MCU Phase 4

[Stupot]

I'm getting a little bit fed up with the MCU to be honest. Disney takes enough of my money as it is. But dammit if they don't know how to spin a good superhero yarn. I guess I'm hooked for another few years at least:

Marvel Phase 4 - Official dates:
Black Widow 2020
Eternal 2020
Shang-Chi  2021
Doctor Strange 2 2021
Thor 4 2021

Mentioned, but no dates:
Fantastic 4
Blade
Black Panther 2
Captain Marvel 2
Guardians vol. 3
X-Men

Ive got a few questions:
1) with the core Avengers arc over and done with, what is going to be the glue that holds phase 4+ together?
2) where does Spider-Man 3 fit into this?
3) what about the Deadpool and Venom crossovers. I thought that had been confirmed.

4) are you planning to watch the many TV series being planned (Hawkeye, Scarlett Witch, Loki and God knows what else)? I think I'm going to have to draw a line and say no to those. There are other shows.

[Mandle]

I got pretty sick of the whole thing about 3 years ago.

I've been keeping up with The Avengers on DVD because they are always entertaining. I haven't seen End Game yet so no spoilers please.

I've also been watching the movies that seem essential to understand what's happening in Avengers (still have to watch Captain Marvel before End Game).

I'll also continue watching the Thor movies because they are the best of the lot in my opinion.

But, apart from that, I'm pretty much done.

I never even started on the DC extended universe, except for Wonder Woman because I heard it was good.

I'd say, now with Avengers done, the interest in the superhero genre will slowly start to fade and, 10-20 years from now, people will be asking "what was up in the twenty-teens? Why was everyone so obsessed with superhero movies?" just like we look back on the alien invasion boom around the turn of the millennium.

[Laura Hunt]

I already got superhero fatigue years and years ago after watching the first couple of Sam Raimi Spiderman movies, the first 2 or 3 X-Men, and the first Avengers. And that's without having watched the standalone Capt. America, Hulk, Iron Man or Thor movies (which still to this day I have no interest in watching).

A couple of years ago I watched The Winter Soldier and Civil War and I still have trouble telling them apart, as they are both literally 20-minute plots padded out to 2.5 hours with lots of explosions and people punching stuff. Watched Guardians of the Galaxy around that time too and found it bland, generic and boring.

The first season of Jessica Jones was great. "Logan" was absolutely fantastic. Batman Begins was pretty ok. Wonder Woman was super fun but jfc was the writing dumb. The Doom Patrol and Swamp Thing TV shows look interesting and I might give them a chance, mostly because the source material is some of the most out-there "superhero" stuff that's ever been written. That's pretty much it for me.

And to think that as a kid, I could only dream of a superhero renaissance like the one we're having now.

[Danvzare]

I never even started on the DC extended universe, except for Wonder Woman because I heard it was good.

Same here. That was until a few weeks ago when I watched Shazam. That was a brilliant film, I'd highly recommend it.

I'd say, now with Avengers done, the interest in the superhero genre will slowly start to fade and, 10-20 years from now, people will be asking "what was up in the twenty-teens? Why was everyone so obsessed with superhero movies?" just like we look back on the alien invasion boom around the turn of the millennium.

I agree. It's only a matter of time.
I doubt people will look back at it and say "Wow, that was weird". Mostly, because I don't have that reaction when I look at the movie trends of the past. People will definitely point out just how many films there are for a single franchise though. 

[LimpingFish]

I've always played extreme catch-up with the Marvel movies (I've never seen one in the cinema). The last one I think I watched was...Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.2? Which, I guess, puts me eight movies behind the curve.

I have zero interest in most TV (never saw an episode of any of the Marvel/DC shows, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, or any other zeitgeist-y show), so...

Which all makes me sound a little bit snobbish, but it really is simply a lack of interest. Rest assured, I also have no interest in "worthy" films or TV, either (it's been a long time since I watched any sort of awards darling, for instance), so snobbery is definitely not an issue.

[Mandle]

20-minute plots padded out to 2.5 hours with lots of explosions and people punching stuff.

Yeah, that's kind of an issue with most superhero movies: They can have reasonably complex characters, interesting world-building, and a decent plot now and then but it almost always comes down to a beat-em-up to decide who wins in the end.

I really noticed that with Wonder Woman: I loved the first act with all the world-building and introduction to the island, adored the second act's fish-out-of-water story of Wonder Woman's introduction to the outside world, and was completely bored in the third act with the fight between her and the Big Bad. To be honest, the movie didn't need a big bad. They could have just had her get involved in a police case and fight some Nazi spies or even just regular thugs and it would have been fine. The whole supernatural super-powerful bad guy seemed unneeded to me.

(Off topic but, Fantastic Beasts has the same issue for me. I really, really hoped it was simply going to be a series about a guy who goes around meeting and dealing with different beasts in each movie and that there would be no "Voldermort" this time around. But, no, they had to have a cut-rate Voldermort AND it had to be Depp, who annoys the crap out of me. I had to pass on the second movie.)

I have zero interest in most TV (never saw an episode of any of the Marvel/DC shows, Game of Thrones, The Walking Dead, or any other zeitgeist-y show), so...

You should give Stranger Things a try (and Breaking Bad and Gravity Falls). Those are the only "recent" TV shows that I felt never let-down by.

[Danvzare]

(Off topic but, Fantastic Beasts has the same issue for me. I really, really hoped it was simply going to be a series about a guy who goes around meeting and dealing with different beasts in each movie and that there would be no "Voldermort" this time around. But, no, they had to have a cut-rate Voldermort AND it had to be Depp, who annoys the crap out of me. I had to pass on the second movie.)

It's a damn good thing you passed on that second movie. It was HORRIBLE!
It retconned things from the previous film with no explanation, most of the characters acted completely differently, nothing made any sense, and that's just the tip of the iceburg!
There's this running plot throughout the film which leads absolutely nowhere. Everyone ends up in this same place where this big event is happening, and I still have no idea how or why. And the character who CAN READ MINDS falls for the bad guy's evil plot, and abandons the person she loves to die so she can potentially marry him in the future (which makes no sense on every single level). It is absolutely terrible!
Even Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas is less confusing than this movie.

At least the first film is good though. 

[dactylopus]

I'm both interested and disinterested.  I'm experiencing a little bit of superhero fatigue, but the fan in me still wants to see a few of these.

Some look like they would just be good action or science fiction.

My favorite MCU character series are getting additional installments, so that's nice.  Interested in Thor and Guardians.  Also happy to see more Black Panther, Doctor Strange, and Captain Marvel.

Bringing the X-Men into the fold could be a great thing, but I lost interest fairly early on with the previous series of films.  Hoping Marvel will do it better.

I'm more anxious about the Fantastic 4, though.  I'm a big Silver Surfer fan and I didn't like what Fox did with that character (or the Fantastic 4 for that matter).  I'm hoping that they eventually do a good representation of him, but now that the Infinity War is over, frankly, I'm a bit less interested.

I also heard mention of a What If... series, which could have some great episodes.  My favorite What If... comic was this one:



Still, I'm not interested in paying for a new online streaming service.  So, even if it becomes an episode, I may never see it.

[Mandle]

My favorite "What If..." comic was something like "What If The Hulk Couldn't Change Back?"

It was awesome! Hulk was fighting The Thing and they both get hit with a Gamma Bomb, turning them both back into humans.

Ben Grimm comes walking out of the dust carrying an unconscious Bruce Banner.

Then Bruce wakes up, turns back into The Hulk and snaps Ben Grimm's neck like a twig, before bounding off to continue destroying the world.

Awesome!

[dactylopus]

Sounds awesome!  The What If... series had a lot of great stories.  Well, it definitely had a lot of stories...






Along the same lines, I wonder if they will ever have a similar series for Star Wars.

Star Wars Inifinities and Visionairies were both fun reads, and would easily be more enjoyable to me than Episode 8.  But that's a whole other discussion, I suppose.

[Laura Hunt]

This is now canon though, both in the comics and for the next Thor movie. Seeing Natalie Portman wield Mjolnir actually sounds like something I might be interested in

[dactylopus]

Yeah, I thought that one in particular was interesting considering recent storylines.

[Stupot]

Oh, shit.

https://deadline.com/2019/08/kevin-feige-spider-man-franchise-exit-disney-sony-dispute-avengers-endgame-captain-america-winter-soldier-tom-rothman-bob-iger-1202672545/

What do you think? Is this for real or some kind of stunt?

[Fitz]

What do you think? Is this for real or some kind of stunt?

Nothing out of the ordinary. These big studios would rather choke the gold laying hen - or at the very least break all its bones - than give it over to the other studio. Disney killed the Netflix offshot of the franchise - with zero regard for how popular Daredevil and Punisher were. Because it's not about what fans want. Oh well... At least I'm not very sad about Spidey not being a part of the MCU - which I find heavily overrated. Try as I might, I don't care about the Avengers - the team or the individual heroes alike. I was actually enjoying Endgame way more than I thought I would - but then the climactic battle happened and it was just every bad thing about the whole franchise, times 3000 So I'm not really looking forward to their take on X-Men - which used to be my favorite Marvel team. Fox murdered it - but really, can MCU, with their fixation on the 60's canon, give me anything I - an 80's/90's kid - would want to see?

I think I'm just bored of the decrepit, kitschy classics being portrayed in the straighforward, superserious way, reiterating stories already told. I'm having way more fun with the sillier ones - like Deadpool, taking the piss out of everything, or Guardians, Ant-Man or Spidey. which take many, many liberties with the comic originals. Homecoming basically tossing the whole 60s canon and skipping over the origin story was the most progressive thing the MCU had ever done. Vulture was also by far the best MCU villain so far. Very meta.

Speaking of meta - Amazon's series "The Boys" does many brilliant things. I had zero expectations, thought it'd be bland, human-centric stuff like Agents of Shield or Powerless - but oh man, it's something else!

[Snarky]

can MCU, with their fixation on the 60's canon, give me anything I - an 80's/90's kid - would want to see?

Most of the MCU movies (that have a specific basis in the first place) are loose adaptations of comic arcs from the 90sâ€"00s or even later, though.

[Retro Wolf]

Disney killed the Netflix offshot of the franchise...

Actually Netflix did that themselves, possibly in retaliation for Disney announcing their own streaming service, and they cost a lot of money. Disney was surprised by the decision.

[Fitz]

Most of the MCU movies (that have a specific basis in the first place) are loose adaptations of comic arcs from the 90sâ€"00s or even later, though.

That may be. Still, I feel completely detached from it since it's just not the Marvel I grew up with - which was mostly the adult Spider-Man of the McFarlane era, and X-Men from Claremont onwards (post-Phoenix, and into the Jim Lee era). I revered villains such as Venom and Hobgoblin, and even at the age of 10 or so I considered Green Goblin campy (and I liked that infamous Captain America movie, so that says a lot about my standards back then). The Avengers seemed archaic - an impression furthered by the cheesy TV series. I'll admit I might be biased because of that alone - but there are just so many things about the whole franchise that either do nothing for me (the supposedly iconic cast) or just inexplicably irk me (the whole political thriller vibe, agents and offices, or pompous royal figures).

Actually Netflix did that themselves, possibly in retaliation for Disney announcing their own streaming service, and they cost a lot of money. Disney was surprised by the decision.

Huh! I wrongly assumed the House of Mouse was the big bad. My bad.

[Stupot]

Fitz, you have to remember. Feige and co. are not making these films just for the comic book fans. They're making them for the masses. They want absolutely everyone to be able to watch these things. And they work hard to make sure that the highest percentage of those people also enjoy it. As a result the one sub-group most likely to get upset by anything in the MCU are the comic book fans, because they have their own ideas about how things should be. Whereas someone like me who didn't grow up on superhero comics can go into Marvel film and just enjoy it.

I suspect that even if everyone who ever read more than 10 comics were to evaporate into a cloud of dust, these films would still be the biggest-films on the planet. The fact that they do use existing storylines from the comics shows that they do genuinely love and respect the source material, but at the end of the day it's about making it accessible to everyone.

Case in point. I thought the final battle of Endgame was amazing, if a little bit too long. Because as someone who never read the comics I have no preconceptions about what should or shouldn't have happened.

[Mandle]

I thought the final battle of Endgame was amazing, if a little bit too long.

Describes the whole movie perfectly!

Everything was awesome so, for me, about halfway through all the awesome moments just started to blend together.

Spoiler

By the time they got to the "Avengers, assemble!" line, the moment the entire franchise has been building up to, I was kind of like "Yes, awesome! But please get on with it!"

[close]

A good movie that should have been two shorter movies.

[Snarky]

That may be. Still, I feel completely detached from it since it's just not the Marvel I grew up with

Each to their own. I think it also exemplifies that every fan has "their" Marvel universe: an era or a set of characters/teams or creators that they prefer over the others.

Personally, I didn't really read much Marvel growing up, but as a teenager in the nineties I was really into the Vertigo/indie crime comics written by Rucka, Brubaker, Bendis, Lapham, Azzarello et al. So once many of them got snapped up by the big two around the turn of the millennium, that's what got me into Marvel. My real introduction to the universe was Alias (Jessica Jones), and I read a bunch of the Ultimate universe, Daredevil, Brubaker's Captain America, etc.

So from that background, the MCU makes a lot of sense to meâ€"particularly when you throw in the Netflix shows. There are some characters/films that don't resonate with me, like Doctor Strange, but overall there's a lot of stuff I recognize and like.