Author Topic: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)  (Read 6184 times)

Sinitrena

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: Day 3)
« Reply #100 on: 07 Aug 2018, 18:20 »
I hope you all enjoyed the second AGS Werwolf Game

There were a couple of rule things that came up. I only ever answered the person asking, because it wasn't relevant to anyone else:

1. Mandle mentioned that it might not be a good idea to close the night phase too early because it would give people a hint as to who has which role. He is correct, of course and I didn't plan to close it too close to recieving all PMs. It wasn't really an issue.

2. Mandle asked me if it would be okay for a normal wolf to give the eating order to the game master in case the alpha has no time. My answer was no, simply because the other roles also don't have a back-up. It would be unfair. Luckily, this also wasn't an issue, because josiah had already messaged me the decision when Mandle asked.

3. This one you already know the answer: tzachs asked me if he is allowed to vote himself for a lynching. Yes, everyone is allowed to vote for him-/herself. No idea if this would ever be a good tactic for anyone but the fool, but it's certainly allowed.

4. Stupot asked if killed players are allowed to keep comunicating with other players as long as it is not in the thread. Because thes don't recieve information they didn't have before, it is allowed.


The last day phase was a bit underwhelming, I must say. I mean, I knew how it would go as soon as tzachs send me his question. I even considered closing the Day Phase earlier, simply because there was no realistic way it could go differntly, but as long as there was even the slightes theoretical chance I didn't feel it would be fair.

But maybe an additional rule might be possible: Maybe we could allow players to lock their vote, basically telling the game master (in private or in the thread) that they won't change their vote. If they lock their vote, they aren't allowed to change it anymore. When all players have locked their vote, the round could end earlier. Just a thought.


Quote
And this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty.
From an outside perspective, I don't entirely believe you here. What you actually did, intentional or not, was pretending to be neutral. You acted as if you stood outside the game and you used your experince for it. It's a valid tactic, but a bit more underhanded then you make it out to be, at least if it was intentuel.


The town was a bit unlucky in this game. They lost the guard in the very beginning. The seer scanned Stupot in the first round, even though Riaise was suspcious of Mandle (she told me) and lost him in the second night - and then it was already too late.

I agree that it is probably better to leave the role of fool out if we don't get more players.

Quote
Yeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
That would change very little, I think. It would just add another Day Phase where people discuss without evidence, just like in Day 1.

All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)

dayowlron

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #101 on: 07 Aug 2018, 18:49 »
first off I did enjoy it but I still think with so few players the wolves have way too much of an advantage.
Quote
Yeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
That would change very little, I think. It would just add another Day Phase where people discuss without evidence, just like in Day 1.
That would give the seer a day to hopefully find a wolf without any other threat of dying. The town in both games chose not to lynch anyone the first day to give the seer a chance to gather some intel. It would also make the Guards role useless in the first night unless the Guard can choose to protect someone from lynching.
If in this game the seer could have located a wolf on the first night it would have been productive to basically blow his cover because that would have taken the wolves down to 1 wolf and it would have given a few days for the town to find the last remaining wolf, even if the guard was gone. I am thinking a new rule about if the town succeeds in lynching a wolf then the wolves can't attack that night. Let me know what you think of that rule. (or maybe if they lynched the alpha wolf then the other wolves would be cowering). Of course it wouldnt have changed anything in these last 2 games because in both games no wolf was lynched.
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Sinitrena

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #102 on: 07 Aug 2018, 18:53 »
first off I did enjoy it but I still think with so few players the wolves have way too much of an advantage.
Quote
Yeah, I was actually thinking of a rule that if there are 8 or less players then the wolves don't get a kill on Night Phase #1...
That would change very little, I think. It would just add another Day Phase where people discuss without evidence, just like in Day 1.
That would give the seer a day to hopefully find a wolf without any other threat of dying.

You're right. The seer role completely slipped my mind there for a second.

VampireWombat

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #103 on: 07 Aug 2018, 19:22 »
Any help the guard can be given would be great.
I guarded a wolf in both games. I did consider flat out stating I was the guard this game, but I felt no one would believe me...

Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #104 on: 07 Aug 2018, 19:55 »
YES! I curse you, wolves, with my Seer powers! Let's see how you like that! (laugh)

But really, I deserve to be eaten for buggering that game up so spectacularly. I thought that gaining an ally would be more beneficial than finding a wolf so soon in the game. I should have scanned Mandle the first night, but I was worried that he would be eaten and my scan would be wasted. So I went for someone less likely to be attacked. Then on the second day, I didn't really want to vote for Adeel, but I was still so unsure about Mandle and I thought that lynching a possible wolf is better than lynching nobody at all. I should have refused to vote, or voted for tzachs, who I suspected the most at that point, which would have caused a tie and therefore no lynching that day. So then when I finally did scan Mandle, he gave himself away anyway. >:( :P

So, yeah, I failed massively that round. But I have learned from it, and that's what is most important. :-D

All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
Yeah, that would be great! I'll play again, whatever the setting! :)

tzachs

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #105 on: 07 Aug 2018, 20:06 »
I enjoyed playing :)
And I enjoyed Sinitrena's hosting, well done!

I must say, as the fool, I didn't "feel" neutral, I felt almost completely pro-wolves, trying to be bait and take the pressure away from them.
So yeah, for a 8 people game, I support either removing the fool or doing first night with no kill.
Another alternative, btw, instead of having first night with no kill would be to give the seer the ability to scan somebody at the beginning of the game, this way we won't need to wait a day for the "real game" to begin.

Btw, if Sinitrena will host another game (and I hope so), there's a list of roles here that might give you some ideas (though a lot of these roles look more useful only when you have a lot more players, I think).

I thought that gaining an ally would be more beneficial than finding a wolf so soon in the game.
I find it a very reasonable strategy, actually.

Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #106 on: 07 Aug 2018, 20:11 »
Open for everyone now hopefully means everyone, not just the participants..? /looks around nervously

I just wanted to drop by to say that it was a really entertaining and exciting read, well done guys. Don't worry about losing, or winning too easily, or not managing to tip the balance with your powers. It was a great show, and as a mere observer I really did feel everyone participated and contributed equally well.

And Sinitrena, that was some beautiful storytelling, can't wait for more!

Sinitrena

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #107 on: 07 Aug 2018, 20:16 »
Any help the guard can be given would be great.
I guarded a wolf in both games. I did consider flat out stating I was the guard this game, but I felt no one would believe me...

I felt a bit sorry for you when the draw choose you as a guard the second time in a row. You didn't sound too happy with the role in the last game. But I didn't want to artificially change it, of course.

I watched some youtube videos of people playing this game in the last coupls of days (this channel) to understand it a bit better, and they use a nurse role insted of a guard. The nurse is basically allowed to revive someone. He/she choses someone to protect like the guard does, including his/herself, but an attack on the protected doesn't end in the death of the nurse. He/she is not allowed to protect the same person twice in a row, though. Maybe this would work better for us as well, especially with so few players.

YES! I curse you, wolves, with my Seer powers! Let's see how you like that! (laugh)

Glad you liked it :-[ :-D :-[

All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
Yeah, that would be great! I'll play again, whatever the setting! :)

How about something very loosely based on Agatha Christie's "And then there where none"?

Open for everyone now hopefully means everyone, not just the participants..? /looks around nervously

Of course, welcome.

Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #108 on: 07 Aug 2018, 20:28 »
Thanks for that, Sinitrena.

I didn’t really have time to sit and chew over the posts in order to really think about it and come up with any ideas. I must admit, I thought at the end we might still have s chance but everyone else was already talking like it was game over an I didnt really have time to think of a solution.

I wouldn’t mind playing a round without the fool.

Cassiebsg

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #109 on: 07 Aug 2018, 20:34 »
Well, there was really no other outcome, only if the fool wanted to continue playing "wolf", but he didn't had too. :)

I must say that at one point I commented to Adeel that it would have been funny if Mandle was playing the fool... (laugh) But I suspected him to be wolf... is not for his suspicious "oh, they didn't eat me..." (laugh) And I was sure when we got "stu stew"... I thought "This is really Mandle's kind of humor". (laugh) And then he revealed himself... :P But yeah, I forgot the fool isn't town so hadn't realized the game was over at that point. (laugh)
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Adeel

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #110 on: 07 Aug 2018, 20:43 »
All in all, I really enjoyed aministrating this round and would love to do it again (with a different setting - same roles, just named differently -, otherwise the story-telling gets a bit boring)
You're an amazing host. I eagerly waited for your posts and really enjoyed reading them. You have a way with words.

You find
Spoiler: ShowHide
 some books and candles, the remnants of a cake and a birthday card, congratulating Adeel to his 1014th birthday. (Happy belated birthday, Adeel.)

That was a really nice (and relevant) touch. I laughed out loud when I read that sentence. It made my day. :-D
-

dayowlron

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #111 on: 07 Aug 2018, 21:42 »
I forgot the fool isn't town so hadn't realized the game was over at that point. (laugh)
Actually the fool is town, however he just has a different agenda than the rest of the town.
It was only over because the fool would have voted for himself to be hung and the wolves would have done the same thing making it 3 votes for the fool and only 2 for someone else and once the fool was lynched it would have been over cause it would have been 2 wolves and 2 town.
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Then what does congress mean?             And they tell you where you can go.  --Nipsey Russell

Mandle

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: Day 3)
« Reply #112 on: 08 Aug 2018, 00:20 »
Well, that was... interesting.
That'll teach me never to guard a werewolf ever again.

Yeah, the bodyguard would probably be best used by not guarding anyone until contacted by the Seer via PM. Remember that the bodyguard dies if their target is attacked so their only real value is in guarding the Seer. The wolves could pretend to be the Seer later on when there are only a few players left and make a guess at who the bodyguard is but probably too risky to be worth trying. The bodyguard only delays the Seer's death by one night really. Well, I guess after the first night phase the bodyguard could just guard anyone and then the wolves will assume that the guarded player is the Seer. Hmmmmm...

Who did you guard by the way?

I'd also be interested to hear who the Seer scanned both nights and whether they got in touch with them and what kind of discussion went on between them.

A bit later on I'll post the wolves' behind-the-scenes lines of thinking. There aren't 40+ PMs like the wolves had last game, probably because I was away over the weekend at my school event (yes, that was true) and also a lot of the time we pretty much just let each other do as we pleased in the thread, hoping that this would make us look less "in cahoots".

Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #113 on: 08 Aug 2018, 03:52 »
Yes, Sinitrena did an amazing job hosting. I definitely look forward to any others she hosts. :)

I was actually surprised when, jokingly, I told her we were in the mood for some Stupot stew, lol. I had no idea she would incorporate it into the story. (laugh) Sorry Stupot... I promise it's all in fun :)

Also, everyone did a really good job playing their part. I as well as Mandle actually thought that Stupot was the seer because he was pretty quiet, seemed like he was sitting back and communicating outside instead of inside. But we got fooled. And yes, I'm also curious which one of us you guarded VampireWombat and what your reason for so was?

All in all, I really enjoyed this round. (nod) But I'll admit I was extremely nervous when I found out I was alpha wolf but thankfully Mandle ended up being my back up wolf, lol. He reassured me it was all in fun, we kinda did our own thing,  we both had some good ideas and we just worked well together, despite our 13 hr time difference! (laugh)

Well, I guess it's a good thing I'm a night owl bat, considering I'm a vampire now ;)

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #114 on: 08 Aug 2018, 04:18 »
And I was sure when we got "stu stew"... I thought "This is really Mandle's kind of humor". (laugh)

That was actually Joshia's joke. That was the night-phase I was inactive in due to a weekend event at my school. I had nothing to do with it.

And, yeah, the GM probably shouldn't mention when incorporated jokes like that were suggested by the wolves until the game is over. We have played each other's games and read each other's forum posts for years (mostly) and a sense of humour can be a bit like a fingerprint sometimes. I was pretty concerned that everyone would, mistakenly in this case, think that was my joke, but it didn't matter anyway this time as I then got home, looked closer, and realized it was time for the wolves to come out anyway.

A minor point though...The GM did a great job this round, especially with the fun storytelling and good calls on rule queries.

Thanks for the great round Sinitrena!

Oh, and as for the Bodyguard role: This is actually a nerfed version of the Bodyguard. The original role of Night Guard allows the guard to block attacks without dying but cannot guard the same target two night phases in a row. So pretty much the same as the Nurse role mentioned above.

I nerfed the role for (what I thought was) a fairer balance, but it turned out I probably should have used the full-powered Guard role instead. Sorry, forgot to mention this after the first game ended. I should have mentioned this along with my comments about regretting using the Fool and having 3 wolves, but it slipped my mind.

In this second game however it wouldn't have made any difference so, oh well...

Quote
And this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty.
From an outside perspective, I don't entirely believe you here. What you actually did, intentional or not, was pretending to be neutral. You acted as if you stood outside the game and you used your experince for it. It's a valid tactic, but a bit more underhanded then you make it out to be, at least if it was intentuel.

Even after I literally said, during the game, that I would be telling the other players all this regardless of if I was a townie or a werewolf pretending to be a townie? I thought that was pretty fair warning so the only one I really felt dirty about was the "Don't give any reasons" trick, even though that should have raised a few eyebrows against me...

Well, perhaps there was one more that on a super-meta-level was sneaky, but I realized this after I had already posted the info, but more on that a bit later when I show some of the wolves' behind-the-scenes stuff...

I was actually surprised when, jokingly, I told her we were in the mood for some Stupot stew, lol. I had no idea she would incorporate it into the story. (laugh) Sorry Stupot... I promise it's all in fun :)

Hat-trick!!!
« Last Edit: 08 Aug 2018, 05:01 by Mandle »

Sinitrena

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #115 on: 08 Aug 2018, 12:23 »
VampireWombat protected Mandle in Night 1.
Riaise scanned Stupot in Night 1 and Mandle in Night 2.

And I was sure when we got "stu stew"... I thought "This is really Mandle's kind of humor". (laugh)

That was actually Joshia's joke. That was the night-phase I was inactive in due to a weekend event at my school. I had nothing to do with it.

And, yeah, the GM probably shouldn't mention when incorporated jokes like that were suggested by the wolves until the game is over.

Oooops. You are correct, that was a mistake. I think I would still write specific wishes about the method of death but not tell you that it was a request. But, depending on how good the players know each other and me, that alone could be a hint to the identity of some players. I guess it's a risk to ask, but also way too much fun for me not to do it.

Quote
And this is the only point when I used my "experienced" player status to gain advantage over people's opinions, and yeah, like I said, it felt dirty.
From an outside perspective, I don't entirely believe you here. What you actually did, intentional or not, was pretending to be neutral. You acted as if you stood outside the game and you used your experince for it. It's a valid tactic, but a bit more underhanded then you make it out to be, at least if it was intentuel.

Even after I literally said, during the game, that I would be telling the other players all this regardless of if I was a townie or a werewolf pretending to be a townie?
That's actually what I meant. But it's probably just my first thought and gut-instinct reaction to you saying that you would say something no matter what role you are in. That reads like someone talking who has nothing to do with the proceedings of the game. It probably really is just my impression. And it also doesn't really matter, all tactics are allowed, after all. I actually laughed when I read your posts, knowing full well what your real role was. ;)


josiah really does seem to like killing Stupot, doesn't he? (laugh)

VampireWombat

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: Day 3)
« Reply #116 on: 08 Aug 2018, 13:09 »
Who did you guard by the way?
You. And then you went and murdered me... :~(

Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #117 on: 08 Aug 2018, 13:27 »
How about something very loosely based on Agatha Christie's "And then there where none"?
Oh, that could be interesting. More murder mystery than monster hunting. I like the sound of that! ;-D

I'd also be interested to hear who the Seer scanned both nights and whether they got in touch with them and what kind of discussion went on between them.
Yeah, as Sinitrena said, I scanned Stupot on night one and you on night two. Stu and I mostly just discussed whether you were actually suspicious or just trying to help everyone. (laugh)

Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #118 on: 09 Aug 2018, 03:39 »
For the fool it might be interesting for them to claim to be the alpha wolf and ask the other villagers who they think the wolves should eat first.

Some other stuff that might make the guard role more interesting:
If the wolves decide to kill the guard, but the guard is out guarding somebody then the wolves just find his house empty and don't get a kill unless he was guarding a wolf that night, though that would tip the town off to who the guard or one of wolves is. If there is only one wolf left and they decide to kill the guard then the guard can kill them instead. Though this would probably make the guard overpowered. It also would imply lazy wolves.

Mandle

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Re: WEREWOLF GAME 2 (Phase: End-Discussion)
« Reply #119 on: 09 Aug 2018, 06:13 »
There is a different role called the Hunter: If the wolves attack the Hunter then the Hunter still dies but takes down one of the wolves at random. If this was the last wolf then the town wins (assuming there are no other Evil roles around like the Serial Killer etc.)