AGS Website Redesign

Started by Hobbes, Sat 29/05/2021 04:30:08

Previous topic - Next topic

AGA

Just to warn you all, someone is working on a mock up of a redesign, so please nobody else start on one!

Hobbes

Quote from: eri0o on Mon 31/05/2021 14:31:16
The AGS games database is a must I think,It's useful for the AGS Awards and to help the community follow up the released games. It's useful for me to find games to test with ports too. Where does the Games DB goes in this?

You are so right! I have no idea how I managed to forget that... so a whole-site menubar with 6 main items would be my proposal.  :-D

tampie85

Quote from: AGA on Mon 31/05/2021 16:55:24
Just to warn you all, someone is working on a mock up of a redesign, so please nobody else start on one!

That's me :) I didn't want to put my name down, until I was sure that I could deliver something decent. So I've made a few mock up pages in a fresh and completely responsive design:


  • Homepage: [INVALID_LINK]
  • Games page: [INVALID_LINK]
  • AGS Engine: [INVALID_LINK]
  • Community Page:[INVALID_LINK]

A few remarks:

  • The mock-ups have only been tested in Chrome and Firefox on a desktop and a phone. If we go ahead with this I make sure it also looks good on other devices/browsers, including tablets.
  • All images and URLs are placeholders
  • The mock ups only show what an anonymous user sees, admin/logged in user functionalities are not included
  • For the games page, I used Heroine's Quest as inspiration. It is by no means a one-to-one copy of that page
  • I appreciate not all information on the current website is up to date, so my mock-ups might include outdated info, but that's easy to update later
  • I added the logged in user menu to the engine page

This is strictly about the basic design and lay-out, not about the content. I did my best to stay as close to the current design as possible.

One massive added value is that AGA and I can work closely together on connecting the frontend to the backend and it's very unlikely I go AWOL for a long time  :P
Spoiler
For the ones who don't know ... I'm his wife
[close]
[/s]

Please let me know what you think. Is this a style we should go ahead with?

Edit:

You can find the latest version of the new design here:

https://new-site.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/

Release notes for the redesign can be found in the menu under community > TEMP: Redesign Release Notes.

Please keep posting your feedback and comments here, I might not respond, but I read everything and try to incorporate it in the design.

Thanks!

heltenjon

I think I should only comment on the games page, as I, like some other users here, tend to go directly here or to the forums without visiting the splash pages. What I like about the current games page is how much information is available at a glance. The redesign uses larger letters, making it easier to read, but you have to scroll more. I think some of the most vital information ought to be visible at first sight, like the ratings. How many cups the game has received may determine if I want to read more about it.

I also tend to use the links/the information in the box to the right on the current page to navigate, either to look for games or read recent comments...perhaps check out a game many others are downloading at the same time. But maybe I'm the only one. I'm sure you have some sort of click count for those. I'd be sad to see them go, but I'll live.

I like that the "Vote" button is larger and emphasized (although maybe this, too, may benefit from appearing at first glance at the webpage). More people should vote, and making it visible is a good choice. The pull-down menus on top of the screen also looks pretty useful.

Now, I'm one of those grumpy old gits that swear when the shops reorganize and I can't find my pudding where "it's supposed to be". I realize that's all a force of habit. But even so, I hope the game pages and especially the forum pages will stay as close as possible to how they are today. A designer wants everything to be parts of the same style, but I've always cared more about functionality. If I can have both, then great, if not, I'll go with functionality every time. I think it's the AGS engine pages that really needs to be cleaned up. While it's not an issue here (yet, at least), I'll also chip in that I don't agree with Hobbes' suggestion about separating older posts from the forum from newer in some kind of archive. Perhaps it makes sense in the more technical threads? But if I want to play some OROW games, then I probably also will get the urge to read about the feedback the games got in their old thread. If I'm stuck in an old game, an old thread in Hints and Tips is just dandy.

I'll let the real designers and artists be the ones to give feedback on style. (I draw like a pig.) And if I've given feedback on the entirely wrong things, then I apologize.

Snarky

The first impression is good, in my opinion. There are a lot of things I might suggest tweaking, but as a first draft I think it's very promising. And it's nicely responsive and seems to work well on mobile (mostlyâ€"the splash image on the homepage should probably go above the text, or behind it, rather than below, for example, but that's details).

I'd lean towards not going too far in polishing the layout and visual appearance before working out the content and structure in more detail: thinking more in terms of what the user needs are and what the user journeys/flows should be like for different tasks, as well as current pain points we can fix. (I work as a service designer/user researcher, so that side of it is in my wheelhouse.)

To that end, I've put together some quick outlines of possible personas (user profiles), to clarify the needs of different types of visitors. These are based on my assumptions, experience and imagination, not any kind of real user research, so take them with a large pinch of salt, but they are a starting point:

Bruno â€" the auteur
Spoiler
Bruno has an idea for a game. Now he just needs to figure out how to make it. Bruno is a decent artist, but knows very little about programming or the technical side (only what he has picked up as a gamer), though he's willing to learn. His English is not great. His ambition is great, and he's thinking his game will be commercial. Bruno is browsing on his phone.

Bruno will be scared away by something that looks too difficult, and he will be put off if it looks ugly or very dated. He wants to understand the licensing terms and game distribution/platform options. He has a hard time navigating through links with non-obvious names. Bruno is going to need help from the community in order to make any progress.

If we satisfy Bruno's user needs, he will be impressed and fascinated by AGS, become a member of the AGS community, and eventually make a game.
[close]

Eden â€" the coder
Spoiler
Like Bruno, Eden wants to make games. She, however, comes at it from the technical side, and knows how to program, at least a bit. Eden is looking at a bunch of different options for gamemaking (including other engines as well as libraries to build "from scratch"), but it's all rather overwhelming, and hard to figure out the pros and cons of each. She's not an artist, so she's thinking of using borrowed graphics for her game at first, and maybe recruit someone to do graphics later. Windows is not her preferred OS.

Eden needs to be convinced that AGS is a good choice as an engine: that it is "professional," has a reasonable toolchain, is the choice of other game makers, and is actively supported. She will also value the various modules, libraries and free resources offered. Clean, informative and easy to find the engine download is what she wants.

If we can convince Eden to try AGS, she'll be at it for a while, learning on her own using tutorials and trial and error. She'll be a lurker on the forums, until maybe someday she registers in order to announce her finished game.
[close]

Omar and Nadia â€" the casual gamers
Spoiler
Omar is looking for games to play, both for himself and for his daughter Nadia (7). He's played some AGS games before (via Steam or Itch.io) without realizing, and has come here looking for "(free) games like [that game he played]." He finds a game and downloads it, but runs into some technical difficulties, and needs help. Omar is initially browsing on his phone, later on desktop.

Omar does not care about the AGS engine. He just wants to see some good game suggestions, and he wants a nice, appealing presentation of each game, with the information he needs to be able to decide whether he wants to give it a try. He wants to browse games by type (e.g. something for kids). Browsing is in itself a way to pass the time, but he would really like to be able to play the games immediately, too, or for Nadia to play on her iPad. He requires technical support at some point in the process (download/run/game crash).

If we meet Omar's needs, he'll become a regular AGS player, and will promote the games he likes on twitter or other social networks.
[close]

Sam â€" the AGSer
Spoiler
Sam has been involved in the AGS community for a long time, though they're not as active as they used to be. Sam visits the home page mainly to go to the forums, or to check out recent additions to the games db. Or, on occasion, even to add a game to the database, vote in the AGS Awards (and play the eligible games), or look up something on the wiki.

If we meet Sam's needs, they may remain active in the AGS community and contribute to the community in various ways.
[close]
[/font]

There are other possible personas (more dedicated gamers, engine devs, etc.), but I think this gives a decent sampling of the primary user types. The next step would be to run up a user journey or two for each persona, and see how the (current/proposed) design fares. And it should of course be checked with real users. I could set up some tests with a tool like PlaybookUX to get live user feedback on any design we'd like to test (even if just at a sketch/prototype stage), but it's not free, so I'd like to know that the results would be used before shelling out.

Snarky

Just from thinking about the personas, a few ideas suggest themselves:

1. I think the barrier to registering an account should be lower: this is of particular concern for Bruno and Omar, who might easily bounce at that point.
2. For people browsing on mobile (or any computer where they can't play the games), it would be nice if there were a way to bookmark/wishlist/save a game for later, under their account.
3. With eri0o's online AGS port, would it at all be possible to make games playable directly on the site? That would be a very cool improvement for casual gamers and those not on Windows PCs.

AGA

User accounts (and, more specifically, security) comes up all the time, as you may have noticed.  Spam is a constant battle though, and SMF apparently an easy target, so I can't promise too much!

We should definitely aim to map out some user journeys, and to design the structure of the site before I get stuck into actually coding it.  Whether we need any tooling, or could just sketch it on the back of a napkin (figuratively speaking) is a question though...

I would aim to refine what we already have, but not lose any functionality (somebody asked for every feature the site has, after all).  I think the games listings should be more like a web store, so ultimately it's a giant list, but can be dynamically searched and filtered to find exactly what you're looking for.  Rather than the current way of doing things, which is very web 1.5 and involves lots of different screens, submission of static forms, endless clicks to find what you want.  This will need a lot of input from the community for stuff like tagging games with categories, languages, platforms etc.

Discussions are going on elsewhere about moving how-tos and technical details off the main site and onto GitHub and the wiki, which I definitely agree would be better.  Helpful resources should be added to and maintained by the people doing the doing, rather than authored by people like me who haven't touched AGS itself in forever.  This would leave the main site as mainly about the games and the core info about selling the engine and editor's benefits.


Snarky

Quote from: AGA on Wed 02/06/2021 23:41:43
User accounts (and, more specifically, security) comes up all the time, as you may have noticed.  Spam is a constant battle though, and SMF apparently an easy target, so I can't promise too much!

Yes, but perhaps there are ways around it. For example, what if people didn't have to jump through quite so many hoops just to register, but we put limitations on their accounts (e.g. not able to post on the forums, or posts held for moderation) until more fully vetted.

QuoteWe should definitely aim to map out some user journeys, and to design the structure of the site before I get stuck into actually coding it.

Cool. Do I understand it correctly that the current site is hand-coded in PHP and CSS? Are you planning to stick with that, or move to some kind of CMS?

QuoteWhether we need any tooling, or could just sketch it on the back of a napkin (figuratively speaking) is a question though...

For my part, I have access to the tools I'd use through my job, but as you say, a rough user journey doesn't really require any very fancy tool to make. Anything that lets you put text in a grid will do.

I see that we have Hotjar and Google Analytics running on the site. Some of that data might be useful to inform the user journeys.

QuoteI would aim to refine what we already have, but not lose any functionality (somebody asked for every feature the site has, after all).

Perhaps, but not all requests are good ideas in the first place, and things also change. Some functionality should at least be hidden away pretty far back.

In particular, I think the user ratings of games are clearly not working as-is. Even games like Lamplight City, Feria d'Arles and Until I Have You don't have enough votes to show a rating. That whole form to fill in is just way too much, and hardly adds any valueâ€"the sub-ratings are pretty much useless anyway when so many of the games in the db aren't covered. Let's pare it down to a single star rating, which you can click to set directly on the game's page, and then an optional review. Maybe that way people would actually do it. And if we kept track of games that the user had downloaded (in a cookie), and showed a request for a rating/review the next time they visited, maybe we could get enough ratings that sorting/filtering by rating would make sense and not leave out major titles.

QuoteI think the games listings should be more like a web store, so ultimately it's a giant list, but can be dynamically searched and filtered to find exactly what you're looking for.  Rather than the current way of doing things, which is very web 1.5 and involves lots of different screens, submission of static forms, endless clicks to find what you want.  This will need a lot of input from the community for stuff like tagging games with categories, languages, platforms etc.

Yes, I agree completely. I think this would be a great improvement.

eri0o

Please no changes to the forums! I swear it's the best thing I use on the phone. Discourse and all similars are dreadful to use. It's 2021, phones have big screens with 4k resolution!

Now, on the rest of the website. The landing page has a prominent Download button on the new design, it needs an accompanied non-acent color button with some text like Learn More - I am assuming most people that hit the front page will do so from their phones and the Download may be a confusing Call to Action for mobile users - there's no AGS Editor for mobile phones.

I think maybe one or two actions could move out of the hamburger menu similar to how is on Zoom website, but I don't know the right words to put on the outside.

About the Web Port, if archives hadn't been killed it would be cool to integrate, I am down for helping with it in any way possible if people have ideas. Does itch.io or gamejolt allow for an embedded view of a game be placed in a different website? It also may be possible to unzip in JS and load directly from a zip to the webport, I haven't done because I was lazy, but if it helps in any way I can do it. Maybe if people want to select some free games (and AGA has the bandwidth), I could prepare them in web playable format.

About the placeholder images, I know they are placeholder, there was a design proposal from 2015 from a dude named WRK and he made some pixel art images for these, it may be cool to add things like that. If someone has photography talent, the editor maxed on a monitor debugging a game could be a photography to put - not screenshot, photography.

About the design in general, I liked we got a new color (Orange) to go along the blue.

I think it's fine to put a donation button in the landing page, paying the servers costs is important. The things people are saying in the forums is gone, is this intentional?

AGA

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 03/06/2021 00:17:20
Yes, but perhaps there are ways around it. For example, what if people didn't have to jump through quite so many hoops just to register, but we put limitations on their accounts (e.g. not able to post on the forums, or posts held for moderation) until more fully vetted.
I've just reenabled Bad Behavior, just in case it decides to work this time.  Let's see.  But yeah, a simpler quiz, probation period, mod authorisation of accounts, we'll find something.

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 03/06/2021 00:17:20
Cool. Do I understand it correctly that the current site is hand-coded in PHP and CSS? Are you planning to stick with that, or move to some kind of CMS?
Handwritten in PHP and CSS, yeah.  An idea I've floated elsewhere is to maybe use the wiki as the source of less complicated pages' content, as that's access controlled and has decent editing options (including visual options nowadays).  I did a little POC of that a while ago, and it's definitely doable enough.  I'd rather not use an off the shelf CMS, I quite enjoy writing my own stuff.

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 03/06/2021 00:17:20
I see that we have Hotjar and Google Analytics running on the site. Some of that data might be useful to inform the user journeys.
Hotjar isn't running anymore, as I think the trial licence I had expired, or the markup for including it changed or something.  Google Analytics has been running unbroken for years though.
Turns out Hotjar changed their pricing model so that you have to manually start recording on the free plan, rather than it being rolling.  So it hasn't been on in forever because I didn't tell it to.  As is it I get a 100 visit 'snapshot' that I can restart as required.  I just started one, to see what I see.

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 03/06/2021 00:17:20
In particular, I think the user ratings of games are clearly not working as-is. Even games like Lamplight City, Feria d'Arles and Until I Have You don't have enough votes to show a rating. That whole form to fill in is just way too much, and hardly adds any valueâ€"the sub-ratings are pretty much useless anyway when so many of the games in the db aren't covered. Let's pare it down to a single star rating, which you can click to set directly on the game's page, and then an optional review. Maybe that way people would actually do it. And if we kept track of games that the user had downloaded (in a cookie), and showed a request for a rating/review the next time they visited, maybe we could get enough ratings that sorting/filtering by rating would make sense and not leave out major titles.
By 'refinement' I mean very much things like you suggest.  We should keep user rating, but trim the fat, and make it more usable and approachable.  Even a thumbs up thumbs down system like Steam has can work if you userbase is big enough.  We already track per user download stats, to avoid for instance game authors hammering their own download buttons to increase the download numbers (which again was implemented because it became necessary, not just to be mean spirited!).

Quote from: eri0o on Thu 03/06/2021 00:23:57
Please no changes to the forums! I swear it's the best thing I use on the phone. Discourse and all similars are dreadful to use. It's 2021, phones have big screens with 4k resolution!
Don't worry, the most that would happen to the forums is a more responsive scaling on mobile devices (along with maybe some colour changes to match the main site).  The core functionality of the site wouldn't change.  You can also just do 'view as desktop' on mobile if you really hate responsible designs!  I personally hate using the forums on mobile though, and I have a Galaxy S20+ with 6"+ screen!

Quote from: eri0o on Thu 03/06/2021 00:23:57
About the Web Port, if archives hadn't been killed it would be cool to integrate, I am down for helping with it in any way possible if people have ideas. Does itch.io or gamejolt allow for an embedded view of a game be placed in a different website? It also may be possible to unzip in JS and load directly from a zip to the webport, I haven't done because I was lazy, but if it helps in any way I can do it. Maybe if people want to select some free games (and AGA has the bandwidth), I could prepare them in web playable format.
I have all the Archives files.  I'd have to look at the feasibility of streaming them, but it's certainly not unthinkable.

Quote from: eri0o on Thu 03/06/2021 00:23:57
I think it's fine to put a donation button in the landing page, paying the servers costs is important. The things people are saying in the forums is gone, is this intentional?
I don't think anything's been deleted by staff, so perhaps the original authors edited or deleted their own posts?


eri0o

Sorry AGA, I phrased badly! I meant that little blank comic bubble that has Roger (I think?) face where it appears the 5 most recent forum posts. I think having things changing in the homepage improves SEO.

About analytics, not sure if interesting or not, there's a new one called plausible.io, which has the option to publish online the analytics.

Also, forgot to mention, I like the new wiki visual, it looks more smooth.

Pax Animo

I love the look of the new design. I've recently recommended AGS to a few people which commented that "it looks outdated" although they're been naïve I do understand their opinion. I personally found AGS from watching (densming) on YouTube which in around 12 years old. I do wish I found it earlier in my been.

Good luck with the plans.
Misunderstood

tampie85

I would like to suggest of having an agile approach and working with a small group of enthusiasts to get the new design in.

Snarky, I think it'd be amazing if you could dive into the personas, user journeys and collate all the great feedback that's already been given here. That should give an idea about flows/navigation and content.

Based on that we should have a few lists.
- What to keep and optimise.
For example the comments made on the rating system, if we can simplify, let's go for it. If it's adding a relatively large functionality let's do it after initial release. And by all means let's make sure that content is relevant and in order of importance (like on the games page voting might be more important than about, as suggested)

- What to move (e.g. to the Wiki). Let's move/copy this while the new website is being developed.

- What to remove. Just make sure that it doesn't appear anymore on the new design.

- What to add. For example, I really like Snarky's idea of favourites, and I can imagine a list of "already played " and "want to play" or something like that can help too. Those ideas can go on a list of improvements after initial release of the new site?

As a project group, I'd suggest:
- Everyone can give feedback, the more the better.
- Snarky, as mentioned I'd love you to use your experience and tools for the analysis.
- I'll do the web design and AGA will do the programming.
- It'd be great if someone could help with writing content (e.g. for the ags engine page) and someone to make relevant images. But we can work around that if noone wants to.
- It'd be great if we have some testers, AGA and I have testing experience, but I'd rather have some fresh eyes.
- If someone wants to work on something independent that can just be embedded, just propose it.

Does that make sense? I just would like to avoid that we aim for perfect and that it takes years before a first release.

sthomannch

The new design looks good and it seems that the navigation will be easier - the old design still looks good and is compact, but sometimes it is not so easy to find things. And for sure, newcomers expect a different look.

I agree with many here that the forums are still fine, form and functionality.

A few suggestions:
- On the welcome page, make sure that people see that they can scroll down, perhaps by moving content closer together or adding a down button or something.
- The new design is less compact but I don't mind scrolling, in fact it is better than jumping a lot from page to page. Looks very clean.
- The MAGS should also be easier to find than on the current AGS web site. Perhaps a pointer in the top navbar ("Community"? or "Play Games"?)
- Does AGS provide storage for games? A lot of games hosted on other services like mediafire, but these games tend to vanish after a while. Pulling them into an archive would keep them alive. But this means of course additional work (like relinking, renaming "compile.zip" to something etc.). Disk space: currently a few hundred gigabyte should suffice

I appreciate your efforts. Keeping a site like AGS up and running (and for years!) is a lot of work, and now a new design in parallel.
Best of luck!

Laura Hunt

I checked out the new design both on desktop and my phone, and I agree with most comments here that it looks fantastic. Much cleaner, more modern, and easier to navigate. My only nitpicks would be that "Think you've got what it takes?" sounds a bit too aggressive, and that maybe the list of features could be arranged in a nicer-looking way, but that's about it. I'm amazed at how this project got off the ground so quickly!

AGA

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Thu 03/06/2021 08:27:52
I checked out the new design both on desktop and my phone, and I agree with most comments here that it looks fantastic. Much cleaner, more modern, and easier to navigate. My only nitpicks would be that "Think you've got what it takes?" sounds a bit too aggressive, and that maybe the list of features could be arranged in a nicer-looking way, but that's about it. I'm amazed at how this project got off the ground so quickly!

Indeed it's been great to get so much input from people so quickly, and huge credit goes to tampie85 for managing to get so much done while juggling care of our ten month old son!


Reiter

Excellent work on the mock-ups!

I shall disclose that I find contemporary web design a detestable development. Sites these days seems to be obliged to maintain a minimum state of ugliness for its own sake. So take this as a luddite's perspective.
It is a very good mock-up. It is as 'up-to-date' as it must be without sacrificing what is important. It is an improvement, rather than an 'update'. It is very navigable now, and with clearer departments. Very well done!

One note, however, is that it may be good to include early in the Engine/Features page some concise information on licensing. Prospective users need to know if they can use AGS commercially or not, and under what conditions. I find this important, it is the sort of thing I want to sniff out quickly, at least. Oh, and it would be worth the while to emphasise that the Adventure Game Studio software is not only free but stand-alone and requires no accounts or dodgy subscriptions.

A splendid job altogether! It is far better than what one can expect in the modern website, and it is a demn'd good start! It is a spring-clean, a breath of fresh air.

There are some quibbles, of course. I imagine that the decidedly corporate illustrations here and there are place holders, and that they will be replaced. Now, they do look quite alright, and are well chosen. I do think, however, that something we produce ourselves would be better. They are very non-descript and minimalistic. In short, they fill precisely the right places, but I think that we need to replace them with our own (tea-muggy) illustrations. Something that is 'AGS-esque' while also professionally presentable.

I could contribute to that, if and when necessary, to the best of my capabilities. It is a future question, but I think it is important.

The text, I think, is placeholdery in places as well, but that is also more a matter of content than arrangement, which on the whole is quite excellent.

Also, I suggest that you to consider incorporating a light-blue shade to the currently white background. It is, in a way, the AGS colour, and it is much preferable to the ordinary plain white which seems to be the modern standard. It would retain the light and airy feel of the current mock-up, but it would make it a lot less searing.

The use of orange as a contrast/companion colour, meanwhile, is excellent!

As a final note, I do think that this is a design that will 'last' for quite some time, meaning that once the site has been done up, and there has been some spring cleaning and re-organising, it will not require big, recurring changes. It is effort well spent. Well done!

On the forums, I am of the opinion that they are excellent as they are. It depends, of course, whether they are practical to maintain like this, but if it is not urgently required, I strongly suggest that no significant changes are made. They work splendidly, and while perhaps a bit archaic (and thus better) as far as the internet at present stands, I do not think they are likely to cause any prospective AGS user to abandon the idea.

'SQUARE avatars?! Blasphemy! Blasphemy, I say!'

It seems to be the general opinion, and I am happy to hear that no significant changes are planned. Of course, if it becomes impractical or impossible to not change them, then it is a different matter.

Thank you once again for maintaining this site. These suggestions, while sincerely meant is and shall be secondary to what is possible and practical for you to make and run. It is the most important.

I shall see what I can contribute in the meanwhile. Stand by. This is excellent work, AGA & Tampie85. Most excellent.

Laura Hunt

Quote from: Reiter on Thu 03/06/2021 09:13:51
There are some quibbles, of course. I imagine that the decidedly corporate illustrations here and there are place holders, and that they will be replaced. Now, they do look quite alright, and are well chosen. I do think, however, that something we produce ourselves would be better. They are very non-descript and minimalistic.

Quote from: tampie85 on Wed 02/06/2021 20:23:32
  • All images and URLs are placeholders

Potajito

Quote from: Laura Hunt on Thu 03/06/2021 08:27:52
I checked out the new design both on desktop and my phone, and I agree with most comments here that it looks fantastic. Much cleaner, more modern, and easier to navigate. My only nitpicks would be that "Think you've got what it takes?" sounds a bit too aggressive, and that maybe the list of features could be arranged in a nicer-looking way, but that's about it. I'm amazed at how this project got off the ground so quickly!
Yeah, same. That "Think you've got what it takes?" is a bit offputting. Other than that, it looks great!

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk