Topic: Steam achievements and trading cards

[SilverSpook]

What do you guys think of Steam achievements, in particular, with point-and-click adventure games?  Do you like them?  Are there certain sorts of achievements that work well in these types of games?  Are they pretty important or could you take them or leave them?

Likewise for Steam trading cards.

Thanks!

[C.L.I.C.K.]

I'm a recovering achievement addict, was REALLY into them once (on the Xbox 360). So, here goes, personal opinion first:

Not a fan of progression achievements (in adventures), since they are so linear (and you can get a walkthrough). So, if you only do these might as well not do them at all. If you can find something out of the way of normal fare, go ahead. Strange combinations, finding easter eggs, the like.

Now, more general stuff:

On the other hand, progression achievements can be interesting for the developer, since it tells you how far the players come, on average.

Some people actually don't buy games without achievements. So, do them. People who don't care won't mind if they get pop ups.

As for cards: Games without them might sell worse. Cards let the player either make some money by playing (and by extension you, the developer), or they buy them to show how much they like the game. So, do them.

[horusr]

Linear achievements are not cool but there was point system in adventure games since forever. So they are ok imo.

[Radiant]

I will say that achievements generally make me play a game more, especially if they're for difficult tricks or alternative story paths. Trading cards I don't personally care about, but many people at Steam do.

[dactylopus]

Trading cards are neat to have, but I don't go out of my way to collect them.  That said, I always hope that a game will include them because they are just fun little things to look at from time to time.

Achievements are fun.  I don't really go after them that much, but I definitely like when I get them, and I like seeing that I have gotten more of them.  I admittedly don't have many, but that's OK.  I have more than I used to.

In some games that I play more often, achievements can be a nice way to direct my next play session.  For example, I like to play Civilization V.  I've played it many times.  So if I want a new challenge, I look for an achievement that I could get in the next play session.  But that's a turn-based strategy game.  Adventure games are more often linear and tell a story.  I don't tend to play such games more than once, but I will if I enjoyed it.  Achievements can encourage me to play again by offering replay value.  Maybe I missed something the first time around, or maybe there was a different way of doing things that I could try out.

So in all, they can be nice, and they can add to the overall gaming experience.  But are they necessary?  I guess not, but it's almost disappointing not to have them.

I should say that I did buy some games on Steam that I had already purchased from GOG and other DRM-free options.  The main reason to do this was to support the creators, but an added bonus was to get trading cards and achievements.

[Frodo]

I really don't care for steam silly achievements or trading cards.  When I play a game, I do so to enjoy it, not to say 'Hey look, I got this weird achievement\trading card, aren't I clever'.

And the achievement pop-ups REALLY annoy me! 
It interrupts my immersion in the game.  The whole point of a game (and adventure games in particular) is to draw you in to that world and make you want to find out what happens next in the story - having pop-ups flash up on your screen all the time is just distracting!   

[Blondbraid]

Wile I agree with ClickClickClick on story achievements for linear games, I think achievements for special actions is a fun way
to encourage the player to explore and examine the game world further as well as experimenting with the gameplay mechanics.

As for the trading cards, I've never really bothered to learn what to use them for...

[C.L.I.C.K.]

As for the trading cards, I've never really bothered to learn what to use them for...

I had so many of them that selling got me enough money for a couple of games. Not of the sixty bucks AAA kind, but still.



SilverSpook, one more thing to consider is the additional workload that comes with creating cards. Five to eleven 1920x1080 artworks for the cards themselves, several emoticons and profile backgrounds, five stages of the normal badge plus one foil.

[Crimson Wizard]

I would suggest making "linear" achievements "hidden" or at least have vague descriptions. I remember playing one of the Blackwell game on Steam, and achievements practically contained hints in their descriptions, so I knew what to do even before I got to particular scenes.

[Umbrella Terms]

I wonder if it is possible to have an option in settings to just disable achievements and cards? Then there's at least the choice for those who want them and those who don't.

[C.L.I.C.K.]

I wonder if it is possible to have an option in settings to just disable achievements and cards? Then there's at least the choice for those who want them and those who don't.

You could disable the Steam overlay to not get popups. But that would prevent you from using ANY Steam service from within the game.

I would suggest making "linear" achievements "hidden" or at least have vague descriptions. I remember playing one of the Blackwell game on Steam, and achievements practically contained hints in their descriptions, so I knew what to do even before I got to particular scenes.

Same goes for cards, they can spoil a lot if they show plot-relevant stuff you haven't encountered yet

[SilverSpook]

Thanks guys for the input.  I'm currently in the process of getting Neofeud to Steam, and as it's my first time with this process, this is all hugely helpful info for me.  Greatly appreciated!

[CaptainD]

I quite like achievements, although more with exploration games and the like.  For adventure games they're a nice addition but I wouldn't exactly miss them if they weren't there.

In terms of trading cards... well, I've never even remotely been able to see the point.  However I like them, because I get them for free whilst playing the game and then sell them on the marketplace where apparently a lot of people DO see the point, so...

[Stupot]

I don't really care about 'cheives. Less so Steam 'cheives. I guess they're a nice addition but I've never seen how they could be worth the developer's time to create and implement them. How many adventure game players base their buying decisions on whether or not the game has acheivements? Can't be that many. I will admit to always checking how many I got once I finish a game but I rarely set out to earn one and I even rarelier replay a game in order to earn more.

[Dave Gilbert]

From a dev's standpoint, linear achievements are a great way to see what percentage of players reached a certain point in your game. It can also be very depressing.

[Cassiebsg]

I can't talk about Steam's achievements and trading cards, but I did create a page on my BSG upcoming game. Not because I felt players wanted or needed them, but because the game had so many different paths that I thought that those that like to explore games would appreciate to be able to check if there's more to find in the game. I also used it as a hint system... though you will need to click twice to the get the hint (as I don't wish to accidentally give spoilers. )
There is no indication in game when you get a "badge".

[LimpingFish]

I quite like achievements. I rarely go out of my way to get them, though, but it's nice to have a reminder that you did something in a game. In that respect, I guess I prefer linear achievements, but I can see the (relative) value in the hard to obtain ones too.

Trading cards on the other hand...

Unless you're invested in Steam as a gaming "space", I can understand how they would hold little attraction. For those of us who use Steam, cards are the only way to craft badges. Crafting badges gives you EXP. EXP gives you levels. Levels give you friend slots. If you want to have a lot of Steam friends, you're going to need a lot of slots.

And, right or wrong, the gamification of Steam itself is a very real thing.

[C.L.I.C.K.]

Crafting badges gives you EXP. EXP gives you levels. Levels give you friend slots. If you want to have a lot of Steam friends, you're going to need a lot of slots.

The basic number of friend slots is more than enough for most people, I'd say. But that's starting to get slightly off-topic.

[Gurok]

I like Cassie's mention of having an achievements page inside your game. I'm doing something very similar for the game I'm working on. In my game, it's pretty much replaced the traditional point scoring mechanism.

You could still offer Steam achievements to Steam users -- just trigger the Steam achievement when the in-game achievement is unlocked.

[Danvzare]

I've never really cared about achievements. And I would argue that they ruin the immersion in some types of games.

That being said some games can benefit from achievements, so long as those achievements can only be unlocked if you really REALLY go out of your way to unlock them. Because they can serve as a way to prove that you did something that no one would have ever attempted had that achievement never been there. A good example is see every single piece of dialog in an adventure game.

I really dislike getting achievements for simply reaching a certain distance in the game. I feel as though they're a little patronising, and are a very lazy attempt at making achievements.