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Author Topic: Maniac Mansion Mania Mini Masterpieces #4: Berthold's Return (German, English)  (Read 2259 times)

Hello everybody! I present to you my game Berthold's Return, an entry in the Maniac Mansion Mania subseries Mini Masterpieces.





Story:
Berthold, Bernard's evil doppelganger, is back. On a mysterious mission he breaks into the Bernoulli estate to execute his assignment...

Features:
* short playtime
* 16:9 aspect ratio
* all original assets, apart from the default ones present in the starterpack
* overhauled background graphics
* animations
* english translation

Download

I've done the english translation myself. I hope it's not all too awful.

Sorry in advance if I done anything wrong regarding the rules.

blur

    • blur worked on one or more games that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • blur worked on one or more games that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Sensitive people should probably not play this, especially those who got very agitated in the Best Movie by Hitchcock? thread.
So, I wonder: It is a point and click adventure game, but what's the point?

Ben X

  • Formerly bbX1138
    • Ben X worked on one or more games that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • Ben X worked on one or more games that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Sensitive people should probably not play this, especially those who got very agitated in the Best Movie by Hitchcock? thread.

Just to be clear, are you saying this game has scenes of sexual assault in it?

blur

    • blur worked on one or more games that won an AGS Award!
    •  
    • blur worked on one or more games that was nominated for an AGS Award!
I am not a lawyer: In some regions it would clearly fulfill that claim in other regions it would "only" be assault, kidnapping and torture.
To finish the game you have to:
Spoiler: ShowHide

* kiss the girl
* stun her with the chloroform soaked sock
* tie her down with the duct tape
* lock her in the chest in the basement


Danvzare

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    • Danvzare worked on one or more games that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Sensitive people should probably not play this, especially those who got very agitated in the Best Movie by Hitchcock? thread.
So, I wonder: It is a point and click adventure game, but what's the point?

Thanks for the heads up.
I should be fine, but warnings like that are always appreciated.

Can the moderators please take a look at this and decide whether it's acceptable to have such a game in the official AGS database? I tried using the report function but I'm getting a database error.


When did everybody become so sensitive? It's nothing you don't see in any given cop show.
Spoiler: ShowHide
You have to kidnap the girl, transform into her and hide her to temporary take her place. That's the story of children cartoons. How can this be assault or torture?

Snarky

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Can the moderators please take a look at this and decide whether it's acceptable to have such a game in the official AGS database? I tried using the report function but I'm getting a database error.

Hoo boy!
That's a question I don't think we've ever been asked to take a position on before. It's not a decision I, for one, would want to make.

In general, there are tons of adventure games (and other computer games) where you have to do terrible things (including murder, cannibalism, animal abuse, etc.), or where you play as terrible characters. That doesn't necessarily imply an endorsement of those actions, and disallowing them would be very restrictive censorship. At the same time, clearly some things are over the line. (Some content would be illegal, for one thing.) But how do we determine that, particularly if we have to play through the game to see the material in question in context?

In this specific case (based on the descriptions in this thread)… Well, there are so many adventure games where you drug someone, and often strip them and stash them somewhere, usually as a way to steal their clothes for a disguise. (I think the latest game I played with a version of that puzzle was Unavowed.) The details make it sound like this instance is somewhat more disturbing, but not (in my view) orders of magnitude so.

For context, we permitted this game, which reportedly features hardcore sex scenes where the player-character performs rape by coercion as an optional path. (There was no real debate about whether to allow it in the db, only about what sort of screenshots could be featured on the site.)

Thanks for the elaborate reply, Snarky. This is the kind of mature response I was hoping for (rather than the moronic knee-jerk "pEoPLe aRe sO sEnSItiVe tHeSE dAyS *fart noises*"), and I see your point that this straddles a fine and maybe not-so-obvious line. I think it's very positive that anybody can bring up their concerns with the moderators and get an articulate and well justified reply, and I obviously respect your decision.

Another member from the Maniac Mansion Mania community here.

After reading this thread I feel like to slightly clarify some things.
It'd be a little bit unfair for the creator to give his game the reputation of a game which features a borderline story that's not for the faint-hearted.
To tell if this game really crosses the line, well, you need to try it for yourself.
Sure I know some rather sensitive people would rather refuse playing a game where you particulary don't know what to expect. Especially when there is a discussion like this.

So I give (or I try) to give an objective (pre)view, what to expect (and not to expect!) while playing this game.
- Protagonist carries out crimes.
- No heavy graphical violence like blood.
This is my opinion of this adventure, reading a book where you read in the perspective of the criminal will most likely describe truly repulsive scenes.

Briefly summarized, you should not judge a game by it's comments of it's release thread.
If there are people who are afraid of playing any game with for them inappropriate scenes, you (with you I am pointing at the AGS community) should introduce a content warning system, where the developer(s) can tick some boxes to describe what possibly inappropriate content the player can experience. (And such content warnings are for example visible on the AGS database entry of a game)

Ben X

  • Formerly bbX1138
    • Ben X worked on one or more games that won an AGS Award!
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No one here has judged the game, we've discussed the contents of it.
Considering the developer thinks that
Spoiler: ShowHide
chloroforming a woman, duct-taping her up then shoving her in a chest (and perhaps forcibly kissing her?)
is the stuff of children's cartoons, and called us all over-sensitive for simply describing the contents of the game, I'm not sure relying solely on a developer-led content warning system would be the best way forward.

Snarky

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I obviously respect your decision.

To be clear, I wasn't offering it as a decision, or even speaking on behalf of the moderators as a group; it was just my personal reflections. Like I said, it's not a decision I would wish to make, and thankfully it's not my decision to make. (I guess it's ultimately up to AGA; if he doesn't have a position it probably then would fall to LimpingFish as moderator of this board; if he's in doubt it would then go to discussion among the moderators, and we might in turn seek input from the community.) I certainly understand that different people will have different perspectives on this (the Hitchcock thread had some very thought-provoking ones)—I don't want to suggest that my own view takes precedence.

To Cone Arex, I'm sure it feels unfair that all the responses so far are about what I take it you consider a minor and innocuous point in the game. And perhaps it is. Or perhaps it's a problematic or misguided element (possibly shared by several other games in the genre) in an otherwise great game. In either case, and unless the game is fundamentally hateful, congratulations on your first AGS game (posted here, anyway)!

If there are people who are afraid of playing any game with for them inappropriate scenes, you (with you I am pointing at the AGS community) should introduce a content warning system, where the developer(s) can tick some boxes to describe what possibly inappropriate content the player can experience. (And such content warnings are for example visible on the AGS database entry of a game)

Such a ratings system is already in place. The author has marked "none" for all the categories covered: sex/nudity, violence, and bad language.

Considering the developer thinks that
Spoiler: ShowHide
chloroforming a woman, duct-taping her up then shoving her in a chest (and perhaps forcibly kissing her?)
is the stuff of children's cartoons

Considering that one of the most popular children's characters on German TV is a bad-tempered, depressive, anthropomorphic loaf of stale bread, who knows what they consider "normal".

To be clear, I wasn't offering it as a decision, or even speaking on behalf of the moderators as a group; it was just my personal reflections. Like I said, it's not a decision I would wish to make, and thankfully it's not my decision to make. (I guess it's ultimately up to AGA; if he doesn't have a position it probably then would fall to LimpingFish as moderator of this board; if he's in doubt it would then go to discussion among the moderators, and we might in turn seek input from the community.) I certainly understand that different people will have different perspectives on this (the Hitchcock thread had some very thought-provoking ones)—I don't want to suggest that my own view takes precedence.

Thanks for clarifying. What I said still applies in any case, and appreciate that you took the time to offer your point of view and explain what a complex matter this could be for the moderators. I personally find the aspects we've been discussing here repulsive and if I was the dictator of my own little forum I might not think twice about booting it, but with the context you offered about past similar situations, I can say I understand your position.

To Cone Arex, I'm sure it feels unfair that all the responses so far are about what I take it you consider a minor and innocuous point in the game.

If that's the case, then maybe he should be less ~sensitive~ *shrug*


Considering that one of the most popular children's characters on German TV is a bad-tempered, depressive, anthropomorphic loaf of stale bread, who knows what they consider "normal".
1. We all (nation-wise) have our weird kind of children, (or rather) teen targeted TV shows.
2. Shapeshifting creatures belong to the fundamental cast of fantasy creatures.

Considering that one of the most popular children's characters on German TV is a bad-tempered, depressive, anthropomorphic loaf of stale bread, who knows what they consider "normal".
1. We all (nation-wise) have our weird kind of children, (or rather) teen targeted TV shows.
2. Shapeshifting creatures belong to the fundamental cast of fantasy creatures.

r/woosh

Danvzare

  • The Man with No Name
    • I can help with AGS tutoring
    • I can help with proof reading
    • I can help with scripting
    • I can help with voice acting
    • Danvzare worked on one or more games that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Thanks for the elaborate reply, Snarky. This is the kind of mature response I was hoping for (rather than the moronic knee-jerk "pEoPLe aRe sO sEnSItiVe tHeSE dAyS *fart noises*"), and I see your point that this straddles a fine and maybe not-so-obvious line. I think it's very positive that anybody can bring up their concerns with the moderators and get an articulate and well justified reply, and I obviously respect your decision.
It'll be scary if and when such a decision is ever made. As the line will be drawn in the sand. And anything with that type of content, will be strictly prohibited.
While I admit that I do indeed have a line in my head, this particular game doesn't seem like it would cross it. So if this was to be considered inappropriate and removed, I would be worried for anything I made (now or in the future).
But yeah, Snarky's response was quite nice.  :-D

If there are people who are afraid of playing any game with for them inappropriate scenes, you (with you I am pointing at the AGS community) should introduce a content warning system, where the developer(s) can tick some boxes to describe what possibly inappropriate content the player can experience. (And such content warnings are for example visible on the AGS database entry of a game)

Such a ratings system is already in place. The author has marked "none" for all the categories covered: sex/nudity, violence, and bad language.
I think this is my biggest problem.
As I said, warnings are appreciated. But I think it's also safe to say that a lack of warnings is just wrong.  (wrong)

First of all: It was not my intention to spark an outrage with the game. But I also won't apologise for it. I'm still 100% behind it. If it's deemed inappropriate over such a minor thing, than so be it.

No one here has judged the game, we've discussed the contents of it.
Considering the developer thinks that
Spoiler: ShowHide
chloroforming a woman, duct-taping her up then shoving her in a chest (and perhaps forcibly kissing her?)
is the stuff of children's cartoons
It literally is: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CaptureAndReplicate What you are doing is taking it out of context and framing it as assault and torture. That's same as claiming that cartoons like Road Runner are promoting violence and suicide because a character was blown to bits after swallowing dynamite. Any episode of Family Guy that has Meg get beaten has more assault and torture than my game.

congratulations on your first AGS game (posted here, anyway)!
Thank you.

It'll be scary if and when such a decision is ever made. As the line will be drawn in the sand. And anything with that type of content, will be strictly prohibited.
While I admit that I do indeed have a line in my head, this particular game doesn't seem like it would cross it. So if this was to be considered inappropriate and removed, I would be worried for anything I made (now or in the future).
But yeah, Snarky's response was quite nice.  :-D

Note however that I never straight up asked for it to be removed; what I did was simply ask for a review precisely because of this. It is too easy to see things clearly when it's your line in the sand, which is why bringing these things up for discussion is good for everybody, I think.

If there are people who are afraid of playing any game with for them inappropriate scenes, you (with you I am pointing at the AGS community) should introduce a content warning system, where the developer(s) can tick some boxes to describe what possibly inappropriate content the player can experience. (And such content warnings are for example visible on the AGS database entry of a game)

Such a ratings system is already in place. The author has marked "none" for all the categories covered: sex/nudity, violence, and bad language.
I think this is my biggest problem.
As I said, warnings are appreciated. But I think it's also safe to say that a lack of warnings is just wrong.  (wrong)

Agree. Maybe there should be a "review rating" button to let the moderators know that the content warnings provided by the author might not be accurate?

Ben X

  • Formerly bbX1138
    • Ben X worked on one or more games that won an AGS Award!
    •  
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What you are doing is taking it out of context and framing it as assault and torture.

I didn't frame it as anything, I didn't claim anything about the game promoting mindsets, I just listed some player actions from the game. You're removing context by referring to some specific actions with specific modern connotations and framing them as a generalised fantasy trope.