Yufster HATE Thread.

[m0ds]

Although this post has not made me dislike Helm, which is something I probably will never do because he's been very helpful and kind to me in the past, I do agree that what he said was OTT and rather brash.

Yufster has calmed down now. Can't you tell from her muddy field avatar?

Good job we started Mittens, otherwise with just a forum in this state no one would be able to make friends.

m0ds

[DarkStalkey]

Defend himself why? Helm has been one of the oldest members of the community, way back before AGS got it's own domain, way back before anyone even cared about a windows version of roomedit, and if after all this time something has pissed him off to such an extent he wants to leave then I very much think he does not need to defend his actions. His reasons probably are much broader than Yufster's comment, which was just a catalyst for this. He has his reasons to explode, and I for one respect them. Blargh blargh.

[Raggit]

It doesn't matter how long any of us have been here, we never have the right to be threatning or harsh.  Just becuase Helm has been here oh so very long doesn't make him right.  He hasn't got a right to just tell Yufster to die and just leave.  No way.  

What I mean by defend himself is that this thread has spun out of control, and if he had anything he wanted to say about his actions, he should.


I get so sick of people telling others about how long they've been so any behavoir they display is okay.  Like, who cares?  At least that is what it sounds like.

Okay, hold it, now I'm just rambling on.  Let's slow this thing down a bit.

---second edit----

I don't know about the rest of you, but I vote for a resolution. What m0ds said makes since, "with a forum like this, nobody could make any friends."  This is true.  Before this forum is totally ripped apart I say that we apologize for any inappropriate things we've done in either of the two Yufster threads and shake hands.  Otherwise we can keep on fighting.

So for me, Helm, I'm sorry for going a little overboard here.  If you still dislike Yufster, work it out with her.  To the rest of you, I'm sorry if anything I've said has caused more harm than good between any of us.  I only hope this will help resolve some of the contrasts between us in this thread.  

[undergroundling]

I think this is just a matter of the "oldies" being pissed off that the "newbies" are taking over "their" board.  Let's not forget that everyone was a newbie at one point.  I'm pretty new to these boards, but I've tried to respect everyone here and I've always made sure to obey the forum rules.  You can't ask the newbies to respect people while you yourselves are disrespecting the newbies.

[DarkStalkey]

I never said he was 'right', or that being here a long time gave him a right to bark at Yufster.

I have never seen anyone claim that they can do whatever the hell they like here because they've been around a very long time. If you think that's what I implied in my post, read it again because you've read it wrong.

[DGMacphee]

Sigh!

I go away for a moderator holiday and look what happens!

Everyone hates everyone else and one of the moderators quits!

Tsk tsk tsk!

Okay, for a start don't blame Helm -- if anything, blame me (in a very santiagro-like way) for locking his previous thread.

In all honesty, his previous thread was a tactful request to Yufster and this seems to be an extention of that aggravation towards Yufster (only not as polite as the previous thread).

However, I spoke to Helm and he said he only over-dramatised the post for effect.

Secondly, I'm at odds in locking this post -- this is an issue that won't go away here and has caused another moderator to leave.

Yes, this is an oldies vs newbies thing -- and in that last post I buried my head in the sand on this issue.

Well, I can't ignore it anymore.

There are several people here who over-post!

Helm's posts are not just directed at Yufster (in fact, I think she's one of the lesser culprits) -- however, there are some users here who just post too damn much.

Their posts and not insightful nor do they spark some intelligent debate nor are they humourous.

I won't name names because it isn't the 50s, but let me put this thought to you:

IF YOU WANT YOUR OPINIONS RESPECTED, MAKE A DECENT ADVENTURE GAME.

Not just make an announcement of the 'Games in Production Forum' or a one room p-o-s -- I'm taking a decent, playable, and enjoyable adventure.

If not that, then contribute a set of tutorial or gaming articles -- not just one, but several.

That is what separates the "newbies" from the "oldies".

I.E. RESPECT FOR YOUR OPINION IS RELATIVE TO YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THIS FORUM

This is an adventure game CREATION forum -- we make adventures and discuss game making theory.

If you just want to talk about ONLY adventure games, how cool they are, and general stuff like how cool your tabby cat's hair is, FUCK OFF!!!

I do not agree with what Helm says -- I think it was very thoughtless.

However, I understand WHY he posted it and it's a similar feeling I've had, as have many others.

So, in light of this, I've made a little comic inspired by this post -- think of it as something similar to the 'Daisy' post:



And Indy says: So, remember kids -- Make a good adventure game before writing mindless rants!

Do as Indy says!

All of you -- Stop posting here!

Get out of the general forum (In fact, all the forums) until you've made a playable adventure game!

If you really just came to use this place as a chat service, go away -- Yes, I'm all for free speech on the internet, but there are a hundreds of other places where you can  give you opinion.

We don't mind the odd post while you create you adventure game, BUT don't come here for the sake of coming here and join just because you think the AGS Comunnity is 1337!

We're not 1337!

We couldn't care less about your opinion -- that is until you make an adventure game!

Sounds elitist? Maybe.

But that's what this place is for -- Don't Like it? Go away!

Now if anyone over-posts here with garbage again without having some backing to their name, I will make your life on this forum a living hell.

Don't believe me?

Look up the name 'Santiagro'.

On a final note, I'm very depressed that Dark Stalkey had to leave -- and here's the clincher: It wasn't because of Helm's post, it was because of all I have said above.

I'm all for newbies, but only if they make something useful for this forum and for AGS.

Don't pissfart about and make garbage rants!

Also, I'm leaving this thread open because, even though I don't agree with Helm, I shouldn't have locked his previous post and this is my way of compensating for that.

Helm may be irrational at times but he is able to make valid points.

And from this, I'm leaning to John Stuart Mill, regarding his thesis for liberal utilitarianism, part of which says "To silence opinion is to silence the truth".

End transmission.

[undergroundling]

DarkStalkey: I didn't intend that post to be directed at you.  It was mainly in response to Andail's post (although I mean him no disrespect), but it is also something I feel is going on throughout the community, and not just limited to any specific member.

And I never said that people claim that can do "whatever the hell they like here because they've been around a very long time," I merely stated that the oldies have a general disrespect for newbies while simultaneously demanding respect from them.  And this doesn't apply to all people here either, and I'm not going to name names because that's not what this forum should be about.

[DGMacphee]

We respect certain newbies, but only for reasons I state in my previous post!

[undergroundling]

Well, I haven't made a game yet, but I still feel that I (generally) contribute to these boards in a positive fashion.  I don't go around posting rubbish all the time and I try to be helpful when I can be.  If you look at all of my posts, you'll find that most of them consist of artwork for C+C, C+C on other's artwork, or other forum/AGS-related issues.

Do I not deserve respect just because I haven't made a game yet?

[Paranoia]

i admit we newbie do try to hard to fit in at times, and end up making it worse for ourselves, i must admit also of making some crappy posts.....
but at times we do feel looked down on, i won't name, names but it does happen, but i'm taking DG's advice, hes got a valid point, so i'll stickin to making games(which i've been doin anyway!), i just hope all this indifference gets sorted out soon, its a shame its come to this mud slinging

Paranoia

[DGMacphee]

Just to reitterate for people who didn't "get" my post and have to analyse it to every last word:

"I.E. RESPECT FOR YOUR OPINION IS RELATIVE TO YOUR CONTRIBUTION TO THIS FORUM"

Are you seriously making a game?

Are you contributing art or music for a game?

Are you writing game creation articles or tutorials?

If in the process of making your first game, is your daily post count minimal?

If you answered yes to any of these questions, undergroundling, please stay.

If you answered no to ALL of these question, get lost.

That simple.

[Trapezoid]

So can I assume that you waited until you had finished a game before you first joined the AGS community, DG?

[Flippy_D]

I don't think it's a matter of disrespecting those who haven't made a game, more like respecting those who have made a game that they've put effort into.

Take Las, he never even thought of making a game, but he's widely respected.

You don't have to make a game to be respected, but it helps.

[Jimi]

I think this post should be locked.

I think we've resolved the problem. Yufster IS making a game, AND contributing artwork to somebody elses game.

I've stolen DG's style of writing  

[SSH]

OMG: now I have paranoia: which camp am I in?

Newbie: I only started with AGS in January
Oldie: I help people out on tech/beginners forums
Newbie: I have had locked threads recently
Oldie: I have made three games
Newbie: but they were all rubbish and average about a score of 4 on the games page  :'(
Oldie: I'm working on Neole's Creation Game
Newbie: but "in production" is not enough
Oldie: I'm trying to help the "useful scripts collection"
Newbie: becoz i ares teh mighty |-|/\XXXX00OOR!

aaargggh! I'm so insecure!

[DGMacphee]

Trap: I lurked for 2 months trying to get a feel for the place, then posted minimally.

Then made my original 4-room Dark Hero demo, then Ultimerr, and posted a little more.

Then Stickmen, then started MAGS, then wrote articles, then AGS Academy, etc, etc, etc.

In other words, I earnt respect -- I didn't start ranting and raving until I had at least ONE adventure behind me.

If you're going to rant and rave without producing anything, expect this kind of reply from Helm.

-------------------

Flippy: Wrong -- Las made Novo Maestro, the leading game in humanistic expressionism and deconstructivism.

And he also posts VERY minimally, even though he's made an insightful game.

------------------

I think this post should be locked.

I think we've resolved the problem. Yufster IS making a game, AND contributing artwork to somebody elses game.

I've stolen DG's style of writing  

Wrong, it's not resolved -- if it were, everyone would be fine and dandy!

Like I said, Yufster is only the smallest tip of the iceburg.

---------------------

SSH: Just keep making games and you'll do fine.

[Trapezoid]

If Helm's post is not completely serious, and over-dramatized, and not actually meant completely for Yufster-- how can anybody call that honest? And how could he not expect it to confuse and mislead us?

[Paranoia]

rather than threads like this happening, why not IM members you feel are been a pain in the ass? so its done more privately?



Paranoia


* Paranoia waits for the IM............. *

[Flippy_D]

My mistake.

I didn't exactly arrive in style, though, did I. I think I pissed off a few people when I started out because I posted so much. Whether they were good posts or not, I really don't know. I can't remember.

People can mature.

[DGMacphee]

Trap:
I never said Helm's post was honest.

However, I did say he was sometimes 'irrational'.

And I also said he made 'valid points'.

However, sometimes you have to cut through that tough and mighty Greek exterior to understand his true sentimonies!

And trust me on that -- I have to honour of being Helm's antithesis back in the good ol' Ezboard days.

And now we're great friends, despite all our past bickering.

Paranoia:
When DarkStalkey (or any moderator) leaves like this, something has to be really wrong.

I still encourage private messaging your issues, but my previous post needed to be said.