Topic: (NSFW) Sisters' Secret (Explicit Adult Content)

[Jack]

Is there enough meat (no pun intended...maybe) to the game to ensure a full, if different, experience to the porn version?

The meat in the game seemed to provide a full experience to its users.

[Dave Gilbert]

Is that how it's done? I admit that my experience/knowledge of anime porn games is somewhat lacking.

I'd suggest contacting some of those other devs and pick their brains. Your game looks a lot less porny then theirs, so I don't think you should have a problem. Especially since Steam is, shall we say, not very vigilant about quality control these days.

[Matti]

Apropos "less porny": I must really wonder why you can so light-heartedly discuss where you can properly dispatch some porn games while this is a product of someone with despicable rape fantasies (homepage and all)

Keeping in mind the probability of spoiling things with some AGS members or moderators, I still have to post this as it really bugs the hell out of me and I thought that this wouldn't happen within this community.

[Mandle]

Apropos "less porny": I must really wonder why you can so light-heartedly discuss where you can properly dispatch some porn games while this is a product of someone with despicable rape fantasies (homepage and all)

Keeping in mind the probability of spoiling things with some AGS members or moderators, I still have to post this as it really bugs the hell out of me and I thought that this wouldn't happen within this community.

To be fair to the game, it lets the player choose what kind of person they will be...You don't have to rape anyone...

That's a lot better than most similar kinds of games that force the player down that path.

Also:

"despicable rape fantasies"...well...as long as they remain fantasies then who is hurt?

Stephen King doesn't go around in real life trying to kill people with an ax either (that I know of)...He just writes about it...

[Jack]

Apropos "less porny": I must really wonder why you can so light-heartedly discuss where you can properly dispatch some porn games while this is a product of someone with despicable rape fantasies (homepage and all)

Keeping in mind the probability of spoiling things with some AGS members or moderators, I still have to post this as it really bugs the hell out of me and I thought that this wouldn't happen within this community.

What reaction would you have if the protagonist of an AGS game could murder someone in the game?

None at all?

[LimpingFish]

Apropos "less porny": I must really wonder why you can so light-heartedly discuss where you can properly dispatch some porn games while this is a product of someone with despicable rape fantasies (homepage and all)

Keeping in mind the probability of spoiling things with some AGS members or moderators, I still have to post this as it really bugs the hell out of me and I thought that this wouldn't happen within this community.

Well, also keep in mind that most of us haven't played it, and are also unaware of the developers outside work. It is very unfortunate that a lot of hentai (and, for that matter, regular porn) seems obsessed with dominating women to the point of rape, but...actually, I don't know how to finish that sentence without initiating a very complex debate, resulting in much spittle and gnashing of teeth from all involved. And nobody wants that!

What reaction would you have if the protagonist of an AGS game could murder someone in the game?

None at all?

Let's not go down that road. The argument that vile crime "A" is equal to/greater than vile crime "B", therefore people must react accordingly, is one of the more pointless internet pissing matches. As is the one where objecting to content one finds offensive automatically equals censorship and is therefore evil. Let's nip that one in bud right now.

[Jack]

Let's not go down that road. The argument that vile crime "A" is equal to/greater than vile crime "B", therefore people must react accordingly, is one of the more pointless internet pissing matches. As is the one where objecting to content one finds offensive automatically equals censorship and is therefore evil. Let's nip that one in bud right now.

No, it's a double standard, it comes 1:1 from the media, and it's bullshit. I don't care how many times that has been pointed out in the past, it's still bullshit.

[Matti]

To be fair to the game, it lets the player choose what kind of person they will be...You don't have to rape anyone...

What reaction would you have if the protagonist of an AGS game could murder someone in the game?

I know that it's a choice in the game (which I haven't played) but that doesn't change the fact that the idea of the choice to rape women as well as the graphical execution of that requires some sort of pleasure in doing so. I wasn't surprised seeing that I was right as I suspected this from the beginning. Really, no surprise there.

Stephen King doesn't go around in real life trying to kill people with an ax either (that I know of)...He just writes about it...

You're right and I'm not saying that CherrySock is going around raping people. But here's the thing:

1. There's a huge difference in how you present a thing. Why do you harm people? What people do you harm? Is there a murderer running around killing people or are you the murderer and find enjoyment in doing so? I find all these tortureporn stories disgusting as well.

2. There's a very huge difference between killing a person for some reason (usually there is one and you have enemies of some sort who want to harm you, but that's another topic) and raping women if you like to. The second case is a product of the disgusting way million of men look at half of the planet's population with all brutal consequences.

...well...as long as they remain fantasies then who is hurt?

Yeah, I'm (somewhat) happy if something like this stays a fantasy and doesn't end in action. Still, the fantasy itself (or the overall thoughts that lead to it) is the problem and precedes the behavior towards people (well, women that is). And it doesn't need actual raping for women to receive a shitload of physical and psychological violence all the time all over the world, due to how so many men look at them.

[Jack]

Still, the fantasy itself (or the overall thoughts that lead to it) is the problem and precedes the behavior towards people (well, women that is). And it doesn't need actual raping for women to receive a shitload of physical and psychological violence all the time all over the world, due to how so many men look at them.

People's fantasies are the problem? You claim they lead to physical and mental abuse against women. What do you base that on?

Turns out that a large number of people who fantasize about rape are women, says wikipedia.

[faerieevenstar]

I don't think I'm going to download this.. probably ever. Even for free. As a survivor of rape, the idea of this abhors me. It's not something to joke about. I've been through ten years of therapy and I'm still agoraphobic. Why on earth would ANYONE put that in a game?? And, fyi, before you say I don't like it because it's sex with women, and because I'm female I wouldn't enjoy it, I LOVE Leisure Suit Larry, and other games of that ilk, and I'm pansexual, so it would appeal to me.. bar the f***ing rape!! I also like an option in game to be good or evil to an extent.. but with graphic sex scenes (I'm guessing) which are potentially assault, I don't think that's ok.

I* don't like to bring my personal experiences into stuff like this on the whole, but as game developers, you guys need to know a LOT of people of all genders are survivors of abuse, and this type of gameplay is very insensitive to the severe trauma we have been through..  I know that here in the UK, nearly half a million adults are sexually assaulted in England and Wales each year. If you think about that, it's a large percentage of your potential buyers.

I don't want to whine or preach, just putting it out there.

[LimpingFish]

Okay, let's everybody calm down for a moment.

Since few, if any, of us have actually played the game, and Matti's original complaint was that this was a product from someone who may or may not see rape as an acceptable sexual fantasy (and therefore should not be encouraged or discussed in anything other than a negative way), has anyone witnessed an actual graphic scene of rape in the game? Judging from the screenshots available, the game seems to have some explicit BDSM content, combined with the usual male domination fantasy (which, right or wrong, is a common facet of modern pornography, whatever the medium...)

It doesn't float my boat, and I find it a particularly distasteful form of titillation, but it has it's audience.

Rape is a horrifying crime. What I've described above may be offensive to some, even disgusting, but it's not a crime. Again, I haven't played the game, I'm only commenting on the available screenshots on the developers website.

Now, to put on my mod hat for a moment, I'll going to allow this discussion to continue only if it directly relates to the game itself. This is not the place for a broader debate on how society views certain areas of pornography, and it's certainly not the place for us to tackle a subject a serious as rape.

[Jack]

Technically what happens in the game is blackmail. Not sure what the correct term is, possibly sexual coercion. The definition of rape varies. Some people consider sexual harassment a form of sexual assault, while the definition of assault is quite clear.

What I think should be kept in mind is that rape and rape fantasy are not the same thing. Like I stated previously, the game's negative path is not my thing, but I think the only place these kind of things should be expressed is in fantasy and art.

[Mandle]

Technically what happens in the game is blackmail. Not sure what the correct term is, possibly sexual coercion.

Yes, I think this is an important point. I have only played the demo, but that was enough to see that if you choose the "asshole" path then you can hold incriminating evidence over the girls' heads and blackmail them into having sex with you.

While this is clearly a crime, a very sleazy thing to do, and a big no-no, it's not a violent attack and rape like what many people are probably imagining happens.

Similar themes were used in mainstream TV dramas like "Dallas" and "Vegas", and even daytime soaps like "Days Of Our Lives"...although the actual act was not graphically shown of course. But the morally repulsive act of sexual blackmail remains unchanged whether the act is shown or not. I'm just saying that the themes in this game are probably not quite as extreme as what many are imagining: It's no "Naked Fear"...

[Dave Gilbert]

OK. After looking at the screenshots on the website, this puts a new spin on things. Going to try and stick to the facts instead of getting into a moral debate (which is better served by people more intelligent than me).

Earlier I posted examples of anime porn games that made it through Steam. Huniepop, for example, is a ridiculous cheesecake-fest, but everything that happens in that game is between consenting adults and everyone was willing and eager to participate. It's very sex-positive and focuses on the fun. Judging by the screenshots posted on the Sisters' Secret website, words like "fun", "willing" and "eager" are... um, not the right words. I can see why Steam wouldn't want this type of game on their site. I wouldn't want this game on my site, either.

This isn't to say you can't find an audience for this stuff. It's that you are going to have a much harder time of it. And if you are looking for a distributor to sell it for you? That just compounds the problem even further.

[CherrySock]

Whoa, that's a heated discussion going on here.
The only thing I have to say: you've been warned about the content, don't play, if you don't like it.

The game is available on dlsite now: http://www.dlsite.com/maniax/work/=/product_id/RJ182844.html
It's a japaneses site, so the product is censored there. But you can easily remove it (visit my website for instructions). Cheers!

[Furwerkstudio]

Kind of sad, and really defeating when wanting to make any game, when people have a full blow hiss fit about "rape fantasies" in a b grade indie game as offensive when there are games that allows one to eat baby guts in a sewer made out of human flesh of innocent people in Triple A gaming.

It's just fantasy, it does not hurt anyone.

Of course I wonder if a lot of this stuff is really thinly veiled Japanese hate too, as a lot of people are turning their noses at them, visual novels and the whole medium because it does not meet their "high standards."

[Khris]

The guy that never gets back to his technical questions lectures us how rape is not real, just like sewers made of flesh.

[NickyNyce]

I do think that there a million ways to upset someone in video games. War games, killing innocent people, murder, blackmail, kidnapping, peeping toms. These are all real things that happen in the world, but for some reason they all get a free pass. Is this because it's just a game? Is it because you're the one trying to catch and or kill the bad guy? Should all these games be deemed bad? After all, I'm sure lots and lots of people have had experiences in the real world with these types of things, but yet there is plenty to read, watch and play.

Just my opinion, but it's very easy to say, nope, I don't like this and not play it. Like people have said, this is a video game, not real life. Shouldn't all books, movies and sitcoms be frowned upon too? I don't think you can pick one thing and not everything.

I have actually thought about making a game where you're the murderer. Am I insane for thinking about this? Maybe? But it's a different spin on, I'm the detective trying to kill or catch the murderer. People used to cheer when Jason in friday the 13th and Michael myers killed people in the movie theaters.

Im sorry if I sound insensitive.

[CherrySock]

Hello guys

I did a short trailer for the game:

I also started to work on a new one. It's called "Sex & the Sea". Learn more on my site: http://cherrysock.com/?page_id=1211

[MUFFINinc]

lol this is why I usually save porn game discussions for anonymous message boards.  As to this game I am curious to play it just for the novelty; you don't really see that many adventure games that are just outright porn, but I now find myself kind of wondering why not.  Downloaded the demo, will give it a whirl.

I have actually thought about making a game where you're the murderer.

I've wanted to do that, too.  If you think about it most adventure game protagonists tend to be a little on the antisocial side anyway; these games constantly have the player destroying property or stealing things or doing generally mean things to innocent people.  Murder isn't that much of a stretch, and it would make for some interesting gameplay.