Author Topic: Trumpmageddon  (Read 87197 times)

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #360 on: 21 Aug 2017, 07:20 »
Forrest Gump was based on a book?
Daaamn. I feel like I should've known that.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #361 on: 21 Aug 2017, 10:28 »
Forrest Gump was based on a book?
Daaamn. I feel like I should've known that.

Yeah, although the movie is probably better as it cuts out some the more unbelievable parts of the book like
Spoiler: ShowHide
Gump having an orangutan friend, Sue, he learns how to talk to, and goes to space together with as a NASA astronaut, ending up stranded on a Pacific island for years due to a malfunction during reentry, living with a cannibal tribe, lead by a chess-playing chief whose pride won't allow him to eat Gump until he beats him at chess. Yeah, Gump is also a chess savant.


There is even a book: Forrest Gump 2, by the same author (Winston Groom I believe) which is quite good and Gump even
Spoiler: ShowHide
meets Tom Hanks at The Rainbow Room in New York, shares a table with him, and tells him his life story. Hanks replies that it's such an amazing story someone should make a movie of it one day. Years later the movie starring Tom Hanks wins the academy award and Hanks calls Gump up to the stage to accept it with them. And I'm pretty sure you can guess what Gump says into the microphone when it's his turn to speak. Hint: He had drunk a lot of Seven-Up again...


The sequel was written after the movie became a hit (as you could tell if you have read the hidden section above) and I think it was quite a good sequal/ending to the adventures of the dude, but probably a bit too depressing to make into a movie for the most part...

Fun Fact Bonus:
Spoiler: ShowHide
The original book of Forrest Gump is the only book I have read completely through in Japanese. The reason being is that the book only uses basic kanji and even those have furi-gana (small hiragana pronounciation next to the kanji). All this is to simulate the fact that the book is written in the first person. The English version contains grammar/spelling mistakes to simulate it having been written by Gump himself, but that would make it impossible to read in Japanese so they dumbed down the kanji as an alternative. Damn clever idea, and it meant I could read it too!

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #362 on: 21 Aug 2017, 10:45 »
I don't want to argue about these things. I don't think you're refuting what I'm saying, I think we just disagree about what's important.
We can certainly have different opinions about what's important.

But we do have the same facts. And two facts about the Dow Jones are that (1) it's a measure of the stock market, not the overall economy; and (2) it is not directly influenced by the government.

So the question is, are you (A) starting from the assumption that you like this politician, and searching specifically for data that supports that, or (B) looking at all of the data and use that to decide whether or not that politician is doing a good job.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #363 on: 21 Aug 2017, 12:08 »
It always amazes me when people try to attribute the economic situation to the current government. The ecomony develops slowly, and political decisions mostly have long term effects on the economy. If the economic data looks good it's most likely because of decisions made during Obama's (or maybe even Bush's) presidency - long term effects. Believing that Donald Trump can have a notable impact on the US economy after less than a year, when he didn't even bring any large reforms on the way, is completely naive. And any economic data that people bring up to make his presidency appear good or bad is pretty much useless. Unless he starts a war or makes any revolutionary changes to the system, it will take many years before you can even try to measure the ecomonic effects of Trump's presidency.

It's also no good to limit your view to the economy and international relations like Gurok does - that may be convenient if you want to support Trump, but it leaves out the worst parts. The country appears to be more divided than in a long time, partly because of an election campaign full of hate and lies. The current US government seems to be unable to bring any real reforms on the way, despite having a large majority in the Congress - this results in a political stagnation that you wouldn't expect with such clear majorities, and that says a lot about Trump's negotiating abilities. (One could argue that it's better if they get nothing done though... but that's not the point) Trump also hasn't delivered on his promise to fight corruption - instead he repealed anti-corruption rules.
See, you don't even have to bring up racism or minorities or his ridiculous lies to see that Trump's presidency is failing. Are the USA better off with Trump? I doubt it. The conflicts, both domestic and international, have become much more intense, and he appears to be too incompetent to improve the situation in any way.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #364 on: 21 Aug 2017, 12:15 »
Forrest Gump was based on a book?
Daaamn. I feel like I should've known that.

Yeah, although the movie is probably better as it cuts out some the more unbelievable parts of the book like
Spoiler: ShowHide
Gump having an orangutan friend, Sue, he learns how to talk to, and goes to space together with as a NASA astronaut, ending up stranded on a Pacific island for years due to a malfunction during reentry, living with a cannibal tribe, lead by a chess-playing chief whose pride won't allow him to eat Gump until he beats him at chess. Yeah, Gump is also a chess savant.


There is even a book: Forrest Gump 2, by the same author (Winston Groom I believe) which is quite good and Gump even
Spoiler: ShowHide
meets Tom Hanks at The Rainbow Room in New York, shares a table with him, and tells him his life story. Hanks replies that it's such an amazing story someone should make a movie of it one day. Years later the movie starring Tom Hanks wins the academy award and Hanks calls Gump up to the stage to accept it with them. And I'm pretty sure you can guess what Gump says into the microphone when it's his turn to speak. Hint: He had drunk a lot of Seven-Up again...


The sequel was written after the movie became a hit (as you could tell if you have read the hidden section above) and I think it was quite a good sequal/ending to the adventures of the dude, but probably a bit too depressing to make into a movie for the most part...

Fun Fact Bonus:
Spoiler: ShowHide
The original book of Forrest Gump is the only book I have read completely through in Japanese. The reason being is that the book only uses basic kanji and even those have furi-gana (small hiragana pronounciation next to the kanji). All this is to simulate the fact that the book is written in the first person. The English version contains grammar/spelling mistakes to simulate it having been written by Gump himself, but that would make it impossible to read in Japanese so they dumbed down the kanji as an alternative. Damn clever idea, and it meant I could read it too!

This one post, is more interesting than this entire thread. (nod)

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #365 on: 21 Aug 2017, 13:58 »
I don't want to argue about these things. I don't think you're refuting what I'm saying, I think we just disagree about what's important.
We can certainly have different opinions about what's important.

But we do have the same facts. And two facts about the Dow Jones are that (1) it's a measure of the stock market, not the overall economy; and (2) it is not directly influenced by the government.

I think you've missed some details here. Your first point might be true, but it isn't relevant. Sure, it is not the overall economy, but it has an impact. I made a summary of the key points of the article where I mentioned something similar. Your second point is just not correct, sorry, unless you're trying to argue that it isn't direct enough. No, it's not a planned market economy.

So the question is, are you (A) starting from the assumption that you like this politician, and searching specifically for data that supports that, or (B) looking at all of the data and use that to decide whether or not that politician is doing a good job.

OK, it sounds like you're projecting now. I didn't go looking for news articles to support an argument. I listed a few of the notable things I'd heard or read in the media recently, or that Trump himself tweeted about. I think it's actually YOU who started with an assumption that Trump is terrible and sought out any opinion piece you could find that downplayed the role of what I listed.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #366 on: 21 Aug 2017, 14:06 »
OK, it sounds like you're projecting now. I didn't go looking for news articles to support an argument. I listed a few of the notable things I'd heard or read in the media recently, or that Trump himself tweeted about. I think it's actually YOU who started with an assumption that Trump is terrible and sought out any opinion piece you could find that downplayed the role of what I listed.

Um, it's not hard to find evidence that Trump is terrible, he only goes and does something awful every couple of days, and has done since... well... forever. I'm not sure how anyone could possibly justify not loathing him. It's not an assumption if his terrible nature is on display constantly. You'd have to completely ignore everything the man does to believe otherwise.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #367 on: 21 Aug 2017, 14:55 »
Your second point is just not correct, sorry
In that case, it should be easy for you to answer: what, specifically, has the current government done that has increased the Dow?

Quote
I listed a few of the notable things I'd heard or read in the media recently
So please read up on the background of these notable things. I mean, earlier you called it a specific accomplishment to make North Korea back down from its threats, but if you look at their history you'l note that NK has always backed down from its threats in the last decade.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #368 on: 21 Aug 2017, 15:31 »
I mean, earlier you called it a specific accomplishment to make North Korea back down from its threats, but if you look at their history you'l note that NK has always backed down from its threats in the last decade.

Well, except for this rather notable and baffling incident:

November 23, 2010: North Korea fired artillery at South Korea's Greater Yeonpyeong island in the Yellow Sea and South Korea returned fire. Two South Korean marines and two South Korean civilians were killed, six were seriously wounded, and ten were treated for minor injuries. About seventy South Korean houses were destroyed. North Korean casualties were unknown, but Lee Hong-gi, the Director of Operations of the South Korean Joint Chiefs of Staff (JCS), claimed that as a result of the South Korean retaliation "there may be a considerable number of North Korean casualties".

I remember seeing this live on the news here in Japan and thinking "Oh shit, here we go... The Korean War is back on!"

And then... nothing... except for a bunch of talking... Well, nothing that us, the public, knew about anyways. I'm assuming there were backdoor communications between both sides that prevented war at this point...

But...

Personally, if I lived in a country that had just gotten shelled to that extent and countrymen's lives were lost and my government did (apparently) nothing, I think I would feel pretty pissed off...

Yeah, not really on point with this whole discussion except maybe as semi-proof that NK saber-rattling sometimes is not just empty threats.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #369 on: 22 Aug 2017, 07:04 »
Your second point is just not correct, sorry
In that case, it should be easy for you to answer: what, specifically, has the current government done that has increased the Dow?

I don't think I need to. If the Dow were plummeting, it might indicate that another recession is on the way.

Quote
I listed a few of the notable things I'd heard or read in the media recently
So please read up on the background of these notable things. I mean, earlier you called it a specific accomplishment to make North Korea back down from its threats, but if you look at their history you'l note that NK has always backed down from its threats in the last decade.

I'm very well aware of the background of these accomplishments. China was funding North Korea for a long time because China feared a unified Korea. Sentiment changed a couple of years ago, and these further sanctions are public acknowledgement.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #370 on: 22 Aug 2017, 07:37 »
Gurok, you must really admire Obama's efforts then, since Dow went up 140% during his presidency? Pretty much a straight line from his inauguration until today?

Oh, and what's more, he didn't just cut corporate taxes, which is the short-term way of making the stock market happy.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #371 on: 26 Aug 2017, 01:50 »
Trump signs an order to ban trans people from serving in the military today, and then when asked about Hurricane Harvey, he said "Good luck everybody." and continued to go on his, what, fiftieth vacation instead of, you know, preparing for a massive disaster.

America sure is better under his rule, isn't it.


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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #373 on: 27 Aug 2017, 04:15 »
America sure is better under his rule, isn't it.

I think some images from classic Simpsons really represent how I feel about Trump at the helm of America:

Trump Replaces Obama:


A Better Replacement For Trump:

 

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #374 on: 22 Sep 2017, 13:15 »
DOTARD!!! (laugh)

I'm betting Kim is pretty damn surprised at how many supporters are springing up on social media lauding his first-ever public speech seen by the world.

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #375 on: 23 Sep 2017, 02:39 »
DOTARD!!! (laugh)

I'm betting Kim is pretty damn surprised at how many supporters are springing up on social media lauding his first-ever public speech seen by the world.
It's pretty hard not to agree with basically everything he said in that speech. Trump has to go. I mean, Kim has to go, too, but let's just get things back to pre-Trump levels first.

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #376 on: 23 Sep 2017, 05:22 »
That's the beauty of democracy though - it is self correcting. Don't like Trump? Wait a few years. Don't like Kim? Well... :~(

Regarding North Korea, I really don't know what the correct approach is. Pushing them towards nuclear war is likely to get a lot of random people killed. However, turning on a bit of heat at least pushes NK's remaining trading partners (i.e. China) to apply destabilising economic pressure. Obama's approach of endless diplomacy at least preserved the status quo. I guess the game plan then is to wait 60 years for Kim to die and hope his son is better.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #377 on: 23 Sep 2017, 08:03 »
I guess the game plan then is to wait 60 years for Kim to die and hope his son is better.

60 years?! Have you seen the guy?! I'd give him another 20 odd, and that's being optimistic.

Seriously though: In my opinion, the thing about the Kim dynasty is that they are as much victims of brainwashing as the regular citizens are.

The citizens of North Korea are raised to believe that "Supreme Leader" is a god, and all that stands between them and destruction at the hands of the evil outside world.

And: "Supreme Leader" is raised to believe exactly the same. All Kim (and his father before him) has been told and observed since he was a toddler is that he, and only he, is capable of protecting his country and people from the chaos and evil that exists elsewhere in the world.

I don't see him as the Bond villain he is often portrayed as. I don't think he wants to get nuclear weapons so he can immediately start using them to crush his enemies underfoot. I think he sees this goal as the first necessary step to maintaining security for his country. After which time the country can start recovering in other vital internal ways. This is in fact what North Korea has been saying all along. And I don't think they are lying.

And I'm sure he is well-studied in the case of Mr. Hussein, where America and the U.N. put similar pressure on him to stop producing nerve gas weapons, and then, after he had complied, America went ahead and invaded Iraq anyway, toppled his regime, and he ended up at the end of a rope.

Now, I'm not suggesting that the world isn't a better place without Mr. Hussein, but that really wasn't a very wise way to set up a trusting relationship with future dictators with their hearts set on WMD programs.

Let's face it: NK already has nuclear weapons, just not yet the tech to mount them on long-range missiles, but if they really wanted to start using them ASAP they would have just loaded them on boats or subs (heavily shielded to avoid detection from satelites and other sensors), parked them close enough to Seoul, Tokyo, Los Angeles, New York, Washington etc. and set them off, while most of the NK army pours across the border into SK. An America crippled by even offshore nuclear strikes on one or multiple major cities would be in no shape to fight a war in SK where they would be killing more SK citizens than NK soldiers. And the nuclear alternative?! Yeah, China is really going to appreciate nukes going off just over the border and millions of their own citizens dying as a result. They would fire nukes at America and then it's game over for everyone.

Anyways, my point was that NK has nuclear weapons and, very soon they are going to be able to mount them on ICBMs. They are not going to give up on this goal. The only alternative is to start an unthinkably horrible war on the Korean Peninsula which would probably result in all-out nuclear war between China and America.

My personal solution would be to just let the baby have his bottle. He has it anyway. He needs it to feel secure. He knows the moment he uses it that security is gone.

Just let him have his nukes I say. It's a horrible solution to a horrible problem, but it's way better than the alternatives. And if Pakistan and India have managed not to blow each other up all these years then there is hope.

(This rant was not sponsered by Kim Jong Un and/or his regime. I personally think he is a pretty despicable, albiet brainwashed, human being and the world would probably be a better place without him. But reality is what it is. And look what happened in Iraq after the horrible strongman dictator was removed. Yeah... that didn't work out too well.)

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #378 on: 23 Sep 2017, 08:44 »
I guess the game plan then is to wait 60 years for Kim to die and hope his son is better.

60 years?! Have you seen the guy?! I'd give him another 20 odd, and that's being optimistic.

20 years...and then 40 years of the regime pretending he's not dead yet while they wait for Kim Jong Junior to grow up. (laugh)

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #379 on: 23 Sep 2017, 08:55 »

Just let him have his nukes I say. It's a horrible solution to a horrible problem, but it's way better than the alternatives. And if Pakistan and India have managed not to blow each other up all these years then there is hope.


Yeah, I guess I'd have to agree. I mean what else can the world do? Trump's approach is really a unique one, even for him. It almost makes you wonder if there is some ulterior motive - maybe give China a bit of anxiety in an effort to pacify them over the US's refocusing to the Far East?