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Okay, if you guys are going THIS personal about this thread then I want you to know that you shouldn't count me in.
The reason we know each other is the love for adventure games, coding, art, etc... Science, Religion and whatever else is something we must stay cool about it, and realize that person A (that I love for his games) may not have the same opinion regarding other subjects.
So, personal issues aside, let me continue:

Akatosh, when you claim that sceptics reason to be is to attack the beliefs of others then in no way I will ever give you any credit. If you think about it, you have just made anti-sceptics job easier.
If that is not the case then please rephrase yourself and I will retract myself if needed. I don't want to start a personal war with you or anybody.
My friend, this days you don't have someone forcing you to believe in anything, you are free. Meaning your view of the world is like the old guys from the Muppet's show.

On a final note, Misj and KhrisMUC are both intelligent and we should let them deal with it without our help. 

Khris, you're absolutely right. The "Do you fear God" question was and still is the main tool used by organized religions when dealing with undeveloped societies. The thing is, today and in the modern world we (meaning us at the forums) live, information is at the end of our fingertips and if I'm interested I can just follow some anti-Christ movement and have all the history about it, achievements, failures, main news on the media, and so on, within 10 seconds. Meaning people were never this free to choose what to believe. And that, in my opinion is a good thing.
I don't agree when you say Christians have abandoned their original ideas, they still are the force towards charity.
As for women rights, it's clear that they have evened the balance this days, with a lot of effort sometimes against prejudice and manly habits than the Church.
On a personal level, do I fear God?
I fear not have lived knowing Him. Not because I plan on going to heaven but because I'd feel unfulfilled without Him.

   

Well Akatosh, that belief hasn't collapse yet and 2 millennium have passed since Jesus walked among us. The Church has nothing but old stories and uncool things to defend but still it hasn't collapsed. Among the thousand of daily crimes committed only in the USA the ones that show in the papers are the ones involving priests or characters like O.J.Simpson but still the belief in God hasn't collapsed. Yet, you claim it has and are ready to label and call believers persons without logic.
You rather pay a fee to your government (can you not pay?) and trust them with your money because all politicians are honest and care for the needy, right?
You will never trust your money to your local priest because he doesn't make sense to you. Besides he'll probably just spend it on Armani clothes, right?
As a side note, just google for Christian Universities around the globe and check what they are doing concerning cancer treatment.
       

Sorry to hit on the same piano key here but you did say that sceptics attack people beliefs and I don't know how rational that can be or its value to humanity.
Critical thinking is perfect if the point is to achieve a goal, not to deny every other ideas.

The same old garbage you mention are people that help others without monetary reward in countries and conditions that I hope you'll never have to face. Why don't you mention that? Why don't you talk about the thousands of free thinking Christians that today, not in the middle-ages or in any given period of time you may mention give away part of their salaries to families in Africa? Do you have any idea of what your local church contributes to your town/city? Can't you please go there and listen to them for 10 minutes and ask what is their current concern and what plans they have?
If you want numbers I can give out some dozens of Christian orphanages that we have in Portugal. Do you know how much this people earn?
Please respect yourself by respecting others.

Akatosh, is there any other sceptics purpose than attacking the beliefs of people? I mean, you can discuss and debate religion and organized religions but at least they have something to say. Instead the existence of sceptics is just absurd, it's a non-existence.
Also, I think it's funny that you keep going back to Middle-Age to support your hate on religion, because in 1000 years from now people may consider our time to be "middle-age" as well.
Why do you sound like you are being called out by the inquisition in the middle of the night? Were you somehow injured by priests in your lifetime?

Khris, religion has been established long ago as one of the pillars of humanity in what we all consider decent laws towards human rights. That is a fact, no point denying it. So were the thinkers of history with equal amount of responsibility I accept that, meaning Man can, by its intelligence achieve a greater state of mind that makes him responsible and fair towards other men. The difference here is that a single man does little for the sake of mankind, without backup (military, money, land, Jesus only had his Father btw) to drive people together to fight for what we consider right, he will often be considered a nut case.
And I'm not so sure Nacho (sorry about writing your name wrong pal) did not meant attack literally considering his view on this topics. Do you not think this thread is a deliberate attack/revenge on religious people? Many do sound like it. Thank God, some like yourself are willing to expose your thoughts without trying to make it ridiculous.
 
   

Why would sceptics attack other people?
To defend their non-believing position forcing others to be non-believers?
Even you, Natcho, you don't believe, fair enough, why do you want me not to believe?

Khris,
parents will always do what they think it's best for them (at least they should), and that can be to decide that their children will have no religious upbringing whatsoever. To me, accepting God as One that can give balance and major guidance to rising children is acceptable when moderate and responsibly done. No harm was ever done that way.

About your sister and her son I can only say that the same degree that you think it was pointless to baptise him returns the same value to her when you disagree.
Anyway, I've mentioned this before, the percentage of kids that had a religious upbringing renouncing it is bigger than ever this days. Religion was never so attacked than now due to cultural changes in our world.

I am aware of that and you should be aware that every religion has organized segments that do not renounce fundamentalist believes.
Speaking about the Catholic Church it is important that you realize that its pace on things like birth control has to be very slow due to millions of follower that don't have the same modern view of our world. Breaking generation habits and cultural day-to-day life is something that must be taken with great responsibility.
My country for example is ageing and is very catholic as you know. I can't just try to change them at this point of their life. It's not fair or just. Time must pass, and such issues should not be rushed. 

Religion to be debated should be on a philosophical level, I believe.
I can't see what science has to do with anything and why it would make someone a believer or not.

Dear Natcho,
you were brave deciding to end a situation that wasn't true in its essence.
Clearly both of you have good friends to give you support and time will heal your hearts.
All the best

Hi guys, I've been away piled in work for the past weeks, so sorry if I didn't follow this thread for a while.

About sensing God:
     It's a personal experience and one that most non-believers would put in the realms of paranormal events.
     All I can say is that It happened to me more than once and it had nothing to do with Science-Fiction/Horror movies, it was just a subtle and rewarding breeze of awe that made me look around and try to decode it with my knowledge and physical senses. Moments later all that was left was the same world that I live. Only I had much more to think about.

Reading the past pages of this thread I found very connotations with philosophy and I do think that it is the best approach to this subject rather than science. Why? Because you will go around in circles and clearly stop when reaching quantum levels where nobody here (me included) has the proper knowledge to go deeper into it. 

I'm sure he ordered it in the name of God if he had to, but Truman wasn't what I'd call a true Catholic, even if I said that the US presidents aren't or were not atheists.
Truman was part of the darkest part of history of the US.

Because they had the means to do it.

Of course scientists are directly responsible for the Atomic Bomb. Unless they had guns pointed to their heads they were the ones that made it possible. It is common knowledge that politicians can't count.
And to say that the men who decided to use it were religious people is a bit vague isn't it?
The US are by official definition a religious country, it's in their constitution and no American president ever claimed to be an atheist.

Why don't you ask why are so many sick people. Period?
About numbers, 80% of the Finish population is Lutheran and being a very organized, literate country where average life is stable, it's odd to find that the other 20% are part of the highest number of suicides per year.
The numbers are out there, but still here are some official numbers:
Suicides per 100,000 people
Lithuania        38.6    2005
Belarus        35.1    2003
Russia        32.2    2005
Slovenia        26.3    2006
Hungary        26.0    2005
Kazakhstan     25.9    2005
Latvia        24.5    2005
Japan See: Su    23.7    2006
Guyana        22.9    2005
Ukraine        22.6    2005
South Korea     21.9    2006
Sri Lanka[2]   21.6    1996
Belgium        21.1    1997
Estonia        20.3    2005
Finland        20.1    2005   --- Here's Finland
Croatia    30.5    9.7    19.7    2005
Serbia and Montenegro    19.5    2006
Moldova        17.8    2006
France        17.6    2005
Switzerland     17.6    2005
Hong Kong     17.4    2005
Poland        15.8    2005
Austria        15.6    2006
Czech Republic   15.3    2005
Uruguay        15.1    2001
People's Republic of China    13.9    1999
Denmark            13.7    2001
Sweden            13.3    2002
Seychelles[3]   13.2    1998
New Zealand[4]13.2    2008
Bulgaria        13.0    2004
Germany        13.0    2004
Trinidad and Tobago    Slovakia    Romania    Cuba    Suriname    Bosnia and Herzegovina...    
Norway    ...
Canada    ...
Iceland    ...
Portugal    ...
United States    17.7    4.5    11.1    2005

What do numbers prove? Texas has more than 80% of religious people? Texas is more violent than Finland? The quality of life in Texas is worse?
Well, non-religious people kill themselves in Finland.
And this is official, Finish are registered on their chosen religion. 

I guess that for a country as big as the USA, to provide a efficient health care plan could mean that other areas like the military forces could suffer enormously in terms of state funds. So in the meantime I don't think that big changes will occur. At least until US keep a war(s) going

Khris, when you say after the war then it means after releasing the atomic bomb right? Well, it's clearly a defensive stance, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki everything changed politically and military super nations started thinking that they could be next. The reason Japan hasn't fight back by now it's purely commercial, and the fact that their culture is something else.
You are trying to imply that the Bomb was constructed by religious motifs or even ordered by the Baptist Church and that is just the silliest thing I've heard since the last episode of "Family Guy".
Child molesting priests do bring shame to the Church, Khris. But it's not like if you repeat it several times that you're going to change anything.
Unless you think that a priest molester is worse than a doctor?
If a priest should have higher moral standards because he follows God then all who don't follow God are less responsible for their villainies? 

I am proud to say that the waiting lists average time for surgeries has dropped to 3 months in Portugal. It came on today's newspapers.

Khris, I don't blame scientist for war but do blame scientists that made it possible to construct such things like the atomic bomb. And surely you can't say that Baptists built the bomb or even ordered its construction.
And I don't declare scientist evil as much as you declare God evil.
The difference here is that scientists do exist but you claim that God doesn't. So, how can something that doesn't exist be evil?

Vince, then we can accept that politicians are the new Crusaders of the modern world?

Nacho, the Deluge didn't exist, right?

To declare that God did then you do declare God is.

Akatosh, the Wrigth brothers didn't build F-16 equipped with missiles did they?
If science is a tool then God is what make scientists stop and think "Shall I continue with this dangerous to human life experiments?"
Killing infidels? What do you know about it? Who are the infidels? The people in Afghanistan? Who's killing who?

Scientists are behind nuclear weapons. Where is their born-with notion of right and wrong?