Windows new service update!

Started by Slasher, Fri 12/03/2021 10:18:17

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Slasher

Aghhhh . Windows Update:   "Your version of Windows 10 will reach end of service soon. Click to download newer version of Windows 10 to stay supported."    Anyone done this?

Khris

The question is, why wouldn't you do that? You're supposed to keep Windows up-to-date, like any other app or OS.
Just turn on automatic updates.

WHAM

Quote from: Khris on Fri 12/03/2021 10:46:33
The question is, why wouldn't you do that? You're supposed to keep Windows up-to-date, like any other app or OS.
Just turn on automatic updates.

This. Unless one is working with a pay-per-megabit internet connection, I never understood why some people avoid software updates.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: The Night Falls, a community roleplaying game

Slasher

This was a different type of update: 2004.... I had heard people had trouble with it and it was not bug free.. Anyhow, updated and it seems fine...

Babar

Quote from: Khris on Fri 12/03/2021 10:46:33
The question is, why wouldn't you do that? You're supposed to keep Windows up-to-date, like any other app or OS.
Just turn on automatic updates.
I bothers me immensely when I'm just doing regular stuff, and then suddenly my computer demands to be restarted, with no other option.
Plus, I have to redo the removal of lots of the inbuilt windows spyware after every single update.
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Slasher

It has now wanted to install updates 3 times after restarting!

Blondbraid

I think what bothers me most is that all the updates don't even seem to do any difference, optimizing performance or anything that'd warrant the long loading times,
they just seem to slow my pc down before and for a short while afterward. I just don't get what they're doing.  (wrong)


Cassiebsg

Fixing bugs, installing more crap and sometimes breaking your system with their "improvement"...
I hate forced "automatic updates". All my software is set to "check, but ask me every time".
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

WHAM

Anyone can stop their Windows from updating if they really want. You can just kill off the Windows update service and force it to not work anymore.
You'll be happier for it precisely up until the point where some issue screws you over and you can only blame yourself for not having your operating system up to date.

I would not advise doing so, but hey: it's an option.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: The Night Falls, a community roleplaying game

Blondbraid

Quote from: WHAM on Fri 12/03/2021 20:06:42
Anyone can stop their Windows from updating if they really want. You can just kill off the Windows update service and force it to not work anymore.
You'll be happier for it precisely up until the point where some issue screws you over and you can only blame yourself for not having your operating system up to date.

I would not advise doing so, but hey: it's an option.
And that's the problem; you're not having a real choice, you're stuck between an awful default option or having your system fail if you refuse it.


WHAM

#10
Quote from: Blondbraid on Sat 13/03/2021 09:20:38
And that's the problem; you're not having a real choice, you're stuck between an awful default option or having your system fail if you refuse it.

It's a real choise just like taking your car to get its oil and filters changed every year is. Sure, the car might run for years without doing it, and it might feel kind of like a pointless waste of time, but you have every right to make that call if you want.

Think of this from Microsofts point of view: if they did not push the updates, and some attack against a vulnerability in Windows stole peoples data, ruined lives and wrecked finances all over the world out of the blue, how many lawsuits do you think they'd be facing? How many claims for damages because "they could have done something, but didn't".

This is something we were actually kind of taught in IT class back in the day: IT and software support and maintenance work is always thankless. If you do something and everything goes to plan, people think you are a waste of time. If you don't do anything and something goes wrong, people will fault you for not doing anything. Software updates are exactly the same.

EDIT: Besides, it's mostly a matter of "how is it meant to be used". Workstation operating systems are expected to be shut down at the end of the day, which allows them to install updates during the shutdown / startup process. Even server side operating systems are usually rebooted once every 1 or 2 weeks to install updates and keep them up to date. If you're running your home computer for 2+ weeks straight without a reboot, it's not really how this particular software product is meant to be used.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: The Night Falls, a community roleplaying game

Cassiebsg

#11
Sure, just take the option of choice away.
No matter if you're in a meeting/presentation for 2 hours and your computer/laptop just shutdown on it's own for an update... for the next 1,5 hours!  >:( (this is not a hypothetical case, it happened to me!)

PS - Plus, if you're on a laptop and shut it down cause you're almost out of battery, you really don't want windows updating at that time...

PPS - And I'm sure it's a serious security risk, that people were playing the inbuilt windows cards game offline. "Oh no, that can't be! We can't push our adds, lets just update and make it so it can only be played online!" Result? Waste of space on the HD, and me installing the old version (win 7) of the games.  (roll)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

AGA

You can choose not to install updates.  You can also choose to uninstall specific updates once they're installed.  They just don't make it obvious how to do it, since millions (if not billions) of people use Windows, and the vast majority of them don't know very much about computers (as this thread has proven...).

No company in the world is going to have an indefinitely long warranty period for old software, and if you want your system to be relatively secure and stable you have to live with keeping things up to date.  Or just use an older generation of every software, and be really surprised when someone uses the security flaws it almost certainly has to hack you.

Danvzare

Quote from: Babar on Fri 12/03/2021 16:37:15
Quote from: Khris on Fri 12/03/2021 10:46:33
The question is, why wouldn't you do that? You're supposed to keep Windows up-to-date, like any other app or OS.
Just turn on automatic updates.
I bothers me immensely when I'm just doing regular stuff, and then suddenly my computer demands to be restarted, with no other option.
Plus, I have to redo the removal of lots of the inbuilt windows spyware after every single update.
I've heard countless similar stories, but never had that problem myself, as I always set it up to download updates automatically but let me choose when to install them. Which essentially means the computer only updates when I turn it off.
As such I've literally never had Windows tell me it needs to restart. My anti-virus software has a few times, but never Windows itself.

WHAM

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Sat 13/03/2021 11:55:22
Sure, just take the option of choice away.
No matter if you're in a meeting/presentation for 2 hours and your computer/laptop just shutdown on it's own for an update... for the next 1,5 hours!  >:( (this is not a hypothetical case, it happened to me!)

PS - Plus, if you're on a laptop and shut it down cause you're almost out of battery, you really don't want windows updating at that time...

PPS - And I'm sure it's a serious security risk, that people were playing the inbuilt windows cards game offline. "Oh no, that can't be! We can't push our adds, lets just update and make it so it can only be played online!" Result? Waste of space on the HD, and me installing the old version (win 7) of the games.  (roll)

The forced reboot only happens if you haven't rebooted and installed updates for a very long time, so that seems like it'd be your own fault for not having taken care of the issue before. My guess is you most likely just always hit "later" when Windows suggests it needs to update, as that would definitely result in the scenario you describe. Same for the low power situation, as it implies either poor planning or just very bad luck. The latter we all have, sometimes, but being upset about that is no different that being upset that you ran out of gas on the highway because the fuel station you're user to visiting was out of order this time. And if you were just playing a card game offline, this would also not be an issue, since if you were always offline you'd never have updates to install. Not really sure what you were trying to get at with that one?

A home PC or laptop is designed around the idea of being shut down for the night, at the end of a user session, and not kept on or active 24/7. Even in corporate environments shutdowns are required on a regular basis, by any IT department worth its salt, to ensure up-to-date software systems.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: The Night Falls, a community roleplaying game

Cassiebsg

Why do I even bother?
It pointless, if you can't understand the simple option of choice.  (wrong)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

WHAM

Like I said before, it's a matter of limiting liability for them.
A lot of people will just keep clicking "later" forever and ever if you let them do that. And if you let them do that, if the proverbial turd ever hits the fan, you will be blamed for having designed an unsafe product, and the worst-case result might be countless lives ruined. Sure, for the few people trying to delay their updates forever and a day, having them forced on them at a bad time will be upsetting every now and then, but in the broader picture the damage done is far lesser than the alternate could be.
Wrongthinker and anticitizen one. Pending removal to memory hole. | WHAMGAMES proudly presents: The Night Falls, a community roleplaying game

Galen

Windows would be better decoupling security updates from feature updates when possible. As it is, I definitely want to keep my computer secure, unfortunately 2004 just plain won't install. Seems like Intel Management Engine is fubar on my computer (BlueScreen Viewers indicate this is the problem, and attempting to manually update it also bluescreens). I can only assume 2004 is bundled with some updated IME? Don't really want to reformat my shit, nor do I want to risk diving deep into installing IME if that means the install might not be able to roll back safetly. So eternally delaying this update it is. Actually, googling it to see if there's a fix yet it seems it's a specific combination of my CPU and motherboard, so it's likely not even a reformat or BIOS update would fix it. Joy. https://borncity.com/win/2021/02/21/windows-10-2004-20h2-update-fails-due-to-intel-management-engine/

Decouple that crap, Microsoft. I'd hate to imagine I'm missing important security hotfixes as a result.

AGA

Quote from: Cassiebsg on Sat 13/03/2021 22:03:37
Why do I even bother?
It pointless, if you can't understand the simple option of choice.  (wrong)

You have the choice (same thing should work on any version of Windows).

Cassiebsg

Thanks, will try it next time I turn the laptop on, probably in a month or so.

Though, it's still not really a "choice", it's a hassle and a lot of complicated steeps /there's 40 pages to that problem!), that I wouldn't be able to take or find out on my own.  A real choice would be "Turn this service off" and "check but let me decide when to update (and which ones to install, like Win7 did)".
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

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