Author Topic: New demo game for AGS?  (Read 3465 times)

Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #20 on: 13 Apr 2017, 10:06 »
My suggestion is still about a small, simple demo game distributed along with the AGS Editor, which purpose is not to tutor, but to showcase basic capabilities.
Also, in my opinion, it is better to have an actual playable game, which user may enjoy playing, rather than a fourth-wall breaking game which describes AGS features in tutorial manner.

Of course, nothing prevents anyone to create tutorial or other demo games separately from that.
If people are up to this, I guess you could even do a set of tutorials with the game sources, and publish them on the website.

The reason I am insisting on a simple demo is that then the installer won't have anything too excessive in it. Meanwhile a small but well-made game would be enough to create user's interest in game creation, and rise their confidence that they can do something good with AGS.
After they played it, they may go to website again and download other tutorial games.

Another reason is a more pragmatic one: simple game is easier to maintain. The package maintainer will have to be responsible for the quality of all the included games. If you put too much, that will become a chore.

I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, and I think you're right.  A short "Example" game might be better than extensive tutorial games for a variety of reasons.

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Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #21 on: 13 Apr 2017, 12:02 »
Yeah, KISS principle definitely applies here. As tempting as it is to overwhelm new users, that just can't be the goal :)

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Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #22 on: 13 Apr 2017, 12:04 »
I have a negative personal opinion about sierra GUI, if that matters :).
Same here. But considering the Sierra GUI is currently the "default" GUI with a bunch of hardcoded functions to support it, it only makes sense to use it for the demo game.
If that changes though, then obviously there will be a long debate as to which interface would be best suited for the job.

I hadn't thought of it from that perspective, and I think you're right.  A short "Example" game might be better than extensive tutorial games for a variety of reasons.
I remember after going through the tutorials, I learnt most of the basics of AGS from a one room example in an old SCUMM interface template (not related to the current one we all use).
Back then I had no idea the demo game existed. And when I finally did learn about the demo game, I already knew a lot. It still taught me a few things though.

I definitely agree that the demo game is outdated. And personally, I think it needs to be replaced with something smaller and simpler.
It doesn't need a framing device saying that in this room you will learn how to use inventory items or whatever, at least not ingame.
But in the name of the rooms, and the comments of the code, it could be clearly apparent what each room is teaching you. While ingame, it could just seem like a playable short simple game.

What I'm trying to say is. In the game, have it appear to be a normal game. In the editor though, make is obvious that it's a tutorial using the game as a framing device. This might make some rooms seem rather bare or simple ingame, but it should still be playable.
At least that's my two cents on the subject.

Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #23 on: 13 Apr 2017, 12:45 »
I have a negative personal opinion about sierra GUI, if that matters :).
Same here. But considering the Sierra GUI is currently the "default" GUI with a bunch of hardcoded functions to support it, it only makes sense to use it for the demo game.

But that's precisely the reason why I don't think it has to be in the game: that will emphasize that you are not limited to these ancient sierra-style controls.
I actually wonder how many newcomers have used Sierra interface in their first games only because it was in Default template.
« Last Edit: 13 Apr 2017, 12:47 by Crimson Wizard »

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Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #24 on: 13 Apr 2017, 13:25 »
This is actually something I have given a lot of thought to over the years...

What I eventually settled on (and I think it's what Abstauber was meaning?) was that the AGS download contains only AGS and no demo games.

Then we have, in the same download section as the engine, multiple demo games to showcase different aspects of AGS but are VERY targeted to that aspect. One for the sierra type interface, one for Lucasarts style, etc. I was thinking they'd be organized is a community decided "curriculum" if you will. So it would be like... the order you should learn AGS programming. Start with the first demo and work your way through to the last to get a solid grasp of the fundamentals of AGS!

The demo game(s) should be useful to learn, without being overwhelming. Like Snarky (and others) said if we have one demo game that tries to cram EVERY aspect in there it would be overly complicated and hard to learn from. Multiple short and small packages that showcase 1-3 aspects would much more useful in my opinion.

Then maybe there's one final, larger, demo game that sort of ties everything you've learned into one game.

I was also thinking, if somebody were willing, would be to create an AGS official YouTube channel. It'd be really great to tie each of the demo games into a youTube video (where the demo game referenced in that video is linked to in the description) and we put some ads on the account and generate some revenue for AGS (could be used to pay some of the fine folks doing the good work on the engine, server bills, etc).

Just my $0.02 (€0.02)

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Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #25 on: 13 Apr 2017, 15:53 »
@Darth

I think this is an excellent idea. The games could even use a common resource pack (RON? OSD?) so people can really focus on the programming.

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Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #26 on: 13 Apr 2017, 17:34 »
The games could even use a common resource pack (RON? OSD?) so people can really focus on the programming.

I had the exact same thought! Each of the "demos" is actually set in the same game/world.

One of my original ideas was each demo (if done in order) would then actually build a larger game as you go through them (each adding on to the previous) so by the end you've combined all the demos into one large/completed game. This would require a tremendous commitment on several developer's parts to implement properly though.

Another idea I batted around was the the demos could actually incorporate teaching into the demos (not just in looking at the code which, of course, you could still do) but breaking the 4th wall where the character in the game would say something like, "okay... if you wanted to script me to do XYZ how would that work?" and then a code dialog box pops up and you could actually enter code (sort of like a very interactive quiz/test to teach scripting, etc).  This, again, would require a large effort to make work properly.

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Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #27 on: 15 Apr 2017, 10:13 »
Another idea I batted around was the the demos could actually incorporate teaching into the demos (not just in looking at the code which, of course, you could still do) but breaking the 4th wall where the character in the game would say something like, "okay... if you wanted to script me to do XYZ how would that work?" and then a code dialog box pops up and you could actually enter code (sort of like a very interactive quiz/test to teach scripting, etc).  This, again, would require a large effort to make work properly.

This is a really cool idea and should do wonders when it works, but getting it to work is hard work.



this thread made me think of this:
http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=54703.0
(new thread to not distract discussion in this theead, but please read!)

Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #28 on: 15 Apr 2017, 19:17 »
My suggestion is still about a small, simple demo game distributed along with the AGS Editor, which purpose is not to tutor, but to showcase basic capabilities.
I like the idea of a flagship title for the AGS engine, something that would showcase the fact that you can use AGS to create quality games with modern(ish) features and game design principles. I guess it would probably work best as a high(er)-res game and if it would look something like The Journey of Iesir, it would be amazing. Also, I think we should go all out with the release of such a demo, make an official announcement, contact some gaming websites, youtubers etc. Let people know!

These comprehensive tutorial games and learning demos are probably pretty hard to pull off, but these could be the next things on the list if some feels like they're up to the challenge.

I don't know much about scripting, so I can't really with that, but I can lend a hand if anyone needs some help with pixel art, writing or game design.

Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #29 on: 27 Apr 2017, 14:03 »
Forgive me for partially hijacking this thread, but since AGS source code is undergoing some significant changes, we could really use a feature demo game.

Might have one feature each room so it would help both us with testing, and AGS users by providing a reliable reference on how to use all the features.

God knows how it would have helped me back when I was learning AGS. It would help even know, I never remember how half the stuff is supposed to be used.

Since we're pretty busy enough with the source, it would be nice if the community could rise up and help compose this testing behemot. Many people could pick up a feature and prepare the room, which will later be compiled into one big demo game.

This is moderately urgent, if you want to discuss come to AGS discord. Thanks.


- Alan

Re: New demo game for AGS?
« Reply #30 on: 29 Apr 2017, 12:04 »
Forgive me for partially hijacking this thread, but since AGS source code is undergoing some significant changes, we could really use a feature demo game.
Might have one feature each room so it would help both us with testing, and AGS users by providing a reliable reference on how to use all the features.

I think this is good, because it gives us a direction for the demo.
It would be good to have a list of the features that need to be tested.

I mean, we can always do later a more story-driven new-user friendly demo, but starting with focusing on the stuff that is needed for further engine development seems like a good idea, and something that the team working on the engine actually needs.