instead of throwing around your own accusations. None of the moderators have ever held a grudge towards AnasAbdin. Nobody is jealous or bitter or angry with him because he's made a successful game that he has chosen to make commercial.

None of the great professional game makers - Vince and Dave to mention two - have been met with skepticism or resentment by this community for going commercial.

Also, you keep referring to the fact that Anas is kind towards children, and that he's expressed interest in supporting AGS financially. This is beside the point - we're not questioning Anas's warm heart and dedication to AGS.

Anas's only response so far has been virtually the same - how people are jealous of him for being successful and popular, and he's also already mentioned how he helps orphans and what not. If you feel you have been unfairly targeted by other members or moderators in the past, please point out these instances. It doesn't help to portray yourselves as martyrs.

Kimbra

I am so sad you mods made me cry  :~(
He NEVER mentioned the children and he NEVER asked for sympathy and he NEVER tried to look like a martyr (when did he mention the orphans???)
I also feel violated when one of the mods forwarded my PM to other people, you mods are no guarding angels and what you did to him is not acceptable.

Ali

Kimbra, I think most of us would prefer it if you were telling the truth. AnasAbdin is/was well liked in the forums. However, it's hard to believe that he was unaware of your posting when posts are as close together as this:

Quote from: Snarky on Sat 08/09/2012 19:42:03
AnasAbdin          Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 08:52:05
Kimbra             Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 08:42:47
AnasAbdin          Re: [Released] Anastronaut          26 January 2012, 08:40:01

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it stretches credibility.

To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. You can't make an extraordinary claim, refuse to back it up and start throwing around insults.

AnasAbdin

omg! you're all being judgmental now?! Next time I'll always check the IP/time/date of a post before I reply. Happy?
Jesus I don't want to explain any further. this is so sad  :~(

Stupot

The plot thickens. Think of the orphans, people!
I always thought Anas seemed cool. But something was always a bit odd about this situation.

I think this has happened before though (just not to quite the same scale). I've noticed several times in the past that a CG announcement has brought with it some new members who disappear again after a few quick  posts about that one game.  With the bigger releases that get publicised elsewhere, then fine, but it has happened on small games too.

AnasAbdin

And please, I don't want anyone to talk in behalf of me. I have chosen to lay back the forum for a short time because it's the beginning of the semester and I am busy with work and life; not for any other reason.

Ali

Quote from: AnasAbdin on Sun 09/09/2012 10:21:46
omg! you're all being judgmental now?! Next time I'll always check the IP/time/date of a post before I reply. Happy?
Jesus I don't want to explain any further. this is so sad  :~(

I agree it's sad, which is why I haven't attacked you at any point. I'm saying it's hard to believe that you weren't aware of one another using the same forums in the same place within minutes of each other.

EDIT: And I was actually addressing Kimbra, not you!

AGA

For the people who have been accusing the mods of being biased, or of victimisation, I can tell you this is nonsense.

I haven't been involved in the decision making of this issue, since I don't pay enough attention to the relevant forums to make a judgement (I had no idea who AnasAbdin even was).  In the discussion thread in the staff forum, the points were laid out calmly and without strong opinion.  The decision to make this thread was made with input from a large number of the staff, and certainly was never down to one person's personal dislike of the people (person?) involved.  The staff have acted as would be expected of them: fairly and neutrally.

Snarky

As AGA says, no one has in any way been "out to get" AnasAbdin. Before this case came up, I believe most moderators either personally liked him, or had no opinion one way or the other. Our responses and actions follow from the evidence (the most important parts of which we have presented).

I am personally convinced that Kimbra is AnasAbdin, or at the very least acting in cohort with him. The post above is point for point the same claims previously made by him, including the ridiculous "You shared a PM with someone else? You're history's greatest monster!" pretext for refusing a video chat.

For the record, Kimbra sent a PM defending AnasAbdin. It contained no information he would not already be aware of if his story were true. I replied to them both with the offer of a video chat, cc'ing another mod who had been in touch with him. He responded in a similarly outraged and paranoid manner. Kimbra never responded... but then that would be redundant since they are apparently of the same mind on everything.

The mods (like, I would hope, any other members) use discretion in sharing PMs with anyone else. If the message states that it's only for one person, or contains sensitive information, we would keep it private unless there were overwhelming reasons otherwise. Apart from that, PMs to the mods in their official capacity are routinely shared among the other moderators, in order to coordinate our responses and keep everyone on the same page. And we may forward a PM to someone else that it relates to, if that does not compromise the original sender, just like you might forward an email to another friend or co-worker. This should not be a shock to anyone.

To be clear: We would, of course, not publicly disseminate recordings or screenshots of such a video chat, particularly if it proved AnasAbdin and Kimbra to in fact be separate people. As I've been sort of the point person on this case (though we've had extensive discussions behind the scene to decide how to handle it), I can fully understand if AnasAbdin has formed some resentment against me. If he has more trust in and would prefer to deal with one of the other moderators, that's fine.

I am disappointed that AnasAbdin has not stuck by the decision to leave the community voluntarily, and that Kimbra is still posting. As voh said, this matter could have been put to a clean end; now it will have to get messier.

Radiant

Where one side (i.e. the mods) has rational argument and clear evidence, and the other (i.e. this game designer who I haven't heard of) has just a bunch of insults, I'm pretty obviously going with the former. Come on, I've seen this on wikipedia plenty of times, sockpuppeteers respond like that all the time when caught redhanded.

voh

Okay, regardless of what the exact truth is, the fact that this many accounts are posting from the same IP will remain shady at best.

This isn't about 'discrimination'. Most people on these forums have been supportive of commercial ventures (though are sometimes disappointed by seemingly high price points, that doesn't mean they're not supportive of the venture itself) because it shows that we, as AGSers, can do 'real', commercially viable games. Look at Resonance, the Blackwells, Gemini Rue. That we'd be negative towards Anas because of his game becoming a commercial venture is one incredibly weak argument. Hell, it was on my 'to check' list.

Either way, I think maybe it's a good idea if all the complicit accounts stop posting for a bit. Let this die down. Talk to the mods, find the truth or at least a middle ground everyone can be happy with.

Making this a public debate between the 'accused' and the mods will only reflect badly on Anas and friends.

Take a breath and find a solution.
Still here.

Dualnames

I personally liked Anas, but seriously, refusing to come forth via some way to prove he's not behind the accounts, and instead choosing to back away from the forums before he gets banned to appear as a martyr, is ridiculous. All you had to do was prove yourself, and you failed to do by anyone's standards. And that's wrong in my books.
Worked on Strangeland, Primordia, Hob's Barrow, The Cat Lady, Mage's Initiation, Until I Have You, Downfall, Hunie Pop, and every game in the Wadjet Eye Games catalogue (porting)

Ryan Timothy B

#60
I live with my brother and he has an account here. I don't believe he's logged on in a year or so though.
Username: Travis Anthony

Mentioning it just in case it had come to your attention in your identical IP hunt. We're twins and since we have the same birthday on the accounts is why I worried you'd think it was a terrible attempt at a sock puppet. ;)

Also I think we should avoid the finger pointing or "I like him/her, but can't believe they did it" responses. The situation could be legit, or it might not be. I don't think it needs to be mentioned anymore.

RickJ

#61
AnasAbdin's lack of maturity and professional temperament betray his assertion that he is a university professor.  At this point what happened with regard to postings is no longer relevant.  His subsequent statements undermine his own credibility and have shown him to be unworthy of our trust.  I for one, do not wish to be associated with or have any interaction with this individual.    :(

AnasAbdin

I don't mind using skype with a moderator, though I don't know what would that prove. I also don't mind giving a mod my academic ID and Pass to access my online personal university account which contains my full name Anas ***** Abdin, Job title and other relevant information. I never said I'm a 'university professor', I said 'teacher' and in my university that makes huge difference.

Andail

No, that won't be necessary - moderators haven't questioned your being employed at a university. Again, don't stray from the topic please.

If you ask me personally, I would have been satisfied if you, at one point in the past or as a response to our questions, had said the following:
"Oh, btw, I have this group of students, they use my computer lab, and they're the ones bumping all my threads. And, haha, they even vote for me in the competitions, which is a bit awkward, I know!"

That would have been a much simpler response than to throw accusations and insults back at us. All this talk about how we're jealous of you - for whatever reason - and how moderators secretly hate you, and how kind a person you are and how important you are for the orphans in your neighborhood, all that doesn't answer any of our questions.

ddq

#64
[Series of preceding messages removed by moderator]

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." If the AGS community has taught me anything, it's the truth of this razor. The dude could be innocent but simply not intellectually or emotionally capable of defending himself without coming off as a ponce, and I hardly believe that his "behavior" has implicated him beyond a shadow of a doubt, innocent until proven guilty and all that rubbish. Whatever the case, he needs to shut up about the orphanages and all the emotional manipulation with the "teacher" bullshit, it's just a blatant persecution complex.

And Christ, I think we all (myself included) need to take a step back and recall that this is just a forum on the Internet where people make retro point-and-click adventures for fun. Chill the fuck out.

Snarky

#65
To anyone who has doubts, I would urge: just go and read the announcement thread for Anastronaut. Now keep in mind that all the first few posts from AnasAbdin, Kimbra, PassionatePatty and redMatter were made from the same IP. That means they were probably written from the same computer, and certainly from the same room (given plausible setups of a university computer lab). Now consider that after the post by Ascovel (i.e. a while later), the next bunch of posts by AnasAbdin, PassionatePatty, ~TongueSplit~ and MattKatela were also all written from the same IP, different from the first one (posted from late afternoon to late night, and the following morning on a non-workday).

Do they read as if they're written from a bunch of students to their teacher while they're all sitting next to each other in the same room, making no attempt to hide this fact? Is it plausible that they could do this while being completely unaware of each other, even when the messages are posted only a couple of minutes apart? Would the teacher's only clue be the photo of one of the computers? Would you believe that a few hours later, the same thing happens again from a different IP? AnasAbdin would have us believe that wherever he goes, all hours of the day and night, he's stalked by a group of up to a dozen student fans, who log on to computers right behind his back in order to praise him on the AGS forums without his knowledge. It simply is not credible.

Even before we named any names, without knowing anything about the IPs, people were able to point fingers; because once you look at that thread, it's obvious that something fishy was going on.

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Sun 09/09/2012 18:53:36
I live with my brother and he has an account here. I don't believe he's logged on in a year or so though.
Username: Travis Anthony

Mentioning it just in case it had come to your attention in your identical IP hunt. We're twins and since we have the same birthday on the accounts is why I worried you'd think it was a terrible attempt at a sock puppet. ;)

Ah, the old "evil twin" excuse! ;)
Thanks for the heads up, Ryan. This is the kind of thing we'd like people to disclose (to the moderators, at least, if they don't want it public).

Eric

Quote from: RickJ on Sun 09/09/2012 19:28:22
AnasAbdin's lack of maturity and professional temperament betray his assertion that he is a university professor.

Not that I really have a dog in the fight, but as a former adjunct professor, and hopefully soon a tenure track professor, I have to say from experience that, unfortunately, "maturity" and "professional temperament" aren't always defining traits for folks in my profession. I've had my fair share of experience with some Ph.D.-holding loonies...and I don't mean the Canadian coin.

And as the person who mentioned witch hunts for the first time, I want to be clear that I never thought the moderators were "witch hunting," but that identifying the situation and not the perpetrator always leads to speculation by the peanut gallery. As I insinuated before, based on Calin's clues, my initial guess was Nightfable, before remembering how much press that Mass Effect fangame got outside of this site. Now, I'm sure there are others who have looked through AnasAbdin's other threads trying to pick out users who might or might not be real. We should all try to suppress this urge is what I'm saying. But that's easier said than done.

Snarky

For the record, we have no indication or reason to believe that Nightfable has used multiple accounts in any unethical fashion.

All the accounts we can link to AnasAbdin's IPs have been announced.

LimpingFish

#68
Quote from: Eric on Sun 09/09/2012 23:16:27
...my initial guess was...

Please don't post about other users, even if it's just to point out their innocence. It will help us avoid the risk of people unrelated to the topic at hand feeling slighted and posting to defend themselves.:)

Quote from: Eric on Sun 09/09/2012 23:16:27
Now, I'm sure there are others who have looked through AnasAbdin's other threads trying to pick out users who might or might not be real. We should all try to suppress this urge is what I'm saying.

Yes. Anybody who is feeling the urge to comment on users/threads not already covered in Snarky's detailed breakdown, should absolutely refrain from doing so publicly. Investigations are ongoing.

I'd also add that we should try to keep any squabbling over opinions on the matter to a minimum.

EDIT: Wot Snarky dun said, too.
Steam: LimpingFish
PSN: LFishRoller
XB: TheActualLimpingFish
Spotify: LimpingFish

Eric

Yeah, please don't let me besmirch Nightfable's name! That's not my intent!

My intent is to show how easy it is for us folks without access to the data to jump to conclusions.

RickJ

Quote
Not that I really have a dog in the fight, but as a former adjunct professor, and hopefully soon a tenure track professor,
Eric, congratulation and may I wish you the best of luck on your career path. 

Quote
I have to say from experience that, unfortunately, "maturity" and "professional temperament" aren't always defining traits for folks in my profession. I've had my fair share of experience with some Ph.D.-holding loonies...and I don't mean the Canadian coin.
This made me laugh out loud and almost fall out of my chair  (laugh).   All I can say "Point well made" and I stand (well actually partially sitting in my chair) corrected. ;)

Comic relief couldn't have come at a better time.  :)

Darth Mandarb

I wanted to put my two cents in here...

I think, at this point, we've solidified that this wasn't just a witch-hunt but since we've made the issue public I'd like to just shed some light on what happened here.

The topic was raised (sock-puppet accounts) for a completely different reason/member and it brought the topic into focus.  I had suspected for sometime (in the GiP) that the two accounts (PassionatePatty and Kimbra) were "fishy".  Now it wasn't anything personal, mind you.  I've been moderating that board for 8 years now [damn].  I read/monitor every thread (and I even occasionally go 5-10 pages deep locking old/dead threads, etc).  I know who the most active posters are and their posting habits.  I noticed that these two accounts always (and only) posted in Anas' threads.  Had they actively posted in other threads I'd probably have never noticed.  I had no idea of the other accounts (even though some of them posted in the same threads).  So when the topic was raised I just asked, out of sheer curiosity, about PassionatePatty and Kimbra.  That's when the rest of the details were brought into the light.

I understand (and agree with my fellow moderators) about the seriousness of sock-puppet accounts and how they can damage (even destroy) an online community such as ours.  I was very hesitant at first about making this issue "public" as we did but it had become public before we really announced it anyway.

Do I think this activity is "ban" worthy?  Yes I do.  However, as some of you might know, I'm a bit of a stickler for the rules (nod).  Since we didn't technically have any rules in place in regards to sock-puppetry (even though I think it should be common sense that such actions are "wrong") I was hesitant to support banning as punishment but I can and do see why it could be necessary.  We went 'round and 'round on the topic which is one of the reasons why we decided to go public with it and feel out the community for their feelings on the matter.

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

In the interests of lightening the mood, I encourage you all to watch this delightful little introduction to the Mittens Disneyland Experience by Grundislav:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/86564054@N05/7931362768/in/photostream

kconan

I'm on a fitness webboard that has a dedicated sub-forum area called "Members Who Have Multiple User Names", and the system will automatically create a thread for anyone who trips the detector (which I would think is IP based) and say something sarcastic like "Joe tried to create another account...No soup for you Joe!".  Once and while someone who has a legit reason, like maybe they forgot account information or perhaps a friend logs in from their PC, will go into the thread and protest.  This particular board added the feature because there is a sub-forum where companies sell supplements, and some of those companies would create sock puppet "customers".

This kind of measure is not needed here at all.  My point for mentioning is for anyone who thinks that this thread is extreme, there are other boards that more seriously police sock puppets.

AGA

Quote from: Eric on Sun 09/09/2012 23:16:27
Not that I really have a dog in the fight, but as a former adjunct professor, and hopefully soon a tenure track professor, I have to say from experience that, unfortunately, "maturity" and "professional temperament" aren't always defining traits for folks in my profession. I've had my fair share of experience with some Ph.D.-holding loonies...and I don't mean the Canadian coin.

I work in university administration, and I'm well aware of how true this is.  Our staff is something like 17 PhDs, but I wouldn't trust half of them to babysit a kid.  Lovely people generally, just not of the normal world.

SSH

I noticed that the alleged "Janet Gilbert" keeps posting from the same IP as "Dave Gilbert"... I suspect something is up here ;) If only a number of well-respected AGSers had actually met this alleged so-called Janet...

To be fair, I can quite easily see that Anas and co's story can be true. I hope they can soon find the time to set up a video chat and clear the air.

On the other hand, I can see how someone determined to game the system could, I just assumed that it wasn't worth the trouble or self-loathing.



12


Slasher

I agree that if users are creating aliases to bump all there threads and games then this is NOT acceptable.

However, there may come a time when you need to dust yourself down and start all over again as a 'New Face' on the block, this I find acceptable.


Long live AGS




Ryan Timothy B

Quote from: Kimbra on Sun 09/09/2012 07:12:20
[..] I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS GAME AND ART. And since most of you are into games degrading women and drooling over b***ies I happen to LOVE his work here more and more.

I still find this a little foggy.. which games (other than Ponch's) actually degrade women or show off breasts?

Grundislav

I must also admit.  I am blowie.

Although I think we created this account on AGA's computer.

AGA

Quote from: Grundislav on Tue 11/09/2012 01:29:56
I must also admit.  I am blowie.

Although I think we created this account on AGA's computer.

It's also tied to my email address.

Jonez

Quote from: AGA on Tue 11/09/2012 07:36:30
Quote from: Grundislav on Tue 11/09/2012 01:29:56
I must also admit.  I am blowie.

Although I think we created this account on AGA's computer.

It's also tied to my email address.

So wait... Blowie is two persons at the same time? There must be a violation of some sort in there somewhere.

SSH

Its not how big your collection of fake accounts is, its what you do with them...

I'm sure I had a fake account but I can't work out what it is.
12

AGA

If you could stay in one part of the world for more than ten minutes I could tell you.

Ponch

#84
Quote from: Baron on Thu 06/09/2012 01:16:56
I become Ponch when the sun sets.  Hssssssssss!

Never!!1! There is teh onlys one Ponch! :=

And I can't believe I'm only now discovering this thread. Thank you, AGS Blog, for keeping me informed about what all the cool kids are up to!  :cheesy:

And having now perused the entire thread, I'm tempted to make a Ponch's Sock Puppet account. I could draw my cow with a little cow sock puppet dancing on one hand.  :cool:

Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 11/09/2012 01:27:45
Quote from: Kimbra on Sun 09/09/2012 07:12:20
[..] I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS GAME AND ART. And since most of you are into games degrading women and drooling over b***ies I happen to LOVE his work here more and more.

I still find this a little foggy.. which games (other than Ponch's) actually degrade women or show off breasts?

My games don't degrade women. You can love boobies and still respect the women who sport them.  :=

Kimbra

Quote from: Ponch on Wed 12/09/2012 04:19:02
Quote from: Ryan Timothy on Tue 11/09/2012 01:27:45
Quote from: Kimbra on Sun 09/09/2012 07:12:20
[..] I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS GAME AND ART. And since most of you are into games degrading women and drooling over b***ies I happen to LOVE his work here more and more.

I still find this a little foggy.. which games (other than Ponch's) actually degrade women or show off breasts?

My games don't degrade women. You can love boobies and still respect the women who sport them.  :=

I didn't mention you and to tell you the truth, I felt bad that your name was dragged here :( Sorry if I caused it in anyway.

monkey0506

I've been monitoring this thread, and without stirring the pot back up too much, before AnasAbdin was even "outed" as (one of) the person(s) under suspicion of sock-puppeting with multiple accounts he sent me a strangely gratuitous PM. Of course, I would never want to divulge such information publicly ((roll)) but it came across as very odd given that I can recollect very little personal contact with AnasAbdin. In fact, when I Googled, I only turned up one thread that we both definitely posted in. Now..I suppose it's possible that Google has overlooked something.

I do have a grand total of 3 PMs sent to me from AnasAbdin (oh, there I go divulging private information publicly 8-0). Aside from the one mentioned, one of them was in January of this year, also thanking me for my support and technical help. The other was a question about AGSteam (which for anyone who is reading this and interested, is badly bugged, and I need to fix it - or release the fix rather).

This, along with the unusual manner of the responses to his threads, make me skeptical about the sincerity of it all. I'm not passing judgement, I'll stay neutral on this. In all honesty and fairness though, the whole matter is a bit suspect, and I think anyone reviewing the situation that actually attempted to remove their own biases would see this perspective.

I think the moderators handled the issue in a reasonable fashion.

Ryan Timothy B

#87
Quote from: Kimbra on Wed 12/09/2012 06:18:16
I didn't mention you and to tell you the truth, I felt bad that your name was dragged here :( Sorry if I caused it in anyway.
Ponch is only satisfied when everyone is talking about him. That's why I like to toss his name in once in a while just to make him feel comfortable. (He's got an ego the size of a cow)

But, Kimbra, you still haven't mentioned what you were referring to with "our feminizing and/or breast admiring games". Or were you just spewing random lies to defend your love for Anas' game? Which is fine that you love it, you just don't need to say everyone else makes games that are feminizing or breast admiring.

Snarky

OK, this is getting off topic, so I'm locking it again.

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