Jibble

Author Topic: Trumpmageddon  (Read 86557 times)

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #540 on: 08 Jan 2021, 23:28 »
It's as ridiculous to draw an equivalence between BLM protesters and MAGA nutbars as it is to imply that Trump's populism meant that he had the support of the majority of Americans. He never did.
True, whenever people try to draw an equivalence between people killing others, and the people protesting the killings, I'm reminded of that classic Monty Pyhon quote:

I know I've posted it in the forums before, but it keeps being relevant, doesn't it?


Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #541 on: 09 Jan 2021, 00:10 »
Here is that pie, ladies and gentlemen! Careful, it is quite warm.

Spoiler: ShowHide


Now, as for the Trumpet, it seems this may have been the last straw, fortunately. A coup is distinctively unlikely - that is what you get when you spend your political career spitting on the shoes of your officer corps. Eleven days, and we are through the thick of it for now. Joy!

Life is also an adventure game, without a save option and one where regardless of what you do, you lose.
Although some dream of becoming immortal gods  (nod)

Oh, indeed. A pointless hunt, as in a way, each of us are. Actors in the great play, the game of games. We have our verbs and our appointed rooms, our views and our global variables, all to He who points and clicks, and it is all magnificence. It could be worse. We could all be in a particularly cruel Sierra game.
(I ought to write this sermon out some day and see if the vicar wants it.)

I don't want to be caught in the crossfire, but... can't we all just get along? :) I mean this is just a web forum.
Unfortunately, as long as someone misinterprets having a different opinion as an attack on their identity, it will always be impossible for us to get along.  (wrong)
And unfortunately that fight or flight response is built into us as humans. So we're destined to never get along... unless coincidentally we all like the same thing. Speaking of which, does anyone here like adventure games?  (laugh)

I disagree. There will always be something - something - that unites us over our differences, what-ever that may be. The question is finding it.

That is not to say that some differences are not impossible to reconcile or that it is a command to do so, since those differences and those limits are yours to decide - I doubt I could ever have drinks down the pub with an open Daeshite, and I shall not reconsider this - but all the same, it is important to try the thought, when the alternative is ever so much more simple and inviting. What bridges do you burn, and how many can you spare?

In this case, good old adventure games are far more important than the Trumpet's big mess of a political career. We can unify around that particular totem (presumably made to look like a mouse pointer), or at the very least around making fun of Mr Trump's ridiculous, guinea pig hair-cut.

Yes, please tone it down, Khris, and focus on arguments not persons. We've been over that particular ground many times before, anyway.

(It's awkward for me to play a double role of mod and participant in discussions like this. We should get a dedicated mod for this forum.)
The polarization and name-calling in US politics are awful, but the worst part of it is how their bipartisan politics and the mentality of their "debates" keep bleeding over to discussions outside the US.

As a Swede and a History buff, I can't say I would be surprised if the USA ceased to be a superpower in this century, with the numbers of wars they've fought and foreign interventions they've kinda been burning the candle in both ends and there's been hardly any focus on sustainability or longevity. Few empires have lasted more than a couple of centuries, and those that did focused strongly on building a strong infrastructure and cohesive governmental body, whereas, as some rando on the internet said, USA isn't even a full country, it's 50 tiny countries in a trenchcoat.

Part of it is, I am sure, the political prudency of never wasting a good crisis. Part of it, I am starting to think, is that a lot of the more vocal people simply forget that they are not in America. It has such a vast presence, which they have absorbed for so long, that I do imagine that it is simply difficult for them to see where it ends these days. Goodness me, pulled pork became trendy again in a heart-beat once Biff Yankee started eating it, after all.

As for the future of Pax America, I do believe it is waning. Empires are troublesome. They are very rarely planned from the start, they are usually held together with hope and bits of string and if history have anything to teach aspiring empires, it is that the best you can hope for as an empire is finding yourself in a position where you can end your days peacefully. An empire 'succeeds' by dismantling itself in an orderly manner and with enough of what matters most to it intact to have something to live on, and preferably being able to meet the next new empire on tolerable terms.
What happens now is unclear, but there is a great shift coming. It will be ugly, but such are all inevitabilities. Project Europe looks rather bleak, for one. Indeed, as for the United States specifically, one wonders if it would be a happier union if it was a union of smaller unions instead. One hears a lot of 'right-sizing' and what-not, after all.

If we get another round of Trumpeting in '24, on the other hand, I will be very vexed.

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #542 on: 09 Jan 2021, 00:19 »
It looks like Trump's Twitter account has now been permanently suspended.

Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #543 on: 09 Jan 2021, 00:26 »
It looks like Trump's Twitter account has now been permanently suspended.

I'm glad the committee for shutting stable doors finally decided to take action.

KyriakosCH

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #544 on: 09 Jan 2021, 08:07 »
Knowing the US, this will be used as precedent to allow the dem party to call for twitter/other media bans on the squad.

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #545 on: 09 Jan 2021, 10:36 »
True, whenever people try to draw an equivalence between people killing others, and the people protesting the killings..

You mean the BLM shooter who killed 5 police officers?
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/09/us/dallas-police-shooting.html

Or are we talking of all the people dead and injured in the other BLM and George Floyd protests so far?

Again, just because one side is worse (no matter if it's my evaluation or yours, and if those evaluations come to a different value judgement of these violent extremist movements) than the other, should not mean we need to start arguing about which group is worse than another group. We should be agreeing that violent political extremist groups are a foul thing and need to be acted upon.

With Trumps Twitter shut down, it will also be interesting to see where that leads. I'm guessing big tech companies are going to have to go on a rampage shutting down the smaller social media platforms to make sure the people cut off from the major platforms cannot find a refuge anywhere. For if the fail that, we'll just see a further division of the internet into smaller and smaller communities with more and more extremism. Hell, back when I joined the AGS forums I told people this was the nicest, friendliest community I'd ever seen online, but nowadays some of the loudest voices seem to be perfectly happy to spout hate, abuse and toxicity at other users for the crime of not agreeing with them. Never would have believed it, back in the day...
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Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #546 on: 09 Jan 2021, 10:50 »
Geez, you just can't say that racists and anti-racists are the same without people jumping down your throat. Whither civility?

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #547 on: 09 Jan 2021, 10:57 »
When the so-called anti-racists are saying that some races are exempt from the rules, and should be treated unequally, I tend to think of them as just another flavour of racists.
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Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #548 on: 09 Jan 2021, 11:28 »
That's a crude and tendentious misrepresentation of what BLM demonstrators and similar groups are saying.

Matti

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #549 on: 09 Jan 2021, 12:15 »
SS-runes on your avatar now, WHAM, eh?

**** off!

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #550 on: 09 Jan 2021, 12:38 »
SS-runes on your avatar now, WHAM, eh?

**** off!

Hey, if I get called a nazi and fascist by people who don't know the difference, then I might as well look the part, right?
Alas, I'll swap the avatar if it hurts your frail little soul so much to see 16 evil pixels on your screen.

EDIT: There, all better now.
EDIT EDIT: Oooh? I'm watched now, but not the people who keep accusing me of being something I'm not, namecalling and showing various forms of hatred and outright bigotry. That... seems about right for what's going on nowadays. Carry on.
« Last Edit: 09 Jan 2021, 12:41 by WHAM »
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Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #551 on: 09 Jan 2021, 12:47 »
Oh, you're going to call me a Nazi? Well maybe I'll change my avatar to a Nazi-avatar and continue expressing authoritarian views and far-right apologia? CHECKMATE!

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #552 on: 09 Jan 2021, 12:51 »
Hey, if I get called a nazi and fascist by people who don't know the difference, then I might as well look the part, right?
A comedian once said; "It doesn't matter if you f*ck goats ironically, you're still a goatf*ucker".

A big reason fascism and neo-nazism got so big in the first place is because of vile nazis posting nazi memes as a joke,
and people who don't know any better reposting such memes and symbols ironically/for shock value, making fascists seem more
numerous and popular than they are and just emboldening them further.

Plus don't you think an avatar with SS runes would be pretty horrifying to forum users who haven't followed the context of this discussion?


WHAM

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #553 on: 09 Jan 2021, 13:00 »
Plus don't you think an avatar with SS runes would be pretty horrifying to forum users who haven't followed the context of this discussion?

To be "horrified" of an old symbol of a dead ideology is, to me, a sign of weakness of the mind and spirit. It's a fear of ghosts.
It's not the symbol we should fear or feel outrage over, but the actual ideas and actions, the actual extremism that actually harms people all over the world. A picture on the internet has not hurt anyone, a brick, a fist, a fire, or a boot or a gun has, and the people who take to the streets with those are the ones we need to worry about, whatever symbols they choose to wear that particular day.

Just like all the pearl-clutching about the swastika, which still remains in use in a number of countries, such as Finland over here, acting horrified over a rune or a symbol with a multitude of meanings just because ONE of those meanings was vile long ago is a foolish thing to do and merely gives far more power to the very people we'd all (hopefully) like to oppose.
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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #554 on: 09 Jan 2021, 13:03 »
GENTLEMEN!

Do not make me come down there. I have a stick!

There are discussions to be had here, but this is not the mode. This is a terribly bad atmosphere. Particularly now that the subject of this thread is on the slide, hopefully for good. It is not a good time to do something silly. Let it be, we have a world with less covfefe in it to prepare for.

What IS covfefe, anyway? The cup of coffee the pub gives you when it is about time you go home? A type of chocolate bonbons? Have we reached a conclusion on this? I must know.

Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #555 on: 09 Jan 2021, 14:04 »
To be "horrified" of an old symbol of a dead ideology is, to me, a sign of weakness of the mind and spirit. It's a fear of ghosts.

It's an insult to the victims of Nazi genocide to suggest that people who are horrified by the SS logo are weak in mind and spirit. Unlike the swastika, it has no meaning beyond Nazism. "Weak and mind and spirit" is authoritarian bullshit - I see no reason that weakness should be despised.

Anyone who draws a parallel between BLM protesters and the far-right extremists who just stormed the Capitol is either a fascist sympathiser or an idiot. Out of respect for Snarky's request, I'm being as civil as I can towards WHAM: I don't think he's an idiot.

Mandle

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #556 on: 09 Jan 2021, 14:20 »
HOLY SHIT!!!


Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #557 on: 09 Jan 2021, 14:22 »
To be "horrified" of an old symbol of a dead ideology is, to me, a sign of weakness of the mind and spirit. It's a fear of ghosts.

It's an insult to the victims of Nazi genocide to suggest that people who are horrified by the SS logo are weak in mind and spirit. Unlike the swastika, it has no meaning beyond Nazism. "Weak and mind and spirit" is authoritarian bullshit - I see no reason that weakness should be despised.

Anyone who draws a parallel between BLM protesters and the far-right extremists who just stormed the Capitol is either a fascist sympathiser or an idiot. Out of respect for Snarky's request, I'm being as civil as I can towards WHAM: I don't think he's an idiot.
My thoughts exactly, the reason nazis started using such symbols in the first place was so they could organize and rally together to commit real physical violence.

And even if I were to play along with the notion that the swastika is used in other contexts than nazism, WHAM stated outright that he only changed his avatar to look like a nazi:
Hey, if I get called a nazi and fascist by people who don't know the difference, then I might as well look the part, right?


WHAM

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #558 on: 09 Jan 2021, 14:32 »
And even if I were to play along with the notion that the swastika is used in other contexts than nazism, WHAM stated outright that he only changed his avatar to look like a nazi

That was kind of the point. Whether I look like, or don't look like a "nazi" in a forum avatar does not change what I truly am. The symbology can just as well be a joke or a jest, if used that way.
The symbol has no power unless you give it power, and every time someone clutches their pearls and faints at the sight of a "nazi symbol" they are simply empowering actual nazis to think they still hold some real power in society. The exact kind of validation that all the other crazies online, the Qanons and whatnots, feed off of.

It remains both sad and funny at the same time to see how the left-leaning people all over the world have so utterly failed to learn what kind of harm it does to label people they don't like as something they are not. Fascist, nazi, deplorable, alt-right, whatever it happens to be. Such false labels only serve to drive people away from your cause, and into something you absolutely don't want to drive them to. It was precisely this my joke of an evil-to-the-point-of-having-glowing-red-eyes nazi avatar was trying to exemplify. Unlike the nutcases on Capitol Hill, I'm content to poke holes in weak ideologies and to change a forum avatar, though.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: One More Fathom!

Ali

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Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #559 on: 09 Jan 2021, 14:35 »