Propose some fan-made adventures to cover in The Inventory

[dimidimidimi]

We've always been fan-friendly through our magazine, The Inventory (http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm) and be sure that we will continue to do so. I would appreciate it if you guys pointed out some fan-made adventures that you think are worth covering in a magazine with mass appeal.

We are mostly interested in games that have professional graphics - to give you an idea of what I mean with professional, some of the fan-made adventures that we have already covered are KQ2, Ozzie, Space Quest Prequels, Indy Foy, KQ9 and Space Quest 7- and that are quite long (i.e. we wouldn't be interested in an adventure that can be finished in half an hour) with a good gameplay and a descent interface.

You can mention both adventures that have been completed and that are 'under development'. Thanks.

[m0ds]

Awww Dimi come on. You can't just judge games by their graphics.

m0ds

[dimidimidimi]

Awww Dimi come on. You can't just judge games by their graphics.

You definitely can't judge a game solely on its graphics, but in my opinion it is a decisive factor on whether a game is good or not. Otherwise there would be no reason to try and create as better graphics as possible. I know many people have a personal preference when it comes to which one of a game's characteristics will play the most important role for deciding whether a game is good or not. Some will say that if the story's good, they don't mind some bad puzzles. Others say that if the puzzles are good, why do you need a good story. Some people will say that if the graphics are not good they are not even going to touch a game.

On The Inventory, when we review games, we use the following formula for coming up with the 'overall' final grade for a game

(Story x 2 + Gameplay x 2 + Graphics + Music) / 6 = Overall

With this formula we do give story and gameplay a higher importance than graphics and music, but at the same time we do not rule out music and graphics from the overall grade of the game. Now why would we want to show preference to fan made adventures with good graphics?

A) Because we can only cover X games each month on The Inventory out of Y games that exist out there. Making good graphics to accompany your game is a process that requires a lot of hard work. Especially when it comes to people who undergo such projects with no budget at all. So if we have to choose from the Y we might as well choose the X ones that are putting more effort in their projects.

B) Because we want to show through The Inventory that fan made games are as good as commercial ones. I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but some people out there might disregard the whole fan-scene because they played one or two fan made adventures that were not exacly top notch. And let's not hide behind our own fingers... not all fan-made adventures are really good enough to compete with the commercial ones (recent or older ones). I think in order to promote the fan scene we have to highlight its best first of all.

I don't mean to offend the rest who create games that don't have the state-of-the-art graphics. I am sure it takes a lot of time and hard work to create those games as well, and I admire all the fans out there for spending that time. But in the end, we will have to choose and we have to choose the best. And Mark, feel free to write about any fan-made adventure you want in the Talking Dead article regardless of their graphics   . I am talking more about interviews-long previews coverage.

[rodekill]

A) Making good graphics to accompany your game is a process that requires different amounts of work depending on your background in art. I think it's safe to assume that, say, Igor can probably come up with some spectacular art in about a hundredth of the time it would take, oh, me for example.

B) People who will disregard every game based on one or two games aren't worth my time and effort as a designer of free games. Not all fan-made adventures are trying to compete with commercial games (recent or older). In order to promote the fan scene we need to show people that games can be good beyond certain expectations, be it graphically or otherwise.

Let's put it this way, Little Willy is young and used to the current crop of games. The fancy high res good graphics kind. Should he write off Monkey Island because the graphics are no good according to what he's used to?

What a shame.

[Sylpher]

dimi

Though you gotta come to an understanding that we are not trying to prove anything to anyone. I think most of us are here cause we like adventure games and like to see them continue since the gaming industry doesn't care much about them.

And assuming games with better graphics means the designer worked harder is dancing on the border of an insult. Scripting alone takes a hell of a lot more work then gets credited in many cases..

"we want to show through The Inventory that fan made games are as good as commercial ones"

I agree that "fan made games" are good but to compare them to commercial games seems wrong.

"I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but some people out there might disregard the whole fan-scene because they played one or two fan made adventures"

So why on Earth would we want a person who disregards things without giving them a chance hanging around?

Like I said before I and I hope nobody here is out to prove anything. I can't agree with recommending any games with the intentions you seem to have with them...with that in mind..

'Lassi Quest' is a great game you should definetly check out in consideration...

[auhsor]

I agree to an extent to what dimi is saying. It is the games with good graphics that catch the eye of the reader in magagazines. Thats cool, but i think everyone agrees that it is the story and gameplay that are more important.

Take Phleahberg (however you spell it). Its a great game. One of the best in AGS, but its graphics don't really stand up to commercial games. But i love that game, and am looking foreward to the sequel.

So yeah, if you look in the Critics Lounge, there are a lot of promising artists out there. I can't really think of any recent game with great graphics and everything at the moment cos i havnt had time to download them. At least the graphics you seem to be wanting. Appretice is a great game with good graphics, but it is pretty short.

Just a suggestion. Maybe you could have a section in the inventory just fo amature games or something. You know the short but good ones. I don't know, you seem to have a lot to do already, so maybe that isn't a good idea.

Oh well, keep up the good work on The Inventory. I'm looking foreward to it. Its good to hear how adventure games are doing commecially.

[DGMacphee]

Graphics really are just a measure of the technological standards for games -- better graphics don't actually contribute to the game.

Look at early adventure games such as Maniac Mansion, KQ1, etc -- They have shitty graphics yet manage to be some of the most playable games.

To a further extent, look at early Infocom games -- no graphics, just text and yet manage to be brilliantly playable.

Compare this to the Interactive Movie boom in the 90s -- Phantasmagoria, Critical Path, The Daldeus Encounter all had great graphics but shitty gameplay.

Thus, even though the technological standards inproved, the gameplaty didn't.

In reality, great graphics are used only to show off what new hardware standard can do -- they're really quite superfluous.


As for fan games: Try 'Night of the Hermit', graphically it's not brilliant (which doesn't matter, as I said in the above) but it's a great fan game and spin-off to the Monkey Island series.

[dimidimidimi]

Let's put it this way, Little Willy is young and used to the current crop of games. The fancy high res good graphics kind. Should he write off Monkey Island because the graphics are no good according to what he's used to?

What a shame.

I think you got me all wrong. I never said that good graphics mean the latest 3D technology with 3400x2900 resolution. I think Monkey Island has great graphics. Outdated but still great. And if you want my honest opinion it has better graphics than some recent commercial adventure games (i.e. The Watchmaker). It is just another style of representation imo...2D with low resolution.

I agree that "fan made games" are good but to compare them to commercial games seems wrong.

I strongly disagree. The best two adventures in the last 2 years were imo Syberia and King's Quest 2. Yes that's right, KQ2 beats the hell out of the most commercial adventures out there. And Ozzie would definitely rate high in my rankings as well.

better graphics don't actually contribute to the game.

I disagree. I understand why you say that, it is your personal opinion after all, but as a reviewer it is my duty to judge each and every last one of the game's characteristics from the story to the box that it comes in.

Just a suggestion. Maybe you could have a section in the inventory just fo amature games or something. You know the short but good ones. I don't know, you seem to have a lot to do already, so maybe that isn't a good idea.

Mods writes an article in The Inventory (started last month) which is called Talking Dead, and I have given him the freedom to write whatever he wants in it. He's more than welcome to plug fan made adventures through this article if he wants to. I had also given the www.adventuredevelopers.com site as a source for 'gossip' to our adventure gossip author. And I just realised right now that I should give the ags page as well. I'll do that right away.

I hope people don't misunderstand me. I want the fan scene to grow and prosper. If you check our mag we have 2 previews each month and one of the two previews is usually a fan made adventure. We have almost 2 interviews every month and our three biggest interviews so far has been Syberia, KQ2 and Indiana Jones FoY.

Furthermore I want through our mag to pull more people in the adventure genre in general. I've posted in several non-adventure and even non-gaming forums (science fictions forums and history forums for example, and I'm soon going to invite comics fans to read our magazine ...I'll use the comic strip as a bait ) inviting people to come and read the Inventory. And these people are much more likely to try out a fan made adventure if they see good looking screenshots. If you've ever browsed a magazine fast I'm sure you've noticed that you usually pay attention to the photos and you occasionally stop when you see something interesting.

And one request please. Give some links as well with the names of the adventures you are recommending.

[Nellie]

First of all, I'd like to say it's great to see the politeness and respect shown in this thread.  Graphics can be a pretty touchy subject, especially in this community.

[/sentiment]

Dimi, there's an example I'd like to give to show why we're concerned about your graphics policy.

Pleurghburg: Dark Ages spawned one of the biggest announcement threads ever seen in this community.  It won 5 AGS awards, including Best Game.  JA+ gave it an A grade in their review.  At Home of the Underdogs, Underdogs herself described it as: "One of the best freeware adventure games I have come across", and gave it Top Dog status.  It has received positive responses from the people who played it in all three major adventure gaming forums.  We, as a community,  consider it to be one of the games that flies the flag for quality amateur adventures.

Your graphics policy would prevent this game being reviewed in The Inventory.

And that's our concern.

[LucasFan]

I'm afraid KQ1, KQ2, QfG 4.5, Hermit and The Uncertainty Machine are the only completed full-length AGS-games with "professional graphics", dimidimidimi.

[Vel]

I completely agree with dimi. After all, the inventory covers professional games, not amateurish ones, nevermind whether they are freeware or not.

[Kweepa]

Just because something looks professional doesn't mean it is...
For example, I downloaded the demo of "Sherlock Holmes - Mystery of the Mummy" last week. Don't.
Garbage like that deserves coverage much less than, say, Zak2.
for dimi http://lucasfan.zak2project.de/

Steve

[Meowster]

Cut the guy a break ~_~ I think his point is, he doesn't want games whereby people have slapped a few lines onto a background in MS Paint. While graphics don't mean a lot to a game, I think it still shows how much effort is being put into it. Even a crap artist can make a background look decent with a certain amount of time and effort.

Pleughburg would be my choice. While the graphics aren't very good, they're stylized and neat with no glitches etc.. I think this is what he means by good graphics.

[jannar85]

Whoa.... Calm down guys!
Dim, you can check out the "game" page on the ags page if you want to look through the games listed there. Just contact the rightful owners. (There are  screenshots on most of the games listed there).

[Vel]

Dimi: I'd reccomend yathzee's new game. Also, try out conspiracy of songo, and by the sword: conspiracy demo when it is out.

[Nostradamus]

AGS Games:
Pleurghburgh
Larry Vales 2
Night of the Hermit
The Uncertainty Machine
Conspiracy of Songo
Trials of Oddyseus Kent
5 Days a Stranger

Non-AGS games:
That Night Before
Out of Order

[DGMacphee]

I think dimi is looking for fan games.

[Vel]

DG, apart from kq1&2 vga, there are no worthy fan games. Or am I wrong?

[DGMacphee]

I thought Night of the Hermit was good.

In fact, I always thought Herman was very deserving of his own game.

When placed alongside Monkey Island, it's like what Fraser was to Cheers.

[Nellie]

Fan-games is another name for amateur adventures in some circles.  As The Inventory reviewed Ozzie and the Quantum Playwright, I think Dimi will accept all sorts of amateur adventures.