Topic: Serious crime but no serious mental disorder

[Mouth for war]

Wasn't sure how to title this but here goes. I've been pondering about this on and off. Every now and then you read about someone who commits murder for no special reason (Could've been a fantasy or whatever) Then they pick someone at random and just do it. Often you hear that after they've gone through a mental evaluation that "the person did not suffer from a serious mental disorder" That just doesn't sound right to me.How can they come to this conclusion? The brain is a pretty complex piece of equipment and perhaps they just haven't found the reason why some people do something terrible like that for no reason.

I was working at a community youth center a few years ago (I think that's the english translation, teenagers comes to hang out, play games, drink coffee etc) There was a guy there who I liked a lot, always smiling and he was friendly to everyone. One night he went to another guys place to hang out, have a few beers and play guitar etc. That night ended with him being tortured to death, I don't think I have to go into details here but the guy did some really f####d up stuff. He was sentenced to 18 years in prison because "He didn't suffer a serious mental disorder" I just can't get my head around that. The things he did is not what a sane person would do but still that's what they concluded. What are your thoughts about that? Maybe there's someone with a psychology degree here who can educate me

[Jack]

Enough people are on antidepressants that it is ending up in the water supply in measurable amounts. "Not a serious mental disorder" is very relative in 2019. You can expect people to refer to you as the planet Venus and "not have a serious mental disorder."

[Khris]

Jack: Remind me why you are on this forum again? And not some Incel subreddit?

[Danvzare]

Enough people are on antidepressants that it is ending up in the water supply in measurable amounts.

If that was true, then there would be no need to buy anti-depressants. Just drink some water. 

"Not a serious mental disorder" is very relative in 2019. You can expect people to refer to you as the planet Venus and "not have a serious mental disorder."

That is unfortunately quite true. Although it's always kind of been like that. It's just become more noticeable within recent times, because all of the nutjobs now have a voice thanks to the internet.
Although you probably shouldn't bad-mouth yourself. 

The things he did is not what a sane person would do but still that's what they concluded. What are your thoughts about that?

Well if we considered everyone who committed a murder was insane. We'd be sending them all to a mental home instead of a prison. Which sounds suspiciously like Batman's arkham asylum to me. 
But as for my thoughts on the matter. Maybe serious mental disorder, is just things like hearing a voice telling you to do it, or actually believing you're killing a monster. Simply murdering someone because you feel like it, doesn't count as a mental disorder, even if it's not normal.
I could go into a lot more depth of what I think, until I finally delve into philosophy and end up going way off topic. So I'm going to stop here, and just say, I'm not entirely sure.

[Slasher]

Some people do evil things because they are evil (abnormal brain)... Evil people can blend in with the environment, like a chameleon and people often consider them to be nice (as many people have said about some serial killers) not realising the evil within.. We can all meet them at any time, any place.... It's a daunting, mixed up world...

Sorry for anybody's loss to such monsters...

[Jack]

Jack: Remind me why you are on this forum again? And not some Incel subreddit?

Because I make things, unlike you. It's just a discussion, no need to get personal. But we can if you like. Modern day German afraid of their own shadow loses every time.

If that was true, then there would be no need to buy anti-depressants. Just drink some water. 

It's true. It's not really the dosage in the water that's the point, it's the fact that so many people are on it that their urine is changing the water supply. Something is seriously wrong with how things work. I must be cra-ayzee to think that.

One thing I didn't say, which probably addresses what Mouth for War was getting at better, is that people are flipping out because they are under incredible pressure. The system is crumbling. People don't want to know that, but their survival instincts are screaming on the inside. Some can't deal with the schism.

[Mouth for war]

I don't think all murders = insanity, like gangs killing each other etc. so I don't mean that everyone should be locked up in an asylum, but when you torture someone...well...that is way beyond murder. Maybe we are all capable of that...if someone did something really terrible against someone you love...I don't know what I would do if I would get an hour alone with that person

[Stupot]

I've often asked myself this question and wonder how anyone can kill another human and not be considered insane. But here's what I keep coming back to:

Murder is a concept invented by man and the fact that it is illegal and/or otherwise frowned upon is a testament to our species as a civilized society. But we do kill each other... aaaaallll the fucking time. More than some other species. It's actually kind of normal for us. War, tribalism, greed, revenge. These are all things that might cause any one of us to risk spending the rest of our lives in prison.

What that doesn't explain is serial killers. People who just get a taste for it and go on to kill dozens of people under the guise of ‘Mr Nice Guy'. These people are often not found to be insane. Some are, but many aren't and just serve time as regular killers. That is the part I can't quite work out. Is it that they are not insane or is it that they are so calculating and clever that they just don't seem insane?

And who gets to decide what insane means anyway? Doesn't it just mean ‘not normal'? So if killing is so normal for our species, maybe we are the insane ones for not getting rid of our enemies and keeping our hands clean.

[Mouth for war]

Actually, I've never liked the words normal/unnormal. Who gets to decide that? Society of course but I use "regular" and "unusual" instead Those "Mr Nice guy" killers must have a mental disorder, That doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know what they're doing, quite the opposite I think. Aren't they usually labeled as "Psychopaths" though? Not all of them I'm sure.

I guess it's not easy  to decide what insane is, but when you torture someone to make them experience as much pain as possible before eventually killing them, that is insane in my world..others might just say evil.

[Mandle]

I believe the insanity defense is only supposed to be for people who, as judged, were incapable of understanding the illegality of their actions while committing the crime.

For example: A delusional person might have thought they heard God telling them to kill the person because they are the Antichrist and believed they were not "murdering" another human being.

I'm not saying that such a person should get away with it, but their claim will probably be reviewed by a mental health professional and an opinion given to the court.

In the case of a serial killer who went to great lengths of avoid being discovered and caught such as carefully stalking their victims and waiting for the best time to abduct them, and methodically disposing of their remains, it is self-evident that the killer knew they were doing something against certain laws and therefore are judged under those laws.

It doesn't matter, in these cases, if the individual themself saw nothing wrong with killing other people. They knew they were breaking laws.

I think this is what the court means when they say "no mental illness". It's more about disallowing an insanity defense claim than actually saying that the person has nothing at all wrong with them mentally.

This is what I understand anyway.

[Blondbraid]

I think many people want to attribute horrible crimes on mental disorders because it's a way of reassuring yourself with an easy explanation for the violence, and on some level it's easier to reconcile with the thought that crimes are committed by an unknown madman with no understandable human thought process, rather than face the truth that the people doing the crimes were somebody's child, sibling or parent and that most murderers look just like any regular human. It reminds me of the folklore surrounding the Wendigo, a mythological creature described as once human beings who became possessed by evil spirits who twisted them into becoming insatiable monsters killing and eating other people, a myth that appeared as a result of people resorting to killing and eating their tribesmen in desperation due to starvation and famine, and the idea of supernatural dark forces making people commit cannibalism probably was easier to reconcile with than acknowledging that some people chose to eat human flesh.

Most statistics show that people with mental illness are more likely to fall victims to crime than perpetuate it, and being a murderer doesn't constitute a mental illness. The reason people commit heinous murders or become serial killers vary, but the most common denominator among people who commit crimes like rape, torture and abuse to terrorize a helpless victim do so out of a wish to dominate others and feel powerful by taking away power from someone else. One of the most common warning signs of a person about to become a serial killer is that they capture and torture animals before escalating to humans, but the wish to dominate doesn't just take violent forms. Another tactic is to instead dominate others through mind games, by crafting a pleasant outward persona that makes people trust them and listen to them and take control over people's perception of them, and this is the reason so many serial killers have been described as nice and pleasant persons by people who have talked to them in person. As Mandle said, serial killers are almost always competent people who are able to plan and reason and aware that their actions are illegal and taking active measures to evade the law.