AGS Awards 2013! - Wieners (and winners)

Started by , Tue 31/12/2013 22:58:06

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Andail

What if there was a special class for commercial games, that involved all categories? Next year will see a lot of big commercial titles, and it would seem strange with only one award.

miguel

Sounds good, even if not all the categories.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Daniel Eakins

#22
Why not change the rules of the "Completed Game Announcements" board so that games posted there MUST also be added to the AGS database? It could be a rule like how games posted in the "AGS Games in Production" board must have two screenshots.

Edit: Or what LimpingFish said too!
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Ghost

#23
I misread something. No post.

MillsJROSS

Seems a bit much to have to vote for best commercial and free game categories. I understand wanting to award free work over a commercially motivated work, but when I vote I always weigh how much I actually paid for a game.

So if a free game has graphics that are great and a commercial game has graphics that are great, I'd naturally be inclined to give it to the free game.


miguel

Mills, I also favour the underdog at al times, but in my opinion, having separate voting classes would protect the one-man-does-it-all type of games, who are never to stand a chance against semi-pro teams.
Thinking about it, it's not that Primordia (this is a example) shouldn't be Best AGS Game of The Year, but we should have Best Non-Commercial Game of The Year as well. This put does it make more sense?
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Gilbert

Actually I'm all for keeping commercial games separate, not because commercial games may be produced by more professional creators. In fact I don't think that would make such a huge distinction. There are also many professionally made free games as well. My main concern is that being a commercial game it is not available to everybody and only those who paid for it have really played it(unless, well...). Even when there is a free demo it cannot do the full game's justice. By making commercial games compete with non-commercial ones it will just make things complicated, as there will be a number of voters who have only played either kind of games, but not both.

miguel

Working on a RON game!!!!!

qptain Nemo

I am of course biased on that subject (I'm severely sore and butthurt about PISS never competing with other games because it wasn't put in the database) but I think voting eligibility entirely relying on the game entry being added on time... is rather unwise. I think people who maintain the awards should have the power to add any fitting games they are aware of into the eligibility list regardless of the time they were added or whether they've been added at all. Just my opinion.

MillsJROSS

Quote from: miguel on Thu 02/01/2014 14:05:07
Thinking about it, it's not that Primordia (this is a example) shouldn't be Best AGS Game of The Year, but we should have Best Non-Commercial Game of The Year as well. This put does it make more sense?

I like that idea...Having both a commercial and non-commercial game of the year, but leaving the other categories as a free-for-all.

Perhaps, some historical perspectives on how many awards in the past have gone to commercial vs. free games would give us enough context to decide to split all categories. For instance, if 90% of the awards go to a commercial game, then that might point out that there should be separate awards for both on all categories.

DoorKnobHandle

Quote from: MillsJROSS on Fri 03/01/2014 00:51:54
Quote from: miguel on Thu 02/01/2014 14:05:07
Thinking about it, it's not that Primordia (this is a example) shouldn't be Best AGS Game of The Year, but we should have Best Non-Commercial Game of The Year as well. This put does it make more sense?

I like that idea...Having both a commercial and non-commercial game of the year, but leaving the other categories as a free-for-all.

Perhaps, some historical perspectives on how many awards in the past have gone to commercial vs. free games would give us enough context to decide to split all categories. For instance, if 90% of the awards go to a commercial game, then that might point out that there should be separate awards for both on all categories.

Mills, you weren't around but we had this exact scenario happen last year where one certain commercial game won pretty much every award there was. It lead to discussion similar to this one now, were most people favor a seperation, me included.

LimpingFish

#31
Quote from: qptain Nemo on Thu 02/01/2014 18:28:29
I think people who maintain the awards should have the power to add any fitting games they are aware of into the eligibility list regardless of the time they were added or whether they've been added at all.

But why? Not to go too big, but the Academy Awards, for instance(!), don't work in this way. Eligible films must be submitted (which is the responsibility of the film's producers) to the Academy within a set time frame, or they don't get to compete. It's not down to the Academy, or any third-party, to ensure certain films aren't overlooked.

Quote from: MillsJROSS on Fri 03/01/2014 00:51:54
I like that idea...Having both a commercial and non-commercial game of the year, but leaving the other categories as a free-for-all.

Just to clarify, I believe that commercial games should only be eligible for one award, Best Commercial Game, for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post, though I also support the point that Iceboty7000a has raised.
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m0ds

#32
Every year we try and invoke changes on the awards. Bici, you are a strong man for keeping it as it is - freeware + commercial, I salute you!!

It's kind of a given. You use AGS for however long to make a game the least you can do is add it to the db the same time you spam us with your completed games thread ;) At least it shows to some extent your enthusiasm to have used AGS and to be releasing it here. And those who don't bother, or manage to disappear even before it's released - well that's their problem entirely.

Personally, I still enjoy an all encompassing AGS awards. It's the best of the best of the ENGINE. Whether someone paid for the best or got it free... it's personal opinion. Great games will always be rewarded no matter how they are distributed. I don't think a single category change would do this "idea" justice, you would need two seperate awards, the freeware awards and the commercial awards. And then, it's not all-encompassing anymore. Some people won't be arsed with one some people won't be arsed with the other.

Maybe people feel the awards aren't "organic" anymore. That they are dictated by numbers, figures etc. But I still don't believe that myself. You still have to have a forum account to cast a vote. If people actually paid their wages into getting an AGS game they should be as welcome to the awards as people who got one for free, and vice versa. I still, personally, like it as it is. Look at this upcoming awards. You have a gigantic freeware game vs very few commercial ones this time round. Isn't that exciting? Cos every year it will fluctuate. One year you might have 3 freeware entries and 20 commercial entries. IMO, keep it as it is ;)

I've confused myself: what WERE the 2013 commercial games??

qptain Nemo

Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 03/01/2014 01:16:11
But why? Not to go too big, but the Academy Awards, for instance(!), don't work in this way. Eligible films must be submitted (which is the responsibility of the film's producers) to the Academy within a set time frame, or they don't get to compete. It's not down to the Academy, or any third-party, to ensure certain films aren't overlooked.
Why? You mean you wouldn't want the competition to be as inclusive as possible without some games lost to arbitrary trivial technicalities? I know I would and I say that as a player not as a developer. If my favourite game got excluded that way and I wouldn't be able to vote for it, I'd be even more pissed than I am about PISS. (pun not intended) And now I recall I actually was really pissed about Primordia as well. Let me ask you too, why not? What exactly is there to lose by trying to represent AGS gaming as accurately as possible and including all games we're aware of?

bicilotti

Thanks for the inputs everyone!
The point I was asking opinions on is more specific, though.

In plain words, we face the case of a game which was released in 2012 but added to the DB way later (not just one or two days later, like SQII VGA, not because of technical problems as for some Bake Sale entries). I found it eligible for this year Awards but it seems a large majority is against this decision.
Since it is the first time this happens, it's appropriate to promptly decide on a general rule.
So please, clearly state your opinion on this circumscribed matter.

edit: that is not to kill off other relevant discussion (commercial/not, DB entry neede/not). Please do keep talking about those topics, on this one I need an answer fast though. :P

Dualnames

Ahem, let me intervene, but I've kind of withdrawn the game, since Andail pointed out it may end up having heated discussions. So why are we discussing this?
Worked on Strangeland, Primordia, Hob's Barrow, The Cat Lady, Mage's Initiation, Until I Have You, Downfall, Hunie Pop, and every game in the Wadjet Eye Games catalogue (porting)

Ponch

I'm perfectly happy to let this one go. :smiley:

bicilotti

That's because I have got the attention span of a goldfish... But I will redeem myself by adding random smileys and a Larry Vales, :-[ :X ;-D (wtf) (roll) :=
Please go on doing whatever you were doing.

bicilotti

Quote from: qptain Nemo on Thu 02/01/2014 18:28:29
I think people who maintain the awards should have the power to add any fitting games they are aware of into the eligibility list regardless of the time they were added or whether they've been added at all. Just my opinion.

Double post to assess this particular point: as I said adding the game to the database is the simplest way to state "deal me in, please". I have know at least one developer who purposely didn't add their game to the DB because they didn't want to be associated with the community (and I guess, with the Awards too). To sum sup: imho some kind of "submission rule" will be always needed, wherever you decide to technically draw the line.

Aaaaaand to restate a well known thought of mine: to prevent and counter the risk of inflation, we need less  categories, not more!

Adeel

Quote from: Andail on Thu 02/01/2014 10:17:57
What if there was a special class for commercial games, that involved all categories? Next year will see a lot of big commercial titles, and it would seem strange with only one award.

I completely agree with Andail. While it does makes sense to have another class, it really doesn't make sense to make just a single category of 'Best Commercial Game". As we all know, not even a commercial game is perfect in all the aspects. Hence, having only one category would do great injustice to other commercial games. I would really like to see same categories for Commercial Class too.

As for the other topic, I second the idea of having another field in games' database to include a date when the game was 'actually' released. With the blank or default input referring to the release date, on which the game was added.

As for yet another topic, I second the idea of allowing Primordia and similar cases for this year only.

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