Messages

I'm hoping to see it opening night, or Sunday, but I probably won't end up seeing it until later.

Well, I think we've had a lot of religious threads lately, and so why don't we take a secular break from all that and sit down to talk about Spider-Man 3. I thought I'd start this thread because we usually have threads for all these big, blockbuster hits (Like Pirates 3, and Star Wars Episode III, etc). 

So... pretty much the same stuff as in the other movie threads- speculation about the movie, comments on the other movies in the series, that kind of stuff. Please try to stay out of the religious talk altogether (unless it's used to prove a point in some way).

Begin!

If it helps, there was a gothic, dark adventure/shooter/horror game a while ago called American McGee's Alice (or something like that). You might want to play that game.

SD, please stop. Yufster, please also stop. At least for a moment.

Take out the 'at least for a moment' part, and I'll be satisfied. Why don't we just stop- period.

Ah, a reply.

You refuse to answer my questions because you know you're wrong. Full stop.

You know it's not right to murder a woman for being raped.

You know it's not right to kill babies and children for no reason.

So you're going to pretend you just want to stop arguing.

Well done.

I'm not making a fool of myself, Steel Drummer. I've arguing my points well, quoting scripture in my defence.

you're making a fool of yourself by claiming that it's okay to force a woman to marry her rapist.

You haven't said countless times that "you have your view, I have mine".

You have shown a lack of knowledge of the Bible and of your own faith, even in doing things such as condemning polygamy in one thread and then (presumably since you don't disagree with god) condoning it in the next. And saying that a woman should be stoned for being a rape victim! Disgusting. A truly good christian would never, ever condone such a thing.

You have made a fool of yourself. Probably even in the eyes of other Christians... if I was a christian I would be embarrassed at your weak and uneducated attempts to defend the bible.

Since you blatently refuse to answer my last few questions, I'll assume you've given up and are hopefully questioning your faith in a sick and perverted god.

Additionally, I haven't been "told" to stop. If you look, you'll see that the only people who have advised me to stop, are advising me because it's pointless arguing with you - it's like arguing with a 14 year old boy. I simply cannot believe that you're the father of a child.

Furthermore, I'm amazed that you're "hanging out" with a forum full of such non-believers. Surely the Bible shows that you should not associate yourself with non-believers? In fact, doesn't god himself say that if there are one or two non-believers in a villager, that village should be burned, the women children and men killed, and the livestock too? Why would you choose to associate yourself with so many non-believers when you YOURSELF know the risks? And how much God hates it?

The fact that you refuse to see that 99% of people in this thread are incredulous at YOUR perverse behaviour, is amazing. That you think 99% of people don't want you to shut up, shows the side of you that allows you to be blinded by organised religion. The side of you that can completely shut out the truth and reality, even when it is so blindingly obvious. The part of you that can tell yourself it is okay to stone a rape victim to death.

You know if your child ever misbehaves or becomes drunk, you are required by god to stone him to death? Deuteronomy 21:18

I'll be holding you to that.

You assume too much. I don't want to argue any more, not because I have nothing to say, but because your arguments are made mainly by Bible verses taken out of context, or blatant statements that you never even thought about before posting. I know you may say that I make blatant statements as well, but I never have taken anything out of context, and I haven't made numerous personal attacks, like you guys have. The argument's over, so why don't you act like the adults you are, and forget about it, rather than unleashing more pointless insults upon me.

Yufster. You're making a fool of yourself. You've been told to stop, so why don't you? I've said countless times that I have my views, and you have yours, so why don't we end this silly argument, as it's going nowhere.

I don't feel like answering any more of your questions. It's apparent you don't fully understand the Bible, and I'm okay with that. Why don't we get back on the topic (This is the third time I've said this)?

So you still haven't explained why raped women should be stoned to death?

If you're referring to the verse I'm thinking you are... it says that the woman should be stoned for not crying out while she was being raped. 

I'm sick of debating with a bunch of Bible hating freaks, and I think I'll stay away from any more religious threads.

You ruin a painting and that is all you have done. You rape a woman, kill her children in front of her and then kill her? That's awful. And bear in mind that the women of those days mostly just obeying men... did they deserve this fate?

There's only one Being who can say what anyone deserves. So they did. If you continue reading Jeremiah, you will find how God wept for the people He destroyed.

48:28 Leave your towns, you inhabitants of Moab. Go and live in the cliffs. Be like a dove that makes its nest high on the sides of a ravine.

48:29 I have heard how proud the people of Moab are, I know how haughty they are. I have heard how arrogant, proud, and haughty they are, what a high opinion they have of themselves.

48:30 I, the Lord, affirm that I know how arrogant they are. But their pride is ill-founded. Their boastings will prove to be false.

48:31. So I will weep with sorrow for Moab. I will cry out in sadness for all of Moab. I will moan for the people of Kir Heres.

48:36 So my heart moans for Moab like a flute playing a funeral song. Yes, like a flute playing a funeral song, my heart moans for the people of Kir Heres. For the wealth they have gained will perish.

48:47 "Yet in days to come I will reverse Moab's ill fortune.” says the Lord. The judgment against Moab ends here.

At a point, a person loses their humanity to the sin (by their own choice) and there is nothing redeemable left.

God created free will. It'd be arrogant to assume that we are somehow entitled to it.

I have given examples where god has ordered the murder of innocent people.

According to Scripture, everyone is born into sin. No human is innocent, and on our own merits, we all deserve death.

I agree wholeheartedly with that entire post. I'm not sure what your spiritual alignment is, but it's refreshing to hear someone talk about God like this.   

oh...

   Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword.  Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.  Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes.  For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off.  The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows.  They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children.  (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

That's prophecy, for heaven's sake!

Vict0r, I'm not 14. I have a son who likes using these forums that sometimes posts. He made that 2010: World of Chaos game. He's 14 now, but was 13 when making that game. Just clearing that up for you.

[still]

Any people that God told His armies to put to death were evil civilizations. 

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. 

The women were to be killed because they were causing people to rebel against God. Now maybe the same can be said of you, Meowster, for trying to turn me from God.

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

    However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy themâ€"the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusitesâ€"as the LORD your God has commanded you.  Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

You left out a crucial part of that passage that brings 10-14 into context with 16-18. 

Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

So... what's your point?

You've basically given passages (taken out of context, once again) where people are told to destroy others (because the nations they were killed were evil).

Oh, I see you edited your post.

Then I will just add this:

To say that jesus said "You must hate your family" but meant "You must leave behind worldly possessions" is the equivelent of saying,

When jesus said that men must not lie with other men or they will be killed, what he really meant is, "Homosexuality is absolutely great."

Just because it doesn't suit you, doesn't mean you can twist the words of the Bible around to suit yourself. You say that that website takes things out of context: so are you. In fact, when you think about it, you're also twisting jesus' words in a sinful way... to suit yourself.

God says you must hate your family. You don't want to hate your family or believe that Jesus hated his. So you ignore it and pretend that's not what he meant.

Hahahaha.

You evil, evil, sinful boy.

Anyway, was my previous post enough evidence for you that god condones these things? I can find plenty more. Plenty. 

So because Jesus didn't want to worship His mother, it means He hates her? Those passages that they claimed 'Jesus hates His parents!', were taken completely out of context, and if you're stupid enough to still not see that, after I explained each one- you're stupid.

Any people that God told His armies to put to death were evil civilizations. 

    Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp.  But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle.  "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.  Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man.  Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves. 

The women were to be killed because they were causing people to rebel against God. Now maybe the same can be said of you, Meowster, for trying to turn me from God.

When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies. This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.

    However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy themâ€"the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusitesâ€"as the LORD your God has commanded you.  Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.

You left out a crucial part of that passage that brings 10-14 into context with 16-18. 

Laws of Rape   (Deuteronomy 22:28-29 NLT)
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father.  Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

So... what's your point? There's nothing wrong in forcing a rapist to marry his victim. Then he won't go and do it again.

The camera, the legs on the very side of the stage, and lots of other stuff. Without background animation, it would look static and lifeless.

It's very nice, but don't think it's very 'game friendly', as the image would be very hard to animate.

[heavily]

As I said before, yodaman... I dare you to read your bible and compare it to the stories that have been posted up so far. Read the stories where God tells people to rape women and to fuck your dead brother's wife. They give the location of each piece of the bible they quote so it shouldn't take
long to find them.

I never saw any references except saying it was from the Old Testament. Do you know how long the Old Testament is? I'm not going to spend hours looking through it so I can find some stuff you guys made up. 

"If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives."  (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)

I don't want SD to be under the impression his god, as he believes in from the OT and the NT, is a good, kind, forgiving and loving and fair god. If he wants to believe in him as told by those books, then he is basically a devil worshipper. God is a jealous, angry, wrathful, threatening, cruel being, if anything.

God says that people shouldn't kill other people, so if homosexuals are supposed to be killed, I'll leave that to God, thank you very much. 

And you know what? God never mentions lesbians. He only says men; so when he says 'put to death', he's obviously talking about getting STDs from two men having anal sex. I know you may be saying "But the first documented case of AIDs was in the 80s", however it was only discovered then because homosexuality just started to become prevalent then. I imagine if two men had anal sex back in Bible times, they'd likely have gotten some kind of disease too. 

But I find it interesting because he's already stated that he thinks things like Polygamy are perverted, and I assume he finds it perverted to order the rape of hundreds of women or the murder of 42 children... so I'll be very interested to see how he reacts to seeing how these perverted things are actually all in the bible, right there.

I'll be interested to see if he refuses to look them up in the bible for fear that he'll see the real god that he worships, or if he changes his mind and thinks it's okay to do those things after all, or if he perhaps takes a step back and thinks about how "good" his god really is.

I'm not afraid to see them, for fear about how 'good' God is. I actually want to see them, because I'm curious to see how much you've taken scripture out of context. Why don't you post some references, as I haven't seen any (and the homosexual reference didn't count; I mean references to rape and polygamy, abortion, etc).

Steel Drummer, would you PLEASE look up the bible passages mentioned here:
http://mwillett.org/atheism/family.htm
Then tell us either that you were talking b.s. and are really wrong or that the "bible" you've read was completely rewritten by the religious cult you belong to.

I went to the site, and already; the first reference had been taken scripture out of context. Example: It says that "In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children" (Genesis 3:16); is saying that bearing children is a punishment. It's not. At first, it wouldn't have been. But when Adam and Eve disobeyed God, He told them a bunch of stuff, and: "In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children." 

• Most of us would say that incest is against the interests of the family. Yet Lot, whom the Bible considers to be a very good man, had sex with his two daughters (Genesis 19:33-36); and there was no punishment for either Lot or the daughters. Indeed, it might well be argued that Lot must have had divine help in this, since he was able to perform sexually despite being both very old and very drunk! In defense of the girls, it must be noted that they had no mother to guide them, because some time earlier God got peeved and killed her (Genesis 19:26), and apparently also the two men who were engaged to marry the girls (Genesis 19:14).

But later on, Lot was killed by God.

• In order to gain favor with a king, Abraham said that his wife was his sister, and offered her to the king for sex. This happened twice (Genesis 12:11 and Genesis 20:2). Isaac did a similar thing (Genesis 26:6-10). And Lot (Genesis 19:8) once offered his virgin daughters to be used by a mob at Sodom. (St. Peter called Lot a "righteous man", 2 Peter 2:8)

1. Lot was righteous in a sense- he lived in a terribly sinful city, and he was the only remotely righteous man there, I think that's was Peter meant.

2. Everybody sins and makes mistakes, like Abraham. God will still love them. Just because Abraham did something immoral to gain the king's favor, doesn't mean that God will give up His plans for Abraham. After all, God told Abraham that he would be the father of many nations, so you think that God would just kill him off?

• The last of the plagues brought upon the Egyptians was the death of all their first-born children, because The Lord hardened the heart of Pharoah (Exodus 9:12, 10:1, 10:20, 10:27, 11:10). Couldn't he have SOFTENED Pharoah's heart and spared all those innocent children? Maybe Egyptian families don't matter.

God did that to show Pharaoh His power, and to (hopefully) change Pharaoh's heart.

• Jesus ridiculed his own mother in public: Woman, what have I to do with thee? (John 2:4) This, of course, was a direct violation of the commandment about honoring one's parents, which Jesus said he agreed with (Matt. 15:4 and several other places). On another occasion he refused to see his mother and brothers, answering their request with a wisecrack (Matt. 12:46-50). And when someone praised Mary, Jesus disagreed (Luke 11:27-8).

1. Jesus 'ridiculing' his mother: He said this because He didn't feel like turning the water into wine. He said 'My hour has not yet come', meaning "the time hasn't come for Me to reveal myself to everyone."

2. He doesn't answer with a 'wise crack' He's trying to teach a lesson by saying "Whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is my brother, sister, and mother." Does that sound like a wisecrack to you??

3.

And when someone praised Mary, Jesus disagreed

They were assuming a stance of worship upon Mary. They weren't simply 'complimenting' Mary. This verse actually is a major blow on the Catholic church, as someone says "Blessed is the womb that bore you", and Jesus says "No. Blessed rather are those who hear My Father's word and obey Him."

• Jesus promised his followers great rewards if they would desert their wives and children (Matt. 19:29).

Jesus is telling them to forsake the 'earthly' sort of things.

• Jesus says very clearly that anyone who wants to be his disciple must hate his father, mother, wife, children, brothers, and sisters (Luke 14:26).

Again, Jesus is saying to give up the earthly things to serve Him. My pastor had a sermon on this just last week. 

• And then there is: For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household (Matt. 10:35-36).

Haha! This is taken way out of context. 

Jesus is saying that there will be division because of Him. You've seen it on these forums; there is a lot of disagreeing and division because of Jesus. 

I've already disproved a lot of those verses (which, by the way, were heavily taken out of context). I might post a few more later today, but I think that's probably enough.

Yurina's birthday is tomorrow (or right now for some people). Happy birthday! 

[off-topic]
Speaking of Yurina, I haven't seen her posting very much..
[/off-topic]

The Bible, even the Old Testament doesn't condone murder, I'm absolutely sure of it. The Ten Commandments: Thou shalt not kill.

I don't know, but maybe, just maybe, that passage is telling us not to kill people? :

Why do you do this? If you have no answer, why not be silent? They are making a very clear point by showing you passages in the bible you have in your own home, which condone murder and rape by the Old Testament god. What do you say to this? You say 'I didn't see any such passages in the Bible which I read!' What sort of argument is this?! The passages are right there! You're really infuriating. I know you're a child. I know you're regurgitating from what other people told you and you believed then because you have no critical faculties at this age. But you're TROLLING. You're disregarding, cheapening arguments and you don't have anything of worth to say for yourself but you keep replying.

They didn't give passages from the Bible. I've read through the Bible many times, and I see none such things they speak of. I kindly asked if they would show me what they're talking about. You have nothing to say, because you keep repeating yourself in every post. I'm not going to listen to you, because to me, you're just some annoying online personality who may not even be real (that's probably what you think of me, too). 

I am formally asking the moderators of this board to enforce the age limit of the boards.

Why? You don't know how old I am.

And you're lying, but it doesn't matter.

You're just saying that because you can't come up with an excuse for your 'Bible supports abortion and rape', crap.

I think it's Shane Stevens.

I find it weird how you use everyone else's real names except ProgZmax.

Forum-namist!

SD has believed in what he's been TOLD about god, but he's only been taught very select things about him. If he sits down to read the bible one day like A GOOD CHRISTIAN SHOULD, I'm sure he'll be horrified at what he sees. Perhaps when he sees god ordering babies to be murdered, women to be raped, children to be savaged... when he sees jesus encouraging polygamy... maybe then he'll reconsider how accurate the things god thinks about gay people are. Maybe he'll take a step back and think about what it is that he's REALLY believing in.

I've read the entire Bible, and nowhere have I read it condoning abortion, rape, or anything like that. You are making bold assumptions.