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Messages - Sparky

#41
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Tue 30/10/2007 09:44:03
Hmm, before I wasn't sure about the ear distance issue. My room mate helped me place the ear, and we both thought it was in the right place at that point. But I think you're right, Tube. I've set up a couple of different ear positions now, and I'll use one of them in the next edit.
#42
Hmm, maybe you should tone down the amount he tilts his feet and the amount of sideways movement in his legs in that case. I hope that doesn't sound critical- really he looks good the way he is, and the animation is very good.
#43
After tinkering for a few minutes, I noticed a few small improvements in this release. The program opened very quickly; it launches in around 5 seconds now. Once it was open, I noticed that the tablet support seems to have been improved- it feels very responsive, and no longer switches foreground and background colors oddly when you begin a tablet stroke. Another nice improvement is the new blur tool. In the past there was a tendency for dark areas to bleed out into light areas instead of creeping toward the average value. Thankfully that seems to have been fixed, and the tool seems more responsive now as well.

On the negative side, there is still no support for grouped layers, and shared layer masks are still an impossibility. So while I prefer the GIMP's interface and cleanliness, I will unfortunately still be using Photoshop for more complex projects.

For those of you who aren't familiar with it, the GNU Image Manipulation Program (affectionately referred to as the "Gimp") is an open source program similar to Adobe Photoshop. It runs on many platforms and is completely free. Go to gimp.org for more information. I've used the GIMP for years now, and I wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who wants a legal alternative to pirating Photohop. It has nearly all the same basic capabilities in terms of layers, filters, and painting tools, and it's similar enough to Photoshop that switching from one to the other is relatively painless.
#44
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Mon 29/10/2007 08:27:24
Thanks again for all the help with the proportions. The detailing is about 1/4 done now. Currently the color is just a placeholder. I'm not really happy with the texture of the wrinkles in some places- they have a tendency to seem too gooey. If anyone has any tips or feedback I'm all ears.


Note: The next edit will probably look fairly different because some of this progress was lost to a crash. Oops. Note to self- save regularly!



This is one of the first UV maps I've made, so any advice regarding the process would be particularly useful. The biggest problems came from the mesh itself, which isn't very tidy. There are quite a few areas where 5 or 3 point vertices created issues. The unwrapping process, which should have been a breeze, didn't work very smoothly as a result. The map needed a lot of time consuming manual adjustments as a result of this.

I'm also fuzzy on a couple of general ideas. I'm unclear as to how acceptable it is to slice the model up into separate UV 'islands'. How continuous should the UV map be? I think I made some poorly placed seams around the rear legs and ear. There are some unnecessary seams in those areas that tend to create artifacts. On the other hand, there are areas where the texture is distorted because I tried to make the map too contunuous. Another mistake is that the trunk is so compressed in the UV map that the texture resolution there is too low for some many of the details I wanted to fit in.

There are visible tears in the mesh in a couple of places, like behind the foreleg. It seems this is caused by the displacement map not quite matching across a UV seam. All I can figure is that it's a good idea to avoid visible seams when possible. Does anyone know of any way to avoid this?

As always any suggestions are welcome.

As always, any suggestions are welcome.
#45
Of the three, I think #3 moves the most smoothly. I think the reason #3 looks effeminate is that the elbow bends so far backward as the arm swings back. Additionally the shoulder moves forward and backward quite a bit, which suggests to me that his torso is twisting a lot as he moves. But aside from these minor issues it's really a good sequence, I could see it working as a base animation with a few adjustments.
#46
Critics' Lounge / Re: Character art
Mon 29/10/2007 07:35:27
The lower leg adjustment looks good! He seems more balanced now, though until it was mentioned I didn't really find fault with his balance in the original picture.

I have a lot of trouble with proportions myself, and I find discussions like this helpful. I'm impressed that you pulled together something this good without a model! My humans tend to look all stiff and awkward when I try to do that.
#47
You know, I could see a walk like that working in a more stylized game. It's kind of flamboyant and nerdy in a good way.

It all depends on what you want people to notice, and what sort of atmosphere you're creating. May I ask what he's going to be used for?
#48
The desk fits in much better now. I have a bit of a grievance with the left wall, though. The top of the wall doesn't bother my eye, but the bottom is actually slanted away from the common vanishing point. It sort of feels like the floor is mysteriously getting larger instead of smaller with distance. I understand that you deliberately used multiple vanishing points and types of perspective, but I don't see that this particular instance of it contributes to the picture.

Overall I like the level of detail and colors. I think my favorite bits are the brown writing surfaces, the beige desks, and the wall portrait's face. A couple of little stylistic issues caught my eye, however. Some objects are antialiased (like the flag) while others are completely hard edged. Also a couple of objects look like they have soft shadows around them, like the clock and the coffee pots, while most of the scene has no shadowing at all. Another microscopic suggestion is that the tables along the wall could benefit from a bit of framing just beneath the tabletops.

Looks good so far, keep up the good work!
#49
Critics' Lounge / Re: Character art
Wed 24/10/2007 04:14:23
That looks pretty good so far. Are you working in Photoshop with a tablet? Foreshortening is kind of tricky, especially without a model. I tried to draw his forearm a couple of times- I don't think I really made much progress, but maybe my misguided efforts will be useful somehow...



I tried to look at my own elbow for lack of a good photo reference, but it wasn't cooperating.  :P
#50
Critics' Lounge / Re: Background for C&C
Tue 23/10/2007 07:28:37
That's a nice, consistent style. I like the colors, and I like how clean it is. I think the next place to go with the style would be perspective, if you're up for it. I know that can be really confusing at first.

If not, I think the style is functional enough as it is. I could see it working for a whole game, as long as colors, scenery, etc. are consistent.
#51
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Tue 23/10/2007 01:47:59




Here's another edit, this time with ears ;). Also new are the tail, trunk, and webs of skin attached to hind the legs. Minor edits: shape of back has been altered even more, jaw has been rounded out and softened, head has been enlarged and made more conical, back legs have been rounded out slightly.

Quote from: Erwin_Br on Mon 22/10/2007 20:17:54The back looks good from the side, although you may have exaggerated the "bowl" on his back a little. Or, rather, the bump on his back is a bit too high. (The second one, approx. above his hind legs)
You and the venerable Mr. Buckéthead both raised a good point here. Does it look any better now? The back has been straightened and smoothed, though it remains slightly exaggerated. Maybe it should be toned down even more. The thing is, some of the reference shots Google turned up seem to show more pronounced curves and bumps along the back. Others (like the one you posted) are very smooth and rounded. Does it look odd the way it is?

Thanks a lot for the help with the proportions. It seems the basic mesh is pretty much done, and it's ready for painting in details. If anyone has any further suggestions or criticism for the mesh itself, don't hesitate to mention it. Unless a change requires major surgery I think it should be possible to work it in even after texturing starts; I'm not really familiar with this program yet.
#52
Critics' Lounge / Re: C&C this background
Mon 22/10/2007 05:22:48
Wow, that's quite an improvement. The colors are pretty good, and the shading across the stone, tree, and water really helps.

If you want to suggestions on how to draw better stones or trees, here's my two cents. Focusing on texture probably won't yield results quickly at this point. I think the next step is working on your shapes and lighting a bit. Just do a few extremely loose, quick sketches from real life. Don't worry about getting everything looking perfect. The point is to start thinking about things in a deeper way- as in, "Where is the light coming from?" or "What sort of style does the stone or tree have?"
#53
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Mon 22/10/2007 05:05:03


Here's a slightly updated version- the mouth has been modeled, legs and feet have been added to, and the overall shape of the torso, especially the shoulder area, has been altered. The front legs somehow look odd to me, kind of blobby and bland. I'm not sure exactly what they need. Actually now that I look at the back legs I'm seeing problems there too. Maybe the thighs need more mass.

KhrisMUC and Erwin_br, since both of you were thinking about the mouth earlier, if either of you has any suggestions I'd be happy to hear them. Personally I think the jawbone might be too square and flat; maybe it should be rounded and bulked up a bit? What about the shape of the lips?

Sorry Bluesman Ben, I still haven't done the ears. ;)
#54
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Sun 21/10/2007 23:51:59
Erwin_Br and KhrisMUC- good eye. That's actually not the final mouth, it's just an innocent ring of edges that will become the mouth. I'll post a more recent version later today.
#55
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Sat 20/10/2007 19:00:12
Thanks for the link- I've never been very involved in the cg scene, so there are a lot of resources I don't know about yet. When I get home from school I'll have another go at improving the proportions.
Quote from: Mr. Buckéthead on Sat 20/10/2007 18:04:54anyway, what program are you using? The interface looks familiar but I can't come up with the name.  :)
Modo. This is sort of a "let's try out Modo" project, so I guess I'll post my thoughts so far. I like the tools and interface a lot. It has a fairly clean, intuitive feel for a 3d application. I like the way you can use some tools without a selection, and the integrated displacement and paint tools are a neat bonus. Never having used 3dStudioMax or Maya, I'm afraid I can't compare it to either, however.
#56
Hey, congratulations on keeping up your momentum through exams! The screens and character look nice and old school, and are consistently styled.

Regarding length, I'd advise making it short for the sake of actually finishing. A complete short game is better than a thousand incomplete epics.
#57
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Sat 20/10/2007 17:54:14
Mr. BucketHead- Thanks for the feedback. I chose to work freehand, looking at images in another window instead of 'tracing' over a background image in the viewports. So any errors in proportion are my own, and I'd love to improve upon them in any way I can. There's also been more than a little guesswork because some areas were hard to find good shots of (like the neck area, which tends to be hidden behind the ears). I'd value any specifics you have to offer about what makes the proportions seem off.

Quote from: Mr. Buckéthead on Sat 20/10/2007 08:45:42...reference image... Good ones of elephants might be tricky to find but you could always sketch one or ask me to have a search  ;)
Could you, err, go take a photograph your pet elephant from the side? It's been hard to find a good profile. ;)
Quote from: Mr. Buckéthead on Sat 20/10/2007 08:45:42Also you shouldn't work in high poly but stick to low detail and once in a while check how the process is going in high poly.
This was modeled about 50/50 in subdivision and low poly views. I can see where you're coming from- there were many times I adjusted the mesh with subdivision on and then switched back to the low poly mesh only to find everything was horribly jumbled. Thanks.

Quote from: Bluesman Ben on Sat 20/10/2007 08:48:31
Nice mesh, however... elephants have ears.
Drat! I knew there was something missing! But seriously, ears are coming right after the legs and feet. So the queue looks like this:
  • Finish mouth
  • Detail legs and feet, adjust body proportions
  • Make ears for Ben :D
  • Touch up final mesh
  • Begin wrinkles, materials, etc.
#58
Critics' Lounge / Re: Elephant
Sat 20/10/2007 04:01:38
Yeah, the feet and legs do look rather blobby, don't they? I'll probably detail them right after I finish the mouth up.
#59
Critics' Lounge / Elephant
Sat 20/10/2007 02:16:20


This has been in progress for a couple of days, and is a long way from complete. I've never been very proficient with any 3d package, so I find myself working very very slowly and having issues with topology ("mesh flow"). I'm looking for help in two areas:


  • If anyone knows the ins and outs of modeling, any tips on keeping a nice clean mesh would be welcome. Workflow advice would also be extremely helpful. For reference here is a summary of the several steps the project's been through so far.


    The first stage was a blocky sketch.


    Once the basic geometry was there extra detail was added by slicing in loops. A couple of adjustments to flow were made at this stage (sides of torso, tops of legs). It was basically all old-school subdivision modeling at first.


    The eye and much of the head are an exception- they were made by using edge extend with lots of messy hand-done adjustments. The flow of the eye area is quite a mess, and for the safety of humankind the techniques used should be locked in a radiation-proof underground vault somewhere under the Pacific.

    Once it came time to attach the eye to the rest of the mesh, the extra edges flowing out of the eye were kind of overwhelming. How do people deal with varying mesh detail like this? I ended up running some of the loops around the front and top of the head, and others were run into the mouth (which still hasn't been modeled). A similar set of problems came when ataching the head to the shoulders- which is why there's a nasty ring of n-gons running down the neck.

  • If anyone has more general comments (proportions, style, etc.) please feel free to offer any suggestions that come to mind.
#60
Critics' Lounge / Re: Protagonist
Fri 19/10/2007 11:07:12
Overall he seems pretty well animated and modeled. The movement is very smooth- perhaps too smooth to transition well to a standing frame the way a default AGS character does. He'll look marvelous walking, then pop abruptly into his standing frame.

Not knowing what style you're going for here, this may be off base. I'd recommend a bit more large scale shading or coloring work. For instance you could light him from above or paint in the desired brightness. Right now, as Mr. Colossal mentioned, he appears to be either totally flat and unlit or luminous.

Another note is that the overall contrast seems a bit off- the dark tones tend towards black a little too strongly, and the middle and top of the spectrum aren't very well represented. If you were to light him or paint in some lighting it would make him much more three dimensional looking.

He looks neat, can we see what sort of environment he is intended for?
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