Topic: AGS WEREWOLF GAME 4 (Phase: End Discussion)

[Riaise]

OH MY GOD, I'm bloody useless at this game. That's twice I've stuffed it up, now.

Sorry Mandle, and VW, I had it RIGHT THERE and I couldn't see it. I genuinely didn't suspect Kastchey, though. You played that perfectly. Well done to you and PP. That was a really good game.

[Sinitrena]

Well, that was stressful.

I have to agree with that one, it was stressful, even for me. When I looked at the votes yesterday they were pretty clear and then you all change them and then you nearly change them again so close to the end. Makes writing a bit difficult. (I could, of course, wait for the closing time period to end, but that's just not how this is supposed to work.) But also fun!

But I really have to say, well play, everybody, but especially Kastchey.

Mandle, I know you wanted to scan Kastchey in Night 1. I assume you thought he was scum then. So what made you trust him after you scanned Privateer Puddin'? (I assume it is true that you contected him?)


By the way, I recieved very few Last Words, only josiah (who basically knew he was dead in Night 2), Mandle (getting his scan results out) and Riaise send them in.

OH MY GOD, I'm bloody useless at this game. That's twice I've stuffed it up, now.

Don't feel bad. The scum team did an amazing job.

[Cassiebsg]

Fun to watch from the outside. 

To be honest I kind of suspected PP to be scum... something he wrote that I felt was inconsistent and "sounded" wrong to me... was trying to find it again, but that means I would need to re-read everything... but wasn't sure of any of the others.  And we all know Mandle is a pro in this game, so anything he says is suspicious... 

Good game. 

PS - I don't think the Psychic should be alowed his last scan, since he technicaly was lynched during the day time. Maybe if he had been killed by the shapeshifter and sent the scan _before_ the kill order, then yes... but if they kill him before the scan order was sent no... That would put some stress on both scum and physhic to send they're order as fast as possible... (maybe 5 min tolerance or something)

PPS - Since I have no plans to play this game again maybe you should just agree at game start which rule one wants to play with.

[josiah1221]

Wow, that was a crazy game! Good job guys, even my nerves were shot reading through the last days posts. 

As for being the doctor, I botched it all up. Having not played in a while I wasn't in the right mind set. I didn't know what to do the first night. So I just protected myself. I had highly doubted I would be the first target. But As (bad) luck had it, I was targeted. Therefore blowing my cover to the scum, dooming me the next night. I should have came out on day 2. (Honestly I don't know why I didn't, just rusty I guess?!) My apologies!

On a positive note I chose to protect Riaise on night 2, just in case by some miracle I didn't get killed. So I at least made one right decision even if it didn't come to fruition. 

[Mandle]

OH MY GOD, I'm bloody useless at this game. That's twice I've stuffed it up, now.

Sorry Mandle, and VW, I had it RIGHT THERE and I couldn't see it. I genuinely didn't suspect Kastchey, though. You played that perfectly. Well done to you and PP. That was a really good game.

Like I said, their ploy would have fooled me too, and in fact Kastchey DID fool me so I'm as much to "blame" as anyone, moreso actually because my actions set their entire plan in action. Easy to see in retrospect but not at the time. All part of the fun.

I think the real reason I trusted Kastchey was that he played the "I'm not very experienced at this game" card perfectly in his PMs and I underestimated him and thought it was too much of an active/ballsy move for a newbie player to try.

(Most newbies tend to try to lay low if they are scum which often gives them away. When I used to play hardcore we sometimes played on a seperate board and everyone signed in with different nicknames so we didn't know who was playing or who each other were in RL for this kind of reason. Made for a disturbing new level of paranoia and you had to be careful of your writing "tells" or try to copy someone elses.)

At first I thought the opposite and even told him that the fact he was contacting me made me think he was scum, but then he said something like "I'm new to these games and didn't know that PMing someone was weird" or something like that which made me think he was good team after all.

And, like I said before, I didn't really suspect him on day one. I was trying to see who would jump on a bandwagon of votes, then cancel my vote before the end of the day, and scan one of the bandwagoners that night.

Privateer Puddin', did you consider voting against Kastchey with me on Day One as a fake out ploy in case Kastchey was actually lynched? Would you have voted him if another person had after me? Just curious.

[Mandle]

Also, I apologize for attempting to break the AGS multiple posts record at the end there. (The countdown tribute to Aliens was fun though)

Like I said to Vampie Wombat in PM, if anyone has been in my position where they know they are innocent but everyone is against them, they know how frustrating it is. But that frustration is just part of the fun. I never actually get angry at such times (although I used to when I first started playing, LOL).

[Riaise]

I forgot to say thanks to Sinitrena for hosting the round. The theme was good, and I think it helped to build the tension, so thanks for that!

Did I limit the powers of the Doctor too much, by not even revealing that someone (without telling you who) was protected and instead left the possibility that the murderers just choose to not kill anyone?

I think you gave the right amount of information about the doctor. It feels to me like it would be a bit too "cheaty" to know that the doctor had protected someone.

When the Psychic is killed during the night, should the results of this scan be allowed to be included in the Last Words?

I think this should be allowed. The Last Words are really only relevant to the psychic anyway, the rest of us would just basically say "good luck!" to the rest of our team. Perhaps the psychic could scan during the day? So they send you the name of who they want to scan by the end of the day phase and you send them the information about that person when the night phase begins. Then they can do whatever they like with that information, and if they are killed it can be revealed in their Last Words. Would that work, or would it ruin the flow of the game?

On a positive note I chose to protect Riaise on night 2, just in case by some miracle I didn't get killed. So I at least made one right decision even if it didn't come to fruition. 

Aww, thanks!

I was thinking about future scenarios and I thought it could be fun to do one where we turn the roles on their head, so the "good" team are actually bad and the "scum" are actually good. Something like the "town" are a criminal gang, and the "scum" are undercover police officers who have infiltrated the gang. The "doctor" could be a bodyguard of sorts and the "psychic" could be a hacker, or something along those lines, who can look up people's files. The "deaths" could be a player's home being raided and them being taken to jail, while lynchings would stay pretty much the same. It could make for an interesting change in the way the game is played.

[Sinitrena]

I forgot to say thanks to Sinitrena for hosting the round. The theme was good, and I think it helped to build the tension, so thanks for that!

It was a pleasure, as always.

When the Psychic is killed during the night, should the results of this scan be allowed to be included in the Last Words?

I think this should be allowed. The Last Words are really only relevant to the psychic anyway, the rest of us would just basically say "good luck!" to the rest of our team. Perhaps the psychic could scan during the day? So they send you the name of who they want to scan by the end of the day phase and you send them the information about that person when the night phase begins. Then they can do whatever they like with that information, and if they are killed it can be revealed in their Last Words. Would that work, or would it ruin the flow of the game?

I really liked that idea when I read it. It makes sense... And then I realized that it only changes when the problem manifests: The Psychic can just as easily be killed during the Day Phase, so if we allow the scan during the day, the rule would still be that actions happen at the same time (generally speaking), so lynching and scanning would happen together and would we then allow the results of this scan to show up in the wrap-up post for the Day Phase?

[Riaise]

That's true. I didn't think about what would happen if the psychic is lynched.

[Kastchey]

How I imagine Kastchey right now:

Spoiler: ShowHide

Frankly speaking it did kind of feel like that... I was constantly on edge, considering the possible outcomes and figuring out what was the best possible way to get out of each of them. This game gets into my head WAY too much :<
It was taxing, but also super cool at the same time.

OH MY GOD, I'm bloody useless at this game. That's twice I've stuffed it up, now.

No you're not! In fact, if you weren't good at this game this whole scheme wouldn't have worked. Whilst I admit that I was selective with the information I gave you and that anything that could have led you to a different version I avoided like plague, your conclusions were perfectly logical. It was simply an alternative that could have happened, and it didn't last long either - it didn't even take you an hour to realise there was another possibility.

I have to agree with that one, it was stressful, even for me. When I looked at the votes yesterday they were pretty clear and then you all change them and then you nearly change them again so close to the end. Makes writing a bit difficult.

I can imagine! I bet we were driving you nuts there when you were secretly observing us, trying to write the phase end narration and we'd keep wrecking everything And as always, thank you for the wonderful narration, Wheel of Fate. I think everyone takes it for granted by now given that you never fail to deliver, but I felt like I needed to say it again.

PS - I don't think the Psychic should be alowed his last scan, since he technicaly was lynched during the day time.

The way I understand it, if the Psychic is lynched they do not get to scan anyone the following night. The question was more likely related to the Psychic being killed by the scum. And as far as I have read threads on other forum WW games that use journals, the Psychic is usually allowed to deliver the results of the last scan as it is assumed that the actions take place simultaneously (i.e. everyone who is alive by the time the phase starts is allowed to fully use their powers). So I agree with what Riaise said, I think the Psychic should be allowed to put the scan results into their last words. There is of course the technical difficulty of communication and timing - if the night phase results are supposed to be revealed simultaneously to everyone, the Psychic kind of has the upper hand by knowing part of it slightly earlier than others. But then again, if the Psychic is killed they are no longer allowed to communicate with other players, so perhaps it wouldn't matter as much. Alternatively, the GM could perhaps chime in with "another page" of the journal during the day phase as soon as the killed Psychic comes online and declares they want the scan results added to their last words.

When I used to play hardcore we sometimes played on a seperate board and everyone signed in with different nicknames so we didn't know who was playing or who each other were in RL for this kind of reason. Made for a disturbing new level of paranoia and you had to be careful of your writing "tells" or try to copy someone elses.)

Damn, that is awesome! Of course, some of us know each other well enough to be able to tell from the style alone who is who, but it's always easier when it's in your head than when it's really happening. Anyway like you said, this kind of thing brings paranoia to an entirely new level. I think I'd like to play such a game one day.

I was thinking about future scenarios and I thought it could be fun to do one where we turn the roles on their head, so the "good" team are actually bad and the "scum" are actually good. Something like the "town" are a criminal gang, and the "scum" are undercover police officers who have infiltrated the gang. The "doctor" could be a bodyguard of sorts and the "psychic" could be a hacker, or something along those lines, who can look up people's files. The "deaths" could be a player's home being raided and them being taken to jail, while lynchings would stay pretty much the same. It could make for an interesting change in the way the game is played.

I think this is a fantastic idea. It feels very fresh and with the right theme, it could make for an excellent story.
As for the story by the way, this came to my mind still whilst we were still playing but I didn't want to go off topic before the game ended. How about a game taking place in a creepy hospital? Perhaps even the 19th century style "lunatic asylum"?

[Kastchey]

(Also, forgot to add... if this tendency continues, I feel people will start lynching me on Day 1 by default just in case )

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[Sinitrena]

You guys know that the no editing rule only applies during the game, right? 


I also think the Psychic should be allowed to include his last scan, but I just don't know how to do it.

- allow him to give the last words after his death is revealed in the wrap-up post? The problem is that people could have posted already and influenced what ends up in the Last Words (and there might be some time between Night Actions and Last Words in this case due to time zones.)
- reveal the scan results earlier (say after 12 h of the 24 h Night Phase time) to the Psychic, and thus allowing the Psychic some time to write his Last Words (e.g. 12 hours) without him actually knowing what happens at the end of the night? Again, time zones are a bit of a problem here and the Psychic would have a lot less time to do his scan (Extending the Night to 48 hours would help, but would also drag the game quite a bit.) and could talk things through via PM even though he's not supposed to.
- let the GM add the last scan results to the player written Last Word (that's actually what Mandle asked me to do). That's the easiest solution, but the Last Words should be given by the player, I think. Still, as the roles are revealed in case of death anyway, why not the scan results as well? I think I lean towards this solution.

The Last Words are really only relevant to the psychic anyway, the rest of us would just basically say "good luck!" to the rest of our team.

I forgot to answer to that part: It is true that Last Words are mainly for the benefit of the Psychic, but the longer a game runs the less this is the case. A "normal" could include in his last words something like "I know who the Psychic is and he scanned..." without revealing the Psychic - and because it is revealed that they are normal, it does become relevant. Again, that's more for longer games with more players and more rounds.

(Also, forgot to add... if this tendency continues, I feel people will start lynching me on Day 1 by default just in case )

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Well, in that case we'd have to remind people that I litarally write all names on scraps of paper and put them in one of my hats. 
But after this round, it might get difficult to get people to trust you again.