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We can't do the first week, but the third is fine.  Weekend to weekend is of course always preferable for a Mittens, so does 15-22 September work for everyone?

Got the access, thanks.  I'll try to work out how to handle the importing soon.

I think we'll need to use REST/SOAP to do this.  Does that need to be turn on, or access granted, or is it accessible by default?

Sure, I'll make it clear they were imported from PT.

Either way, Project Tools has to go, very soon.  I'm happy to try to import the outstanding issues, if someone can give me appropriate access levels on the repo.  GH username is berianwilliams.

Definitely add me, I'll come almost certainly since I live a little outside of Boston. Really look forward to it!
Makes no difference to me, but yeah September is usually a decent bet in terms of weather, and it's also a bit cheaper for flights from Europe.
I might be able to bring a car or two, if people want to do anything off the T.

What about the wife?  Would you be staying, or just commuting from home?

It has been suggested quite a few times that we might have Mittens a bit later. Tamara and I have a very busy summer planned, so that would actually be preferable to us. What do people think about the second weekend of September, for instance? Flights also seem to be cheaper than the summer peak for the majority of us who live in the northern hemisphere (sorry, Ryan!).

Yeah, unfortunately I don't think kids at Mittens would really work...  I think the only way it could work is if the parents stayed somewhere else (hotel / own rental), and met up during the day with the main group.  I really can't see a young child fitting in with all the noise, drinking and late nights that are known to happen at Mittens!

So it's early in the new year, which means it's Mittens planning time!

Given our usual 'every third year in America' tradition, 2018 is another America year.  For some reason Boston has jumped out at me as being a good idea, and when I mentioned it on the Discord chat channel, people seemed in favour.  There should be plenty of interesting things to see and do, and the whole historical bent seems nice.  It looks possible to rent places of various enough sizes and prices to house however many people attend.

So, who's interested?

Interested Parties
arj0n's +1
Dave Gilbert
Layabout's +1
noavana [maybe]
Privateer Puddin'
tzachs [maybe]
= 15 [17]

Site & Forum Reports / Re: Bug reports
« on: 01 Jan 2018, 21:34 »
The "All games list" says that there are 23 pages of results, but after page 20 the list is blank. I assume that there actually are somewhere between 2200 and 2300 games in the db, and that the list just can't return more than 2000.

Pagination (and much else...) is totally messed up atm.  I've rewritten this all in a refactored version of the site, which I'm 80% done with.  Should be released soonish.

I've set subspark's avatar to blank, so this hopefully should go away.

JIRA server looks very different from Cloud.  But how your server instance is administered does make a big difference too.  Also JIRA is more then ten years old, and can be used for free forever if you don't renew your 'maintenence licence' (upgrade eligibility), so it could also be your work has an old version!

That was a configuration issue.  I have only spent half an hour looking at this yet; I wanted to gauge potential interest before wasting too much time on it.  Bitbucket Cloud has its own built in issue tracking feature, which is what you were seeing on  I have now turned that off, with the assumption issues would be logged in JIRA.  JIRA is supposed to be the driving force here, so you can do some limited Bitbucket stuff (creating branches and viewing related commits), but issues should be created and viewed in JIRA rather than in Bitbucket.  Bitbucket commits are then tagged with one or more JIRA issue IDs, which links them.  It might not be 100% intuitive, but it works perfectly once you get used to it!

I wonder how many of those forkers (tee hee) have actually committed anything though?  And how many of them just stumbled across the source without having come via the website and forums.  There's nothing stopping someone from creating a fork or branch in Bitbucket rather than GitHub, if we set up the access right.

Oh, apparently CI is built in to Bitbucket cloud, so no Bamboo or Jenkins setup required:

Okay, fair enough.  Bitbucket would integrate with a Bamboo or Jenkins instance (Bamboo being free, even if the hosting would need to be arranged somewhere) if that's what we need.

I don't think we would lose any functionality overall.  With a bit of effort (which I'm willing to do), we could clone the current setup almost 1:1.  I'm just wondering whether having a more complete toolset might actually help with some of the problems AGS development faces.

Regardless of anything else, a replacement for Project Tools needs to be found soon, since as I say it's at the end of its life.

I'm curious what the JIRA setup looks like at your work.  I was the one who set it up where I work, and I find it very intuitive and easy to use... (yeah, I would say that...).  Did you look at the Cloud instance I linked though?  It's very streamlined and clean compared to the full server version.

What about if you think about Bitbucket for our actual needs though?  I can't imagine we actually need CI, for instance.  I also wonder just how much this organic stream of new developers you mention has actually ever happened, or is that just a theoretical?  I thought all the engine/editor contributors so far got involved through the community, rather than just stumbling across the code?

Do people use the AGS GitHub for anything except source control?  If it can management stuff that's good, but is it used at all?  Having those tools front and center on the site and forums might help encourage their use (whether it's GitHub or Atlassian...).

The user side is pretty straightforward.  If you know about Scrum or Kanban boards you basically have the gist already.

Public access is doable.  Or at least 'if you have an Atlassian account, you're in' level of public.  I'm not sure why extensive search is really necessary though.  JIRA is quite visual, so you don't really need to search too hard to find stuff.  Especially not with the small scale we'd probably have...

*Everything* Atlassian related is free if you have an open source project, including third party plugins.  The only actual requirement is it be publically accessible.  As such, we could definitely replace GitHub with Bitbucket.

So it turns out that open source projects like ours are eligible for completely free, unlimited access to all Atlassian applications, which includes JIRA, Bitbucket, Confluence, etc. etc.

Given this, I've thought of a few reasons why it might be good for us to move our various source control, wiki and issue tracking solutions into one (professional quality...) stack, since it'll cost us nothing:
  • There is a new major release of SMF (the forum software we use) coming up, which is almost guaranteed to break the Project Tools mod we use for issue tracking. I am a JIRA administrator in my day job, and I think it would be a very good alternative.  It would also allow give us tools to plan, which is something we currently lack. We could also offer these services to people for game development purposes.
  • Bitbucket can import GitHub repos with only a few clicks, including the full history.  It also integrates with JIRA, allowing you to tag commits with the issue that's being addressed (whether it's a bug fix or a feature request / story).  The learning curve would be very small for current users of the AGS GitHub repos.
  • The AGS Wiki is pretty poorly maintained atm.  It could be if we move that over to Confluence things'll improve.  It certainly won't get any worse!

I've signed up for a trial of JIRA, with an example issue here.  This issue shows how it integrates with the AGS Bitbucket trial, where I've committed a 'fix' to a reported issue.  To gain access, all anyone will need to do is create a free Atlassian account.  We can of course limit the ability to push to the repos or administer the JIRA projects as required if we decide to go ahead; all Atlassian require is the software be publically accessible.

So what do we think?

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