Indiana Jones and the Gold of Gengis Khan (Indiana Jones e l'Oro di Gengis Khan)

Started by Monsieur OUXX, Sun 14/12/2014 22:35:49

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Monsieur OUXX

Alright, I know that the game is in Italian (I'm not an Italian speaker myself but I want to play this game so badly I'm trying anyway).

I'm stuck in the first room!
Spoiler

Indy says he won't leave the room without his wallet. I've searched the room : the bed, the drawer, etc. but couldn't find it. I've found Hemingway's book though. I've tried to open the driving license* but Indy won't open it.

*On an unrelated topic: It's hilarious how I've searched "taccuino" in google images (to know the meaning of the word) and the item sprite is one of the very first image results ;) I see we have the same work process!
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EDIT ...AAaaaand of course after searching for 15 minutes and giving up, I found the answer litteraly seconds after posting this. That's not too big a pixel hunt, but still a pixel hunt </frustrated gamer> ;)
 

Gabarts

It was the very first room I designed in AGS, considering my scripting experience back then (not that now is bigger...) it was the only solution! :) Good luck with the rest, I warn you... there will be another one! Just one... very hard to find.

Monsieur OUXX

Well apparently it's not the only case of pixel hunting, there's one in almost every room ;)
Spoiler

- The right-hand-side flower in Venice is almost invisible. The red one is OK, though.
- And that mela. THAT MELA! I saw it under my mouse for half a second then spent 5 minutes moving my mouse veeeery slowly to find it again, just to realize it was gone forever, but somehow happened into the dialog options.
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But anyway, I'm stuck again, for other reasons:
Spoiler

I'm in Venice, I have the two flowers, the bread crumbs, the fish, the green apple (I've taken a bite from it).
I've realized that the fish prevents the seagull from flying away.

>> But I'm not sure what I must do.
- Indy won't take the Gondola (despite the fruit merchant telling him to go to Barber street).
- Also I'm not sure how to get the "object high up" (above the fruit merchant). I've tried the whip, but Indy says it's catching the attention too much. So I think it has something to do with the seagull, but I've tried "picking it up", "giving it the fish", "giving it the bread crumbs", "talking to it", "using it", using the fish (and every object) on the seagull, using the fish on the lantern, on the floor, etc. Basically I've tried everything with the seagull and with the fish but I just can't find what to do.

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Gabarts

Where are you from Monsieur? :) You know italian very well, I can see... you have almost done the first part, you just need some c....

Monsieur OUXX

 

Gabarts

Hey Monsieur, how's going? :) If you got all you need in the inventory it's just a matter of combinations! :)
Then comes a very logical solution...

How can I add spoilers?!


Monsieur OUXX

Quote from: Gabarts on Thu 18/12/2014 18:51:33
If you got all you need in the inventory it's just a matter of combinations! :)
Now I know that I didn't miss an object, then that should help. Thanks!

EDIT: sorry, at first I didn't understand your question "how can I dadd spoilers?"
Here is how you do : [ hide ] spoiler [ /hide ]  (remove the spaces)
 

Gabarts

FINE!

Here the big hint...

Spoiler
It's an items combo to get a very toxic item :)
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Monsieur OUXX

Quote from: Gabarts on Fri 19/12/2014 11:04:56
Here the big hint...

Spoiler
It's an items combo to get a very toxic item :)
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Spoiler
If you're talking about mixing the bread crmbs with the red flower, then I've done it, but I don't know how it helps.
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Gabarts

Don't worry, as soon as the english version is ready, I will make the complete walkthrough for the chapter :)
It's not funny but I'll do it! I'll put an italian+english version in my page, so the ones who cannot resist can complete it in some minutes...

Monsieur OUXX

If you could just give a hint
Spoiler

When you say "you need to make something toxic" that doesn't help much because I can't see at all where it would be needed and what gave a hint of such a toxic chemical needed anywhere. What is this related to ?

For example, you could say: "Did you notice that the fascist has a very bad digestion, and that any spicy drink would make him lose his mind?" or anything like that, rather than "you need to make a toxic liquid"
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Cassiebsg

Spoiler

Where on earth did you find a fish and a seagull? ???

I do have that very tasty toxic thing though, no idea what to do with it either...

Hint on toxic
Spoiler

Remember Indy complained about the apple?
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Gabarts

Hi Cassiebsg,

The fish is not so hard to find once you have found the seagull...

The seagull is in the dock area, or "Dock's alley" as called ingame. Just behind the orange fascist guard. Of course you need to pass first! ;)

Here little christmas gifts for you guys

Spoiler
Talk with all, more than once and that worm is pretty useless alone, but is crucial to go on!
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Also

Spoiler
Once you find the seagull, the fish is in the very same area, just do a weird thing on a stupid pole
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Cassiebsg

orange guard? Am I missing a room somewhere?
Have only seen a blue and a green guard. :shocked:

EDIT:
Okay, you probably meant the green guard, as I've now pass him. (laugh)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Gabarts


Monsieur OUXX

About the apple
Spoiler

I've bitten into it and Indy says it's not very good (I can't understand exactly what he says because I don't speak Italian) BUT then I've tried to see if there was a worm inside (my Point-n-click instinct tells me to ALWAYS look for the worm in the apple) but didn't find how to do. I've looked at the apple, "used" it, etc. How do I get the worm?

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Cassiebsg


Spoiler

When in doubt try everything... but I think I opened it.  (nod)
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Monsieur OUXX

 

Kitty Trouble

I'm stuck in the first room too, can I get a hint..?

Edit:

Spoiler
I figured it out, but now stuck on the chest combination. I did open the notebook.
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Cassiebsg

Quote from: chaosgodkarl on Thu 25/12/2014 08:10:24
Edit:

Spoiler
I figured it out, but now stuck on the chest combination. I did open the notebook.
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About the chest...
Spoiler

Try different combinations of the words...
Draw them on paper if you can remembers them...
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Kitty Trouble

Spoiler
I screenshotted them, I was just wondering if there was logic to the order besides guess and check.
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Cassiebsg

Don't know if there's logic about it,
Spoiler
I random clicked, nothing... then did one combination, nothing... then a 2nd and worked. So didn't use more time thinking about it... ;)
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Mandle

Quote from: chaosgodkarl on Thu 25/12/2014 19:16:30
Spoiler
I screenshotted them, I was just wondering if there was logic to the order besides guess and check.
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Spoiler
I think it's something about the top three important attributes of a warrior. By which I mean the order in which the three virtues are important.

Which I guessed to be (SPOILER ALERT: CONTAINS SOLUTION):

Spoiler
Ability...Bravery...Strength and was shocked when I got it right on the first try. Made me feel all Indiana Jonesy inside (laugh)
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Monsieur OUXX

I'm still stuck with the seagull.
Spoiler

I've mixed bits of worm with pink and red bread balls. Then I've given them to the seagull.
BUT: The seaugull eats it. Good. But I have stricly no clue of how the colors matter. And how I get the seagull to follow me. It's happy to eat the bread, full stop. There is no hint of what should be done next.
A general critics: There is no hint either of why the bird does not eat the bread as long as it has no worm in it, or why Indy won't mix the worm with the "uncolored" bread.
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Cassiebsg

Seagul hint:

Spoiler

Again, when in doubt try everything... ;)
Spoiler

You can do other mixes with the flowers... mix away! :)
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Monsieur OUXX

OK I've finished the game but I really think there are a lot of interactions missing. The mere fact that the order in which you use the objects onto one another is a big problem (use A onto B does not give the same result as use B onto A).
 

Gabarts

In fact that's a programming bug I wasn't able to solve, even if I've tried many solutions. I'll give the source code to AprilSkies in the future, maybe there is some hidden mistake in the code. That problem is when you have all the feed and crumbs and flowers and return no interactions... I know. Unfortunately there's no solution for that bug at the moment.

Dropped Monocle Games

Man, I was playing this last night and got stuck in the first room... I can't find the wallet anywhere!

Cassiebsg

Quote from: Soxbrooker on Sun 28/12/2014 11:23:51
I can't find the wallet anywhere!

Pixel hunting:
Spoiler

Look very very closely around the bedroom...
Extra hint:
Spoiler

...window.
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Crosco

Quote from: Soxbrooker on Sun 28/12/2014 11:23:51
Man, I was playing this last night and got stuck in the first room... I can't find the wallet anywhere!

Puuuh, thought I was the only one because nobody complained. :-[


EDIT:
Argh, Monsieur OUXX already complained in the first posting. I missed that because I just read the "game finsihed" thread and didn't realized that this was another thread listed in "unread posts".

Jen_78

A pixel hunt on the very first screen of the game?  No thanks.  Deleting this game.  Sad because I was really excited to play a new Indy game.  Pixel hunts ruin games.

Radiant

Quote from: Jen_78 on Tue 30/12/2014 07:50:14
A pixel hunt on the very first screen of the game?  No thanks.  Deleting this game.  Sad because I was really excited to play a new Indy game.  Pixel hunts ruin games.

I'm seconding this. Sorry, guys.

Gabarts

If you don't like pixel hunting just don't play the game and please don't comment. Hidden book items in Last Crusade Venice were pixel hunting and they were basic items for the Nazi guards and for the plane. Nowadays adventure games are too easy to play and with many many hints.

@Jen_78

I see you are newbie. With 0 experience in AGS. Before leaving futile comments like that, respect the work of other people and think.

Gabarts

Maybe in next version I can put a big wallet attached behind the bookcase, or maybe in the fridge... I bet is easier to find without wasting much time...

Monsieur OUXX

Quote from: Gabarts on Tue 06/01/2015 15:45:47
Maybe in next version I can put a big wallet attached behind the bookcase, or maybe in the fridge...

Hey Gabbarts, I understand that it is very difficult to hear such rough critics about a game you spent so much effort into making. I'm not sure how I would react if someone said "I'm just going to uninstall this game" about my baby.
It's true, Last Crusade had a lot of pixel-hunting. So, if you made the choice of including pixel-hunting by design into your game, because you think pixel-hunting is cool, then keep it like that.
But if you're just trying to mimic LC, then you need to understand that most people consider that pixel hunting was bad design choice even at the time. Pixel-hunting is the bad part of point n' clicks.
You don't need to have pixel-hunting to make the game difficult. Just add more interactions and subtle hints, and I guarantee you can make it more difficult, longer, and more satisfying when the player solves the puzzles! This way everyone will love you game and your game will have extra value because it will take some time and (non-irritating) thinking to complete.
 

Gabarts

No, you are totally wrong.

First, I don't care at all about negative comments.
Second, I really didn't spend effort in making this. I mean, at the beginning maybe... was very hard to understand the coding part and the software.

But it's a known attitude of noobie people leaving negative comments without critics and clear explanations on how to improve and solve the mistakes. That guy is one of them, people with few abilities...

If I've used the almost invisible pixel hunting (like I've explained in my very first posts) is because I was thinking about the original Indy when making my game and then went on completing the game without care too much attention. It's also because I didn't know anything about coding and made all by myself.

I had many other projects of mine during the making of this adventure, so didn't pay much attention to all details and reactions... but now something is been improved thanks to the good critics. As for the bad ones, I repeat, is a noobie attitude.

Cassiebsg

I really don't want to add more wood to the fire but...
Spoiler

Why you dissing a new member who criticizes that he/she doesn't like pixel hunting? You have absolutely no knowledge of who this person is. What makes one not be a "noobie" and have the right to speak it's mind? Does one need to have made a game or two, before his or hers opinion can be valid?

I don't like pixel hunting either, had you not a overhotspot "help", then I would have gave up on it also, or waited for a walktrough. Even with the overhotspot, it's hard to spot the stuff when they aren't bigger than a pixel or two.
I found the wallet by pixel hunting, cause I wasn't allowed to leave the house without it, had I been allowed I wouldn't have found it.
The red flower was "oh, there's something there" and the other one I was going crazy to find it, and only cause I knew there were two cause Monsieur OUXX had mentioned it, so I knew I needed one more flower.

Adventure games are more enjoyable if you don't need to comb for stuff, and rather make you use your brain matter to solve the problems (like the trunk puzzle).

Just take the criticism as "do less pixel hunting, and more intelligent puzzles" and we'll all be more happy.
Doesn't mean you can't hide stuff, but then give clues either visual, spoken or sound related, so you can help the player to find the stuff. Could be for instance a timer, that if a person has checked all obvious hotspots and some not so obvious, but after some time has not stumble into that spot, then Indy could have said something like "I remember there was something around the window..." or "uhm... this flower smells familiar" (after the player passes by it for the 10th time without noticing it...

Now go make part 2, cause we're waiting for it! :)
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Gabarts

Right...

But I was clear since the beginning... I said that this was like a test to learn AGS. I'm a beginner with coding and programming stuff etc etc... and pixel hunting was a direct consequence of this.

Then someone helped me with coding, learned something new and tried to improve my game. And slowly I'm trying to make the game cleaner and playable.

But the problem is another. When I play a game and I don't like it, I don't go in a forum or the game site, complaining and saying this is bad, no thanks, deleting the game... I just delete the game. It's different instead if I try to give some active suggestions. In another italian forum I received lot of corrections and suggestions (and they were clearly founding bugs in the game) but they never said: Ok, this is shit, deleted!

Sorry but this is kinda like youtube videos, with plenty of kids commenting and offending each other.

Snarky

I always think that "constructive criticism" is more a matter of attitude for the person being criticized than of the criticism itself.

Quote from: Jen_78 on Tue 30/12/2014 07:50:14
A pixel hunt on the very first screen of the game?  No thanks.  Deleting this game.  Sad because I was really excited to play a new Indy game.  Pixel hunts ruin games.

... is a pretty harsh comment (and it's just a fact of life that if you create something and make it public, some people are going to say harsh things about it), but there's plenty of information in there to learn from, if you're open to it:

-The Indy theme is appealing
-The thing you need to find on the first screen (a wallet, is it?) is difficult to locate for (as it turns out) many players
-Players REALLY HATE pixel hunts
-The start of the game is crucial to hook players. You might get away with an unfair puzzle later in the game, but if the first impression is negative, potential players will often just give up

Anyway, if this problem is just because it was your first try and you weren't being that careful about it, what do you care? You made a game that has problems because you didn't try that hard, and so some people don't like it. Why should that offend you?

Monsieur OUXX

I think we should stop this conversation now : gabarts has given his reasons and explained his reactions. My only concern is that if we continue the thread will get locked by moderators, and players will never be able to get hints and tips for the game :)
 

Andail

As long as people stick to the topic, and don't resort to personal attacks or just pointless flaming, then feel free to have heated discussions. There's no rule that everybody must be friends and always say positive things. Providing and receiving criticism is a huge part of being creative, so we should take every opportunity to practise it.

Like Snarky said, there's plenty to learn even from a blunt and poorly elaborated comment such as Jen_78's.

Cassiebsg

I wasn't going to add anything more to this, but I just have to make a little comment here, sorry :-[ :

Quote from: Gabarts on Tue 06/01/2015 20:35:25
When I play a game and I don't like it, I don't go in a forum or the game site, complaining and saying this is bad, no thanks, deleting the game... I just delete the game.

I'm on the side of "bad criticisms" is still better than no feedback at all.

Ranting:
Spoiler

Cause at least you know what some think of your game/art/etc, and you can either go the "I don't care, this is how I do it, and if you don't like it it's not my problem" or or can go "Oh! That's why? What can I do about it? Can I make it better? Can I avoid this in the future, even if I don't change anything in this version?" etc.
I know we all want a pat on the back, with a "great job, that's great..." and hear how we are genius... but lets face it, most of us aren't genius, we just do the best we can and hope that's good enough, and then try to do better the next time.
That's all we can do and criticism goal is just that, to help up get better.

However we seem to have been raised in the "if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing" world... which is really a shame, cause it's stopping us from growing and be better...
[close]

Now back to our favorite Indy? (nod)

EDIT: Please PM if you also need the feel to rant. (nod)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Michael2968

I am at the point of the game with the
Spoiler
seagul and I have the 2 flowers and the bread crumbs. I know I need to get a fish and an apple but I'm not sure how to get them.
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I would appreciate if someone could give me a hint.

Thanks,
Michael


Cassiebsg

Quote from: Michael2968 on Thu 08/01/2015 22:07:32
I am at the point of the game with the
Spoiler
seagul and I have the 2 flowers and the bread crumbs. I know I need to get a fish and an apple but I'm not sure how to get them.
[close]
I would appreciate if someone could give me a hint.

Thanks,
Michael

Dead on hints...
Spoiler

Check the pole (near the seagull) for the fish and the fruit stand (pixel hunt) for the apple (it's green).
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Hope it helps. :)
Spoiler
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Michael2968

Thanks for your help Cassie. I now have
Spoiler
the fish, the crumbs, the two flowers and the worm. I've combined the flowers with the crumbs and the worm and fed both mixtures to the seagull but I'm not sure what to do next.
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If anyone could give me a hint in the right direction I would appreciate it.

Thanks,
Michael

Cassiebsg

Quote from: Michael2968 on Fri 09/01/2015 12:27:37
I've combined the flowers with the crumbs and the worm and fed both mixtures to the seagull but I'm not sure what to do next.[/spoiler] If anyone could give me a hint in the right direction I would appreciate it.

Another dead hint:
Spoiler

Try mixing a bit more... ;)
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Michael2968

Thanks again Cassie I appreciate all your help. That
Spoiler
puzzle with mixing things did seem to be the hardest part of the game for me. Do you know how to get the highest score in the game? I got a score of 90.[/hide}
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Cassiebsg

Quote from: Michael2968 on Sat 10/01/2015 02:25:33
Thanks again Cassie I appreciate all your help. That
Spoiler
Do you know how to get the highest score in the game? I got a score of 90.
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@Michael
Spoiler

No, I got 80. (roll)
Did you got the book?
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Michael2968

Hi Cassie if you mean
Spoiler
the book in the first room then yes I did get that book
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When you were on the
Spoiler
roof did you open both trap doors after you fell down and died in the first one and restored?
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Cassiebsg

Quote from: Michael2968 on Sat 10/01/2015 14:42:34
Hi Cassie if you mean
Spoiler
the book in the first room then yes I did get that book
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When you were on the
Spoiler
roof did you open both trap doors after you fell down and died in the first one and restored?
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Spoiler

Yes, that's the book I was talking about... I never got it. :-[

Oh?! Didn't know it was possible to die! 8-0
So no, I only opened the second one... not cause I was "clairvoyant" or had a feeling... I just happened to be at the 2nd one when I figure out how to open it, and then got in... did wonder why there were 2 and if I had missed anything there... now I know. (laugh) Good thing too, cause I hadn't saved... (roll)
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There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Monsieur OUXX

This is so frustrating. I wish Gabarts would send us the sources so that the comunity could fix all the bugs EDIT: most bugs fixed in version 2.5 and insert the relevant hints where appropriate.
 

Gabarts

Quote from: Monsieur OUXX on Sat 10/01/2015 17:03:14
This is so frustrating. I wish Gabarts would send us the sources so that the comunity could fix all the bugs and insert the relevant hints where appropriate.

Which community are you talking about? The team of Indiana Jones and the Seven cities of Gold? Why are you so interested in the source code? You started this thread complaining with a shopping list of possible bugs and you go on and on. I've kindly sent the source code to one of your team, he asked me privately for that (don't know if he has received anyway). Relevant hints?!? If you weren't able to finish the game in 1 hour, well, it's not bugs but pretty decent puzzle design, I would say.

The new version of the game has no pixel hunting anymore, then all hints have been found, I really cannot understand your noisy complaining Monsieur.

To finish the game 100% you need to use the Shears with the clothes. That's all.

Monsieur OUXX

Quote from: Gabarts on Sat 10/01/2015 19:13:08
Which community are you talking about?
I just meant the AGS community. I suppose the person to whom you sent the code is selmiak? Well we have a project in common but don't worry, if you've sent him the source code privately, he didn't share it with me (and that's perfectly normal). I didn't even ask him because it's your decision and nobody else's.
I'm interested in the code to help fixing the bugs you said you couldn't fix ("use X on Y", background speech, no unhandled interactions EDIT: most bugs fixed in version 2.5, non-skippable cutscenes, etc.) but if you think that's irrelevant then it's none of my business and I'll stop complaining.

=======

Hints&Tips topic :
Spoiler

Out of sheer curiosity, what is the hint that tells you that mixing the two flowers is a deadly mix? Is it something from the Italian popular culture? Like every Italian kid knows that mixing those flowers is toxic? For example, in France we know that thrush is very toxic and shouldn't be in a home with kids or pets.
Or is there an in-game hint about mixing the flowers?

[close]
 

Gabarts

Monsieur, I'm more interested in this problem at this moment. Check this forum thread, it seems like a compatibility problem between XP and Windows 7.

FORUM italian

The point C written by UtDefault user. Weird problems that I never experienced. Maybe is related with the 16-bit thing compatibility...

As for the bugs, sorry, I tought you found new ones... those have been all solved, i updated the game 2 times recently. I managed to solve, there was a mistake in the code. Now it's version 2.5

Monsieur OUXX

Quote from: Gabarts on Sun 11/01/2015 12:53:07
The point C written by UtDefault user.
Well to me that's the weirdest thing in your game : you use the "pick up" action as "use with". You keep saying it's a bug in AGS, but it's most likely simply a bug in the end-user scripting (i.e. you or the guy who made the Verbs module you're using) of the Verbs interface. I would be very surprised if it wasn't just a confusion at some stage between "eModeUse", "eModeInteract" and "eModePickUp" somewhere in your interface scripting.

I'm pretty sure someone experienced with AGS could fix that rather easily. If not, I shall apologize thoroughly. I strongly recommend you send your source files to someone you trust and who is a bit experienced with not only AGS, but specifically with AGS scripting.

 

AprilSkies

(prolly the tech forums are more suitable for this... but anyway...)

I already helped Gabarts giving him a simple script for making a 9 buttons combination (that I think he used in the last puzzle).

So, if you like, Gab, I'm available to handle your entire project and fix stuff. I'm quite experienced in AGS Scripting :-D

What's is really important is that you build a issues/bugs/glitches tracker to figure out all the stuff to fix and "how" to fix it (for "how" I mean the expected behaviour). It could also be a simple table with bug ID, room, what happens, what should be the correct behaviour.

And talking about this I think that, a Scripting guy aside, you really need to find experienced agsers who plays your game and help you to figure out what's wrong. As Monsieur OUXX pointed out here and in the game thread, it's not only "bugs". I see the effort you're putting in fixing "bugs", but I think that there are other things that need to be fixed.
This is why I suggest to find experienced agsers that plays it: for "expeienced agsers" I mean guys who knows what a "good game experience" is and what should be the right behaviour of all the stuff. For example, reading this thread it's clear that what an ags veteran (MonsieurOUXX) found "weird", it seems not so weird to you.
Trust in agsers. If they'll suggest you that a puzzle, an interaction or a dialogue makes no sense, fix it. Those things are even more important that fixing "simple" bugs. Those are what Monsieur OUXX called "pseudo bugs".
Collect all the issues they find, sum them up in a table and write down "how" to fix. Then me (or someone else, not important) will easly fix. You're using a simple 9 verbs, with only one "custom script (the combo-puzzle I gave you), so an expert AGSer will fix it in a blink of an eye.

Monsieur OUXX also pointed out that this game has potential (and it's also about our favourite hero), so it's a pity to spoil the game experience with not properly polished stuff.

www.apemarina.altervista.org

Gabarts

As soon I have time I'll send you the source, I really don't know, I started from the DEMO game and build all over that... :)

Cassiebsg

{quote]
use the Shears with the clothes. That's all.
[/quote]

May I ask what that accomplishes? It's not needed to finish the game, and I can't see why Indy would do that (am assuming you're talking about the clothes hanging on the rooftop...
Just curious, that's all. :)
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