Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter

[BESTIEunlmt]

BESTIEunlmt presents 'Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter'

Hey everyone, so without much fanfare the finished game!
I hope you enjoy it, go check it out, it took us about four years.





January 1925. The mysterious message from an old friend
sheds new light on the tragic fate of the Carlyle-Expedition,
that went missing in the African bush some years ago.
Soon, the case evolves into a globe-trotting adventure
to thwart the plans of an evil god.

'Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter' is the first part
of a classic point'n'click adventure campaign, inspired by
the works of H.P. Lovecraft.

Some features:
- A length of 2 to 3 hours on the first playthrough
- More than 20 hand-drawn, walkable screens
- More than 15 characters with conversations
- More than 15 music tracks composed for the game
- English and German translation
- Logical puzzles (and you get a crowbar)
- With a story 'stolen' from Chaosium

DISCLAIMER: We weren't sure if the 'Add Game' function worked, so here's the link to the game:

EDIT: Please download the game from the AGS archives from now on:


https://www.agsarchives.com/game/58defae0a8813928a1397f21

[Ibispi]

It looks and sounds interesting! I like Lovecraftian games.
edit: so I've just learned these guys are infringing Chaosium's Masks of Nyarlathotep copyright and are boasting with it "-With a story 'stolen' from Chaosium". That's illegal, guys. This thread should be locked/deleted and their link too.

[Mandle]

Crowbars, Lovecraft, AND Jafar's brother all in the same game?!

* Mandle adds to To-Play list without a second thought!

[Athanor]

Hey,
I'm very interested to play your game! It looks fantastic. However, as Ibispi said, uploaded is a shitty restrictive site, it takes over an hour to download files over there unless you have membership. I can wholeheartedly recommend mediafire tough.

[BESTIEunlmt]

Hello Athanor et al

Thanks for the interest, the mediafire link is up now.
The size of the game is (half) due to the excellent
symphonic soundtrack by my good friend Chris.

We really hope you enjoy our game.

BTW: We've tried to 'Add Game' to the AGS-archives twice now,
any kind of help (moderator?) is appreciated.

[shaun9991]

Wow! This looks great, nice work guys Downloading now! Nice to see some Lovecraft

[Peder 🚀]

There is no "Add Game" on the AGS Archives, there is an "Add your game" on the AGS website though: https://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/add/
Is this what you've tried? What happens when you try and add your game?

Game looks nice btw, I might give this a go soon if I can find the time, though I already have a backlog of AGS games (or adventure games in general) to play :O.

I also added it to the AGS Archives (as I do with all newly released games for use in MAGSAN) here: https://www.agsarchives.com/game/58defae0a8813928a1397f21

[Athanor]

Thanks for the interest, the mediafire link is up now.
The size of the game is (half) due to the excellent
symphonic soundtrack by my good friend Chris.

Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to play your game.

[Cassiebsg]

FYI: You can not upload the game to the site, it's just a entry on the DB that will link to your game's download site.

Downloaded and hope to find some time to play it soon.   
Congrats with the release.

[SilverSpook]

Looks great!  And very unique!  Wow, 4 years... great dedication on your part.

[CaptainD]

Looks really interesting, congrats on the release!

[BESTIEunlmt]

@Peder

Thanks a lot, that'll do!

[sthomannch]

Wow! Very well done, story, graphics and also fresh puzzles. I enjoyed it a lot and hope to see soon a continuation!

[mkennedy]

Nice gane. Looking forward to the next installment as well as the final product.

[Shadow1000]

Game breaking bug:

Spoiler

After speaking to the owner of the Ju Ju shop, I went upstairs, crossed via cables and found the chute. After clicking to use or look at the chute, he says he should wait till night, then the game shuts off. As well, you can get past the barricade without breaking it just by using the ladder

[close]

Is there a way to continue despite the crash?

SHADOW

[BESTIEunlmt]

@Shadow1000

Thanks for pointing that out, both bugs never occured during our numerous play-throughs, but then, testing the game in the later stages gets much more tedious, needing all the variables in place as well. MILD SPOILERS: After he says to 'wait until dark' you are supposed to talk with Al, who has the (new) dialog option to drive around until dusk.

Sebastian

[Shadow1000]

@Shadow1000

Thanks for pointing that out, both bugs never occured during our numerous play-throughs, but then, testing the game in the later stages gets much more tedious, needing all the variables in place as well. MILD SPOILERS: After he says to 'wait until dark' you are supposed to talk with Al, who has the (new) dialog option to drive around until dusk.

Sebastian

Right, but the problem is that as soon as he says "wait for dark" then the game crashes and shuts off. How can I get the new dialog without looking at or interacting with the chute?

Thank you

SHADOW

[BESTIEunlmt]

Hey Shadow

Yeah sorry, it's my first (hopelessly over-ambitious) effort with AGS, and the game never crashed at that place before. All I can say is that other members of the community finished the game just fine. Try an earlier save, break the planks before the ladder or start over. Anyway, it's cool you're digging that deep into our game at all, hope you've enjoyed it so far.

Sebastian

[Shadow1000]

Hey Shadow

Yeah sorry, it's my first (hopelessly over-ambitious) effort with AGS, and the game never crashed at that place before. All I can say is that other members of the community finished the game just fine. Try an earlier save, break the planks before the ladder or start over. Anyway, it's cool you're digging that deep into our game at all, hope you've enjoyed it so far.

Sebastian

I restored from a game prior to ever visiting the area. I spoke to the guy in the store then broke the planks before the ladder and looking at the chute or interacting with it will crash the game with a scripting error. Is there a way to get past this? There must be if others, including the testers, have completed the game.

Thank you

[BESTIEunlmt]

Hey Shadow

I just had a look at the code, and there is an extra variable the game checks to make sure you can't access the chute before getting there properly. You need to 1. remove the boards by InvUse with crowbar 2. Use the ladder to access the second floor 3. Use the loose cables, so the game knows you're on the right of the chasm ---> then, looking at/interacting with the chute should update the journal and unlock the new dialog option (I know, you've seemingly done all that, but it's my best explanation).

As mentioned before, I'm an illustrator first, programmer fourth? fifth? I'm simply using the engine and can't claim to understand it. The crash never appeared before, I hope you still reach the end.

Sebastian

[Shadow1000]

There must be some other action you have to take for it to not crash. I did all those. What do you mean by "InvUse"? I assume you just mean to open the inventory, click the arrow on the crowbar and then use it with the boards. Is there something that has to be done prior to this? Perhaps something in the shop or something..?

SHADOW

[BESTIEunlmt]

Hey Shadow

I've exhausted my propositions now. Take a deep breath, let it rest for a few days and start over. Many people finished the game without any hiccups.

Thanks,
Sebastian

[Shadow1000]

Ok, maybe someone who finished the game has a save from after this point?

Starting over won't help if I get the same crashing at this point...

SHADOW

[2ma2]

The download have been removed. A pity, this looks really interesting! File sharing sites are probably unwilling to host a file for perpetual download, preferring their files to be uploaded by a unique user and downloaded by just a couple of unique users. If you have problem finding a suitable host, there's a couple of ways you could try.

- I haven't tried Game Jolt, but it appears pretty lenient for hobbyists to distribute their freeware: https://gamejolt.com/
- Torrents are not merely for piracy! If your machine is on anyway, why not seed your game straight from disk. As more users get (and host!) the data, the average bitrate increases manifold. Torrent downloads are used to distribute Linux distros, among other things.
- Google Drive is lenient with storage and publicly accessed files. It might even be indexed for search results. (I dunno about Dropbox, I think they have a much smaller server infrastructure to work with, affecting download times negatively. But I'm just speculating.)
- Perhaps another member of the community have server space to spare? Make your query in the appropriate sub-forum and see if anyone may help you out. You may share the file through one of these file sending services, since it'll only be a single unique download by them, and they'll upload it to a proper server for public distribution.

Shadow: I assume the dev can't replicate the crash. Do you get a print-out of the scripting error? Try posting it at one of the tech-subforums, just to make sure it's related to the actual script and not unique to your machine.

[Shadow1000]

Shadow: I assume the dev can't replicate the crash. Do you get a print-out of the scripting error? Try posting it at one of the tech-subforums, just to make sure it's related to the actual script and not unique to your machine.

I'm not sure what a tech-subforum is but if it helps someone resolve the error, here is a screenshot of the problem. I've never used the AGS but the wording on the error seems to indicate a scripting error.

[Peder 🚀]

The download have been removed. A pity, this looks really interesting!

Still up on the archives: https://www.agsarchives.com/game/58defae0a8813928a1397f21

[Cassiebsg]

Just a note about MediaFire...

I noticed Saturday, that someone tried to download one of my games (I got a notice to ask for permission...) this got me confused, so I checked and all my games and files had been turned off for sharing. 
I've enabled them now, and hope it was just a glitch and not a "feature" (cause if it's the later, I might have to find a new host  )

[BESTIEunlmt]

@Ibispi

And isn't it amazing that I'm taking all these risks for the sake of your entertainment?

Sebastian

[2ma2]

edit: so I've just learned these guys are infringing Chaosium's Masks of Nyarlathotep copyright and are boasting with it "-With a story 'stolen' from Chaosium". That's illegal, guys. This thread should be locked/deleted and their link too.

They wouldn't be the first to make a fan-game out of an existing property. To be fair, The Masks of Nyarlathotep is a tabletop roleplaying campaign, and using the story straight out could very well spoil the campaign. But it doesn't appear to use artwork from the tabletop release, nor Chaosium related logotypes or pictograms. I don't know if text has been lifted from within the books, if that is the case, it would be a much more damning case. As it stands, I find it rather harmless. I can agree that "with a story stolen from Chaosium" is in bad taste, but we don't condemn fan-projects offered for free right out'a the gate, do we?

And isn't it amazing that I'm taking all these risks for the sake of your entertainment?

No need to be sassy, now. The download is disabled by the author on the AGS archives, btw.

I'm not sure what a tech-subforum is but if it helps someone resolve the error, here is a screenshot of the problem.

Yup, it's scripting alright. The tech sub-forums are found under "AGS support" here. But you need not worry about that, the dev'll need to use the information posted to debug the script him-/herself. (Looks like Null was passed as an argument against an array.)

[Peder 🚀]

The download is disabled by the author on the AGS archives, btw.

Well that is a "lie", it was disabled by me, but the AGSA code doesn't yet have any text/status for such a case so it's showing the default disabled text.
I disabled it after receiving and email from Chaosium....

[Ibispi]

edit: so I've just learned these guys are infringing Chaosium's Masks of Nyarlathotep copyright and are boasting with it "-With a story 'stolen' from Chaosium". That's illegal, guys. This thread should be locked/deleted and their link too.

They wouldn't be the first to make a fan-game out of an existing property. To be fair, The Masks of Nyarlathotep is a tabletop roleplaying campaign, and using the story straight out could very well spoil the campaign. But it doesn't appear to use artwork from the tabletop release, nor Chaosium related logotypes or pictograms. I don't know if text has been lifted from within the books, if that is the case, it would be a much more damning case. As it stands, I find it rather harmless. I can agree that "with a story stolen from Chaosium" is in bad taste, but we don't condemn fan-projects offered for free right out'a the gate, do we?


(...)

I respect your opinion, but I thought this went too far.
You know, I like AGS site and its community and I'm protective of it. I don't know about you, but when the owner of AGS archives gets a cease and desist letter from a publisher, I think it's a serious thing. Now, I studied law, but I'm still no lawyer, so I'm not sure exactly what kind of consequences could've emerged out of that, but I thought it was not a thing to just turn a blind eye to.
Now, whether it's wrong to make a fan-game out of a copyrighted fan work, inspired by tons of public domain works by Lovecraft, is something for a sort of philosophical discussion. The way I see it though, I like my AGS safe.
Hopefully the explanation of my opinion doesn't confuse () you anymore.
Cheers.

[Mandle]

A shame... the game looked quite intriguing and I was looking forward to playing it.

Perhaps the author should reach out to Chaosium on the slight chance they would be interested in developing the game as an official title... You never know...

[BESTIEunlmt]

Okay, trying to clear up the whole copyright infringement thing:

When I started experimenting with the engine I was DM'ing 'Masks of Nyarlathotep' and very familiar with its plot.
It was the perfect stepping stone for designing a point'n'click adventure with a theme I can fully embrace. Also,
the relatively small AGS-community and an abundance of fan games made me think this is acceptable.

I DID reach out to Chaosium (boy scout style) before even uploading the game, kindly asking for permission. And
even though I've met some of their staff at conventions they were adamant about their copyright and took it down.

It IS debatable if the adaptation of a tabletop roleplaying-game counts as 'theft', but since I was using their title,
it really depends on the coolness/generosity of the business people at Chaosium. I don't want to risk endangering
the platform or other community members, so I complied to their demands...

@Mandle et al: If you're really interested contact me at bestieunlmt@yahoo.com and I'll send you a private link.

Sebastian

[Mandle]

Thanks... I will contact you...

Also, maybe just change the title, and names of the characters, and other stuff just slightly, and you can get away with a public version of the game...

Lovecraft is public domain... So there are probably other known characters from his works that you can replace the characters in your game with, etc...

Just sayin'...

[BESTIEunlmt]

That's a nice suggestion, Mandle, but to be completely honest: I've had it with this game!

We were already one in-game day (equals dozens of hours of work) into the next chapter, before
Chaosium pulled the plug. It's hard to tell who the good guys or the bad guys are, if these terms
even apply, but I expected that they would handle my request quite differently (as in: this is so
cool, you go ahead, kid!).

Sebastian

[CaesarCub]

The main issue about fan projects, is that they are in a grey area. You are making a game out of love, but the company that owns the property has no reason to see it that way.
You can see it with the Axanar lawsuit where some people made a decent Star Trek fan movie, just to get Paramount stop them because they don't have the rights to do so.
Paramount now has some guidelines for fan stuff, but they could have simply just said no, and it was within their legal rights, no matter how the fans would feel.

All fan games are one Cease and Desist notification away from being pulled down. It has happened with Pokemon fan games, and it could happen to any Maniac Mansion/Indiana Jones/Monkey Island fan game on this site, if Disney ever cares to send one.

In this case you not only took a story that is owned by someone else, but you boasted on the splash screen that it was stolen.
Chaosium is allowed to pull the plug in your game, and moreover if they don't, they are setting precedence that they do not care to protect their creations, which can have legal ramifications down the line if they want to stop others from doing so.

What any other fan group that wants their creation to survive has done when presented with a Cease and Desist is to modify the work enough that it becomes an original piece.
Rename characters, rework key scenes, change the name of the product.

As Mandle mentioned, Lovecraft works are of public domain now, so it's only the characters created by Chaosium the ones you have to worry about.

And I'm sorry if I sound harsh here, but you can't pretend to expect people to be flattered because you took their toys and played with them. Even if they were, there are other legal situations, there is an oficial Call of Cthulhu game in the works (http://www.callofcthulhu-game.com/) so it might even be the case that Chaosium at the moment does not have the rights to greenlight any other game, or might be in contract breach if they were to do so.

The sad thing, for me, is that you probably had to adapt the story to move from RPG booklet to Adventure Game format, which means there might already be enough differences that your content can be considered original and not a copy, but by keeping the original title and character names after Chaosium told you not to you allowed your game to die.

Again, I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but while you see this game as an act of love for a setting you admire, you have to understand that the owners might see it as someone stealing their stuff, putting his name on top of it, and releasing for free content that costed money to make and that they sell to earn that money back.

[Mandle]

The sad thing, for me, is that you probably had to adapt the story to move from RPG booklet to Adventure Game format, which means there might already be enough differences that your content can be considered original and not a copy, but by keeping the original title and character names after Chaosium told you not to you allowed your game to die.

YES!!! This is exactly the tactic you could take to continue on with your project!

Just change the names of the game title and all characters, and argue your case that the game genre has been altered enough from an RPG into a point-and-click adventure game to be considered an "inspired by" game (and add that in the credits) instead of a "rip-off" game...

[BESTIEunlmt]

@CaesarCub

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and putting things in perspective for future readers.

I was well aware of this problematic ahead of release, and it's true that I have no right to complain.
In hindsight, my biggest mistake might have been notifying Chaosium beforehand, otherwise we could
all be enjoying the game right now.

I just want to make clear that we didn't boast to have 'stolen' their story, it was necessary to have such
a disclaimer exactly because we didn't came to an agreement with the company.

Sebastian

[2ma2]

Even though the works of Lovecraft is in the public domain, the name "Masks of Nyarlathotep" is probably a registered trademark so Chaosium must enforce it. But don't sweat it BESTIEunlmt, you should DEFINITELY rewrite story and characters into your own thing - use what's been done thus far as the stepping stone into something new. Reinventing and retooling the mythos is a time-honored tradition by writers and designers alike - it was made to be an ever-changing web of occult reference and correspondence that simply cannot be charted, collected and ultimately understood. As mentioned above, an adventure game is different from a tabletop roleplaying campaign. Someone complimented your puzzles earlier in this thread, and those are all of your design. Adventure game puzzles can't really be used in tabletop roleplaying: you must allow for any character to solve your problem "Gordian knot"-style; a locked door may be surpassed by a key but lock-picks should do as well, and so should a well-placed kick.

I get that you are disappointed in people you respect and admire, but their hands might very well be forced by the intricacies of copyright law. Let it rest for a while, catch a couple of movies or partake in an ol' fashioned dungeon crawl - revisit this project later with well-rested eyes and a well-rested mind. Ask a mod to move this thread to "AGS Games in Production" and I will eagerly await its triumphant return to "Completed Game Announcements" - a little less "Masks of Nyarlathotep" to be sure, but a whole lot more BESTIEunlmt!

[BESTIEunlmt]

Hey 2ma2

I know you mean well... but please stop patronizing me in my own thread.

Thanks, Sebastian

[Mandle]

Perhaps on the rest of the internet lengthy, well written, positive, and supportive posts might make one feel one is being patronized?

I dunno... I've been around a lot of different corners of the internet and most are horrible places that people go to to take out all their negative feelings anonymously on total strangers for some kind of stress relief... I guess?

But that's not the way it usually works around here.

The AGS community, I've found, is a very positive and supportive place, which might feel weird at first, and even possibly sarcastic or patronizing at first to newcomers, as "nice" posts often hide a poisonous subtext on the net in general.

I wouldn't still be here if this board was just another one of those places in disguise.

If you stick around you'll probably see what I'm talking about.

[BESTIEunlmt]

That's fair, Mandle, but I personally can't stand being told what I should do, no matter how well written. Not. At. All.

And it's something other people simply read over, because it's not addressed at them.
Anyhow, I think this thread is done with the game no longer available.

Sebastian

[Tabata]

I am very sad for you and the way your project turns out.

I started playing your game today and enjoyed it so far.
I came here to report about a crash (and I am doing that just because I like the game and want to help) when I read about what happened.
You put a very lot of effort and love into it and I hope you'll find a way to publish it with just some little 'corrections'.
Don't give up - it is worth it!