Author Topic: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter  (Read 8730 times)

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #20 on: 07 Apr 2017, 21:04 »
There must be some other action you have to take for it to not crash. I did all those. What do you mean by "InvUse"? I assume you just mean to open the inventory, click the arrow on the crowbar and then use it with the boards. Is there something that has to be done prior to this? Perhaps something in the shop or something..?

SHADOW

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #21 on: 08 Apr 2017, 13:06 »
Hey Shadow

I've exhausted my propositions now. Take a deep breath, let it rest for a few days and start over. Many people finished the game without any hiccups.

Thanks,
Sebastian

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #22 on: 09 Apr 2017, 02:37 »
Ok, maybe someone who finished the game has a save from after this point?

Starting over won't help if I get the same crashing at this point...

SHADOW

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #23 on: 09 Apr 2017, 14:39 »
The download have been removed. A pity, this looks really interesting! File sharing sites are probably unwilling to host a file for perpetual download, preferring their files to be uploaded by a unique user and downloaded by just a couple of unique users. If you have problem finding a suitable host, there's a couple of ways you could try.

- I haven't tried Game Jolt, but it appears pretty lenient for hobbyists to distribute their freeware: https://gamejolt.com/
- Torrents are not merely for piracy! If your machine is on anyway, why not seed your game straight from disk. As more users get (and host!) the data, the average bitrate increases manifold. Torrent downloads are used to distribute Linux distros, among other things.
- Google Drive is lenient with storage and publicly accessed files. It might even be indexed for search results. (I dunno about Dropbox, I think they have a much smaller server infrastructure to work with, affecting download times negatively. But I'm just speculating.)
- Perhaps another member of the community have server space to spare? Make your query in the appropriate sub-forum and see if anyone may help you out. You may share the file through one of these file sending services, since it'll only be a single unique download by them, and they'll upload it to a proper server for public distribution.

Shadow: I assume the dev can't replicate the crash. Do you get a print-out of the scripting error? Try posting it at one of the tech-subforums, just to make sure it's related to the actual script and not unique to your machine.

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #24 on: 09 Apr 2017, 15:05 »
Shadow: I assume the dev can't replicate the crash. Do you get a print-out of the scripting error? Try posting it at one of the tech-subforums, just to make sure it's related to the actual script and not unique to your machine.

I'm not sure what a tech-subforum is but if it helps someone resolve the error, here is a screenshot of the problem. I've never used the AGS but the wording on the error seems to indicate a scripting error.


« Last Edit: 09 Apr 2017, 15:12 by Shadow1000 »

Peder 🚀

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #25 on: 10 Apr 2017, 09:07 »
The download have been removed. A pity, this looks really interesting!

Still up on the archives: https://www.agsarchives.com/game/58defae0a8813928a1397f21

Cassiebsg

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #26 on: 10 Apr 2017, 17:44 »
Just a note about MediaFire...

I noticed Saturday, that someone tried to download one of my games (I got a notice to ask for permission...) this got me confused, so I checked and all my games and files had been turned off for sharing.  8-0 :-\
I've enabled them now, and hope it was just a glitch and not a "feature" (cause if it's the later, I might have to find a new host  :( )
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #27 on: 12 Apr 2017, 20:34 »
@Ibispi

And isn't it amazing that I'm taking all these risks for the sake of your entertainment?

Sebastian

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #28 on: 21 Apr 2017, 15:44 »
edit: so I've just learned these guys are infringing Chaosium's Masks of Nyarlathotep copyright and are boasting with it "-With a story 'stolen' from Chaosium". That's illegal, guys. This thread should be locked/deleted and their link too.
They wouldn't be the first to make a fan-game out of an existing property. To be fair, The Masks of Nyarlathotep is a tabletop roleplaying campaign, and using the story straight out could very well spoil the campaign. But it doesn't appear to use artwork from the tabletop release, nor Chaosium related logotypes or pictograms. I don't know if text has been lifted from within the books, if that is the case, it would be a much more damning case. As it stands, I find it rather harmless. I can agree that "with a story stolen from Chaosium" is in bad taste, but we don't condemn fan-projects offered for free right out'a the gate, do we?

:confused:

And isn't it amazing that I'm taking all these risks for the sake of your entertainment?
No need to be sassy, now. The download is disabled by the author on the AGS archives, btw.

I'm not sure what a tech-subforum is but if it helps someone resolve the error, here is a screenshot of the problem.
Yup, it's scripting alright. The tech sub-forums are found under "AGS support" here. But you need not worry about that, the dev'll need to use the information posted to debug the script him-/herself. (Looks like Null was passed as an argument against an array.)

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #29 on: 22 Apr 2017, 02:25 »
The download is disabled by the author on the AGS archives, btw.

Well that is a "lie", it was disabled by me, but the AGSA code doesn't yet have any text/status for such a case so it's showing the default disabled text.
I disabled it after receiving and email from Chaosium.... :undecided:

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #30 on: 22 Apr 2017, 21:53 »
edit: so I've just learned these guys are infringing Chaosium's Masks of Nyarlathotep copyright and are boasting with it "-With a story 'stolen' from Chaosium". That's illegal, guys. This thread should be locked/deleted and their link too.
They wouldn't be the first to make a fan-game out of an existing property. To be fair, The Masks of Nyarlathotep is a tabletop roleplaying campaign, and using the story straight out could very well spoil the campaign. But it doesn't appear to use artwork from the tabletop release, nor Chaosium related logotypes or pictograms. I don't know if text has been lifted from within the books, if that is the case, it would be a much more damning case. As it stands, I find it rather harmless. I can agree that "with a story stolen from Chaosium" is in bad taste, but we don't condemn fan-projects offered for free right out'a the gate, do we?

:confused:
(...)
I respect your opinion, but I thought this went too far.
You know, I like AGS site and its community and I'm protective of it. I don't know about you, but when the owner of AGS archives gets a cease and desist letter from a publisher, I think it's a serious thing. Now, I studied law, but I'm still no lawyer, so I'm not sure exactly what kind of consequences could've emerged out of that, but I thought it was not a thing to just turn a blind eye to.
Now, whether it's wrong to make a fan-game out of a copyrighted fan work, inspired by tons of public domain works by Lovecraft, is something for a sort of philosophical discussion. The way I see it though, I like my AGS safe.
Hopefully the explanation of my opinion doesn't confuse (:confused:) you anymore.
Cheers.

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #31 on: 22 Apr 2017, 23:13 »
A shame... the game looked quite intriguing and I was looking forward to playing it.

Perhaps the author should reach out to Chaosium on the slight chance they would be interested in developing the game as an official title... You never know...

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #32 on: 25 Apr 2017, 12:39 »
Okay, trying to clear up the whole copyright infringement thing:

When I started experimenting with the engine I was DM'ing 'Masks of Nyarlathotep' and very familiar with its plot.
It was the perfect stepping stone for designing a point'n'click adventure with a theme I can fully embrace. Also,
the relatively small AGS-community and an abundance of fan games made me think this is acceptable.

I DID reach out to Chaosium (boy scout style) before even uploading the game, kindly asking for permission. And
even though I've met some of their staff at conventions they were adamant about their copyright and took it down.

It IS debatable if the adaptation of a tabletop roleplaying-game counts as 'theft', but since I was using their title,
it really depends on the coolness/generosity of the business people at Chaosium. I don't want to risk endangering
the platform or other community members, so I complied to their demands...

@Mandle et al: If you're really interested contact me at bestieunlmt@yahoo.com and I'll send you a private link.

Sebastian

« Last Edit: 25 Apr 2017, 12:44 by BESTIEunlmt »

Mandle

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #33 on: 25 Apr 2017, 13:35 »
Thanks... I will contact you...

Also, maybe just change the title, and names of the characters, and other stuff just slightly, and you can get away with a public version of the game...

Lovecraft is public domain... So there are probably other known characters from his works that you can replace the characters in your game with, etc...

Just sayin'... :)

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #34 on: 25 Apr 2017, 15:56 »
That's a nice suggestion, Mandle, but to be completely honest: I've had it with this game!

We were already one in-game day (equals dozens of hours of work) into the next chapter, before
Chaosium pulled the plug. It's hard to tell who the good guys or the bad guys are, if these terms
even apply, but I expected that they would handle my request quite differently (as in: this is so
cool, you go ahead, kid!).

Sebastian

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #35 on: 25 Apr 2017, 16:27 »
The main issue about fan projects, is that they are in a grey area. You are making a game out of love, but the company that owns the property has no reason to see it that way.
You can see it with the Axanar lawsuit where some people made a decent Star Trek fan movie, just to get Paramount stop them because they don't have the rights to do so.
Paramount now has some guidelines for fan stuff, but they could have simply just said no, and it was within their legal rights, no matter how the fans would feel.

All fan games are one Cease and Desist notification away from being pulled down. It has happened with Pokemon fan games, and it could happen to any Maniac Mansion/Indiana Jones/Monkey Island fan game on this site, if Disney ever cares to send one.

In this case you not only took a story that is owned by someone else, but you boasted on the splash screen that it was stolen.
Chaosium is allowed to pull the plug in your game, and moreover if they don't, they are setting precedence that they do not care to protect their creations, which can have legal ramifications down the line if they want to stop others from doing so.

What any other fan group that wants their creation to survive has done when presented with a Cease and Desist is to modify the work enough that it becomes an original piece.
Rename characters, rework key scenes, change the name of the product.

As Mandle mentioned, Lovecraft works are of public domain now, so it's only the characters created by Chaosium the ones you have to worry about.

And I'm sorry if I sound harsh here, but you can't pretend to expect people to be flattered because you took their toys and played with them. Even if they were, there are other legal situations, there is an oficial Call of Cthulhu game in the works (http://www.callofcthulhu-game.com/) so it might even be the case that Chaosium at the moment does not have the rights to greenlight any other game, or might be in contract breach if they were to do so.

The sad thing, for me, is that you probably had to adapt the story to move from RPG booklet to Adventure Game format, which means there might already be enough differences that your content can be considered original and not a copy, but by keeping the original title and character names after Chaosium told you not to you allowed your game to die.

Again, I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but while you see this game as an act of love for a setting you admire, you have to understand that the owners might see it as someone stealing their stuff, putting his name on top of it, and releasing for free content that costed money to make and that they sell to earn that money back.

Mandle

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #36 on: 25 Apr 2017, 16:57 »
The sad thing, for me, is that you probably had to adapt the story to move from RPG booklet to Adventure Game format, which means there might already be enough differences that your content can be considered original and not a copy, but by keeping the original title and character names after Chaosium told you not to you allowed your game to die.

YES!!! This is exactly the tactic you could take to continue on with your project!

Just change the names of the game title and all characters, and argue your case that the game genre has been altered enough from an RPG into a point-and-click adventure game to be considered an "inspired by" game (and add that in the credits) instead of a "rip-off" game...

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #37 on: 25 Apr 2017, 20:12 »
@CaesarCub

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and putting things in perspective for future readers.

I was well aware of this problematic ahead of release, and it's true that I have no right to complain.
In hindsight, my biggest mistake might have been notifying Chaosium beforehand, otherwise we could
all be enjoying the game right now.

I just want to make clear that we didn't boast to have 'stolen' their story, it was necessary to have such
a disclaimer exactly because we didn't came to an agreement with the company.

Sebastian

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Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #38 on: 25 Apr 2017, 21:43 »
Even though the works of Lovecraft is in the public domain, the name "Masks of Nyarlathotep" is probably a registered trademark so Chaosium must enforce it. But don't sweat it BESTIEunlmt, you should DEFINITELY rewrite story and characters into your own thing - use what's been done thus far as the stepping stone into something new. Reinventing and retooling the mythos is a time-honored tradition by writers and designers alike - it was made to be an ever-changing web of occult reference and correspondence that simply cannot be charted, collected and ultimately understood. As mentioned above, an adventure game is different from a tabletop roleplaying campaign. Someone complimented your puzzles earlier in this thread, and those are all of your design. Adventure game puzzles can't really be used in tabletop roleplaying: you must allow for any character to solve your problem "Gordian knot"-style; a locked door may be surpassed by a key but lock-picks should do as well, and so should a well-placed kick.

I get that you are disappointed in people you respect and admire, but their hands might very well be forced by the intricacies of copyright law. Let it rest for a while, catch a couple of movies or partake in an ol' fashioned dungeon crawl - revisit this project later with well-rested eyes and a well-rested mind. Ask a mod to move this thread to "AGS Games in Production" and I will eagerly await its triumphant return to "Completed Game Announcements" - a little less "Masks of Nyarlathotep" to be sure, but a whole lot more BESTIEunlmt! :-D
« Last Edit: 25 Apr 2017, 21:56 by 2ma2 »

Re: Masks of Nyarlathotep - New York Chapter
« Reply #39 on: 26 Apr 2017, 11:50 »
Hey 2ma2

I know you mean well... but please stop patronizing me in my own thread.

Thanks, Sebastian